Renegade7 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 8:41 AM, Momma There Goes That Man said: I think he will likely die next episode. The character William might live on as Jimmi Simpson in future seasons as a host. That's too easy, he needs something worse then death. Quote Even if he was a host he would still feel pain so that doesn't matter. He's just tougher than a $2 steak as we have seen the past two seasons. Killing his daughter didn't have to mean he thought she was a hybrid like Delos. Just that he thought she was a host Ford had created. He got shot 4 times, fam, he's not tough as nails, he's a hybrid. Do you know anyone that can dig in there arm like that like it''s a slight inconvenience? Don't forget, in second movie they were successfully replacing people with hosts doubles to increase their outside influence. Jus feels too easy that she's really dead. Quote I know there are still some MIB host theories but I just thought this episode cleared it up. I like the narrative of him losing his reality and his mind with how much time he has spent and given to Westworld. I think there could be a Jimmi Simpson version of William running around as a hybrid somewhere though. Possible, though I think it helps to look at where the movies pulled from for a hint, there is some source material here. Quote I couldn't tell if that was Teddy fighting it or the Ghost Nation brave doing something that forced him to hold off. The brave looked like it was what he expected to happen as he walked off. It would make more sense to have Teddy fighting it, given how his arc ended a later. It's why Teddy said they werent nature. Everything they thought they were was programming that could be adjusted, who they thought they were wasn't real either but a recollection at best of everything that was programmed to be you or happen to you, and knowing the real you is just a realizition of that BS, attacking humanity wasn't going to help or change that. He was intelligent enough to know what he didn't want to be, humans do that all the time, but having to resist a changing to your very identity like your possessed, Teddy was in love with someone that didn't exist anymore, who changed him to be something he didn't want to be because she didn't like him anymore because he was too nice, but that's part of why they were in love, his heart. If Delores was willing to go that far to make him cold, would she completely reduce him once she figured that out or just kill him? I think he just decided not to wait to find out. Quote As we saw last week, the Valley Beyond is their religion. It's a door to the right world that they hope to pass through. It is not a weapon or something the deathbringer should desecrate. That is why they want to stop her. I thought at least that main character had figured out they were machines and what Delores was after because of either being smart or Ford getting that info to them. I didnt get the feel Ghost Nation was still entirely in character. I think yiure selling them short on how much they understand about what's going on at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: i thought at least that main character had figured out they were machines and what Delores was after because of either being smart or Ford getting that info to them. I didnt get the feel Ghost Nation was still entirely in character. I think yiure selling them short on how much they understand about what's going on at this point. I never got an implication that Akechita thought they were machines. I’m not even sure how he would process that or know what it was anyway. But the way he spoke was in a very spiritual/reincarnation type of way which is line with NA tribes and their stories. That whole episode felt like he was sitting at a campfire telling his kids about the world and I never felt like he had that true grasp of reality regarding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: I never got an implication that Akechita thought they were machines. I’m not even sure how he would process that or know what it was anyway. But the way he spoke was in a very spiritual/reincarnation type of way which is line with NA tribes and their stories. That whole episode felt like he was sitting at a campfire telling his kids about the world and I never felt like he had that true grasp of reality regarding it. Hmm... I took it as if anyone had figured it out was the one guy who faked his death to get in hq. The storytelling was out of this world because he was trying to keep in context what he was realizing and others were starting to notice. He even ran into Ford, he knows too much to have not at least put that part together, though I agree I don't believe he's told everyone what he knows, jus what they need to for right now. Asimov would be proud, I see two things new touched on, that AI if given memories that are supposed to explain their character and values, they will figure that and wonder who they really are vs what they want to be. I can't imagine my experiences replaced and my character changed on a whim, regardless of the reason. It's a direct threat to our free will, it's no suprise any host would get angry or feel threatened by that. They also my empathize with us, but they will never look at us as their fellow man, a machine acting humane is oxymoronic, you can't program them to give a **** about that plus the ability to realize they were programmed to give a ****, not taught, not trusted. I don't think AI on that level can be trusted, you'd have to practice raise a machine to not look at us as inferior and expendable, yet we have seen relentless examples in sci-fi of just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I've personally found this season to be pretty boring. Hope the finale ends things properly or I may bail on season 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'd say if don't have patince to see how far they plan to extrapolate on these