PFT: Report: Snyder, Allen may side with RG3 and fire Gruden

[Rskins06]

What has Gruden done? 

 

What single thing about this team is at all good because of Gruden? 

  

The only positives Gruden has had since he got here are soundbites from the training camp and people who liked his tough attitude on Hard Knocks. Hell, he was known to have his offenses choke in the playoffs even when the Bengals were good under him, and he couldn't find a way to utilize AJ Green, so I never thought he was a great offensive mind to being with.

Offense is in the top 10, without Rob starting, team averages over 20 points a game, with Rob, team averages 13 points per game. This offense is MUCH better than last year (common denominator of last year and this year......Rob!) Even with a HORRIBLE OL, a competent QB scores points.

I am not saying he is a great HC, but if you believe this has anything to do with anything other than Rob, I would have to disagree with you (which is ok, we all have opinions).

This team is not far from being competitive, ST is better than last year, Defense has played better in some games (I still think Haz needs to be gone) but is nowhere near where it needs to be (need safety help and DL help) and the offense is an OL and competent QB play away from being very good.

[Sekhmet187]

Didn't want to quote your entire post. Rob has definitely not helped his cause and is playing very poorly and you are correct, he is NOT a franchise QB. However, if you don't believe he is becoming a cancer in the locker room, I would have to disagree with you. IF (I say IF) this story is true (most stories which have came out recently seem to be more true than false) then it shows a player having more control (perceived or not) than a HC, if you don't think that splits a locker room I would definitely disagree.

No, Rob has not started this story, but this "drama" has everything to do with him. Ever since his rookie season, it has ALWAYS been about him.

I also agree it is a media issue, we don't truly know what is going on in the background, what we do know is Rob is Dan Snyders BFF, Bruce Allens job may hang in the balance depending on Robs success or failure and we have a HC who wants to move on from Rob (happens to be the 2nd HC to want this) and may get fired over it.

 

Its always been about "him" because you look at him, you talk about him, you listen to stories about him, you click links about him and you supported media that talked about him. No, it is NOT on RGIII. If the media didn't talk about him all the time and fans didn't ask about him all the time, or blame him, you bring him up, it wouldn't be a story.

 

Is Tim Tebow still the most popular guy on ESPN? No, because people stopped talking about him, so the media stopped reporting about him and now he is not a big story. These stories keep popping up because fans will always believe part of it and discuss it and disect it because they just know hes a growing problem and that he needs to go, despite the fact that none of this is coming from the Locker room. 

 

These stories that are being leaked, are either by reporters making it up or people involved int he coaching staff or front office and none of their jobs are effected by RGIII right now.

 

I can't stress this point enough. All the "hype" RGIII had, all the talk thats going on now etc. is perpetuated and started by fans and media. Its a circle that feeds into each other, and yes RGIII didn't try and stop it, but he is not the one creating it.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

What's also funny is that the same ppl screaming "OMG RG3 only got 4 games!!!" are really quick to dismiss Jay after 12...

[Sekhmet187]

Offense is in the top 10, without Rob starting, team averages over 20 points a game, with Rob, team averages 13 points per game. This offense is MUCH better than last year (common denominator of last year and this year......Rob!) Even with a HORRIBLE OL, a competent QB scores points.

I am not saying he is a great HC, but if you believe this has anything to do with anything other than Rob, I would have to disagree with you (which is ok, we all have opinions).

This team is not far from being competitive, ST is better than last year, Defense has played better in some games (I still think Haz needs to be gone) but is nowhere near where it needs to be (need safety help and DL help) and the offense is an OL and competent QB play away from being very good.

 

That HORRIBLE OL is the same OL that Gruden thinks is fine, as he just said recently himself.

 

Gruden was also brought into Washington to coach up the QBs. How has the QB play been? Oh right, he quit on both Cousins and RGIII and neither of them progressed or played the least bit better than they had in the past. 

 

Those are failures on Gruden's part that has nothing to do with Allen picking his players (And Allen is the man responsible for giving him DJax and all those big plays that have put the offense in scoring range to begin with).

 

If Gruden was doing something successful, the team wouldn't be dysfunctional and wouldn't have failed in the areas they were looking to improve. What the Redskins actually do well this season are the same things they have been able to do well for the last couple of years anyway (Morris and the run game) outside of the big play, which again, is mostly just Jackson.

