The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

There are many reasons to NOT play Wentz when he recovers from his broken finger.  The 2nd Round pick we have to give up if he plays 70% of the snaps is still very real.  We also have seen Wentz now for 6 games, and he's just as inaccurate and immobile as he was hyped up to be by the media and the Eagles/Colts fans who warned us ahead of time.  I fully believe that we lose the game this past Sunday with Wentz at QB.  You can tell that the offense is thrilled to have somebody behind center who knows the offense, and can move around in the pocket when things break down.  If the team were smart, they would make Wentz inactive when he comes back from his injury.  There's no need to go back to him, and have him mess up the chemistry of the offense, and potentially mess up our draft position in the offseason.

 

If we win this coming Sunday, we're 4-4 with half the season left.  If we split the Vikings and Eagles games, then Wentz will become an afterthought since Heinicke is doing his job, and giving us wins that would've been losses under Wentz.

 

Chemistry?  You mean like the first half of the Packers game or after the end of the win streak we went on last year?

 

Need to make sure Wentz isn't the answer, I'm not convinced and I'm concerned his replacement isn't on the roster so we have to be sure.

 

So tired about hearing about trying to save this draft pick, if he is good enough to hold the fort until we draft his replacement then he needs as much playing time in the offense as possible.  His replacement won't be in the 2nd or 3rd round.

[samy316]

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Chemistry?  You mean like the first half of the Packers game or after the end of the win streak we went on last year?

 

Need to make sure Wentz isn't the answer, I'm not convinced and I'm concerned his replacement isn't on the roster so we have to be sure.

 

So tired about hearing about trying to save this draft pick, if he is good enough to hold the fort until we draft his replacement then he needs as much playing time in the offense as possible.  His replacement won't be in the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

Why in the world would we want to pay $28+ million to a QB next year that we KNOW isn't getting any better, and still has all of his negative traits (inaccuracy + immobility)?.  I don't want to light money on fire next year for no reason, AND to lose our 2nd Round Pick.  Wentz is going to be eating up $26 million of our cap if we bring him back for 2023.   2nd Round Picks can be very vital, especially for a team like ours who doesn't do a good enough job with obtaining and holding onto draft capital.  That 2nd Round pick could go towards shoring up our depleted O-Line, or getting a talented LB OR as a package for a potential rookie QB if we like decide to move in that direction.

 

Quite frankly, we need that cap space to pursue talent to make sure we have a team that can be competitive for a rookie QB.  I'm predicting that we do draft QB in the 1st round regardless of where we pick this coming draft.  It literally makes no sense to pay a mediocre at best QB nearly $30 Million, when we could be paying a rookie QB much less, AND repairing our holes at OL and LB with the additional cap space.  Wentz had his chance early on to prove that he could get over his negative traits and possible play here through 2024.  So far, he's proven that he's NOT worth bringing back, and crippling our cap space.

Edited October 27, 2022 by samy316

[Koolblue13]

Just now, samy316 said:

 

Why in the world would we want to pay $28+ million to a QB next year that we KNOW isn't getting any better, and still has all of his negative traits (inaccuracy + immobility).  I don't want to light $28 Million on fire next year for no reason, AND to lose our 2nd Round Pick.  2nd Round Picks can be very vital, especially for a team like ours who doesn't do a good enough job with obtaining and holding onto draft capital.  That 2nd Round pick could go towards shoring up our depleted O-Line, or getting a talented LB OR as a package for a potential rookie QB if we like decide to move in that direction.

 

Quite frankly, we need that cap space to pursue talent to make sure we have a team that can be competitive for a rookie QB.  I'm predicting that we do draft QB in the 1st round regardless of where we pick this coming draft.  It literally makes no sense to pay a mediocre at best QB nearly $30 Million, when we could be paying a rookie QB much less, AND repairing our holes at OL and LB with the additional cap space.

