2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, Conn said:

There is no scenario where Samuel is getting anywhere close to 30% of RB touches or snaps, so your numbers are super off. He MIGHT get 1-2 carries and end-arounds per game, and line up there further in some obvious passing situations. But those numbers are way off, even if you could guarantee his health. 

I think he gets more than that if healthy.  But less than 30%.  I think I could easily see him getting a carry or two, even up the middle, (he did this in Carolina) per quarter.  That's somewhere around 6-8 carries a game when you add it up.  Is that 30% of carries? absolutely not.  But it's also not entirely trivial.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

TBD on Drake London for me. If he runs a 4.6 I'm lowering on him. But I would be fine with him at 11 if he tests well and he's one of the only ones. Value for Lloyd isnt there for me. He's 24y/o and closer to his ceiling vs. a guy like Chenal who'd be available later. Him or Muma/Andersen would be better value for not much difference in impact. Lloyd isn't Parsons.

 

I could be talked into Hamilton maybe. And Davis isn't a realistic option for us.

 

We're a better team with 4-5 players in rounds 1-3 this year than we would be with any of the options at 11 other than maybe Hamilton or London. 

 

All of the above is why I'm so keen on trading back.

Again, I disagree with you.

 

Filling large hole with band-aids with holes in the middle of them isn't filling holes. And superstars hide holes elsewhere.

[Voice_of_Reason]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I disagree.

 

London, Wilson, Lloyd, Hamilton, heck even Jordan Davis have superstar potential. 

 

Zero chance I pass on a star for drafting George Pickens. 

So where would you take Olvae?  

 

I really don't care as long as they get offensive weapons who they are.  I did hear some drafnik say they thought he was possibly the second WR off the board.  Others have said otherwise. I literally have no idea.

[Forever A Redskin]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Again, I disagree with you.

 

Filling large hole with band-aids with holes in the middle of them isn't filling holes. And superstars hide holes elsewhere.

 

How do you propose we fix our holes at WR2, MLB, Buffalo,RB, TE, and OL?

 

Or are you fine going into the season with thin position groups one injury away from disaster?

 

One single player at 11 will make up for all those deficiencies?

 

Or are you banking on post draft cuts to fill all those holes?

 

We've had good success in middle rounds lately. I hate not having the draft capital to repeat that same success in one of the deepest draft classes in history due to covid.

 

Also, where do Wilson, London and Olave rank if they were in last year's draft?

[KDawg]

By the way...

 

2021 receiving leaders:

 

1. Cooper Kupp - 4.62

2. Justin Jefferson - 4.44

3. Davante Adams - 4.56

4. Ja'Marr Chase - 4.38

5. Deebo Samuels - 4.48

6. Mark Andrews (TE) - 4.83

7. Tyreek Hill - 4.29

8. Stefon Diggs - 4.46

9. Tyler Lockett - 4.33

10. Diontae Johnson - 4.53

 

Other notable 40s: 

Mike Williams: 4.53

Keenan Allen: 4.71

Michael Pittman: 4.52

Mike Evans: 4.53

 

We get too caught up in shorts. 

[Forever A Redskin]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

By the way...

 

2021 receiving leaders:

 

1. Cooper Kupp - 4.62

2. Justin Jefferson - 4.44

3. Davante Adams - 4.56

4. Ja'Marr Chase - 4.38

5. Deebo Samuels - 4.48

6. Mark Andrews (TE) - 4.83

7. Tyreek Hill - 4.29

8. Stefon Diggs - 4.46

9. Tyler Lockett - 4.33

10. Diontae Johnson - 4.53

 

Other notable 40s: 

Mike Williams: 4.53

Keenan Allen: 4.71

Michael Pittman: 4.52

Mike Evans: 4.53

 

We get too caught up in shorts. 

 

And where were all those receivers taken?

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

By the way...

