Will the coaching be good enough for the talent?

[MartinC]

7 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

And that was a mistake IMO. He was worth keeping around.

 

That really was not an option.

 

He was rightly looking for an opportunity to start/be paid starting tackle money. He can start on a lot of teams in this league but we are not one of them. Given our cap position with Smith's contract hanging over us paying a backup tackle low end starting tackle money was not going to happen.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

If the team falters this year, many of you will get what you want, a new HC. My warning is, be careful what you wish for, you just may get it. 

 

Like you, I am somewhat Jay friendly compared to most here.  But the thing for me is even if I played along and got jazzed about lets see what we got if we open door #2 -- I don't think it will be for sure like the old days especially if Bruce stays.  By that I mean for all of Dan's faults, I think some of us (I know I have) might take for granted that the dude can lure top head coaching prospects considering we got Gibbs back and also Marty, Shanny and Spurrier when he was perceived as a hot coaching candidate. 

 

Laconfora said it well when the Redskins were poking around at adding some talent to the FO years back when he said more or less his league sources told him that there are big enough reservations working for Dan but if you add Bruce into the mix -- that's double trouble and makes positions at Redskins Park even less appealing then they ever were.  He also added that the team is now considered cheap at least as to paying FO people compared to other teams in the league.   If that's so, does that extend to coaching now, too?  I don't know.  But I do recall the narrative that the Redskins lost the guy who some said they wanted to run their secondary who was in house to the Rams because the Rams were willing to pay the dude significantly more. 

 

If Bruce is still here then IMO he likely would want someone that he has ties to and get that candidate at a "deal".  So I doubt that dude ends up a sexy type hire.   And if Bruce is gone, I got some doubts that Dan would have the same sway he had years back.  The sample size has gotten bigger where it's tougher to sell that Dan can build a winner eventually -- let alone the drama that the organization has a reputation for over the years.  In short, I am not so convinced any of the hot shot HC candidates will be salivating to come here. 

 

 My disclaimer to that is if Haskins looks like the goods the organization becomes more appealing but heck if that happens Jay's job is likely secure.  My gut is if they replace Jay its with someone in house.  I'd guess O'Connell albeit he lacks experience. 

[ClaytoAli]

3 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

I always thought of Moses as a good tackle who lapses every once in a while.  He’ll have a play or two in the game where he gets beat or misses a block. In your opinion is he good or average?

Oh you mean when he is not habitually false starting?

[PartyPosse]

I like Moses. He's a warrior, but it's only a matter of time before the constant injuries take its toll. You already saw a lot of that this year. 

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

While I get your point, not sure I totally agree. He got paid a lot of money - $14.2M for 2 yrs with $7.7M in guarantees. He was good when in but was banged up himself quite a bit. And he will turn 34 this season. I can see moving on not wanting to pay that money. Also, he has a chance to start with the Bills. he was not going to do that here. If anything, maybe that was the mistake. 

Agreed. When he was severely underpaid he was a great swing tackle to have as a back-up, but no team should be paying any back-up OL more than 5 million a year. 

[Vanguard]

9 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Even though PFF is not always a perfect way of rating players I think it's a good benchmark and I agree with them on their Moses ranking which is the low side of average.

 

Last year he did some things that really bothered me so I started watching his film over the course of 8 games, to me he looks awful, slow feet, poor balance, it's clear he gets tired during games and starts leaning which is what seems to get him in trouble like in the 2nd Dallas game when he missed a chip on Lawrence and it turned into a 2 handed INT by a D lineman.

 

I like him and his family, they are nice people but I don't think he is worthy of his contract, he's only ok if Scherff is next to him.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Maybe Scherff is really that good.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinzplay]

I think the D is gonna be hummin'. I'm still not convinced that Manusky actually knows how to coordinate a defense, but if he can't get it done, he's gone by Week 4 and Horton takes over. I still have major concerns about the HC. Let's see how things go with a new supporting cast around him (QB coach, OC). There's only so much that can be done to mask his deficiencies and shield the team president from deserved criticism for making a stupid hire in the first place. But I'm a Skins man through and through, and I'd rather win than be right, so let's roll 2019 season. Hail!

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:16 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The article states the 'Skins became predictable on first down offense.  Ya think?

 

However, I actually think this is going to take care of itself.  I wrote in anther post somewhere that I really don't think Jay ever trusted Smith to throw the short/quick WCO style passing game.  And wthout that trust, he thought AP getting yards on first down would be more consistent.  I can't blame that logic, though after about the 200th run for no yards on first down, you might want to try something different.