fundamental questions that have to be answered if we go in this direction with AI, ya, you will lose patince with the mutiple timeline thing this season. There organizations and leading scientists begging us to put caps on AI, this show is unapologetically showing why. But I'm in IT and have patince for baseball, so I understand this not being everyone's cup of tea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I got about 70% of all that. The post credits scene got me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The post credit scene has left me utterly confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Fight4RGIII said: I got about 70% of all that. The post credits scene got me Ah crap, there was a post credit scene? God damn it everyone copying Marvel now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Wow he really was a host. I’m going to sit in the dark and think about this for an hour. There is a hell of a lot to take in Just now, Warhead36 said: Ah crap, there was a post credit scene? God damn it everyone copying Marvel now. Yeah and it’s massively ****ing important. Basically fills in what happened to William after he went down the elevator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Was this entire thing just a fidelity test for William? I’m still not convinced that he’s a host. I think Emily is ****ing with him. She knows he’s bat**** crazy and questioning his own reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Was this entire thing just a fidelity test for William? Im thinking William died at some point after this arc perhaps shortly after the very end of this season’s story. The post credits scene could easily be set 75 years from now and his fidelity test is playing out his role in that because it’s something that was so vitally important to him with killing his daughter etc i stand by the belief that the William of Season 2 is a human he went down the same elevator and ended up in a completely different part of the forge than Delores did and t was all run down and sandy like it’s been a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 So does MIB never actually go down the elevator in the present timeline? Bernard never encounters him in the elevator, which makes sense now. William going down the elevator seems to be his fidelity test set in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, No Excuses said: So does MIB never actually go down the elevator in the present timeline? Bernard never encounters him in the elevator, which makes sense now. William going down the elevator seems to be his fidelity test set in the future. Its something along those lines. He couldn’t have stayed where he was or he would have drowned but he either went down there and just missed everybody or somebody picked him up prior to that. I think they will show show what happened to him next season. Theyve been messing with the audience all season on the William/host stuff. This was a classic misdirection at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Great season overall. The last episode really tied everything in. This show tackles the issue of artificial intelligence and human consciousness so well. I guess we just have to wait for the next season to get clarity on that last scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Yeah I loved it. As far as everything else: Delores, Bernard and a host version of Charlotte(?) are in the real/our world. Delores had a couple more pearls/minds as well so I’m not sure who else might be there. Bernard went back and uses all the data on Abernathy to instead send all of the hosts through the door, then moved its coordinates so nobody would find it? That’s why Teddy was alive in there in the end and I assume all of our favorite hosts like maeve and hector will be there too. It would be enough freedom and a new world for all of the hosts but not enough for Delores. She’s knows reality too much to be satisfied with that. Not entirely sure what she’s planning but she expects to be combative with Bernard while they try to bring/create new hosts in this world Bernard finally become woke/conscious and broke free from his programming by finally confronting the bicameral mind and realizing all of the voices in his head he always thought were Ford’s were actually his. I like that it went back to a big part of season 1’s plot for that moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Neat catch I saw online. When we last see James Delos locked in his fidelity room after William leaves him for good to let him deteriorate, he is cutting his face while saying “I’m all the way down now” tonight showed that was the final thing Logan said to him. Damn that’s brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 There’s gonna be a next season? Seems like they wrapped everything up nicely. Plus, they killed off 75% of the characters. That said, they can just rebuild the park again... in fact who’s to say that this hasn’t happened before. I was hoping that Delores would escape only to find that the “real world” was a ****hole and all the rich people were coming to Westworld to get away from reality. Like that awesome Michale Bay movie The Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Up until the point that Bernard revealed Dolores's rebirth it was getting really depressing. I'm still not happy about Elsie and Maive and her crew dying, although it seems like Maive will probably be back in some form next season. There was a lot of confusing stuff this episode. The final post credit scene, Dolores supposedly creating Bernard, the door and what it led to, why the hosts were still going crazy after Clementine was taken down, what happened to William before they found him lying on the ground, also how did Dolores/Hale pass the scan test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Not entirely sure what she’s planning but she expects to be combative with Bernard while they try to bring/create