Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Andy Dalton- Starts: 48 Wins: 30 Passes: 1,630 TD Passes: 80 INT: 49 Passer Rating: 85.7 Postseason W-L: 0-3 Peyton Manning- Starts: 48 Wins: 26 Passes: 1,679 TD Passes: 85 INT: 58 Passer Rating: 85.4 Postseason W-L: 0-2 Discuss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 yeah those are some pretty cool stats. he is a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 yeah those are some pretty cool stats. he is a good player. They showed those stats during the Sunday night game a bit ago. Definitely a wake up call for many, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I've been on this for awhile, glad to see people are starting to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Those stats help to throw water on the 'only an Elite Quarterback can Win a Superbowl' talk. Â Any team with a Championship Level Defense, that gets competent play from its Special Teams AND solid Quarterbacking (and production from its entire Offensive unit) can compete for all the marbles. Â If Cincy can get that initial Postseason Win, they could go all the way. Â Entirely plausible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Those stats help to throw water on the 'only an Elite Quarterback can Win a Superbowl' talk. Â Any team with a Championship Level Defense, that gets competent play from its Special Teams AND solid Quarterbacking (and production from its entire Offensive unit) can compete for all the marbles. Â If Cincy can get that initial Postseason Win, they could go all the way. Â Entirely plausible to me. So, the proof that you can win a Super Bowl without a top-notch Qb is a team without a top-notch QB that hasn't yet won a playoff game? And this is further proved by the not top notch QB having similar stats to the greatest QB of all-time? Â I'll pass on commenting, but I'm going to have to call in a friend to judge you: Â Â OK, that seemed harsh. I apologize on her behalf. Let's see if she'll say she's sorry: Â Â Well, I think that's the closest you'll get to an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I won't resort to insulting you because you disagreed with my view.  But Seattle Winning The Super Bowl (to me) indicates that a non 'Elite Quarterback' can bring your team the ultimate prize.  This is my view, for clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I won't resort to insulting you because you disagreed with my view.  But Seattle Winning The Super Bowl (to me) indicates that a non 'Elite Quarterback' can bring your team the ultimate prize.  This is my view, for clarity. Maybe, but that has nothing to do with telling everyone that Andy Dalton's stats have anything to do with that argument.  Do you agree with me, Scarlett?   Thanks.   OK, we can talk about that later.  Again, I apologize for her behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Okay fine.  But in plain terms, do I think Andy Dalton can Win a Super Bowl?  Sure.  Cincinnati's no joke--and their Front Office is smart enough to realize that dumping him to trade up may not be in their best interest.   Look, I don't want a league where only six guys' teams have any realistic shot of Winning The Super Bowl.  I despise the term "basketball on grass."  I prefer the NFL remain a league where the best teams can Win it all.  Not just a team with a great player at one position.   In this regard, Dalton plays for a tough, young contender.  And yes, if it all fell right for the Bengals, they could Win it.   That's ludicrous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Okay fine.  But in plain terms, do I think Andy Dalton can Win a Super Bowl?  Sure.  Cincinnati's no joke--and their Front Office is smart enough to realize that dumping him to trade up may not be in their best interest.   Look, I don't want a league where only six guys' teams have any realistic shot of Winning The Super Bowl.  I despise the term "basketball on grass."  I prefer the NFL remain a league where the best teams can Win it all.  Not just a team with a great player at one position.   In this regard, Dalton plays for a tough, young contender.  And yes, if it all fell right for the Bengals, they could Win it.   That's ludicrous? It's not ludicrous, because "it" doesn't exist, frankly. You're basically saying you hope he'll win, so therefore he will. And that, I guess, proves that a guy like him could win? There's no argument to call ludicrous, because I don't see an argument at all. Right, SJ?   Never mind, she's obviously not paying attention anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RG3Gruden Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I won't resort to insulting you because you disagreed with my view. But Seattle Winning The Super Bowl (to me) indicates that a non 'Elite Quarterback' can bring your team the ultimate prize. This is my view, for clarity. Russell Wilson is not only elite, but he is far and away the best young qb in the nfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Russell Wilson is not only elite, but he is far and away the best young qb in the nfl Andrew Luck would like to have a word with you. And Rufus. No need for the insults, bro. If you disagree with the OP, fine. But nothing he said warranted the responses you've given. By the way: you're knocking Dalton for being 0-3 in the playoffs. It took Peyton 6 years to win a playoff game. Just saying.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Okay fine. But in plain terms, do I think Andy Dalton can Win a Super Bowl? Sure. Cincinnati's no joke--and their Front Office is smart enough to realize that dumping him to trade up may not be in their best interest. Look, I don't want a league where only six guys' teams have any realistic shot of Winning The Super Bowl. I despise the term "basketball on grass." I prefer the NFL remain a league where the best teams can Win it all. Not just a team with a great player at one position. In this regard, Dalton plays for a tough, young contender. And yes, if it all fell right for the Bengals, they could Win it. That's ludicrous? Not ludicrous at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Not ludicrous at all. Thank you sir. Â We can certainly disagree without the extra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I think the issue is that the Colts were a terrible team when Peyton was drafted by them, while the Bengals were not. The Colts had, at best a one dimensional Defense (could never stop the run) and not much of a running attack on offense. Peyton was shouldering much more of the load to get his teams a victory than Any ever has had to do. Can Any win a SB? Sure, but to be honest, for him to get there it's going to take more of a team effort than Andy putting the team on his back and carrying them to the SB. Much like Russell Wilson, if you have a great defense and a strong running game, guys like Trent Dilfer can get a ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Can Any win a SB? Sure, but to be honest, for him to get there it's going to take more of a team effort than Andy putting the