Battle lines drawn... where do you stand?!

[B&G]

Sad to say, there isn't a single shred of evidence to indicate this team would "get it done" next year.

Count me among those who sees bad times in our future until Spurrier is finally flushed down the toilet along with his Floridian coterie of a coaching staff.

Mind you, I hope I'm wrong.

[bubba9497]

2002 Strength of Schedule = #27 Washington

09/08 31-23 W ARI

09/16 7-37 L PHI :doh:

09/22 10-20 L at SF :doh:

10/06 31-14 W at TEN

10/13 27-43 L NO :doh:

10/20 9-30 L at GB :doh:

10/27 26-21 W IND

11/03 14-3 W at SEA

11/10 7-26 L at JAC :doh:

11/17 17-19 L at NYG <

11/24 20-17 W STL

11/28 20-27 L at DAL

12/08 21-27 L NYG <

12/15 21-34 L at PHI :doh:

12/22 26-10 W HOU

12/29 20-14 W DAL

2003 Strength of Schedule= 6 Washington (begin of season), current = 10. Washington (5-9) 0.0443

09/04 16-13 W NYJ

09/14 33-31 W at ATL

09/21 21-24 L NYG <

09/28 20-17 W NE

10/05 25-27 L at PHI <

10/12 13-35 L TB :doh:

10/19 7-24 L at BUF :doh:

11/02 14-21 L at DAL

11/09 27-20 W SEA

11/16 17-20 L at CAR <

11/23 23-24 L at MIA <

11/30 20-24 L NO <

12/07 20-7 W at NYG

12/14 0-27 L Dal:doh:

*:doh:= blow outs, "<" could have / should have won games

[RF4L]

If Spurrier is still here along with his asst. coaches, who he's on record as supporting, we'll be worse.

7-9 last year, 5-11 this year (most likely), followed by 3-13 next year (just extrapolating the curve).

The entire Redskins organization has no clue.:mad:

Sorry, but you asked.

[Sonny Joe Hog]

Spurrier is clueless.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Tarhog

Anyone who, based on current information, says 'we will get it done' is just a homer plain and simple.

There's a stark difference in praying and hoping beyond hope our misery will end and we finally find leadership, solid play, and the playoffs (I'm guilty) and BELIEVING we're turning the corner.

There's just no reality-based justification for that belief.

Color me skeptical sammy.

Thank you, Tarhog. I agree 100%. These are the same folks that said we would improve after last year, once Spurrier got his players. And we are actually WORSE this year, with a supposedly more talented, quicker, team.

Put me down for another 5-11 to 6-10 team. As long as Synder and Cerrato are running this team, they will suck. I don't care who the coach is.

[Mark28]

To add to the positive side of the discussion, we should have an easier schedule and that should give us a better chance next year. Don't laugh, if you look at most of the teams at the top of the draft board, they all had the hardest schedules. I know years ago that wasn't something to be proud of but nowadays it's true and an indicator as to whether we'll have a shot at getting in. Cudos to Bailey and Arrington on another pro bowl year(even if Bailey didn't deserve it).

[inmate running the asylum]

Originally posted by speedwagon20

I just think we have progressed this year based on how competitive we've been in almost all our games. That improvement from Year 1 to Year 2 for Spurrier shows me that we CAN improve next year.

Yeah, right. Detroit was 3-13 last year and lost 8 of 13 "close" games by 7 points or less. This year they have improved to 4 wins. :laugh:

Send me some of that airplane glue you're sniffing, Speedwagon. :laugh:

[bulldog]

the Redskins trio of Snyder/Cerrato/Spurrier acting in concert does not have the requisite knowledge of the NFL or its processes to put on the field an organized, efficient and set to contend product.

that is just the painful truth.

nearing the end of Year 2 of the Spurrier era the Redskins seem dead in the water.

the defense is worse than last year.

the special teams are marginally better.

the offense is still a mix and match of talent and holes that need to be filled.

the top draft choice from this past year, Taylor Jacobs, was a season long no show and BOTH top draft picks from 2002, Ramsey and Betts are on the shelf with injuries that have made ruins of their 2003 seasons.

meanwhile you have the Cowboys building with younger players and a pliable cap under Bill Parcells.

and you have the Giants perhaps reaching out to Jimmy Johnson to coach the club in 2004.

Philly at 11-3 may be headed to its first Super Bowl under Andy Reid and has a number of younger core players to keep the team competitive into the future.

Doesn't look as if the Skins are going to have an easy climb to the top of this division any time soon, and that's assuming the club is actually in the process of getting its act together.