You don't pay hi that much. You give him a new contract to create cap and invest in your Oline, since everything else seems to work.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

Why in the world would we want to pay $28+ million to a QB next year that we KNOW isn't getting any better, and still has all of his negative traits (inaccuracy + immobility)?.  .

 

I've already suggested restructuring, that's where I'm at with that.  Isn't all the garunteed money already taken care of by the Colts, what QB contract for a veteran we going to get that from elsewhere?  It's the perfect contract we can get out of at anytime. Jus not yet.

[samy316]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You don't pay hi that much. You give him a new contract to create cap and invest in your Oline, since everything else seems to work.

 

I would tell Wentz to kick rocks.  He's a guy that should NOT be in our future plans what so ever.  This team should just cut bait, and draft a QB for God's sake.  If all else fails, look at what Philly is doing.  They have a team ready to win now, with a young QB that they aren't paying much for yet.  THAT's the way to win in the NFL.

Edited October 27, 2022 by samy316

[wit33]

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree and kind of made the same point. If you think we are going to make a legit run this year, that's fine. 

 

If you are not going to make a run this year and those guys are not in your long term plans, get capital for them.

 

With the D line dominating as they have, there must be some consideration to resign Sweat and Payne and rid selves of the Wentz contract. Poof, you can now easily pay the Dline. Not to mention, the ability to get out of contracts of Fuller and Jackson (some dead money). 
 

Playing hypotheticals here, thoughts on Sweat retaining Sweat for 5 years and receiving a comp 3rd pick or trading for a second round pick and having him for 4, which has more value? 
 

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Chemistry?  You mean like the first half of the Packers game or after the end of the win streak we went on last year?

 

Need to make sure Wentz isn't the answer, I'm not convinced and I'm concerned his replacement isn't on the roster so we have to be sure.

 

So tired about hearing about trying to save this draft pick, if he is good enough to hold the fort until we draft his replacement then he needs as much playing time in the offense as possible.  His replacement won't be in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I can see your point to retain Wentz, but only at a severely reduced cost, playing at $10mil next season with some escalators based on performance not starts. It’s absolute doomsday if you continue to pay a QB of his caliber 10-14% of the cap. A competitive disadvantage. 
 

The dude is a pocket QB these days and it goes directly against his football inclinations and hardwiring. He was a backyard football player starting from his days in college and early in his career. He no longer has that super power and is below average in the pocket.

 

The QB situation is actually when I’m okay with an owner/front office stepping in. Coaches become to emotionally attached to mediocre guys they feel can do just a good enough job to salvage their jobs and millions. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

I would tell Wentz to kick rocks.  He's a guy that should NOT be in our future plans what so ever.  This team should just cut bait, and draft a QB for God's sake.  If all else fails, look at what Philly is doing.  They have a team ready to win now, with a young QB that they aren't paying much for yet.  THAT's the way to win in the NFL.

Agreed and having Wentz doesn't stop you from drafting a QB, does it? 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was listening to Pete Hailey who is around the team in camp-practices.  His take is the coaches aren't really taken with Heinicke as any solution but they do especially like the person-intangibles.  As for the players, they like Heinicke as a dude a lot.  It's not that they don't like Wentz but Heinicke is much more social and talks to everyone in the locker room.

 

If I have a lesson in all of this it refers to the article I posted yesterday that in today's league, mobility is king.  Howell has some mobility so I'd be interested in seeing him.  If not this draft has its share of QBs who can move.  It's not like Hurts killed it in college but he had good mobility.

 

The reason IMO why Wentz isn't hot anymore is he's pretty stiff, he's not like Joe Flacco level stiff but he's closer to that brand than he is name that mobile QB.   And as I mentioned the Lions defenders flat out said Wentz is a statue in the pocket and he was much easier to defend than Hurts. 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're 1/2 a game out of the playoffs with half the teams in the NFC. we have clear weaknesses and not going anywhere. We're also firmly 4rth in the East.

 

If Sweat and Payne aren't long term players, trade them now. Get anything you can for WJIII.

