2014 Comprehensive Nfl Draft Database

[RemoveSnyder]

And in other news Cyril Richardson is showing kinks in the armor. He's really struggling trying to redirect to inside jabs or counter steps, speed gets him. It's not been impressive for him. I don't think #34 is in play for him anymore, to be honest.

[darrelgreenie]

I'm fine with this if we keep Cofield at NT, I guess. But if we are going to drop #34 on a DE he'd better be a damn good force up front.

 

Just read about how the Panthers were the most improved roster from '12 to '13 and a big reason for that was a swing from -40 from their DTs to a +20 ... big part due to drafting Lotuleilei and Kawan Short ... but a guy like Short can be had in the 2nd round ... and if someone like that is there, I'd be thrilled. It really does all start up front ... I just wish we could get more out of Jarvis Jenkins. I'll be so mad if he doesn't turn into that type of player ... would be such a waste of a 2nd rounder that we desperately NEEDED to pan out.

I got beat up pretty bad around these parts because I wasn't happy with the Jenkins pick.

Imo he's a good DL but he wasn't considered a penetrator or pass rush as a prospect yet we chose him and tried to make him into one.

Even last year they were trying to get him to improve his pass rushing moves.

I figured the got him with the intent to make him a NT. But I digress.

 

In general I don't have a lot of faith in a rookie 5-tech DE making a big impact or the kind of impact we need.

At pick 34 I would love a RT that can come in and compete for a starting spot right away. I think we have a good chance of 1 of the 3 between Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson or Joel Bitonio will be there.

[darrelgreenie]

Listening to ESPN980 now Tarik El Brasheer

 

Haslett and Burney down on the field with the interior DL taking keen interest and taking notes

 

(but what else would they be doing there?)

[Thekyle1591]

I got beat up pretty bad around these parts because I wasn't happy with the Jenkins pick.

Imo he's a good DL but he wasn't considered a penetrator or pass rush as a prospect yet we chose him and tried to make him into one.

Even last year they were trying to get him to improve his pass rushing moves.

I figured the got him with the intent to make him a NT. But I digress.

 

In general I don't have a lot of faith in a rookie 5-tech DE making a big impact or the kind of impact we need.

At pick 34 I would love a RT that can come in and compete for a starting spot right away. I think we have a good chance of 1 of the 3 between Morgan Moses, Antonio Richardson or Joel Bitonio will be there.

Where would we get a guy like that then? We certainly don't have a guy like that on the roster. I think we need to go Guard or DL with 34 or even WR if the right guy falls. RT can be found in later rounds and I think Michael Shofield will certainly be there in the 3rd if we decide to go that route. Btw senior bowl practice is on NFL network if yall wanna tune in. 

And in other news Cyril Richardson is showing kinks in the armor. He's really struggling trying to redirect to inside jabs or counter steps, speed gets him. It's not been impressive for him. I don't think #34 is in play for him anymore, to be honest.

When you watch him on film he looks so flat footed at times and the smaller quicker guys give him fits. Even against the UCF line he was struggling to stay in front of them and a few times they would've blown right past him had the QB not gotten rid of it. He reminds me alot of a less athletic Mike Iupati. 

[RemoveSnyder]

Hagemen is almost a sure fire first rounder

 

Personally, I don't value Hageman as a 1st rounder. I felt that way just by watching his tape, alone. This week, I disassociate what Mayock says during the practices versus what the player is actually doing and I just use my own eyes. Simply, I don't trust Mayock.

 

You know, Mayock will douse a guy with hyperbole, overstate an accomplishment on one play, then you go back to see the tape, to see if the attributes, the Mayock praise, shows there and it just doesn't.

 

So like yesterday, if all you did was listen to Mayock, you thought Hageman was a superstar. When you watch the play in conjunction with Mayock speaking, you experience a juxtaposition. Simply, Mayock's words don't fit the scene being shown.

 

In drills, you see a player perhaps, slightly, get some steps on a certain O-Lineman but nothing I would call a downright clobbering and it certainly didn't occur against all of the o-linemen. In fact, like today, Schofield stonewalled Hageman, more than once.

 

IF anything, the plays Hageman made were slightly "hopeful" for a prospective suitor. Meaning, you are banking on the potential of seeing his best for every play, but the game tape shows a guy who is inconsistent.

 

The tape shows that he has that first step, only that it shows up every once & awhile. But without knowing that he showed that in the game film and all you saw was the first step in a one-on-one, you'd think you found a gem, but you really haven't.

