Kyle's Opening Script Vs The Vikings

[darrelgreenie]

Just like last time. Another chance to talk Xs and Os before the fact.

 

NFL teams have a specific gameplan. In these gameplans many teams, especially WCO rooted offenses, script key plays/concepts into the opening possessions of games.

 

 

Most scripts consist of ~15 plays designed to establish a rhythm or take advantage of a tendency they spot in the defense or get specific players early touches or establish an identity or use formations to identify defensive coverages etc....

 

One things is certain, all coaches design their opening scripts to score.

 

*the more specific/detailed (formation/personnel) the easier it will be to discuss

                                                                                                                                       

The gameplan from last week was a pleasant departure from previous weeks. The used more read-option concepts then before, including the triple option. They used power run formations that included a 3 TEs sets and tackle eligible sets with Tom Compton. And we saw the return of the movement passing game.

 

Edit: Vikings are missing: 2 starting CBs and a starting SAF

 

Which plays/concepts* would you like to see in the opening possessions versus Vikings? Why? and/or What do you expect?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I expect pass (IC), pass (short of marker or even a long IC), Griff chased out of pocket with no receivers to hit and throws it away. 3 and out. 

 

All from bunched 3 receiver, 1 back sets. 

 

Color me still VERY skeptical on his ability to put two consistent back-to-back games together until he actually does. 

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

Tampa 2 defenses are difficult to run against (not impossible).  They also have passing windows in their zones.

 

The most important aspect of going against a Tampa 2 team is to get control of the middle of the field.

 

So:

Run dives

Run slants

Run posts

 

Don't let that MLB get comfortable and don't let them dictate to you what you are allowed to do.

 

After you spend some time doing that, have at that play sheet Kyle.  You get a lead on a Tampa 2 team and you'll force them to take chances on defense and get out of their comfort zone.

 

I'd love to be running a lot of boot action in this one.  You'll have 2 or 3 defenders responsible for levels in the field, and with minimal accuracy and good route depth guys should be fairly wide open tonight.

 

Again, in a perfect world.

[darrelgreenie]

I expect pass (IC), pass (short of marker or even a long IC), Griff chased out of pocket with no receivers to hit and throws it away. 3 and out. 

 

All from bunched 3 receiver, 1 back sets. 

 

Color me still VERY skeptical on his ability to put two consistent back-to-back games together until he actually does. 

 

Hail. 

What do you want to see?

[DC9]

Oh, almost forgot, Robert and Kyle need to be on each other about routes that get the ball out of Roberts hand in the first or second window of the zone. 

 

Can't be holding that ball for two reasons:

1) Jared Allen is over there

2) In a game where the defense is almost a pure zone team, they are all going to have one eye on Griffin, and if he stares down his weapons that'll make for an interesting night.

[BraunMan92]

Why not counter-trey and 40 gut and dare them to stop it?  Show attitude, and POWER.  POWER RUN GAME.

[DaGoonie55]

Run the read option from last week.

 

1st play: Motion WR into the diamond pistol (we ran the triple option out of it last week) run the RO to Morris (or what the read shows you).

2nd play:Motion WR into the diamond pistol run PA slant (Reed) and fly (Garcon). 

 

We're up 6-0 13:55 on the clock.

 

For the rest of the game the LBs will be pulling out their hair.

[skins island connection]

 I like the single back concept with 3 rec.sets.  Problem is, the QB isn't close to being back. Morris is more than capable of being the feature back, but receivers need to bathe in stickum and Griffin needs to be more accurate; completions and steady first downs will keep defenses on their heels, but it takes all parts.

 

 Now, regarding scripted plays, that works for some teams but not others; teams looking to find themselves will script, opposed to teams which are established veterans who know what they're doing and are capable of executing their plays/selling their routes.

It is like a test to see what works, a general sparring match; but insert a Manning or Brady, and they could go for it all on the 2nd play.

[DC9]

 Now, regarding scripted plays, that works for some teams but not others; teams looking to find themselves will script, opposed to teams which are established veterans who know what they're doing and are capable of executing their plays/selling their routes.

It is like a test to see what works, a general sparring match; but insert a Manning or Brady, and they could go for it all on the 2nd play.

 I disagree completely.

 

In terms of an actual physical script, maybe.  But in terms of working on plays and doing a walk thru and then running said plays so that the ENTIRE team understands what their role is in attacking the defense?  Yes, everyone has a script.

 

EDIT:  And I'm not confusing script for gameplan.

 

Two different things.  If no physical script exists then running the early plays and attacking the defenses the way you want to in your game plan is in effect your script.

[pjfootballer]

Why not counter-trey and 40 gut and dare them to stop it? Show attitude, and POWER. POWER RUN GAME.

Because this isn't 1982? Just a guess.

[CNHOPPER]

1st down Deep pass fail

2nd down Mid pass fail

3rd down run O.o fail 

3 and out punt

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

What do you want to see?

 

*Crud. I hate x's and o's. I always mix some facet up even though I know what I mean darn it. 