I tend to agree with you here, but at the same time, I can see why Rivera doesn’t feel this way… or maybe more accurately, can’t act like he feels this way.  And frankly, if you take a somewhat optimistic view of the team as it stands now, I can see where he’d be coming from.  

 

Even setting aside the reasons that RR might not wanna write off the season - culture, fanbase, rebranding, job security, him selling the team as being “close” (or however he classified it), etc - there’s still some hope.  He could look at the good things the defense is doing (not to mention Chase returning), point to the more dynamic ground game, the added weapons (Dotson, Thomas and Sweitzer should return at some point soon), Taylor looking a bit sharper (in TC, preseason, and 2nd half of the game…) and think maybe we can legitimately challenge for a WC spot.  And then of course, he may think that Wentz might be able to make a difference when he returns.

 

Of course, it’s easy (and probably more realistic) to take the more cynical view of the team - the qb and pass pro issues, the fact the defense has had a very favorable schedule, etc - and think the season is essentially over.  Wonder if a “true” GM might take this view and therefore the steps you mention… as well as getting Howell in there ASAP.

 

@FootballZombie I agree with your premise, but the flip side is that I’m not sure if Wentz could operate as a game manager.  In other words, Wentz is clearly a better fit for what Turner wants to do, but I’m not sure he’s a better fit for what Turner has been forced to do.  Some of that is due to Heinicke being behind center of course, but the oline’s ability in the ground game, vs their liability in pass pro has to be a major factor as well.  A semi-side note to that… our defense has seemingly struggled more over the past 2 years when our offense has been pass happy.

 

@Renegade7I hear ya.  With TH behind center, I’ll always be waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I think the Eagles game is gonna be super ugly, maybe the Vikings game as well. With that said, I’m just gonna try to keep my expectations in check - appreciate the good and shrug off the bad (not in terms of evaluation, but in terms of getting what little enjoyment I can out what appears to be another “lost” season).

I disagree that Wentz has the most upside though, I think that’s Howell 100%.  I do think it’s totally fair to think we have a better chance at reaching Wentz’s upside than Howell’s though.

 

 

[wit33]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Agreed and having Wentz doesn't stop you from drafting a QB, does it? 

Even more than a guy, it’s money allocated to the position that drives decisions in the front office. That’s why I continue to be an advocate of remaining lean at the QB spot until you find the one. Teams must become cutthroat with these average to mediocre QBs in terms of compensation. 
 

Money shouldn’t dictate any future ideas/moves at the QB. Too often teams hamstring themselves financially which prevents continued hunting for the next great QB. And remember, the great QB doesn’t have to be Hall of Fame level of play like Mahomes or Allen, it can be Hurts or Jackson on rookie deals. These guys represent examples why I love the floor of a dual threat QB on a rookie deal. NFL has it backwards with these guys when they say their floor is lower than other more polished pocket less athletic QBs. Rant over lol

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree and kind of made the same point. If you think we are going to make a legit run this year, that's fine. 

 

If you are not going to make a run this year and those guys are not in your long term plans, get capital for them.

 

Agree.  And sadly under Dan this isn't how this team rolls, getting compensation for players isn't what they have majored in.  Insane that the highest pick they ever got for a player under Dan is a 3rd for Trent.   And just as on brand they likely could have gotten a 2nd and 3rd and even a first for Trent, but they didn't seize the day when the iron is hot -- they never do. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  And sadly under Dan this isn't how this team rolls, getting compensation for players isn't what they have majored in.  Insane that the highest pick they ever got for a player under Dan is a 3rd for Trent.   And just as on brand they likely could have gotten a 2nd and 3rd and even a first for Trent, but they didn't seize the day when the iron is hot -- they never do. 

Yeah, our FO has been just awful in this regard. We seem to have gotten worse in FA, too. We have drafted better this year.

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Even more than a guy, it’s money allocated to the position that drives decisions in the front office. That’s why I continue to be an advocate of remaining lean at the QB spot until you find the one. Teams must become cutthroat with these average to mediocre QBs in terms of compensation. 
 