team on his back and carrying them to the SB. Much like Russell Wilson, if you have a great defense and a strong running game, guys like Trent Dilfer can get a ring. Agree 100%. Â Again, for any team to get to The Super Bowl, they have to not only be a strong squad overall, but also catch all the breaks. Â If Cincy(hypothetically) stayed healthy, got career years from a couple or several key players, and benefitted from a ridiculous Turnover Differential, then yes - They are capable of Winning it. Â Â But so are 9 other teams, if any of them benefitted from all of those same variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Assuming that this is a comparison of Manning first three years and Dalton's first three right? One thought is it was a different league back then, stats have been greatly exagerated from 1998 to 2011 Another thought is the Bengals were a better team then the Colts were when they arrived Another one is Dalton was paired with a top five receiver before he was ever drafted. I wonder if we would be having this discussion if Green was not drafted a round before Dalton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 I think the issue is that the Colts were a terrible team when Peyton was drafted by them, while the Bengals were not. . The Bengals were 4-12 the season before Dalton arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Assuming that this is a comparison of Manning first three years and Dalton's first three right? One thought is it was a different league back then, stats have been greatly exagerated from 1998 to 2011 Another thought is the Bengals were a better team then the Colts were when they arrived Another one is Dalton was paired with a top five receiver before he was ever drafted. I wonder if we would be having this discussion if Green was not drafted a round before Dalton? Yes, first 3 seasons.And Green and Dalton arrived the same year. Which makes his success that much greater, not the other way around, as you're making it seem. They won 9 games their first season. And have averaged 10 a season in 3 years. It seems as if you're giving all of the credit to Green. Which is absurd. By the way, let's not pretend that Peyton had no WR's in his early years. I guess Marvin Harrison is a nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 And Rufus. No need for the insults, bro. If you disagree with the OP, fine. But nothing he said warranted the responses you've given.  Yeah, I was clearly just having fun with what is, to be frank, a perfectly silly thread. If I wanted to attack someone, I wouldn't do it with a gif of ScarJo saying they looked like a fart, apologize and then post a gif of her blowing a kiss. I kind of suspect you know that, but let's assume everyone is really this super-sensitive and I'll say I'm sorry and that I wish I could buy you all ice cream and give you a pat on the tushie.  As for the OP, I genuinely assumed it was a joke, because- not to hurt anyone's feelings- it fell well short of being, well, good.  To start with, if you're purporting to school all of Andy Dalton's doubters, you might want to address, you know, the actual doubts about him. There is simply no one out there complaining that he doesn't have some good stats. What people ARE saying is that he's surrounded with superior talent (he is), his play drops off a cliff in the playoffs (it  does) and that he fails under pressure (in fact, Grantland had a statistical breakdown that showed him to be among the absolute worst under pressure in the whole league, Blaine Gabbert is better). So, posting those stats didn't refute, address or even hint at an actual counter to the questions about Dalton, even though the title implied it was going to destroy them.  Secondly, everyone knows Peyton Manning had a statistically terrible rookie season, which probably had a lot to do with the team around him. That doesn't mean every QB who has a decent rookie year is his equal or superior. Using those numbers as a basis for comparison is a textbook misleading argument, at best. If you really feel good about that line of argument, I invite you to go over to the Stadium and start a thread comparing Manning's first two years to RG3's. Since Griffin's stats annihilate Manning's, your conclusion has to be that Griffin's eventual spot as the greatest QB of all-time, by far, is a forgone conclusion. Go ahead, I'll wait.  Really, I thought you were kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirLK26 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 The Bengals were 4-12 the season before Dalton arrived. You can look at that this way, too: the Bengals were 4-12 the season before Jay Gruden arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Peyton lost to Jay Fieldler in the playoffs and got stomped 41-0 by the Jets in his 2nd and 3rd playoff seasons, which were well into his career. Even the best of the best can have trouble winning the big games early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasSkinsFan Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Yes, first 3 seasons. And Green and Dalton arrived the same year. Which makes his success that much greater, not the other way around, as you're making it seem. They won 9 games their first season. And have averaged 10 a season in 3 years. It seems as if you're giving all of the credit to Green. Which is absurd. By the way, let's not pretend that Peyton had no WR's in his early years. I guess Marvin Harrison is a nobody.  I am confused here....did I not say which you quoted yourself  "Another one is Dalton was paired with a top five receiver before he was ever drafted"  I am not unaware who Andy Dalton is, I live in Fort Worth Texas, TCU is a college I am very familiar with. When Dalton was drafted in the second round of the 2011 draft this city was stunned. Locals here did not think he was that good when he played here and did not think that he would have been drafted that high. It was shocking to most of us.  He and Green have been excellent together since they both joined the league at the same time. Green was completely different then Dalton in that everyone expected him to be great. He was drafted number 4 overall that draft. Him being a top 5 NFL receiver was not unexpected like Dalton. No one thought Andy Dalton was going to become a 4000 yard passer before he got to Cincinnati.  I guess it is a bit of the chicken or the egg to me. Would AJ Green still be an elite receiver if Dalton were to be lost to a season ending injury? I think so. On the other hand if AJ Green was lost for an entire season would Andy Dalton still be a probowl QB? I don't think so. Hopefully we never have to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarco Murray 29 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Dalton is the Tony Romo of the AFC. Â Will have a solid season, with a solid supporting cast. But when you need him to win the game in the playoffs, he just doesn't get the job done. Or, in Romo's case, week 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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