 

Against a Tampa 2? Go 4 wide (3 receiver/ TE) with a single back and spread the field. Get the X and Z wide guys going down field on posts or corners splitting the safety's, Roll y guy out in the flat to bait the corners, have the back breaking over the middle to occupy the most important piece, the MIKE 'backer, and then have the TE filling the space created behind him with the occupied safety's on crossing routes. 4 quick reads for 10. 

 

And keep the threat of RO/ PA off RO runs both from Robert and Morris. (Who needs to be HEAVILY involved all night.). 

 

Keep it mixed up and keep the MIKE off guard all night. And keep it up tempo. 

 

If I mixed up the X, Y, Z guys I make zero apologies as I hate class. So there.  .

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

*Crud. I hate x's and o's. I always mix some facet up even though I know what I mean darn it. 

 

Against a Tampa 2? Go 4 wide (3 receiver/ TE) with a single back and spread the field. Get the X and Z wide guys going down field on posts or corners splitting the safety's, Roll y guy out in the flat to bait the corners, have the back breaking over the middle to occupy the most important piece, the MIKE 'backer, and then have the TE filling the space created behind him with the occupied safety's on crossing routes. 4 quick reads for 10. 

 

Haven't seen a lot of corner routes this year.  In fact the first time I saw them run for Griffin to throw at was MNF last year vs NYG and we ran it once or twice and 88 was wide open the whole time.

 

I think you'll see that being run tonight for sure.  Cooley also said as much on Tuesday evening when he was giving his "this is what I'd do if I was Kyle" on his radio show.

 

Not so sure I'd run one in the opening drive, but you never know.  If they are biting hard on the middle 3rd it'll be wide open.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that is at least a 5 step route on the tree, so it's something you may want to establish the line of scrimmage for first.

 

I think we'll hit at least one for a big one tonight though

[skins island connection]

 I disagree completely.

 

In terms of an actual physical script, maybe.  But in terms of working on plays and doing a walk thru and then running said plays so that the ENTIRE team understands what their role is in attacking the defense?  Yes, everyone has a script.

 

EDIT:  And I'm not confusing script for gameplan.

 

Two different things.  If no physical script exists then running the early plays and attacking the defenses the way you want to in your game plan is in effect your script.

 

 How dare you contradict my heartfelt football jibberish !

 

 If Griffin was back, and I mean REALLY back,  I could see them attacking a weakness right off the bat. But being he's not mentally 'home' yet, Mike or Kyle will prob just try to keep the game as any other road game; don't fall far behind, read-and-react on both sides of the ball while staying within the boundary of the gameplan.

[darrelgreenie]

Tampa 2 defenses are difficult to run against (not impossible).  They also have passing windows in their zones.

 

The most important aspect of going against a Tampa 2 team is to get control of the middle of the field.

 

So:

Run dives

Run slants

Run posts

 

Don't let that MLB get comfortable and don't let them dictate to you what you are allowed to do.

 

After you spend some time doing that, have at that play sheet Kyle.  You get a lead on a Tampa 2 team and you'll force them to take chances on defense and get out of their comfort zone.

 

I'd love to be running a lot of boot action in this one.  You'll have 2 or 3 defenders responsible for levels in the field, and with minimal accuracy and good route depth guys should be fairly wide open tonight.

 

Again, in a perfect world.

In terms of being difficult to run against I think a Tampa-2 is much easier then your typical 34 team.

But, I agree with your views about their passing windows and controlling the middle of the field.

 

I want to see more of an edge running game then dives but the dive/inside zone runs from Pistol set up the triple option very nicely.

In this game as with most games I would look to establish read-option or the zone run game early.

Get that defense and DL running early, get those guys gassed. Then hit them with the boot action.

I would love to see us come out up tempo/turbo pace.

 

Normally I'm all for efficiency in the opening drive, just trying to get the first 1st down and going from there. But, for a depleted team like the Vikings I could see being aggressive early, trying to get up on them early and try to take AD out of the gameplan and getting up early might knock the fight out of them. Attack the personnel that are starting and shouldn't be.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

First play.  Stretch run behind Silverback.

 

Second Play.  Stretch run PA boot to Reed.

 

Third play.  Smoke screen to Garcon.

 

Get Griff a couple of easy throws early to get him going.  I think Kyle struggled a bit this year because of two things.  One, defenses started overloading our pistol PA slant and double covering our two route plays.  Second, Griff wasn't himself early on.  

 

I am a much bigger believer in Kyle than most here.  I think he keeps us rolling tonight. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 

 

.....Not so sure I'd run one in the opening drive, but you never know.....

 

Ahhh crud. See, this is why I hate X's and O's. I get confuddled with terminology in a classroom like now. That was my general plan of attack. This is the first series thread. My head hurts. 

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

Normally I'm all for efficiency in the opening drive, just trying to get the first 1st down and going from there. But, for a depleted team like the Vikings I could see being aggressive early, trying to get up on them early and try to take AD out of the gameplan and getting up early might knock the fight out of them. Attack the personnel that are starting and shouldn't be.

 

Agree, dg.  That's very important.  I want this one going away early.  I don't think we need to come out and go deep, but put a couple of sustained scoring drives together (very doable if we play efficient football) and take the running game away.  Ponder also doesn't have a big boy arm, in fact, Chad Pennington laughs at Ponder.