[Garcon More Wine]

they need to keep allen as a figurehead / name controversy guy / ice cream social planner, and hire a real GM that is on board with the type of schemes that gruden is trying to implement.

 

and hire rex ryan as DC.  as a DC i think he had one year that he wasnt top 10 and he will be available this season.

[War Paint]

Offense is in the top 10, without Rob starting, team averages over 20 points a game, with Rob, team averages 13 points per game. This offense is MUCH better than last year (common denominator of last year and this year......Rob!) Even with a HORRIBLE OL, a competent QB scores points.

 

Do you think that maybe this is because Robert doesn't fit this system very well?  The type of system matters.  This system doesn't play to Robert's strengths.   Gruden was a terrible hire by the front office. 

[jkthepresident]

Do you think that maybe this is because Robert doesn't fit this system very well?  The type of system matters.  This system doesn't play to Robert's strengths.   Gruden was a terrible hire by the front office. 

But isn't this what Robert wanted? To play in the pocket and drop back like Peyton?

[War Paint]

What's also funny is that the same ppl screaming "OMG RG3 only got 4 games!!!" are really quick to dismiss Jay after 12...

That's because Jay looks completely in over his head.  Even if Robert gets shipped off somewhere this offseason, I don't think Gruden is the answer going forward.   I haven't seen anything that shows me this team is going in the right direction.  Absolutely nothing.  Even Zorn managed to go 8-8 his first season.

 

For a rookie head coach, you kind of expect a slow start, but you want to see some sort of improvement as the season progresses.  There is no improvement.  It's just turning into more of a clown show.

But isn't this what Robert wanted? To play in the pocket and drop back like Peyton?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Some reports said that's what he wanted.  Some said he's still willing to use his legs.  What source do you want to believe?

[Rskins06]

These stories that are being leaked, are either by reporters making it up or people involved int he coaching staff or front office and none of their jobs are effected by RGIII right now.

"Report: Snyder, Allen may side with RG3 and fire Gruden"

This story would seem to go against your last statement. That is the whole premise of my conversation, IF (I say again IF) this story is true, then this is worse than anyone thought. Rob has not EARNED the right to choose who is the HC and who isn't the HC. No, this is not Robs fault, I blame DS and BA for allowing this perception in the first place.

Make no mistake, someone is going to lose their jobs because of Rob......again. But you are right, this has nothing to do with Rob.

[Sekhmet187]

But isn't this what Robert wanted? To play in the pocket and drop back like Peyton?

 

Who cares what Robert wanted? Its not the coaches or GMs job to give a player what they want. Even RGIII isn't going to say he wants a coach to just give him what he wants. The whole thing about him and his dad wanting him to focus as a passer is a statement made out of the fact that most critics thought he couldn't do it and he wanted to be able to prove them wrong, doesn't mean he wanted a system built around not using his abilities at all. 

 

Hell, the system he plays in didn't even have him roll out on bootlegs.

"Report: Snyder, Allen may side with RG3 and fire Gruden"

This story would seem to go against your last statement. That is the whole premise of my conversation, IF (I say again IF) this story is true, then this is worse than anyone thought. Rob has not EARNED the right to choose who is the HC and who isn't the HC. No, this is not Robs fault, I blame DS and BA for allowing this perception in the first place.

Make no mistake, someone is going to lose their jobs because of Rob......again. But you are right, this has nothing to do with Rob.

 

Thats a story. Based around an unnamed source that said "Gruden might be one and done". THAT IS ALL.

 

The author who wrote the article just based everything else on whatever he wanted to base it on, but its all built around a source saying that Gruden  might get the axe. No mention of RGIII at all.

 

And if you have noticed, so far all year most stories the media has put out there have been "snyder wants RGIII", just like when RGIII started over Colt the media put out articles claiming it was because Snyder wanted it. Now that RGIII is benched, suddenly Gruden might get fired because of it? If Snyder could make Gruden start RGIII one game, why couldn't he make him do it all season? None of it makes sense because its just the media using perceptions of Snyder to get clicks and viewership.

[Rskins06]

Do you think that maybe this is because Robert doesn't fit this system very well?  The type of system matters.  This system doesn't play to Robert's strengths.   Gruden was a terrible hire by the front office.