new hosts in this world She's going to start replacing people necessary to get a foothold in the real world to help put the odds in the hosts favor. The fear in the second movie was if they didn't stop them most world leaders would be replaced and decisions would be made that by the time humans realized they were no longer in control of their world, it was too late. Told you he was a host because they already established that they figured that out in the franchise before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Springfield said: There’s gonna be a next season? Seems like they wrapped everything up nicely. Plus, they killed off 75% of the characters. That said, they can just rebuild the park again... in fact who’s to say that this hasn’t happened before. I was hoping that Delores would escape only to find that the “real world” was a ****hole and all the rich people were coming to Westworld to get away from reality. Like that awesome Michale Bay movie The Island. All of the hosts are alive within the door. The world Ford built them where they could live on their own, uninterrupted by humans. The satellite was likely sent to to some server or something at Arnold's house where Delores, host Hale and Bernard are at the end. Delores is talking about that world Fors built for them as they are going through the gates to Arnold's house it appears to me that the world is fairy ****ed in the future whether by Delores/ hosts or some other reason. I think it would be pretty cool if the hosts **** up the future and then have to try to bring back humanity to some degree which is why they are running a fidelity test on future William at the end 2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Told you he was a host because they already established that they figured that out in the franchise before hand. Hes not a host tho. Not during the events of season 1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, Springfield said: There’s gonna be a next season? Seems like they wrapped everything up nicely. Plus, they killed off 75% of the characters. That said, they can just rebuild the park again... in fact who’s to say that this hasn’t happened before. They continued making other parks based off it, but I think left westworld abandon. I can see them also being arrogant enough to rebuild westworld, especially since they have to fix the others. In sequel, hosts were doing daily operations instead of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Hes not a host tho. Not during the events of season 1-2 And jack up his hand and leave bullet holes in him for the fidelity test at the end? Bernard stopped the flooding after a certain point, no telling how long or short William is laying outside like that. See how they scanned home girl at the end and she passed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: And jack up his hand and leave bullet holes in him for the fidelity test at the end? Bernard stopped the flooding after a certain point, no telling how long or short William is laying outside like that. See how they scanned home girl at the end and she passed? Because that is what really happened to him. There is a reason why Logan showed us Jame Delos going back thru his memories and the signature moments of his life, they have to recreate him to always get back to the point where he had the same conversation with Logan. It was imperative to who Delos was. This arc and killing Emily was the same point for William imo which is why they are letting the hybrid/host version follow the same course of events. They can always fix his fingers once he passes fidelity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Because that is what really happened to him. There is a reason why Logan showed us Jame Delos going back thru his memories and the signature moments of his life, they have to recreate him to always get back to the point where he had the same conversation with Logan. It was imperative to who Delos was. This arc and killing Emily was the same point for William imo which is why they are letting the hybrid/host version follow the same course of events. They can always fix his fingers once he passes fidelity You know what, he was laying on the bed before the credits. Something is off, though, like too easy. You think that's his real daughter or a host doing a fidelity test at the end with him? Maybe this is to keep us asking questions, I can't get him checking his arm like that with the wife out of my head. That maybe the same building in the future, but why recreate William if it really is that far in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: You know what, he was laying on the bed before the credits. Something is off, though, like too easy. You think that's his real daughter or a host doing a fidelity test at the end with him? Maybe this is to keep us asking questions, I can't get him checking his arm like that with the wife out of my head. That maybe the same building in the future, but why recreate William if it really is that far in the future? It can’t be his real daughter, she hasn’t aged and it’s clearly set in the future. She is a host running his fidelity test in the same way Delores ran Bernard’s when he was first created. As for the arm, he was going crazy. The arm checking thing was just a red herring becaus they played with the idea of him being a host all season, knowing it would be a big theory. It’s also just an indicator that he was losing grip of his realities. It was only around a year from the time his wife committed suicide to the beginning of season 1 anyway so it’s logical that event and going back into WW, killing Maeve and her daughter kinda set him on the course of season 1-2 as he continues spiraling further out of control, peaking in that moment after killing Emily and checking his arm while Delores finds him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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