PCS Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 User Actions Follow Wanda Moore@WandaKTVZ Bundy and others indicted by federal grand jury. Judge orders that defense attorneys will receive indictment within 24-hours User Actions Follow Ryan HaasVerified account@ryanjhaas Judge orders that defense attorneys should receive a copy of the indictment within 24 hours. Defense attorneys say they're upset because their clients are being held and they were given no word of the indictment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Still thinking (shocking, I know) about that article PCS posted, a while back. The article at least implies that DHS had a very experienced, professional, team of people analyzing domestic terrorism. And this team, shortly after Obama took office, produced a study in which it predicted a surge in domestic terrorism from right wing extremist groups. (I think it could be argued, predicted correctly.) And the study was leaked, for political reasons. And the GOP flew into spasms of mock outrage, for political reasons. And for political reasons, this team of highly experienced, professional counter terrorism experts was shut down, and their people scattered to other agencies. And, the article at least implies, nobody else took up the job. And now (well, at least as of the time of the article, which I get the impression was a while back), no one is studying the issue of domestic terrorism, any more. Too political, or something. The only terrorism you're allowed to be on the lookout for, is Islamic terrorism. Should we assume that this assertion is true? And, if so, is it possible to do anything about it? I'll confess, all through this incident, I've been operating under the assumption that once this incident began, these yahoos got themselves re-classified as being over some legal line or other, and that now the government has the power to do all kinds of things that they couldn't do, before, and that the resulting Divine Retribution will be swift and terrible. But I'm not so sure of that assumption, any more. And, I guess I have to examine, do we want the government to have all sorts of extra-constitutional powers against this kind of thing? I'll freely admit that back when W began asserting all sorts of new powers, I had (and still have) all kinds of problems with the assertions that the President has the authority to just declare Person X to be beyond the jurisdiction of the US constitution. Should we give the government extra-constitutional powers to deal with groups like this? Or, for one thing, are we capable of dealing with them without those powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 . And, the article at least implies, nobody else took up the job. And now (well, at least as of the time of the article, which I get the impression was a while back), no one is studying the issue of domestic terrorism, any more. Too political, or something. # Should we give the government extra-constitutional powers to deal with groups like this? Or, for one thing, are we capable of dealing with them without those powers? you may rest assured they are being tracked and studied no, there are quite enough constitutional avenues to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 KGW News Verified account @KGWNews 16m16 minutes ago Read the indictment of Ammon Bundy, followers http://on.kgw.com/1P97FFm #Oregonstandoff The list includes all 4 left in the refuge. That could be a bit of a game changer. Apparently several groups of "militias" are trying to organize something on Friday,but others on Saturday. Could be another testy weekend in Burns. Especially if the FBI decides to move on the refuge before tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Attorney ranting Wait a second, if the defendants do not recognize the soverignty of the Federal government then how do they get off using attorneys and claiming rights guarranteed by the Federal government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 God I hope they lock up Fry. That kid will be devoured within a week (not talking about rape) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 That reminds me. After the FBI cut off all phones,they arranged a pick-up of a phone provided by the FBI. It can only dial out. Facebook has warned the Bundy Ranch page to moderate or get shut down. See what happens with that. The FBI notified the 4 that a few ranchers were going to be escorted on to the refuge for irrigation purposes. Happens later today I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (Bundy Indictment). The list includes all 4 left in the refuge. That could be a bit of a game changer. A lot less specificity than I was hoping for. Really not much "there", there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 It's largely believed that this is just a start. There's more coming. Sample conversation on Twitter. It's just the initial indictment. This is going to be a long process - probably 1 to 2 years. JJ MacNab @jjmacnab 1h1 hour ago @Badar1 So far, they've been charged with 18 USC § 372 which has a max sentence of 6 yrs. 4 retweets2 likes Reply Retweet 4 Like 2 More lawhawk @lawhawk 1h1 hour ago Expect superseding indictments