Money shouldn’t dictate any future ideas/moves at the QB. Too often teams hamstring themselves financially which prevents continued hunting for the next great QB. And remember, the great QB doesn’t have to be Hall of Fame level of play like Mahomes or Allen, it can be Hurts or Jackson on rookie deals. These guys represent examples why I love the floor of a dual threat QB on a rookie deal. NFL has it backwards with these guys when they say their floor is lower than other more polished pocket less athletic QBs. Rant over lol

You can resign Wentz and push his contract down the line and draft a QB in the 1rst round. That gives you a decent investment at the position. 

 

Some people want to dump Wentz asap, which I doubt Ron will do. 

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I tend to agree with you here, but at the same time, I can see why Rivera doesn’t feel this way… or maybe more accurately, can’t act like he feels this way.  And frankly, if you take a somewhat optimistic view of the team as it stands now, I can see where he’d be coming from.  

 

Even setting aside the reasons that RR might not wanna write off the season - culture, fanbase, rebranding, job security, him selling the team as being “close” (or however he classified it), etc - there’s still some hope.  He could look at the good things the defense is doing (not to mention Chase returning), point to the more dynamic ground game, the added weapons (Dotson, Thomas and Sweitzer should return at some point soon), Taylor looking a bit sharper (in TC, preseason, and 2nd half of the game…) and think maybe we can legitimately challenge for a WC spot.  And then of course, he may think that Wentz might be able to make a difference when he returns.

 

Of course, it’s easy (and probably more realistic) to take the more cynical view of the team - the qb and pass pro issues, the fact the defense has had a very favorable schedule, etc - and think the season is essentially over.  Wonder if a “true” GM might take this view and therefore the steps you mention… as well as getting Howell in there ASAP.

 

@FootballZombie I agree with your premise, but the flip side is that I’m not sure if Wentz could operate as a game manager.  In other words, Wentz is clearly a better fit for what Turner wants to do, but I’m not sure he’s a better fit for what Turner has been forced to do.  Some of that is due to Heinicke being behind center of course, but the oline’s ability in the ground game, vs their liability in pass pro has to be a major factor as well.  A semi-side note to that… our defense has seemingly struggled more over the past 2 years when our offense has been pass happy.

 

@Renegade7I hear ya.  With TH behind center, I’ll always be waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I think the Eagles game is gonna be super ugly, maybe the Vikings game as well. With that said, I’m just gonna try to keep my expectations in check - appreciate the good and shrug off the bad (not in terms of evaluation, but in terms of getting what little enjoyment I can out what appears to be another “lost” season).

I disagree that Wentz has the most upside though, I think that’s Howell 100%.  I do think it’s totally fair to think we have a better chance at reaching Wentz’s upside than Howell’s though.

 

 

It's possible that RonCo could turn this season around and become a contender. I'll bet all $34 in my savings account they won't though.

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  And sadly under Dan this isn't how this team rolls, getting compensation for players isn't what they have majored in.  Insane that the highest pick they ever got for a player under Dan is a 3rd for Trent.   And just as on brand they likely could have gotten a 2nd and 3rd and even a first for Trent, but they didn't seize the day when the iron is hot -- they never do. 

 

Bruce being vindictive and egotistical was the issue. He even let Kirk walk too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, our FO has been just awful in this regard. We seem to have gotten worse in FA, too. We have drafted better this year.

 

Overall IMO they have drafted well.   Kiper likes to say if you can land 2-3 starters out of a draft, its a really good draft.  Based on those metrics, they've done more than fine.

 

They did really good in FA in year 1.  Year 2, below average IMO because the Jackson signing is a flop.  This year they basically took a pass and didn't engage in FA at all.

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Bruce being vindictive and egotistical was the issue. He even let Kirk walk too. 

 

Definitely part of it.  But the FO culture under Dan, regardless of who is in charge has been the future is now.  They are buyers not sellers typically.   I can't think of a trade under Dan where they gave up draft picks that they won. 