But we don't in fact know that until we start to see signs.

And so far the signs are that the trifecta in charge is still in the questioning and blaming stage.

I think it is clear that Cerrato doesn't think much of some of Spurrier's selections on his staff, especially Helton and Edwards.

I think it is also probable that Spurrier doesn't feel as if Snyder and Cerrato gave him a good enough defense to win with in 2003, even if the offense was healthy and productive.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by inmate running the asylum

Yeah, right. Detroit was 3-13 last year and lost 8 of 13 "close" games by 7 points or less. This year they have improved to 4 wins. :laugh:

Send me some of that airplane glue you're sniffing, Speedwagon. :laugh:

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Detroit changed coaching staffs, yeah that was the way to go

thanks for helping the continuity backers

[bulldog]

continuity from 2002 to 2003 has given us a 5-9 record and a quite familiar third out of fourth place standing in the East.

it is not merely continuity, but continuity based on the RIGHT TALENT MIX AND COACHING, that makes the difference.

we had continuity under Norv for years and spun our wheels amid the 'near misses' and 'almosts' and 'we competed hard' efforts that seemed to characterize the team the way winning did in the 1980's.

it took Norv 6 years to get the Redskins to a 10 win season and a playoff berth.

Spurrier? Spurrier seems to be trailing Turner.

At least Norv was knowledgeable about how to get some productivity out of the offense, even if his leadership and ability to gain accountability from the players was little better than the OBC.

Spurrier isn't concerned with constructing a defense or special teams and his offense is a mess.

So, where is the $5 million being gainfully employed?

At least his kids won't have to work hard in their careers to provide for themselves :laugh:

[chiefhogskin48]

We might well be stuck with Spurrier for another year. It may do more harm than good if Snyder fires Spurrier outright. How many coaches would want to follow the kind of horror show of impatience and ineptitude that has existed in this organization for the last 4 years? I think Snyder will play chicken with Spurrier, hoping that he steps down quietly. Unfortunately, Spurrier may well be a masochist and stick around another year because he wants to be true to his word (or almighty dollar).

Spurrier in 2004 could mean more misery for 'Skins fans

[Skins24]

Originally posted by Craig

As long as Synder and Cerrato are running this team, they will suck. I don't care who the coach is.

lol

No matter how many times that's posted and no matter how many people agree, it's still the worst agrument ever.

Look at Cincinnati this year, look at Philly....

The Synder-Cerrato combo produced Coles, Hall, Morton, Trung, Thomas, Fiore, Noble. They're not the reasons why the team is in the position it's in now.

"But they did nothing about our defense?"

What about our defense? It was ranked 5th last year. Would you change it?

Last offseason our DTs were looking like:

Gardener-Noble

or

Gardener-BD

Neither combo is bad.

What happened?

Gardener left;

Noble got injured;

BD woldn't restructure;

How much of that was Dan-Vin's fault?

I'm sure we could have offered Gardener even more money. But, uh...

Oh, and the DE market was stellar during the offseason wasn't it? So I guess they messed up there too...

I would absolutely LOVE for us to get a REAL gm, but to say we're bad because of Snyder-Carrotoe and that tired statement that we'll never be good with them is not completely based on fact (they do f up sometimes).

If there's no real improvement in this team next year, Spurrier has got to go. If we end up 9-7 but are still looking a little so-so...I don't know...I still think you may need to get rid of him. Depends on how "so-so" I guess.

[bubba9497]

Spurrier isn't concerned with constructing a defense or special teams and his offense is a mess.

sigh......:doh:

Where does Spurrier says, he is not concerned over Defense, or Special teams... hmmmm lets see, .....last year he and Snyder made Special teams a priority, bringing in Hall, and Morton to drastically improve special teams over 2002.

I have heard the Ball coach express concern over the lack of a pass rush, and making it a priority this off season several times in interviews. So logic says he will follow up on what he has said, as he did last year about improving team needs, in speed, OGs, Special teams.

It has been shown repeatly the improvements that have been made from the 2002 5-9 record to the current 5-9, even though at present the improvements haven't shown in total number of Wins. I even remember reading a thread where someone proclaimed that Spurrier was doing some great coaching after the injuries....