 

That said, after Smith got hurt, we only had a flash of Colt before Sanchez and then Johnson were playing, and again, putting the ball in APs hands more often than not was not a bad plan.

 

So with Smith out this year, and Keenum probably better at what Gruden likes than Smith, I think there's a pretty good chance they will be more varied on first down.  At least I really hope so.  I don't actually even know if O'Connell changes much there. Jay probably WANTS to be more aggressive on first down, but felt he couldn't be.  I kindof disagree with the premise, I think being unpredictable helps execution, but I understand what he was thinking.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 6/3/2019 at 8:59 AM, JSSkinz said:

Jay has had absolute garbage to work with for most of his career at Washington.  He's never had a run game, the O lineman are never healthy and Moses underperforms consistently.

That's not entirely true.  In 2014 he had the RGIII debacle, and even I, probably known as his toughest critic, give him a pass on that.

 

2015 and 2016 he did not have garbage to work with.  It's 2 years ago now, but it happened.  There was a lot of talent on offense, we didn't have near the number of injuries.  However, we did hire the DC with the worst resume in the history of the NFL, and that didn't help much on that side of the ball.  

 

I can understand and "forgive" Jay for the injuries, unsettled QB situation, a lot of things in 2017 and 2018.  We let 2 good WRs go with no plan to replace them, couldn't figure out what to do at QB, then signed a QB who didn't really fit the scheme, a lot of guys got hurt, yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't absolve him from game-planing, preparation, lead-blowing, no adjustment sins, but there are explanations to a lot of the results the last two years which make some sense.  

 

The unforgivable sin to me was 2016.  There was enough talent on that team to win 10+ games.  But they were SO poorly coached on defense, they ended up with literally the worst 3rd down and long defense in the history of the NFL.  They lost must-win game after must-win game to get in the playoffs.  Basically a complete collapse down the stretch with a team that should have been able to do a lot better.  A better coaching staff gets that team to the playoffs.

 

The week 17 game against the Giants might be one of the single worst team performances in the history of the organization.  I'm on record, and was on record as soon as that game ended I thought they should move on from Gruden, Kirk and the whole lot of them.  

 

That said, we are where we are.  And I think Jay has a good chance this year to be successful.  Though a lot of it is going to rest on Manusky and the defensive coaching staff.  If the defense can be a top-10 unit, I think the offense can be above average, and they will win some games.  

 

For reasons I don't really comprehend, I actually have some optimism going into this year.  I don't see superbowl, but maybe, just maybe, they have things pointed in the right direction and can get a few extra wins.  

[skins island connection]

2016 was where Gruden was really exposed in pressure situations in the 4th qtr.

 

But yea, the Giants game, where the Giants had all but given up, nothing to play for, Redskins playoff hopes hanging, and they laid a dinosaur egg.

The really screwed up part was, many of us KNEW they would go into that game thinking the Giants would just lay down, and, well, we all know what happened.

 

But this is the exact reason why I doubt Jay will get above 5-6 wins. He just doesn't have that 'thing' that good coaches do. As a coordinator, he might be good, but as HC there are way too many things going on, and Jay gets so focused into the moment he can't separate himself to adjust on the fly.

 

Manusky?  Nah, i'll pass.  There were a number of times where the opportunity to get a quality, proven DC in here, but they blew it, and settled for yet another castaway who enjoys putting the defense in soft zones and hoping for bad passes.

 

Damn, I used to get pumped at the beginning of seasons, butterflies in my tummy, beer in one hand and my 'almost world famous' bbq chicken in the other.

Now its just like tv dinners; I know in 3-1/2 to 4 minutes its done, just like the Redskins' chances of being a quality team.

 

[RandyHolt]

I am kinda burned out on Jay. He is a great guy offensive mind everyone loves him, but he just seems to lack that killer instinct. Finish him.  He is a fantasy owners nightmare, except that one stretch of games late in 2015 where he was very unpredictable and passed and ran on downs you weren't supposed to in the 1970's.  The media must LOVE Jay since he spills the beans getting tossed out to the media ill prepared to handle the latest team PR disaster.

 

The buzz around the team from drafting Haskins and adding OCKOC to call plays, has been severely offset by Trent telling Bruce to go **** himself. But maybe we will get to see a new play caller in a new look offense.... that has me more intrigued than usual. Jay certainly needed a fresh set of eyes after losing McVay.

 

And for the love of the game, someone take the replay buzzer away from our assistant head coach defense, Bruce Allen.