 

2021 receiving leaders:

 

1. Cooper Kupp - 4.62

2. Justin Jefferson - 4.44

3. Davante Adams - 4.56

4. Ja'Marr Chase - 4.38

5. Deebo Samuels - 4.48

6. Mark Andrews (TE) - 4.83

7. Tyreek Hill - 4.29

8. Stefon Diggs - 4.46

9. Tyler Lockett - 4.33

10. Diontae Johnson - 4.53

 

Other notable 40s: 

Mike Williams: 4.53

Keenan Allen: 4.71

Michael Pittman: 4.52

Mike Evans: 4.53

 

We get too caught up in shorts. 

Didn't the Rams training staff re-educate Kupp on how to run?  He's supposedly much faster now because of that.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

How do you propose we fix our holes at WR2, MLB, Buffalo,RB, TE, and OL?

 

Or are you fine going into the season with thin position groups one injury away from disaster?

 

One single player at 11 will make up for all those deficiencies?

 

Or are you banking on post draft cuts to fill all those holes?

 

We've had good success in middle rounds lately. I hate not having the draft capital to repeat that same success in one of the deepest draft classes in history due to covid.

 

Also, where do Wilson, London and Olave rank if they were in last year's draft?

You don't.

 

WR2 = 1st pick.

 

No hole at ILB (We don't use a MIKE enough to draft a MLB).

 

Buffalo = Landon Collins or later in the draft

 

TE: I don't see a hole.

 

OL: I don't see a hole. 

 

Do you think drafting a name fills these "holes" that you think we have?

 

I'll tell you what, let's give Wentz back to Indy, take our draft picks back and roll with Heinicke.

 

I'll take Wentz minus two draft picks and work with what we can all day. 

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

And where were all those receivers taken?

You're a big boy. Look it up

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Again, I disagree with you.

 

Filling large hole with band-aids with holes in the middle of them isn't filling holes. And superstars hide holes elsewhere.

Maybe it's because I have a lot of faith that Martin/Marty/Ron can find random guys we've never heard of to fill depth spots (because they have shown that in the last 2 years) but I don't have a lot of concern with backup DL, backup Guard, backup safety.  

 

There is one starter completely missing from the team: MLB.  They have to find SOMEBODY to play that.  They also love to use that big nickel role, so they need somebody there also.  Though, I've heard some people say that COULD be Jamin Davis.  I'm not sure I really believe that.  But I think Keim might have mentioned it.  

 

They picked up RSJ somewhere along the way last year, and he was productive for what he was.  I think they might be able to do that again to get another TE who can play until Logan is back.

 

I have faith they can find a third string guard (assuming Schweitzer is the starting RG and Charles is the backup swing guard.)  

 

I have faith they can find a kick/punt returner somewhere.

 

I have faith they can find a backup/rotational DT.

 

Ben Standig is all bent out of shape because they haven't found all these guys yet.  I keep saying, we haven't had the draft and FA isn't over.  These are backups, they can be found.

 

The spot I'm concerned about is MLB, because they've shown they have no idea what the hell they are doing with that spot for 2 years.  So color me concerned there.   

 

But anyway, this is why I say, in the draft, especially early in the draft, go get the guy who can make the most difference wherever you pick.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Didn't the Rams training staff re-educate Kupp on how to run?  He's supposedly much faster now because of that.

Yup. Nothing says these other guys can't get faster if that's the case.

[oraphus]

48 minutes ago, Conn said:

There is no scenario where Samuel is getting anywhere close to 30% of RB touches or snaps, so your numbers are super off. He MIGHT get 1-2 carries and end-arounds per game, and line up there further in some obvious passing situations. But those numbers are way off, even if you could guarantee his health. 

I disagree.. he was brought in as hybrid rb/wr. (Mini Debo Samuels) he will most certainly be getting touches out of the backfield, whether its a pitch, handoff or a short pass. You dont pay a guy 10mil per year to get the ball 3-4 times a game.

[Forever A Redskin]

2021 Receiving Leaders by Draft Round.

 

Kupp - 3rd round

Adams - 2nd

Deebo - 2nd

Andrews - 3rd

Tyreek - 5th

Diggs - 5th

Lockett - 3rd 

Diontae - 3rd

 

Unless you think there is a Chase or Justin Jefferson in the 1st this year... Not sure why we would want to draft one so high....