Yes, I don't think Rob fits into this system (or any NFL offense). I believe Gruden believed he could put a system together that plays to Robs strengths, however, I don't believe he expected Rob to be so RAW and look so BAD trying to learn his system. Rob wanted to move away from a college offense, Rob didn't want to run anymore, but without a lot of improvement, Rob won't be an NFL QB much longer either.

[Aireskoi]

Oh, please. "Vile"? Really? 

 

You made YOUR OWN definition of just exactly WHAT Griffin tweets this article was referencing and then you go after Gruden based on THAT definition. Not based on fact of any kind.

 

Maybe he was rolling his eyes at the same things so many of us have rolled our eyes over: "All in for Week One." "Operation Patience." "Know Your Why," executive producer of his own documentary after ONE season, etc. It's all sanctimonious, televangelist-level, nonsensical spewage from a guy who created his own logo, in his words, as a "way to give something back to my fans."

 

"Oh, my wonderful fans. Here. Let me give back. Here's my logo, specially designed ... for you."  

 

I was rolling my eyes at that phony, narcissistic nonsense when it happened, and I'm sure it's THAT kind of thing that's gotten under Gruden's skin, not some innocuous scripture quoting. 

 

I like Gruden at the moment. I like his approach. At the very LEAST, his blunt honesty is an incredible breath of fresh air in this sewer-based, bottom-feeding franchise. Come to think of it, no wonder he doesn't fit in here. 

 

Dropping the hammer!!

 

I think some would get a great benefit from reading how pissed Raiders fans were at Tom Cable when he benched Russell.  They blamed everyone except the name on the back of their brand new #2 jerseys. 

 

Tom Cable is the Assistant HC, Offensive Line Coach with the Seahawks since 2011, he has a ring.  

 

J. Russell is a star of Dish Network's commercials about NFL busts that were great in college.  Bet Dish has RG3's future commercials on the drafting board now.  "I can go back to college?"

[Garcon More Wine]

That HORRIBLE OL is the same OL that Gruden thinks is fine, as he just said recently himself.

 

Gruden was also brought into Washington to coach up the QBs. How has the QB play been? Oh right, he quit on both Cousins and RGIII and neither of them progressed or played the least bit better than they had in the past. 

 

Those are failures on Gruden's part that has nothing to do with Allen picking his players (And Allen is the man responsible for giving him DJax and all those big plays that have put the offense in scoring range to begin with).

 

If Gruden was doing something successful, the team wouldn't be dysfunctional and wouldn't have failed in the areas they were looking to improve. What the Redskins actually do well this season are the same things they have been able to do well for the last couple of years anyway (Morris and the run game) outside of the big play, which again, is mostly just Jackson.

 

how did he quit on them??  have you seen them play?  cousins throws 3 INTs a game, cannot win a game.  and griffin isnt even worth talking about, he looks like hes a highschool QB playing at the NFL level.

 

how do you explain to the other 52 guys "yeah im just gonna let these buffoons go run the offense, and lose us games, because i want to see them develop".  and these are 3 year players, neither are rookies as much as people want to pretend they are.

 

colt (as much as we all want to mock, myself included) has looked solid running grudens scheme.  is he winning us a superbowl?  no.  can he keep us competitive?  absolutely, and thats all we can do at the moment.  and we could have joe montana and jerry rice in the offensive scheme: still arent going to win with these defense, they are THAT terrible.

 

shanahan got 4 years, three of them looked like this:

 

6-10

5-11

3-13

 

talk about giving people a chance, and want gruden fired after 12 games.  cmon

[War Paint]

Yes, I don't think Rob fits into this system (or any NFL offense). I believe Gruden believed he could put a system together that plays to Robs strengths, however, I don't believe he expected Rob to be so RAW and look so BAD trying to learn his system. Rob wanted to move away from a college offense, Rob didn't want to run anymore, but without a lot of improvement, Rob won't be an NFL QB much longer either.

I haven't seen any evidence that Gruden tried to build a system catering to Robert's strengths.  I see Gruden doing what has plagued many of our other coaches.  They always try to fit square pegs into round holes.  College concepts are coming to the NFL all the time.  Even the Patriots run spread concepts.

 

Also, Robert ran Shanahan's offense fine in 2012.  The 2012 offense was simply Mike Shanahan's zone scheme with a mix of college concepts.

