Shanahan and the Hall of Fame

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

wonder if hes on dans rader for HC?

Bit risky to employ the guy straight off the bat after he had a stroke mid-season.

 

By that criteria, doesn't Seifert have 3 or 4?

Not arguing nor defending him. Just saying he has three rings as a coach.

Hail.

[Dark Acre]

In considering that Elway lost 3 SBs before Shanahan, you have to consider that the Broncos lost those games during the '80s, when the NFC teams going to the SB were far, far better than the Broncos across the board.  Indeed, in those 3 losses, only S.F. had a marquee QB (some guy named Montana).  Simms was a good QB and Williams had a marvelous 2nd quarter.  However, all 3 NFC teams -- for you kids, in the mid-'80s to mid-'90s, the NFC Championship game was sarcastically considered the true SB because the AFC teams got beaten soundly -- were bigger, faster, and more physical than Denver.  Denver gave up 39, 42, and 55 points (in consecutive order and let's thank S.F. for erasing SB18 from the record books) which cannot be hung on Elway.

[Bishop Hammer]

still surprised many think hes a lock.

if i'm looking at him critically, i'd say he inherited a team lead by a QB who was already a HOF'er, who had been to to 3 SB's. won a SB in his 3rd and 4th year as a coach with elway. then, elway retired and he's won one playoff game in 14 years as a HC since then with a record barely over .500.

doesnt sound so good when you put it like that.

For sure. Every Shanahan detractor points to his post Elway career to show why he's not a lock. since John retired Shanny hasn't looked like a hall of fame caliber coach. For that matter he didn't look like one before he went to Den and inherited Capt. Comeback.

[TSO]

My God, I'm so sick of this revisionist history crap. Trying to downplay Super Bowls won after a bad season from said coach is the very definition of rage-infused illogical thinking. Enough is enough.  

 

When Shanahan won with Elway, he did so with what everyone considered an AGING HOF QB, who was on the decline. Elway himself has said a million times that Shanahan finally gave him a complete team in which he didn't have to do everything. He won those Super Bowls with an innovative running scheme that, ever since, has been one of the best in the league consistently and has been adopted by pretty much EVERYONE in some way or form.

 

Again, enough. Enough with the bull**** about the players he's "screwed up" or his "ego got involved" with. EVERY ONE OF THOSE PLAYERS HAS SUCKED WITHOUT HIM OR SUCKED AFTER THEY MOVED ON FROM HIM. Why does everyone conveniently ignore that fact? I mean, just look at the names that have come out openly with hate directed towards Mike Shanahan: Plummer, McNabb and Haynesworth.  

 

I mean, that's more flattering than anything else. Now compare that to the players and coaches who have openly supported Mike... yeah, exactly.   

 

Let's go down the list of QBs people like to point out as a negative for Mike, shall we? 

 

Let's start with Plummer. Plummer had the best records in his career and played the best football of his career under Shanahan. After the supposed "ego trip" and "obsession with stats" that Plummer claimed Mike had, what did Plummer do? Refused to go to the Bucs in a trade and friggin retired on them. Yeah, he clearly had the passion left to play football. It was all Mike that ruined it for him. Uh huh. Such bs. I don't care who you are, if you love the game you'll want to put in the work to prove everyone wrong about you. Instead, Plummer retired. That says EVERYTHING about the situation and proves he didn't really care much. Mike was right.

 

Here are some Plummer quotes before this whole thing went down and he used it as a way to make himself look good: 

 

“In retrospect and hindsight you see things. Things play out, and you learn, if you keep your eyes and ears open. Hey, I was lucky to get the opportunity to play for [Mike] Shanahan. He helped turn my career around and gave me a chance to show that I was a winner, regardless of how things went down.

“It just seemed like every game I could have completed these four more passes or these five more shots here and it would have been perfect. And that just wasn’t my personality....But Shanahan wanted perfection and he wore a lot of us down there.”

“I had a coach that, regardless of how well I thought I was playing or how well the majority of fans across the country thought I was playing, it was never good enough for him,” Plummer said, not bitter but very matter-of-fact. “And that kind of gets frustrating.

 

Yes, Plummer, how dare a coach ask for perfection from his players! Sounds like a stupid excuse if I ever heard one. Everyone should be striving for that anyway, period. I hope our assumed next head coach demands the same.

 

I think it's painfully obvious Plummer's passion for the game ran out. We have him here pretty much praising Mike originally, but now Plummer wants us to believe that Mike tired him out to the point where he just gave up and didn't want to play football anymore?

 

Lol. Just lol.        

 

  Next up? Cutler. Cutler was clearly trending upward with Shanahan coaching him. He was turnover prone and threw too many INTs, but he also made a ton of plays. Cutler led an offense that was first in the AFC, second in the entire NFL. He had 25 TD to 18 INTs. Cutler also had his two best completion percentages under Shanahan (63.6% in 07 and 62.3% in 08) in his entire career up until this year, in which he currently sits at 63.1%. He threw for over 4,526 yards, his highest total in HIS ENTIRE CAREER. Cutler has never said one thing wrong about Mike, only that he credits him with his development as an NFL QB. When Mike got canned in Denver, what did Cutler do? Throw a fit until McDaniels basically HAD to trade him. Yeah, sounds like a guy who got "ruined" by Shanahan, right? The Bears jumped on it (we were interested as well) because Cutler had franchise QB written all over him at the time. 