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

How do you propose we fix our holes at WR2, MLB, Buffalo,RB, TE, and OL?

MLB is a good question.  

 

WR2 should be early in the draft.

 

The rest?  The answer is "somewhere."  Because backup TE, RB and Guards are always available.  Either in the later rounds in the draft or through FA, which isn't over yet. 

 

4 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Or are you fine going into the season with thin position groups one injury away from disaster?

After the draft, there is a secondary FA period.  Guys get cut, and guys get signed who are still looking for work.  I was looking through the list of still available FAs.  There are actually quite a few still banging around. 

 

It will be ok.  They will make moves after the draft to fill holes. 

 

4 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

One single player at 11 will make up for all those deficiencies?

We don't need more players, we need better players.  

 

4 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

Or are you banking on post draft cuts to fill all those holes?

They got their starting LT after the draft last year.  And starting FS (McCain) I believe.  

 

You get very good value after the draft on guys who can play, if you get high-impact guys IN the draft. 

 

4 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

We've had good success in middle rounds lately. I hate not having the draft capital to repeat that same success in one of the deepest draft classes in history due to covid.

Draft history really can only go back 2 years AT MOST when looking at it because all the decision makers prior to that are gone.  (Dan has NOTHING to do with mid-round picks.  Never has.  It's beneath him.)

 

Ron was in charge in 2020, but whatshisnugget ran the draft, then he moved to Atlanta.  Then Martin/Marty were here last year.  

 

So, last year's draft is really the only one with the same group of decision makers.

 

And FWIW (which is basically nothing) our second and 4th round picks have had a pretty high bust rate for the better part of a decade.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

By the way...

 

2021 receiving leaders:

 

1. Cooper Kupp - 4.62

2. Justin Jefferson - 4.44

3. Davante Adams - 4.56

4. Ja'Marr Chase - 4.38

5. Deebo Samuels - 4.48

6. Mark Andrews (TE) - 4.83

7. Tyreek Hill - 4.29

8. Stefon Diggs - 4.46

9. Tyler Lockett - 4.33

10. Diontae Johnson - 4.53

 

Other notable 40s: 

Mike Williams: 4.53

Keenan Allen: 4.71

Michael Pittman: 4.52

Mike Evans: 4.53

 

We get too caught up in shorts. 

 

 

Wow! That is an eye opener for sure.

 

Only true under 4.4 burners are Chase, Tyreek and T-Lock.

 

Kupp only running a 4.6 is mind boggling given his absolute domination of every db he faced last year.

 

 

 

 

[Forever A Redskin]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You don't.

 

WR2 = 1st pick.

 

No hole at ILB (We don't use a MIKE enough to draft a MLB).

 

Buffalo = Landon Collins or later in the draft

 

TE: I don't see a hole.

 

OL: I don't see a hole. 

 

Do you think drafting a name fills these "holes" that you think we have?

 

I'll tell you what, let's give Wentz back to Indy, take our draft picks back and roll with Heinicke.

 

I'll take Wentz minus two draft picks and work with what we can all day. 

You're a big boy. Look it up

 

1. You don't draft a WR2 at 11. Should be a guy with WR1 upside.

 

2. And yeah let's roll with Mayo at MLB again.

 

3. And how can you guarantee Collins will take a pay cut to come back?

 

4. TE: Logan won't be ready for the start of the year. You good starting Sammis Reyes?

 

OL: Gaping hole the minute we have anywhere near the same amount of injuries as last year. Also need competition for Wes at RG. Wes should ideally be a backup.

 

And no, I wouldn't roll with Heinicke. I'd trade down to recoup the lost picks given up in the Wentz trade and build around him.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

2021 Receiving Leaders by Draft Round.

 

Kupp - 3rd round

Adams - 2nd

Deebo - 2nd

Andrews - 3rd

Tyreek - 5th

Diggs - 5th

Lockett - 3rd 

Diontae - 3rd

 

Unless you think there is a Chase or Justin Jefferson in the 1st this year... Not sure why we would want to draft one so high....

I do. Drake London.