 

lol, if the Eagles had Kirk for example, can you imagine them turning down the first rounder and change that was offered according to Mike Jones, Jay Gruden, etc?  Heck we got a 3rd round comp pick for Kirk and the Eagles get a first rounder for Bradford.  That sums up both FOs IMO.

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Overall IMO they have drafted well.   Kiper likes to say if you can land 2-3 starters out of a draft, its a really good draft.  Based on those metrics, they've done more than fine.

 

They did really good in FA in year 1.  Year 2, below average IMO because the Jackson signing is a flop.  This year they basically took a pass and didn't engage in FA at all.

 

Definitely part of it.  But the FO culture under Dan, regardless of who is in charge has been the future is now.  They are buyers not sellers typically.   I can't think of a trade under Dan where they gave up draft picks that they won. 

 

lol, if the Eagles had Kirk for example, can you imagine them turning down the first rounder and change that was offered according to Mike Jones, Jay Gruden, etc?  Heck we got a 3rd round comp pick for Kirk and the Eagles get a first rounder for Bradford.  That sums up both FOs IMO.

The Eagles turned Wentz into AJ Brown, Davis and even more. Can't imagine what they'd have done with Cousins. Hell, they might be about to trade the Saints second rounder next year for Kamara.    Ever since Howie picked Raergor instead of Jefferson, he hasn't missed once.

[skinny21]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Agreed and having Wentz doesn't stop you from drafting a QB, does it? 

Short answer, no.  Longer answer - losing the 2nd round pick (potentially affecting our ability to trade up), and not having the additional cap space to either pay Payne, or shore up the oline (or both) could affect said rookie qb’s supporting cast and therefore trajectory of development.  Assuming you mean in conjunction with significantly reducing Wentz’s pay… probably not a huge impact.

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was listening to Pete Hailey who is around the team in camp-practices.  His take is the coaches aren't really taken with Heinicke as any solution but they do especially like the person-intangibles.  As for the players, they like Heinicke as a dude a lot.  It's not that they don't like Wentz but Heinicke is much more social and talks to everyone in the locker room.

 

If I have a lesson in all of this it refers to the article I posted yesterday that in today's league, mobility is king.  Howell has some mobility so I'd be interested in seeing him.  If not this draft has its share of QBs who can move.  It's not like Hurts killed it in college but he had good mobility.

 

The reason IMO why Wentz isn't hot anymore is he's pretty stiff, he's not like Joe Flacco level stiff but he's closer to that brand than he is name that mobile QB.   And as I mentioned the Lions defenders flat out said Wentz is a statue in the pocket and he was much easier to defend than Hurts. 

 

 

 

Yikes, that’s a pretty awful stat.  I mean, there’s the silver lining that Hailey is referencing, but that’s a problem.  I do wonder how much of an effect the ball control/run heavy O has on that stat - whether it’s run, run, pass, or running on 2nd down - are we facing more 3rd downs, or more obvious passing downs?  On the flip side, I’d assume we’re likely to face fewer 3rd and 10s…

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Short answer, no.  Longer answer - losing the 2nd round pick (potentially affecting our ability to trade up), and not having the additional cap space to either pay Payne, or shore up the oline (or both) could affect said rookie qb’s supporting cast and therefore trajectory of development.  Assuming you mean in conjunction with significantly reducing Wentz’s pay… probably not a huge impact.

Yikes, that’s a pretty awful stat.  I mean, there’s the silver lining that Hailey is referencing, but that’s a problem.  I do wonder how much of an effect the ball control/run heavy O has on that stat - whether it’s run, run, pass, or running on 2nd down - are we facing more 3rd downs, or more obvious passing downs?  On the flip side, I’d assume we’re likely to face fewer 3rd and 10s…

Wentz is not getting some insane top 10 QB contract and should have borderline starter money that can be kicked off next season.

 

Wentz is not going to have the current contract next season, regardless of what roster he is or isn't on.