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42601&highlight=bulldog

The offense is not high flying as expected (yet), but Ramsey injured his foot before the half way point effecting his throws, we haven't had the full compliments of RB since game 3, having at least 2 rbs out out every game, We have lost our our starting TE, LG, LT, C.. from the first of the year. We are starting a backup QB, that came aboard at mid season, and our #1 WR has had a foot injury most of the season..... I can't understand why we are not the #1 ranked offense like we were after the first 4 games.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Skins24

lol

No matter how many times that's posted and no matter how many people agree, it's still the worst agrument ever.

Look at Cincinnati this year, look at Philly....

The Synder-Cerrato combo produced Coles, Hall, Morton, Trung, Thomas, Fiore, Noble. They're not the reasons why the team is in the position it's in now.

"But they did nothing about our defense?"

What about our defense? It was ranked 5th last year. Would you change it?

Last offseason our DTs were looking like:

Gardener-Noble

or

Gardener-BD

Neither combo is bad.

What happened?

Gardener left;

Noble got injured;

BD woldn't restructure;

How much of that was Dan-Vin's fault?

I'm sure we could have offered Gardener even more money. But, uh...

Oh, and the DE market was stellar during the offseason wasn't it? So I guess they messed up there too...

I would absolutely LOVE for us to get a REAL gm, but to say we're bad because of Snyder-Carrotoe and that tired statement that we'll never be good with them is not completely based on fact (they do f up sometimes).

Skin24, let me amend my quote. No coach Synder would hire will help the team. Sure, if we got Parcells to coach, that would have been great. He wants control over personel decisions, so that wouldn't happen. The Redskins would get a yes man to Synder. Wonderful. We see how well it is working with Spurrier.

I am not sure how you don't place blame on Cerrato and Danny Boy for not making sure we had an adequate Defensive line for this year. Who would you blame for that? So what if our defense was 5th last year. That means you don't continually try to upgrade? I admit, my knowledge of the game isn't as strong as some people on here. But I do know this. You build a strong team through the lines. When the FO overlooked the d-line of the team, I just knew the Redskins would have a subpar year. Seems to be to be Football 101 type knowledge that Cerrato and Synder don't get. Hmmm.

Fact is, I don't know how to judge Spurrier, because I don't know if he really is getting the personnel he wants. So yes, I am completely down on Synder and think this team will be in a funk until we bring in FOOTBALL PEOPLE to run the team.

[bulldog]

Spurrier started out referring questions about defensive personnel and performance to Marvin Lewis.

The Redskins special teams were atrocious last year and were not highlighted by Spurrier as being important until the club got burned repeatedly by guys like Michael Lewis.

Spurrier came in here and thought by implementing his offense he could carry the day with even medium effort in other areas.

Anyone remember his suggestions to the front office to immediately make moves for Wuerffel, Green, Anthony, Doering?

The only ex-Gator the Skins had to convince Spurrier to take was Shane Matthews and he is the only one that did a damn thing last year.

Anthony and Green didn't even last the season on the roster :laugh:

No, I wouldn't say that Spurrier came in here and had an overall plan for the football TEAM.

He had a plan for the offense.

And that plan largely fizzled.

As to where the club was after four weeks this year, at 3-1.........it is a sucker's game to look at idle streaks and make value judgments.

I could just as easily point to the fact that the Norv Skins started 7-1 in 1996, 4-2 in 1997 and 6-2 in 2000.

Where is Norv today?

Has he gotten a shot at a head job in the almost 4 years since he has been on the street?

[bubba9497]

So you are basically saying, Spurrier coaching improved from year 1 to year 2, so again logic would say, he will continue to improve in year 3 :ha:

:thumbsup: :applause:

:rotflmao:

[steve57]

No one's been more harsh about the current state of the Skins than the WP's Boswell. But a few weeks back he wrote a hopeful column regarding how close the Skins were to being competitive. But the level of unraveling that has occurred in those last few weeks seem to have nudged him into the con side of things.

I'm con. This is the NFL, and I expect a certain level of play even from struggling teams. To lay down and die, like the Skins did against Dallas is an indictment against a team's professionalism. (But it's not the first time I've seen such Skin's efforts. I saw similar gutless performances under Turner.) Week by week you see flashes here and there, but in general you get this sense that the team is not prepared.

The Assistants, and thier fate. Who picked them? And who should take responsibility for those decisions? (Not to mention Spurrier's lucky charm fixation on Danny W.) This notion that Spurrier is some kind of mystical football god that can somehow work if just the right environment can be created for him makes the guy sound like a brainless plant. Maybe he'll grow some pretty winning colors if we can dump the right fertilizer on him. If he can't make such fundamental decisions, fire him. It's a big boy league, not a learn as you go league. Not after two years.