 

You forgot Mike Williams (#7), Mike Evans (#7) and of course you foot noted Chase and Jefferson.

 

There is certainly receiver talent to be had later. Not my argument, though. 

 

My argument is you don't pass on the potential of a superstar to plug holes with JAGS.

1 minute ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

1. You don't draft a WR2 at 11. Should be a guy with WR1 upside.

 

2. And yeah let's roll with Mayo at MLB again.

 

3. And how can you guarantee Collins will take a pay cut to come back?

 

4. TE: Logan won't be ready for the start of the year. You good starting Sammis Reyes?

 

OL: Gaping hole the minute we have anywhere near the same amount of injuries as last year. Also need competition for Wes at RG. Wes should ideally be a backup.

 

And no, I wouldn't roll with Heinicke. I'd trade down to recoup the lost picks given up in the Wentz trade and build around him.

 

I didn't say you draft a WR2 at 11. I said you draft a guy to fill that hole.

 

Unless you think McLaurin and London would both be WR1, one is WR2 by default.

 

I'm fine with Mayo at MIKE. We don't use the position enough. Just not Bostic.

 

You can't. But Curl can play there, too. I'm not worried about the D. Too many resources have been used there. Time for our "high end" guys to step up.

 

TE I'm good with starting John Bates.

 

Every team has a hole on OL the second they have 5 injuries.

[Forever A Redskin]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I do. Drake London.

 

You forgot Mike Williams (#7), Mike Evans (#7) and of course you foot noted Chase and Jefferson.

 

There is certainly receiver talent to be had later. Not my argument, though. 

 

My argument is you don't pass on the potential of a superstar to plug holes with JAGS.

 

And you're assuming the 2nd/3rd round talent this year are JAGS why exactly?

 

Many say this is the deepest draft in perhaps NFL history due to covid. Just isn't a a good year to be missing picks IMO

[Mrshadow008]

21 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Yes, we can. Because 1) it may not be the team's choice. 2) It's us. If your point is the team needs to do as much as it can to keep him, I agree. Without paying him a ridiculous contract. He shouldn't be paid more than Diggs or Adams. But if he went a touch above I could see us doing that. Well above and he is as good as gone.

 

 

Im not asking to be smart I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Why do you think Ron and co are going to low ball Terry so to speak? Out of the two big name guys that have come up for extension Allen and Scherff they are 1 of 2. And in the case of Scherff they made him a market value offer he just didnt take it because he didnt wanna be here. I get the point on maybe Terry doesnt wanna be here but I dont think it will be because we dont offer him market value if it comes to that.

[KDawg]

Just now, Forever A Redskin said:

 

And you're assuming the 2nd/3rd round talent this year are JAGS why exactly?

 

Many say this is the deepest draft in perhaps NFL history due to covid. Just isn't a a good year to be missing picks IMO

 

I don't. I simply don't know. I like Calvin Austin III, for example. But I'm not passing on a superstar to MAYBE draft him in the second.

 

I want our 2 to be for a guy like Kenneth Walker.

 

Just now, Mrshadow008 said:

Im not asking to be smart I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Why do you think Ron and co are going to low ball Terry so to speak? Out of the two big name guys that have come up for extension Allen and Scherff they are 1 of 2. And in the case of Scherff they made him a market value offer he just didnt take it because he didnt wanna be here. I get the point on maybe Terry doesnt wanna be here but I dont think it will be because we dont offer him market value if it comes to that.

 

I don't. I just said it's a possibility. Everything is on the table for that situation right now. 

[Conn]

15 minutes ago, oraphus said:

I disagree.. he was brought in as hybrid rb/wr. (Mini Debo Samuels) he will most certainly be getting touches out of the backfield, whether its a pitch, handoff or a short pass. You dont pay a guy 10mil per year to get the ball 3-4 times a game.

You aren’t arguing against what I said. What I said was expecting Samuel to get 30% of RB touches is extremely unrealistic. There’s a lot of room between “getting the ball 3-4 times a game” (which is low, his total snaps would include WR work, where he’ll get the vast majority of his reps) and “30% of RB work”. That’s just not realistic. He’s mainly a WR, who will get some touches from the RB spot. Less than 10% of the total RB touches though, easily. 