 

That second round pick as opposed to a third isn't going to be the deal breaker to move up. It's generally 2 firsts if we even do. 

[Koolblue13]

And another thing, if anyone of you actually do believe that this season is worth salvaging, why not make some moves to fix the holes? Gotta be some IOL that could be had. 

 

Beef up the middle of the line, get the offense rolling, should work right?

[UKskins]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

Wentz has the most upside talent wise of the current QBs on the roster and that contract can be restructured versus keeping as is now.

 

Howell isn't the answer, otherwise he wouldn't of been that low in the draft, don't get my hopes up.

 

It's really hard for me to jus right off Wentz after how poorly the team as whole was playing up until recently. Too many situations he jus didn't stand a chance and it limited his ability to make plays to make up for his inconsistencies we knew about going in.

 

They traded for him for a reason, not only his upside, but because they are too deep in from a years perspective to risk losing games developing a young or even rookie QB. 

 

They aren't drafting one in 2023 and risking missing the playoffs because of it, so if it isn't Wentz, how much support will there be to trade for someone else?  Who can they sign off the street that won't cause further vitriol from the fan base if it isn't Wentz?  Jimmy G? Another mediocre QB that will take too much of our cap and not actually be the answer at QB?

 

Wentz has to prove he's not the answer after IR now that team is playing better.  It's not abnormal for QBs to go through growing pains their first year in a new system especially when their OC sucks.

 

The team is playing better because Wentz isn't the QB. The O-line looks better because they're playing in front of a QB with wheels instead of a statue. The WR looks better because Heinicke is actually throwing the ball at them instead of staring them down and eating sacks. The Defense looks better because Heinicke could sustain some drives and convert 3rd downs and keep them off the field for more than 12 seconds.

 

Wentz is not the answer, or even close to it. He is how many years out from a decent season? I wanted it to work, I wanted to give him a shot, but he's not just been bad, he's been horrific and we're just wasting our time with him. I'd rather roll with Heinicke and use the savings to bolster the roster rather than have another year of Wentz. We ain't winning with either of them, but at least Heinicke doesn't cost 10's of millions for back up level play. Even take the contract out, Wentz doesn't have anything left in the tank, Heinicke understands the system, Wentz doesn't, Heinicke can throw a ball in under 18 seconds whilst Wentz apparently can't.

 

The reason they traded for him is simple. Incompetence at every level of the FO. That's it. There is no upside. He has a cannon arm but can't do anything with it because he has no vision, no mobility and no pocket awareness. He can throw moon balls all he wants, but at this point he might as well be Uncle Rico throwing balls in his back yard because he can't do it with an NFL pass rush in his face.

Edited October 27, 2022 by UKskins

[Est.1974]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I have a lesson in all of this it refers to the article I posted yesterday that in today's league, mobility is king. 

This is exactly where I am, I really liked the Wentz trade. I’ll admit to being pretty much all in on Wentz. Turns out he’s a complete statue in the backfield. Lack of mobility a complete killer.

 

Howell needs games reps.

 

I think we make a move in the 2023 draft for a QB who fits the modern NFL standard for success.

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

The team is playing better because Wentz isn't the QB.

 

Right...defense has been steadily improving through out the year, benching WJ3 before Wentz got hurt.  We also ran for 128 yards against the Bears with Wentz at QB.

 

Saying the team only got better because of a QB change is actually taking away credit from the rest of the team, while also attempting to fill a narrative that sounds good but isn't 100% true.

[Est.1974]

I’m by no means in the camp that Heinicke is the answer, however I would strongly consider giving him a contact extension. Yep seriously I would. Heinicke and Howell under contract, opens the offseason up a bit more.

18 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Wentz is not the answer, or even close to it. He is how many years out from a decent season? I wanted it to work, I wanted to give him a shot, but he's not just been bad, he's been horrific

I personally think that’s jumping on his back too much, Wentz has ability. Plenty of it. Not sure we look a great fit. Our crap OL doesn’t help his skill set. That said, he isn’t getting nearly 30mil per year. And yes, he has been poor. We will need to move on. He will probably retire in 2023 IMO.