[jkthepresident]

Who cares what Robert wanted? Its not the coaches or GMs job to give a player what they want. Even RGIII isn't going to say he wants a coach to just give him what he wants. The whole thing about him and his dad wanting him to focus as a passer is a statement made out of the fact that most critics thought he couldn't do it and he wanted to be able to prove them wrong, doesn't mean he wanted a system built around not using his abilities at all. 

 

Hell, the system he plays in didn't even have him roll out on bootlegs.

I agree not running bootlegs at all is absurd, but you can't run bootlegs for every pass play. Eventually you have to drop back and make some throws. Robert looks totally incapable of doing that and that's extremely troubling. He's missing basic things that some QBs in college can do.

 

Re-watching that Bucs and 49ers games, it's hard for me to put a majority of the blame on Jay when Rob just looks plain awful out there.

[Rskins06]

Thats a story. Based around an unnamed source that said "Gruden might be one and done". THAT IS ALL.

 

The author who wrote the article just based everything else on whatever he wanted to base it on, but its all built around a source saying that Gruden  might get the axe. No mention of RGIII at all.

 

And if you have noticed, so far all year most stories the media has put out there have been "snyder wants RGIII", just like when RGIII started over Colt the media put out articles claiming it was because Snyder wanted it. Now that RGIII is benched, suddenly Gruden might get fired because of it? If Snyder could make Gruden start RGIII one game, why couldn't he make him do it all season? None of it makes sense because its just the media using perceptions of Snyder to get clicks and viewership.

Like I said, IF, IF, IF this story is true. Now, I don't believe this is about Gruden benching Rob this season, I think it is because Gruden would like to move on WITHOUT Rob on the team and his preference would be to cut sling load with Rob. That is where I believe this story has merit, maybe DS and BA agreed to benching him, but do not support getting rid of him! The lines may be drawn, DS and BA want Rob to play next year and Gruden wants him off the team. Like I said, Grudedn doesn't get fired for benching him this year, he gets fired because he doesn't want Rob on the team next year. As it stands, seems this is the 2nd HC in consecutive years who would prefer to leave than have Rob start another game.

I would agree, I may be COMPLETELY WRONG (which is ok, been wrong many times) with this, however, you have to agree, you may be COMPLETELY WRONG as well. Only select people know the true story and they aren't posting here on ES........are they?

[Sekhmet187]

how did he quit on them??  have you seen them play?  cousins throws 3 INTs a game, cannot win a game.  and griffin isnt even worth talking about, he looks like hes a highschool QB playing at the NFL level.

 

how do you explain to the other 52 guys "yeah im just gonna let these buffoons go run the offense, and lose us games, because i want to see them develop".  and these are 3 year players, neither are rookies as much as people want to pretend they are.

 

colt (as much as we all want to mock, myself included) has looked solid running grudens scheme.  is he winning us a superbowl?  no.  can he keep us competitive?  absolutely, and thats all we can do at the moment.  and we could have joe montana and jerry rice in the offensive scheme: still arent going to win with these defense, they are THAT terrible.

 

shanahan got 4 years, three of them looked like this:

 

6-10

5-11

3-13

 

talk about giving people a chance, and want gruden fired after 12 games.  cmon

 

First of all, Shanny has nothing to do with this.

 

Secondly, part of my point is that Gruden came into improve the level of play of the QBs. You just pointed out that it didn't work.

 

Thirdly, it IS quitting on players to play thee different QBs multiple games in the same season when they are all basically healthy. Cousins throwing INT's is technically correctable with proper coaching.

 

You bring up Cousins and Griffin being 3 year players, but what does that mean if a few of them are in a totally new offense? Peyton wasn't that good his first year in Denver, did they give up on him and think it was a mistake? No. and he was a vet. I'm not saying he shouldn't have given up on them because they are young, I'm saying he gave up on them because they are young and in a new offense and that could easily attribute to some of their issues. And I'm not even saying Colt isn't the better QB, just that Gruden put one guy in then another guy then another guy and now another guy.

 

Besides, Gruden doesn't have to get fired, I am just saying I understand why he could be. He has done a horrible job and doesn't look like an NFL calibre Head Coach.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

This is rather difficult to comprehend, if Snyder chooses RGIII over Grudes then we are forever screwed. No one will want to coach this mess in 2015. 

 

Should of gone to Waco and not Cincy to begin with.

 

This QB needed a HC who believed in him 100 % and would adapt to him.

 

Hail.

 

*Edit* Oh, and for the record, the sooner Gruden is out of here the better.