[Forever A Redskin]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I want our 2 to be for a guy like Kenneth Walker.

 

Me too. I just also want an extra 2nd rounder and want a 3rd round pick back so we can address other needs too. Love Walker.

[CommDownMan]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't. I simply don't know. I like Calvin Austin III, for example. But I'm not passing on a superstar to MAYBE draft him in the second.

 

I want our 2 to be for a guy like Kenneth Walker.

 

 

I don't. I just said it's a possibility. Everything is on the table for that situation right now. 

 

 

If we draft a non-Superstar at 11 (you mention Olave) and then trade future picks to fill holes I'll be pissed.  Not having a 5th this year because we wanted a long snapper is silly.  I'd rather trade back and get future picks and then be in a position to not feel the need to trade back. 

 

The tough part of me is the talk of many of these WR, it seems clear no Ja'Marr Chase guy is there and there are still 5 guys in top ~20?  Feels all too similar to talking QBs up because it fits a need.  Getting WR3/4 at 11, vs getting FS3, RB1 in trade back doesn't seem like a loss in super star power.  If the team goes Lloyd, Hamilton or Davis it's another year without offense focus.  I'm good with defense, but I just don't see offense at 11 (maybe OT, but I'd be curious how much that transforms this offense).

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CommDownMan said:

 

 

If we draft a non-Superstar at 11 (you mention Olave) and then trade future picks to fill holes I'll be pissed.  Not having a 5th this year because we wanted a long snapper is silly.  I'd rather trade back and get future picks and then be in a position to not feel the need to trade back. 

 

The tough part of me is the talk of many of these WR, it seems clear no Ja'Marr Chase guy is there and there are still 5 guys in top ~20?  Feels all too similar to talking QBs up because it fits a need.  Getting WR3/4 at 11, vs getting FS3, RB1 in trade back doesn't seem like a loss in super star power.  If the team goes Lloyd, Hamilton or Davis it's another year without offense focus.  I'm good with defense, but I just don't see offense at 11 (maybe OT, but I'd be curious how much that transforms this offense).

 

 

When did I mention Olave at 11?

 

I swear I'm living in the Twilight Zone.

5 minutes ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Me too. I just also want an extra 2nd rounder and want a 3rd round pick back so we can address other needs too. Love Walker.

EVery year people come up with wild trade scenarios where we get all of this high end talent that happens to fall to us and every other team passes.

 

In reality every year we either don't trade back or have the option to pick those guy sand we take some other random person that a lot of us are confused by. And that's what it's like for many, many teams.

 

It never works out the way you think it will when you fantasize. 

[Forever A Redskin]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

When did I mention Olave at 11?

 

I swear I'm living in the Twilight Zone.

EVery year people come up with wild trade scenarios where we get all of this high end talent that happens to fall to us and every other team passes.

 

In reality every year we either don't trade back or have the option to pick those guy sand we take some other random person that a lot of us are confused by. And that's what it's like for many, many teams.

 

It never works out the way you think it will when you fantasize. 

Like I said I normally would agree with you but I genuinely believe the depth of this draft is special.

[RWJ]

32 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Im not asking to be smart I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Why do you think Ron and co are going to low ball Terry so to speak? Out of the two big name guys that have come up for extension Allen and Scherff they are 1 of 2. And in the case of Scherff they made him a market value offer he just didnt take it because he didnt wanna be here. I get the point on maybe Terry doesnt wanna be here but I dont think it will be because we dont offer him market value if it comes to that.

Terry got his buddy Samuel here and is screaming in RR's ear to draft Olave.  I think that happens and so do a lot of respected draft gurus.  Terry stays.  He's the best player on the team and even the likes of Mayhew and Hurney who are wanna be GMs, IMO know that, so he gets paid and reunites with his buddies from Ohio St.  I only see a move at #14 before Philly picks to acquire a 3rd rounder otherwise, I think we may trade down but not to far and get a further down 2nd and 3rd and get our ILB we desperately need, IMO and then RB/FS in rounds 3/4.