Dallas. Cincy. They're winning in year # 1. Yeah, yeah. We have a tougher schedule. But it's more than that. Dallas for example displays a mental toughness under Tuna, even when losing, that I've not seen with the Skins going back to Joe Gibbs' days. Ever notice how often the Skins show up on other team's highlight films? As far as Cincy goes, I was in favor of bringing Lewis here as head coach after the Ravens won the Super Bowl.

So I don't think we'll get playoff better next year. Maybe scratch out an 8 & 8 under year 3 of Spurrier. Maybe not. But I don't think he will be back. But the problems go beyond that. It's structural. Vinny needs to go as well. And Snyder needs to grow up and leave behind those pinball notions of what he wants football to be vs. the sometimes unglamorous realities of winning in the NFL

[BG]

I think this off-season is critical. If we lose Champ and lose GE on the defensive side, we'll be in trouble. No matter what we get in the draft for Champ or defense, this D will be our week link. I am sure the offense will improve and show signs of SOS's FlA offenses. We will not have a great running game, but our back will lead the team in touchdowns and total yards. Whoever it is, I just feel it.

SOS will show his offense can work in this NFL or he can get fired and show it later in his career. Either way, I know it will show in some way shape or form. Get us a good draft, Fa's and keep the coaches except ( I can't say his name or else I will curse us) and we will be good. I have prayed and played the OUIJA. Tried to reverse the curse of 99 that had a Dan Turk burned in Effigy- God rest his soul, and thrown the Jerseys to the ocean Gods. It must happen next year and until my future born Children have grand children.

[Redskins022]

I think we will improve and possibly make the playoffs. Look we are not that far away we had a tough schedule this year and I think we did okay with it. If we could add a D-Line and a secondary we are right there. :dallasuck

[Tarhog]

No offense 22, but you've never experienced what its like when the Redskins are contending, winning consistently, going to the playoffs. We did not do okay this year. We're far more talented than our performance on the field showed. We had flashes this year, glimpses at what could be achieved with disciplined smart play. But we weren't okay, and we were a far sight farther from good.

[bubba9497]

Mark Maske: I do think the Redskins' fan base will be very skeptical heading into next season. The fans won't be excited about a few offseason moves this time around. They will want to see results on the field next season before they believe. But this is a town that will never turn completely on this team, and the fans will love everyone in this organization from top to bottom if the Redskins find a way to win again. As far as needing serious help, that's obviously true. But I don't think they're as far away from being a decent to good team as it looked like last Sunday. They need Spurrier to keep his word and stay because, as we've seen around here in recent years, the first season under a new coach usually isn't pretty unless the coach is Bill Parcells (or maybe Marvin Lewis). They need to fix the defensive line. They need to fill a few other holes, like at tight end and safety. And if they can do that, I don't rule out them being pretty good next season. What we've seen about the NFL these days is that you can go from being a bad team to a good team in a year.

[Henry]

You know, at this point I have no clue.

I feel like I've been going down a river and the rapids keep getting worse and worse, and at some point it gets so bad I just have to throw down the oars and ride that sucker and either wipe out completely, or hit better waters. I'm done fighting the current. We'll improve next year or we won't, but either way I'll be riding it out.

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by Henry

You know, at this point I have no clue.

I feel like I've been going down a river and the rapids keep getting worse and worse, and at some point it gets so bad I just have to throw down the oars and ride that sucker and either wipe out completely, or hit better waters. I'm done fighting the current. We'll improve next year or we won't, but either way I'll be riding it out.

'Aintry?'

'This river don't go no where NEAR Aintry!'

[NavyDave]

We'll be better

Oh and the "great" veteran coach marriucci coming here would have had you fair weather fans salivating.

Healthy the O line is a strength.

I feel for S Double because his system can work at this level how ever he has to trust it to a young inexperienced QB an inconsistent WR named gardner and not a true HB at the position.

A fred taylor type here would do wonders.

Once ramsey sees the whole field and releases the ball quicker we'll be seeing the positieve aspects of the system but unless we grab some decent players for the D line and at TE we'll have a 9-7 record but not go deep in the postseason

[hail2skins]

The expectations of Spurrier have probably placed too high, in large part because of the big fat salary Danny is giving him. However, I would probably be more forgiving of Spurrier if I at least had the perception that he was working harder for this team. But the impression I get is of a guy who really doesn't want to work hard enough to make his team a success. Lets get some young gun in here who is hungry and likes to sleep on a cot in his office every once in a while and please Danny don't pay the guy an exhorbitant salary!!