[DC9]

I'd be fine with this story if it read "Dan may fire Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden" and it mentions nothing about Griffin.

 

How do you keep a guy at GM who costs you $20 mil on a coach and how do you give a guy who has missed on personnel like this another shot at a Head Coach?

 

This team is a ****ing mess.  God save them.

[Sekhmet187]

I agree not running bootlegs at all is absurd, but you can't run bootlegs for every pass play. Eventually you have to drop back and make some throws. Robert looks totally incapable of doing that and that's extremely troubling. He's missing basic things that some QBs in college can do.

 

Re-watching that Bucs and 49ers games, it's hard for me to put a majority of the blame on Jay when Rob just looks plain awful out there.

 

It doesn't have to be every pass play, but can you say they even run two? If he throws 20-30 times a game, it would be wise to maybe at least have a handful of them be bootlegs, but they didn't even call any, that I can remember anyway. Thats bad play-calling. Russell Wilson, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers and many others have great success on bootlegs, yet they didn't even try those with RGIII. Thats incredibly stupid.

[jkthepresident]

It doesn't have to be every pass play, but can you say they even run two? If he throws 20-30 times a game, it would be wise to maybe at least have a handful of them be bootlegs, but they didn't even call any, that I can remember anyway. Thats bad play-calling. Russell Wilson, Tony romoSUCKS, Aaron Rodgers and many others have great success on bootlegs, yet they didn't even try those with RGIII. Thats incredibly stupid.

Like I said, I agree that it is foolish, but those three guys can also drop back and throw. Rob can't. That's not good.

[IHOPSkins]

The cesspool of reporting continues to be a feeding frenzy of rumormillology

 

Like the class clown, we are targeted for any tidbit of BS...which is milked in the DC media hyped environment

 

Time to humbly STHU and walk....WALK in the right direction

[DC9]

Should of gone to Waco and not Cincy to begin with.

 

This QB needed a HC who believed in him 100 % and would adapt to him.

 

Hail.

 

*Edit* Oh, and for the record, the sooner Gruden is out of here the better.

 

I'm saving this post. 

 

You know I love you, big brother... but catering to ONE player who has reportedly alienated the locker room from multiple sources in multiple outlets - what do you think that does in terms of players who are already here and getting players to come here?

[Rskins06]

I haven't seen any evidence that Gruden tried to build a system catering to Robert's strengths.  I see Gruden doing what has plagued many of our other coaches.  They always try to fit square pegs into round holes.  College concepts are coming to the NFL all the time.  Even the Patriots run spread concepts.

 

Also, Robert ran Shanahan's offense fine in 2012.  The 2012 offense was simply Mike Shanahan's zone scheme with a mix of college concepts.

Rob ran a spread offense (pistol formation) in 2012, yes, he looked very good, but, he was not required to read anything, yes again, it was combined with MS zone scheme. The offense was designed so Rob didn't have to think. Then, he got hurt and didn't want to run anymore, he wanted to be an "Aaron Rogers" (his words) type QB. He no longer can run, he no longer scares ANY DC in the NFL, they all know if you take away his first read or put pressure on him, he folds and takes too many sacks. He is not 20% of what he was in 2012 and that 20% is not good enough to play in the NFL.

If you don't think Jay tried to change his offense, you obviously didn't watch the Minn, TB or SF game, he called a lot of read option plays, tried to get the ball out of Robs hands quicker, guess what, it failed. Rob is a couple years away from being a competent QB in this league.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd be fine with this story if it read "Dan may fire Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden" and it mentions nothing about Griffin.

 

How do you keep a guy at GM who costs you $20 mil on a coach and how do you give a guy who has missed on personnel like this another shot at a Head Coach?

 

This team is a ****ing mess.  God save them.

 

A-freaking men.

 

Keep Bruce as a figure head. But relinquish him of ALL football responsibilities and bring in a strong willed guy with absolutely ZERO allegiance to this organisation or those under it's employ with a PROVEN track record of being a winning GM in this league.

 

If he then wants to keep Gruden, so be it. But I have a feeling the WHOLE coaching staff would be out on their ass. AS they ALL should be.

 

As regards 10, if you decide to exercise the option on him, he comes back into camp next year being FULLY aware that he's the same as EVERYONE on this team and has to win his roster spot fair and square.

 

This **** needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW!

 

Hail.