Larry Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 Well, assuming that's true, then it casts things in a different light. Not so much a desperate mother, putting her baby in a basket and setting adrift in the river, in the desperate hopes that someone else will give him a better home, so much as shipping the kid off to Aunt Gladys'. Although it also rather implies that said kids do have people who will take care of them, too. Thus, hopefully being much less burden on society. (Wonder if Aunt Gladys gets paid, for caring for the "foster child".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (Wonder if Aunt Gladys gets paid, for caring for the "foster child".) yes, the child's care is provided..... there are even cases where they are released to illegal immigrant parents here that were the ones paying to have them smuggled here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2661062/EXCLUSIVE-Illegal-immigrant-children-released-HUNDREDS-relatives-US-illegally-claims-HHS-official.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The best part of all of this is how it demonstrates the complete ineptitude of our politicians. If you gave this problem to a run of the mill project manager, they'd probably see something like: 1. Broken law + 2. Broken message from POTUS = 3. Illegal population 1 - How is it broken? This is where people start to fall apart because most Americans don't actually know how the immigration system works. 2 - The problem isn't the message. The problem, in my opinion, is that immigration in the US is designed to allow the current situation. I don't believe this is an accident. Politicians are trying to appease people without actually stopping illegal immigration because there are benefits to a large unskilled labor pool. If it's an accident than we'd have to accept that politicians are all stupid. We know that at least on the federal level most are not all stupid. I'm sure their staff that actually writes legislation is probably much smarter than the average. That program manager would then: 1. Fix the law, so we don't provide exemptions to people we can't support 2. Change the message, to reinforce that people who come here illegally will be deported, and 3. Work over time to follow the previous law and/or deport these people (depending on the new law). People act like border security is rocket science. It isn't. It's a political failure of D's and R's who want power more than they want to do good things for our country. 1 - Fix the law how? Immigration is a system, not a law, and that entire system including the ultimate goal of our immigration stance has to be taken into account. Also "people we can't support"? The US isn't buckling under the weight of illegal immigration. The people arguing it is like to pretend they don't put anything into the system, that they only take out. That's simply not true. 2 - That message is hilariously ineffective. You're going to threaten people that are desperate with the risk of being sent back should they be caught? If you want to send a message that will work this is what you want: "It's not easy to get in and if you do the odds of you finding any employment at all are minimal." Remove the US as likely solution to whatever they are trying to change in their lives. Also provide a legal means to apply that isn't a complete waste of their time, which is what "get in line" actually means. There is no real line for unskilled labor. 3 - Work over time? Do you realize the current immigration system is jammed tight and resources are at their limits? It's odd how many people talk as if immigration holding cells are all sitting empty and ICE agents are surfing the net to kill time. Bush had the right idea. The entire system needs to be over hauled in order to get something that might work. Then again, I suspect that Bush actually understood the US immigration system so he wasn't coming at the problem from a position of ignorance. I mean no insult, just to be clear, only that it's a great deal more complicated than it seems and that most aren't familiar with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Someday we will realize there are a few wars we can't win, no matter the amount of time and money spent on them. The war on drugs and the war on foreigners are two that come to mind immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Someday we will realize there are a few wars we can't win, no matter the amount of time and money spent on them. The war on drugs and the war on foreigners are two that come to mind immediately. "War on foreigners" is ugly, I'd avoid using that expression unless you want to invite a misunderstanding or intend on offending people. I don't think you intended to insult anyone I'm just offering some friendly advice and mean no insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 "War on foreigners" is ugly, I'd avoid using that expression unless you want to invite a misunderstanding or intend on offending people. I don't think you intended to insult anyone I'm just offering some friendly advice and mean no insult. None taken. I intentionally used it in a "ugly" manner because it's a "war" that I don't really agree with. I think there has to be a better way to deal with people coming to our country looking for an opportunity than to send them home. Especially children. Nurture them and encourage them to become upstanding citizens by showing empathy. Don't make the children hate the processes of this country (read: "the man") by turning them into political pawns. And no. I am not well versed with what is ACTUALLY happening and I don't know what we should really do with illegal or undocumented children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_N_Chief Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 None taken. I intentionally used it in a "ugly" manner because it's a "war" that I don't really agree with. I think there has to be a better way to deal with people coming to our country looking for an opportunity than to send them home. Especially children. Nurture them and encourage them to become upstanding citizens by showing empathy. Don't make the children hate the processes of this country (read: "the man") by turning them into political pawns. With all due respect, why should it be on my dime or other tax payer's dime that we pay for their choices to come here illegally. I am in complete agreance that the immigration system is flawed and laws in place give false hope of a better life to those whom cross but why should we be forced to give them said life? They are children, they are also by definition crimals the second they step foot across the border. If you are saying send military action to help clean up their countries, I would still disagree but atleast you're making an attempt to solve the problem with a solution not providing a crutch to the current situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 With all due respect, why should it be on my dime or other tax payer's dime that we pay for their choices to come here illegally. I am in complete agreance that the immigration system is flawed and laws in place give false hope of a better life to those whom cross but why should we be forced to give them said life? They are children, they are also by definition crimals the second they step foot across the border. Just get on the 1% boat then you wont have to worry about it being on your dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_N_Chief Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Just get on the 1% boat then you wont have to worry about it being on your dime. :thumbs up: I would also like to know if children once found are being medically cleared before being fostered in our country. Also does anyone know if Va knew about the kids being fostered in PWC before it happened? If not, seems the federal government got tired of being turned down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 With all due respect, why should it be on my dime or other tax payer's dime that we pay for their choices to come here illegally. I am in