 

On to McNabb. When the trade was made, virtually everyone in the sports media as well as fans alike were on board. McNabb was just coming off an excellent season in 2009. He was sent to the Pro Bowl. He had one of his better completion percentages, coming in at 60.3% (he was almost always under 60% his entire career, except for 07-09). The hindsight is 20/20 crowd loves to point out the huge mistake that was trading for McNabb, but the fact is he's EXACTLY the type of QB that fits the mold of a Mike Shanahan prototype. McNabb seemed like the perfect fit for the bootleg offense. He failed here, of course, but those who point to Mike and Kyle's ego being the problem here completely ignore:

 

1) His 14 TDs to 15 INTs and 7 fumbles.

2) His lack of desire to adjust in anyway.

3) His total lack of passion for the game, something that rubbed a lot of Eagle fans the wrong way for years prior.   

4) His absolutely WOEFUL performance the next season with the Vikings, in which he stated a million times "created an offense for him" and "played to his strengths" all offseason. 

 

Yeah, Shanahan "ruined" McNabb, huh? 

 

Mike was at fault for thinking he can bring in McNabb and take him to the next level. He was wrong for thinking he can light a fire under him. But big friggin deal. I want my coach to think like that, damnit.  

 

On to Grossman and Beck. I put them together because I think they're tied to the hip due to the situation we were in going in to 2011. Instead of focusing on how awful they were, why don't we focus on the fact that Mike saved this franchise from picking a QB in 2011 (namely, Blaine Gabbert) who would've ended up an absolute disaster for us? Everyone in the media as well as some of the prominent insiders were calling for us to pick Gabbert. When he didn't, and instead traded down, there was some harsh criticism directed towards him from those same people.

 

Grossman and Beck were clearly failures, but let's not act like Mike ruined them. Grossman played his best football under Mike other than the one exceptional year he had with the Bears when they had a historically awesome defense to help him out. Beck just sucked and always did.

 

Again, the only fault Mike has here is that he believe he can get guys to play better for him. That's a GREAT quality in a coach. He has reason to because Elway, Greise, Plummer and Cutler all had some of their best years in the NFL under him. Those are UNDENIABLE FACTS. He friggin had Griese in the Pro Bowl one year with a 102.9 QBR. Brian. Griese.        

 

The jury is still out on both Robert and Cousins, but at the very least Mike has shown the league that both can play in the NFL. Robert had what was the best rookie QB season in the league's history, and yet somehow we are to believe Mike had nothing to do with that and just got lucky and it was all Robert? Come on! Kirk came in and ran the traditional Shanahan bootleg offense beautifully against a Browns defense that was on a tear at the time as well. Mike had nothing to do with that, I'm sure.  

 

Here's a quote from Kirk today that says a lot: 

 

On Kyle Shanahan's best trait as an offensive coordinator:

“He does a very good job of in-game adjustments on game day. I think he does a very good job with the passing game and putting me as a quarterback in a position to be successful. He does a very good job with the receivers in splits and motions. I just have total faith and confidence in him to put me in a position to be successful and I feel like he’s done that every time I’ve had a chance to play here as a part of the Redskins. He’s the kind of guy that I think very highly of as an offensive coordinator, and if I get to play for Kyle or someone like Kyle at his level of a play-caller for the rest of my career, I’ll be in very good shape. So I think the world of him and Coach [Mike] Shanahan, and I think, like I said, I’ll be very successful if I get to play for a play-caller like them.”

I know, I know. "Player speak". Riiight. Because only when a player says something negative is it true. Kirk just had to say all of those things in detail.

 

This year sucked. It sucked big time. Mike sucked, Kyle sucked, Robert sucked, Defense sucked, Special Teams sucked, Fletcher sucked, Santana Moss sucked, Robert's dad sucked, Snyder sucked - everyone sucked.  

 

But enough with this revisionist crap. Enough with tarnishing a well documented and highly regarded legacy. My God, I hope none of that would ever happen to any of you in any careers you so choose were you to have an awful year.  

 

He should go into the HOF based on two Super Bowls, consistently great offense's his entire career, and a running game that has influenced EVERYONE and turned backs that no one wanted into Hall of Famers and studs. But, wait, let me guess... that was all Bobby Turner, right? Or Gary Kubiak, huh?

 

You see, anything that Mike Shanahan does well must be due to the coaches he's hired. They get all the credit, he didn't do anything. Heck, he didn't even hire them, just got lucky. But when anything goes wrong, it's BECAUSE HE HIRED THIS OR THAT COACH. His fault. Awesome, completely logical.