[zCommander]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Right...defense has been steadily improving through out the year, benching WJ3 before Wentz got hurt.  We also ran for 128 yards against the Bears with Wentz at QB.

 

Saying the team only got better because of a QB change is actually taking away credit from the rest of the team, while also attempting to fill a narrative that sounds good but isn't 100% true.

 

I hope you are not ignoring 3rd down conversions rate that went up when TH came in. This also keeps our D off the field and rested as well which in turn improves them.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by zCommander

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

If Wentz's issues were new or he was a rookie or even 2nd or 3rd yr player, I might agree with you. But his issues here are exactly what his issues have been his entire career at both Philly and then at the Colts. I do not want a restructured contract even if Carson would take one. And do you really want a guy you just you are not worth your contract leading tyour team 

 

When's the last time we had someone starting at QB with a large contract worth their contract?  That isn't the direction the NFL is going anyway, i jus want to win, no qualms on benching people no matter how much they make (see WJ3).

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

And I wish people would stop saying categorically "Howell is not the answer" when you do not know. I agree it's unlikely but to just decide he is not the answer because of his draft position makes no sense. I agree, it's unlikely he is a legit QB1. But why write him off without even giving him snaps? And what better time than right now to give him snaps? 

 

They wouldn't even give him snaps against anybody except scrubs in August.  It would be literally throwing games to put him out there, jus because we haven't seen what he can do doesn't mean the folks paid millions don't already know something we don't. It's reaonable logic, not an assumption.

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

As for 2023, your sarcasm in terms of the staff is simply you venting on the staff. And fair enough, it may be what they do. But we are talking about what should be done. And what should be done is kick Carson Wentz to the ****ing curb!! I would then like to see them play Howell. I mean they did draft him so if are not going to ever let him play - and what better time than now - then why draft him at all? 

 

They drafted Howell to replace Taylor, not start for us as a future QB (that'd be icing on the cake, out this world unexpected best case scenario).

 

Maybe I'm so jaded that I've been forced to make debate points from what their options are in their head, not actual reality.  Because what they should do I've lost patience on them doing a while ago, it's been 20 years, man, they won't do what they should do, they jus dont.

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

I was supportive of giving Carson a try once the trade was made and seeing if he could overcome his issues. But he cannot. Again, his issues are EXACTLY what his issues have been since his first day back from injury several yrs ago. I could go throguh them but we all know what they are. He had a nice game 1 agaisnt Jacksonville. Since then it's mostly ****. A lackluster win agaisnt a really bad Chicago team is not exactly awe inspiring. 

 

 

I'm not gonna pretend he will get back to MVP form anymore, that was wishful thinking.  But the team as a whole was playing so so bad, it's almost not fair to lump all that on Carson and not give him a chance to start now that they are playing to prove it wasn't jus him.  He's already here, he did win the job in August.

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

Play TH until he starts struggling. I think that will be by gm 3 or 4 but who knows. If he does struggle, or even if he is playing well but the team is losing, give Howell a shot so you know what you need to do in the next draft. 

 

Again this is what I think they SHOULD do, not what I think they will do. 

 

 

He struggled almost immediately against the Packers and still barely got out of that game alive. At one point I watched have absolutely no feel for someone coming behind him, got smacked, and fumbled the ball.  There was a penalty and we got the ball back, but he hasn't changed a bit from last year.

 

The right thing to do is to draft a 1st round QB, but they've backed themselves into a corner to have to win now.  Only way we get that is in another clean house.

 

I'm so blown on what they should do but will do over the last 20 years, forgive me.

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I hope you are not ignoring 3rd down conversions rate that went up when TH came in. This also keeps our D off the field and rested as well which in turn improves them.

 

 

I'm not, and are you talking first half against the Packers or that rate as an average for that game?