complete agreance that the immigration system is flawed and laws in place give false hope of a better life to those whom cross but why should we be forced to give them said life? They are children, they are also by definition crimals the second they step foot across the border. If you are saying send military action to help clean up their countries, I would still disagree but atleast you're making an attempt to solve the problem with a solution not providing a crutch to the current situation Why should it be on your dime to provide for the elderly? To pay for a military to protect our country? To support those citizens incapable of working? To provide schooling for our youth?Because it's the right thing to do. This isn't political to me. It's humane. Also, since you're so concerned with how much it costs, another thought occurred to me. We are either paying to indoctrinate them into our society or we are paying to kick them out of it (simply stated). Considering you'll never be able to stop the plight of people from third world countries as long as the US is prosperous, it may be less expensive to let them stay here in the long run. Maybe, just maybe, if you're nice to them they will learn our language, our culture and be the people that you want them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_N_Chief Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Why should it be on your dime to provide for the elderly? To pay for a military to protect our country? To support those citizens incapable of working? To provide schooling for our youth Simple answer...because they are American[\b] citizens. It's not my job to pay for someone else's third world problem. It's funny how many people have a bleeding heart for them, yet refuse to allow them to stay in their state (see MD or Mass). I also agreed that the system in place is flawed which allows them to come over under false pretenses of being allowed to stay...though at current rate they are right. I'd much rather spend my money to find a system that keeps them out, then concentrate on our own for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Simple answer...because they are American[\b] citizens. It's not my job to pay for someone else's third world problem. It's funny how many people have a bleeding heart for them, yet refuse to allow them to stay in their state (see MD or Mass). I also agreed that the system in place is flawed which allows them to come over under false pretenses of being allowed to stay...though at current rate they are right. I'd much rather spend my money to find a system that keeps them out, then concentrate on our own for a change. Probably a different frame of mind. I don't think that a goal of keeping people out of this country is humane. We aren't special because we live here and many of us are just lucky that we were born here. Once they are here though, they are our problem unfortunately. I do agree that we need to focus on our own though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Probably a different frame of mind. I don't think that a goal of keeping people out of this country is humane. We aren't special because we live here and many of us are just lucky that we were born here. Once they are here though, they are our problem unfortunately. I do agree that we need to focus on our own though. So what do you suggest we do, allow everyone in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 We should just give everyone a condo, a weekly block of cheese and loaf of bread. Plus a little spending money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'd say we show compassion and open our homes to these children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 I'd say we show compassion and open our homes to these children. Well, supposedly, a lot of them are (being sent to homes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 What should be done to these kids who escape violence, poverty and abuse by travelling alone thousands of miles in order to seek out a better future for themselves? The same thing that we did to our grandfathers who did the same thing generations ago. Thank God the conservatives back then didn't get to enforce their ignorance upon our nation, and I pray their heirs don't get their way today. These kids are following in the great tradition of American immigrants, and we are treating them just the same as we have every other "dirty, diseased and poor" immigrant group in our nation's history. It's not only disgusting, but hypocritical. But it is good to know that America hasn't changed all that much throughout our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The same thing that we did to our grandfathers who did the same thing generations ago. Did we pay their way then too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Did we pay their way then too? No, we had churches and groups of people who actually cared that showed up to take them in. Too bad that the church folks today are more focused on sending them back. To paraphrase, "Love the immigrant in your land, for once you were immigrants in Egypt." If only we really were a Christian nation. Oh well, I guess it is just better to live with the illusion of being a Christian nation because we have "One nation under God" in our pledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 No, we had churches and groups of people who actually cared that showed up to take them in. Too bad that the church folks today are more focused on sending them back. To paraphrase, "Love the immigrant in your land, for once you were immigrants in Egypt." If only we really were a Christian nation. Oh well, I guess it is just better to live with the illusion of being a Christian nation because we have "One nation under God" in our pledge. Well I'd like to see us take care of our own first. People are quick to take care of others while we have plenty of our own who need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_N_Chief Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 No, we had churches and groups of people who actually cared that showed up to take them in. Too bad that the church folks today are more focused on sending them back. To paraphrase, "Love the immigrant in your land, for once you were immigrants in Egypt." If only we really were a Christian nation. Oh well, I guess it is just better to live with the illusion of being a Christian nation because we have "One nation under God" in our pledge. It's not a "godly" nation, as a majority it was decided to keep god out of government and nation wide issues. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Its not a matter of feeling empathy for these kids, it's a matter of who has to pay for them in all aspects:space/location, financial, health, education, etc etc. especially when we have our own right ere at home that need just as much assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 So what do you suggest we do, allow everyone in? I don't know. What I do know is that there isn't enough money in the world to stop people from coming into this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Did we pay their way then too? the way I remember it was they were forced to work themselves to a early death to enrich those here....ah the good old days of sweatshops and road gangs. or starve http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608006535698120834&pid=1.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Well I'd like to see us take care of our own first. People are quick to take care of others while we have plenty of our own who need help. What exactly does "our own" mean? As a Christian there are no national borders, this is the biggest mistake American Christians make, thinking that their compassion stops at a border. BTW, the only people in our country who are worse off than these kids are the homeless...I don't see long lines of folks standing in line to help them out either. The "help our own first" is a frickin' myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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