 

But getting Peterson, the crowd, and the teams psychie out of the way early are very important.  Don't let these types of teams hang around.  They almost took down Dallas last week for that very reason.

Ahhh crud. See, this is why I hate X's and O's. I get confuddled with terminology in a classroom like now. That was my general plan of attack. This is the first series thread. My head hurts. 

 

Hail. 

 

Actually your play description was perfect and theoretically should/would work, bro

 

I was just saying I wouldn't run a play where the corner was the #1 read that early in the game against a Tampa 2.  But if you are using the X and Z to pull the safeties out of the middle then Reed should have all kinds of room to wreck havoc over the middle third

[darrelgreenie]

Run the read option from last week.

 

1st play: Motion WR into the diamond pistol (we ran the triple option out of it last week) run the RO to Morris (or what the read shows you).....

Love the idea of a high efficiency play like read-option on first down.

 

 

 I like the single back concept with 3 rec.sets.  Problem is, the QB isn't close to being back. Morris is more than capable of being the feature back, but receivers need to bathe in stickum and Griffin needs to be more accurate; completions and steady first downs will keep defenses on their heels, but it takes all parts.

 

 Now, regarding scripted plays, that works for some teams but not others; teams looking to find themselves will script, opposed to teams which are established veterans who know what they're doing and are capable of executing their plays/selling their routes.....

We can agree to disagree on whether Griff is back, I think he's been back for awhile.

 

Most NFL team script their opening plays, heck some even script defensive plays to avoid giving the offense any 'tells'.

What makes you think veteran teams don't script? I've heard Sean Payton/Drew Brees refer to their 'opening script'.

Here is a good read on topic:

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2011/7/4/2228507/the-west-coast-offense-gameplanning-and-play-calling

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

.....

Actually your play description was perfect and theoretically should/would work, bro

 

I was just saying I wouldn't run a play where the corner was the #1 read that early in the game against a Tampa 2.  But if you are using the X and Z to pull the safeties out of the middle then Reed should have all kinds of room to wreck havoc over the middle third

 

 

It was? I mean 'Yeah, too right it was dude. SUCK IT Greenie! I CAN hang with ya'! And I got my X and Z right. So there. I ROCK!

 

Hail. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I love aggressive playcalling, but I think going for a knockout early in this game could be a mistake.  I prefer a "move the chains" philosophy against a Tampa 2.  If we get overly aggressive, I think Griff could toss one up for grabs and that could bite us in the butt.

 

Ponder is mistake prone, and with our ballhawks at DB, I certainly expect us to grab a pick or two.  He is without Rudolph, which means he will be forcing some balls to Greg Jennings.  

 

Move the chains.  Don't turn it over.  Force Ponder into some miscues.  Capitalize on those.  I think that recipe would equal a 10+ point win for the good guys.

[DC9]

I love aggressive playcalling, but I think going for a knockout early in this game could be a mistake.  I prefer a "move the chains" philosophy against a Tampa 2.  If we get overly aggressive, I think Griff could toss one up for grabs and that could bite us in the butt.

 

Ponder is mistake prone, and with our ballhawks at DB, I certainly expect us to grab a pick or two.  He is without Rudolph, which means he will be forcing some balls to Greg Jennings.  

 

Move the chains.  Don't turn it over.  Force Ponder into some miscues.  Capitalize on those.  I think that recipe would equal a 10+ point win for the good guys.

 

Remember that lollipop he threw up to Madoodoo last year?

 

And whole heartidly agree with the grinder mentality against a defense like this.  Try and go up a couple and run Alfred run. 

[darrelgreenie]

Against a Tampa 2? Go 4 wide (3 receiver/ TE) with a single back and spread the field....

 

And keep the threat of RO/ PA off RO runs both from Robert and Morris. (Who needs to be HEAVILY involved all night.). 

 

..............And keep it up tempo. 

Would love to see more spread, but right now for whatever reason its just not a big part of our offense/passing game.

 

Agreed on getting both Griff and Morris involved in the RO/ROPA

 

This game is begging for more 'turbo' offense

[Brokenstriker]

1:  play action dive, quick pass to primary receiver TE (Reed) running a seam route down the right hashes

2:  zone run left

3:  option pass primary receiver WR running a crossing pattern (Garcon)

4:  zone run left

5:  option left pass primary receiver WR (Hankerson) running a post pattern

6:  zone run right

7:  screen pass to RB (Helu)

8:  dive FB

9:  boot right

10:  zone run which ever side has been more productive

[darrelgreenie]

First play.  Stretch run behind Silverback.

 

Second Play.  Stretch run PA boot to Reed.

 

Third play.  Smoke screen to Garcon.

 

Get Griff a couple of easy throws early to get him going.  I think Kyle struggled a bit this year because of two things.  One, defenses started overloading our pistol PA slant and double covering our two route plays.  Second, Griff wasn't himself early on. 

Love it, my thoughts aren't too far from yours. Those are 3 things we do well, stretch run, bootleg, WR screen. Bootleg and WR screens have well defined reads easy to execute.  (I def agree that defenses are playing are 2-man PA routes very well.)