 

I mean, let's even talk about the coaching decisions he made this offseason that has everyone going nuts. He kept Haslett, which is completely understandable after what happened last year. Was anyone really criticizing that move? The fact is, Has, Slowik and Raheem were on a roll and the way we were rotating players was a thing of beauty. He would've been a total idiot to fire them after that, something he was planning to do before the 7 game winning streak according to the insiders (Slowik and Has were said to be done).

 

AS for Keith Burns, the guy was an assistant with one of the best Special Teams units in the league the previous year. The Broncos in 2012 were an excellent unit, so to hire a guy from there wasn't crazy. Everyone was on board with it as well.

 

They both failed miserably and that's on Mike, I totally get that. But to act like he's a total moron and destroyed this franchise for it while omitting the salary cap penalty that hovers over all of it is outrageous.    

 

What a joke this has all become.    

[mike42]

Certainly, Shanahan hasn't been relevant since 2005 and hoping he gets canned in the off season. However, he is deserves to be in the HOF. What he did in the late 90s and early 2000s was truly cutting edge.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Shanny is a lock. Anyone claiming otherwise has an agenda.

And the "he only won with so and so at QB" is the lamest argument in sports. You could say the same thing about Walsh, Parcells, Belicheck, etc. How many SBs did Elway win without Shanny?

He's had a rough run here, but he's a HOF coach. Period.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

And the "he only won with so and so at QB" is the lamest argument in sports. You could say the same thing about Walsh, Parcells, Belicheck, etc. How many SBs did Elway win without Shanny?

.....

 

The same number John won without Kubiak as his QB coach/ OC? 

 

Hail. 

[Riggo-toni]

Shanny is a lock. Anyone claiming otherwise has an agenda.

And the "he only won with so and so at QB" is the lamest argument in sports. You could say the same thing about Walsh, Parcells, Belicheck, etc. How many SBs did Elway win without Shanny?

He's had a rough run here, but he's a HOF coach. Period.

I disagree, and it's not based on how badly he's failed here - it's his entirely unimpressive record without Terrell Davis.  In 20 years of coaching, he's had only 3 seasons with playoff wins

Parcells won 2 SBs with 2 different QBs, went to a 3rd with a different QB, and went to an AFC conference championship with a 4th.

Belichek has 5 rings if you count his rings as a coordinator.  They're clearly above Shanahan.

 

Should Shanny get in before Jimmy Johnson?  Should he get in before Tom Flores?  Should he get in before Coughlin, who's taken two teams to conference championships besides having 2 rings.

Bill Walsh won 3 as a coach and developed an offensive system that was one of the most copied of the SB era.

[drowland]

Jimmy Johnson hasn't been a lock for the HOF, so I don't see how Shanahan can be considered one either.  Jimmy took over a worse situation then Shanahan ever did.  Traded their star player for draft picks, had them in the playoffs in 3 years and winning SBs in years 4 and 5.  Jimmy's draft success changed the way other teams drafted.  

[SB17]

If he takes a "scorch the earth" approach to his imminent departure here, I believe it will ultimately keep him out of the HoF.

[drowland]

One name man. Gary Kubiak.

His supporters refuse to acknowledge it, but he's done next to nothing before or since Kubiak was his QB coach/ OC.

Gary Kubiak. The man who took Elway over the edge and gave Steve Young his best season.

Gary Kubiak. The man who Mike Shanahan has been lost without.

Hail.

 

Sometimes it takes a good asst coach to put you over the edge.

 

Parcells never won a SB without Belichick and Belichick hasn't won a SB without Romeo Crennel.

 

Actually neither has won a SB without Romeo on staff.  Romeo has 5 rings between the Giants and Patriots.  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If he takes a "scorch the earth" approach to his imminent departure here, I believe it will ultimately keep him out of the HoF.

 

There'd be a poetic justice in that given the last three weeks in particular. 

 

Hail. 

[SB17]

If he takes a "scorch the earth" approach to his imminent departure here, I believe it will ultimately keep him out of the HoF.

 

There'd be a poetic justice in that given the last three weeks in particular. 

 

Hail. 

Yeah, maybe I should have said, "If he continues to take a "scorch the earth" approach ...

[BleedBNG]

I don't give a rats petunia either way... he's Denver's past glory.

[JoeWolf990]

Mike Shanahan is not a HOFer, lol.

George Seifert won 2 super bowls and then bombed at Carolina and isnt under consideration anymore.

Tom Flores won 2 super bowls, and then bombed in Seattle and isnt under consideration anymore.

Shanahan is not going to the HOF. Believe that. This stint with the Redskins killed those chances.

Jimmy Johnson hasn't been a lock for the HOF, so I don't see how Shanahan can be considered one either.  Jimmy took over a worse situation then Shanahan ever did.  Traded their star player for draft picks, had them in the playoffs in 3 years and winning SBs in years 4 and 5.  Jimmy's draft success changed the way other teams drafted.

and Jimmy has a better case than Shanahan.