w/more charges added. Like vandalism 18 USC 1666: damage $100+ = up to $250k, 10 years @jjmacnab @Badar1 13 retweets12 likes Reply Retweet 13 Like 12 More JJ MacNab @jjmacnab 1h1 hour ago @lawhawk @Badar1 Considering how many of the defendants are felons, probably some gun charges too. 7 retweets5 likes Reply Retweet 7 Like 5 More User Actions Follow lawhawk@lawhawk Plus theft of govt vehicle, unauthorized use of federal computer systems, tampering w/utilities, etc. Most caught on tape @jjmacnab @Badar1 RETWEETS14 LIKES15 9:13 AM - 4 Feb 2016 Reply Retweet Like More Tweet text Reply to @lawhawk @jjmacnab @Badar1 Who's in these photos? MrPeabody'sMom @MACHPeabody 1h1 hour ago @lawhawk @jjmacnab @Badar1 plus numerous violations of Refuge regulations and Antiquities Act 7 retweets13 likes Reply Retweet 7 Like 13 More labspokane @labspokane 50m50 minutes ago @MACHPeabody @jjmacnab @lawhawk @Badar1 Think all that will come as a result of crime science investigation. We will have to be patient. 0 retweets1 like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) Yeah these folks are doing at least 5 years after all the charges are added on. They're going to make an example of them. Also expect it to be dragged out for longer than 2 years. (Source: did some...work in federal court over a 4 year period.) Edit: also going to be curious what comes out when they start squeeling like pigs and working with the govt. Another reason they'll throw the book at them; pressure them into cooperating. Edited February 4, 2016 by BornaSkinsFan83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 With older Bundy claiming to be leading this remotely now. Why can't they pick him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 With older Bundy claiming to be leading this remotely now. Why can't they pick him up? Maybe some of them are smart enough to not say anything that's easily prosecuted, via lines which they assume are being monitored. Hey, it's possible some of them aren't idiots, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 A week after telling Oregon standoff holdouts to go, Ammon Bundy now tells police to leaveAmmon Bundy, leader of the monthlong armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge, said from jail Thursday that the takeover was "a needed action" and called on state and federal law enforcement officials to leave eastern Oregon. Bundy's attorneys in Eugene released an audio statement from their client after he learned of his federal indictment related to the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns. He has been charged along with 15 others with conspiracy to impede federal officers through intimidation, threats or force. *Click Link for More + recording of statement* Text of statement here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10208008054456162&id=1142386418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 24:30-26:30. Those 2 mins explains a few things. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 52:38 on that: "Pursuit of happiness being that we had property. And that's where happiness comes from, because our riches all come from the Earth." Scientology has some stiff competition coming down the pipe, doesn't it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Sure does. Okay. Now the time frame that's emphasized pretty much helps verify what several who are familiar with this stuff felt was going on. They're out there and stupid at times,but not completely dumb. Bundy's and PPN had this one planned. Where PPN blew it was the numbers game. When they first got there,(pretty much right on script),they did well. But this drug on and they got too comfortable,(part of FBI plan). They and the Bundy's were caught off guard by the Police and FBI move on them. PPN only had 6 or less in Burns at the time. Lavoy being killed rallied a bunch,but split a bunch. That reduced numbers willing to go for anything more than a day or so. Got so bad one of the founding members tried to guilt those who "couldn't" come by saying Lavoy Finnicum's blood was on their hands. That did not go over well. Several other militias having some similar issues too from what I understand. There were 2 plans of action for tomorrow and Saturday. Tomorrow's,I think,may be another rolling protest. That one is still on. Saturday's,was one that snuck up on everyone. It was first brought up by someone suspected of just trolling militia sites. Then this came out. Burns, OR Saturday Then suddenly this: More confirmation that #Oregonstandoff may be coming to an end There was a longer response from a user BJ Soler 2 that said that plus a bit more. Including how things changed when during a conversation with the 4 left,they said they were going to die there and anyone,including "rescuer's"would be met with deadly force. In a development today. http://www.bakercityherald.com/Local-News/Police-check-out-concerns-at-Interpretive-Center-after-man-acts-suspiciously Police check out concerns at Interpretive Center after man acts suspiciously *Click Link For more* Lavoy's funeral tomorrow so there will be a higher alert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 So wait, the four still there stated that they would be killing anyone and everyone, including PPN folks? Or am I reading you wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I mean, any "rescuers" are probably FBI. FBI is FBI. Rescuers are FBI. Guys in the video PCS posted, VERY CLEARLY FBI. Sheriff that won't help them, FBI. That crazy rep. lady from Nevada, FBI. Bundy, probably FBI and got himself caught. LaVoy, FBI, setting them up to be targets. You're FBI. I'm FBI. PCS is DEFINITELY FBI. Jumbo might be CIA. But zoony and tk, 100% F.B.I. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 BJ Soper of PPN: "The plan on Saturday was to peacefully try to go in and bring the 4 off the refuge." No more. Now mind you,there aren't too many people that actually believe they were going to go to the FBI blockades and "peacefully" go around it. If they showed up at all,(and they again overestimated response this),it would be a dozen or so and they'd do their yelling and bullhorn thing. The BS flags went right up after this action was called off as well. If anything,it gave the twitterverse something else to make fun of them about and they did. These militias are learning some hard lessons during this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Jumbo might be CIA. Army Psy Ops Edited February 6, 2016 by KAOSkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 5, 2016 Author Share Posted February 5, 2016 Keeping in mind that there's still enough of them out there that have been energized over this and there is a concern/fear that this won't be the only time this happens. Have one of these near you? Check the map. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_death_in_oregon.html LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across countryRobert "LaVoy" Finicum was shot to death by the side of a remote Oregon road. Few were there to see him die, but hundreds of people around the country have indicated they will attend rallies and vigils in his memory this weekend. Finicum was a prominent figure in the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. He was fatally shot by Oregon State Police on the 25th day of the occupation during a traffic stop that ended with the arrest of key leaders of the occupation. The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7. Though the FBI said Finicum was reaching for a gun before he was shot, some rally organizers said he should not have died. *Click Link for More* http://blog.adl.org/extremism/robert-lavoy-finicum-the-making-of-a-martyr Robert “LaVoy” Finicum: The Making of a MartyrOn January 26, 2016, Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, one of the anti-government extremists involved in the January 2 armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters near Burns, Oregon, was fatally wounded by Oregon State Police (OSP) troopers during an attempt by the OSP and the FBI to arrest Finicum and a number of key occupiers. Finicum, along with occupation leader Ammon Bundy and others, were traveling in two vehicles to attend a community meeting in John Day, Oregon, where they hoped to find support for their armed seizure. Seeing an opportunity to apprehend most of the takeover leaders away from the refuge and its many armed extremists, the FBI and the OSP organized a traffic stop with roadblocks along the rural road to John Day. One of the two vehicles stopped and its occupants were removed peacefully. *Click Link for More* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Keeping in mind that there's still enough of them out there that have been energized over this and there is a concern/fear that this won't be the only time this happens. Have one of these near you? Check the map. I really hope they take attendace, and post the names. Good to be able to follow up with them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Have one of these near you? Check the map. Closest one is 200 miles away,and them folk are touched by the sun as we say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Ah to live in the nation's capital. We got two downtown. Both next to the White House. Maybe I'll ride by tomorrow and start some ****. Egg them or something. Better yet, add some dildos to the memorial. Hmmm, sounds like I plan. I'll make sure to take pictures. Also, I love how this clown tried to out like some badass freedom fighter and they've now hijacked his death to make him some unarmed, hands-in-the-air ****. He's probably spinning in grave right now. Edited February 6, 2016 by BornaSkinsFan83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Ah to live in the nation's capital. We got two downtown. Both next to the White House. Maybe I'll ride by tomorrow and start some ****. Egg them or something. Better yet, add some dildos to the memorial. Hmmm, sounds like I plan. I'll make sure to take pictures. Also, I love how this clown tried to out like some badass freedom fighter and they've now hijacked his death to make him some unarmed, hands-in-the-air ****. He's probably spinning in grave right now. If you throw something at them you're likely to get shot. Just go ask them if they want some snacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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