 

The game tape shows a guy who made that first step, got penetration, while the play flew right past him. He would get stymied on double teams, yes he gets credit for drawing the double team. Then on single man blocks, he'll penetrate but seemingly never find the ball, sans for a few times.

 

You see a guy who disappears a lot. And that's exactly what Daniel Jeremiah said today.

 

So, I personally don't let Mayock sway my opinions. Mayock is a great vocabulary guy. He loves using the parlance of the particular year. He liters his sentences with the verbiage that runs like cliche and you think to yourself that this guy is really on-point, sometimes he is, but many times he overvalues certain guys to incredibly disproportionate levels.

 

I also think he pushes the Notre Dame kids with an agenda. Sometimes they warrant the look, like with Zack Martin this year. But in years past, like with Zeke Motta, he really pushes guy way too high sometimes, with an almost agenda like zeal.

 

Anyway, with Hageman, I think people, front office and coaches just look at the size and general speed ratio, they see the athlete and will select him based on his measurables. I believe they will use the 'Ole shanny method of seeing the highlight stuff and forget the other 80% of blase play. They basically see clay.

 

I'm just weary of Hageman. I see individual skill that doesn't manifest itself into an actual play on the ball or play on the QB which would affect the game.

 

Syracuse game for example, for someone who could make penetration on his own, he seemingly was just as "standout" for not actually doing anything after he got penetration. Sometimes his penetration hurt his team as the offense used it to their advantage and ran right past him.

 

And it's not just that one game. You don't see a cut-up vid from the Iowa game do you? - No. Because you'd be hard pressed to find a minute's worth of good tape there. And when I watched the Iowa game, I saw a guy who disappeared, literally could not find him.

 

You know? - So for me, I use Iowa as a great measuring stick since they basically are an NFL offensive line. They don't have the size or skill in all the positions, but they make up for it with effort and technique. They are highly coached and play a hard-nose oldschool style that comes out in the NFL.

 

But that's just my perspective, had to get that out there.

[Thekyle1591]

But that's just my perspective, had to get that out there.

Yeah his game tape is very inconstant and I didn't really view him going higher than the mid 2nd round until I started hearing the reports from this week. I don't ever really go off other peoples opinions on players, but after hearing about Hagemen I couldn't help but think that he finally realized his massive potential. I still think a team like Seattle or the 49ers might pick him based solely on his potential, measurables and the fact he wouldn't need to play right away and could sit on the bench and steadily improve. Who has impressed you the most this week? 

[wilco_holland]

 

I also think he pushes the Notre Dame kids with an agenda. Sometimes they warrant the look, like with Zack Martin this year. But in years past, like with Zeke Motta, he really pushes guy way too high sometimes, with an almost agenda like zeal.

 

 

Remind me of Mike talking about Harrison Smith. XD He hyped him sooooo bad. 

 

Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player...but he was just talking about him like he was the next Troy Polamalu.

[darrelgreenie]

Where would we get a guy like that then? We certainly don't have a guy like that on the roster. I think we need to go Guard or DL with 34 or even WR if the right guy falls.  

Where to get an immediate impact 34 5-tech DE? Either FA or high 1st round draft pick.

 

btw-

I always think BPA and I think most teams feel the same. The issue is whether teams make the right determination/ranking of their draft board, and only time can answer those questions. I think its rare that a team drafts a player they don't consider the BPA.

[Thekyle1591]

Where to get an immediate impact 34 5-tech DE? Either FA or high 1st round draft pick.

 

btw-

I always think BPA and I think most teams feel the same. The issue is whether teams make the right determination/ranking of their draft board, and only time can answer those questions. I think its rare that a team drafts a player they don't consider the BPA.

Of the top 10 3-4 ends this season, only 2 were picked in the top half of the first and the other 2 were among the last picks of the 1st round. So if the jets can find Wilkerson at 31, who's to say we cant find an impact player at 34? 

[RemoveSnyder]

Who has impressed you the most this week? 

 

I never really knew much of anything on Zack Martin but call me impressed with him. He looks like a guy who I'd put at LG. He's just got that body size for Guard. He's being projected for the fringe 1st round maybe early 2nd, I think, because of a bit of a logjam at Tackle. It might just be a situation where because of the number of bodies, Martin lasts to that early 2nd round. I like his value at #34.

 

I like Martin more than Richardson based on everything I've seen this week during practices. His movement skills are better, he's just as tough, more quick and agile, could easily fit Zone as well as pull / kick-out power run - I like him.

 

Obviously I like Schofield but I have for awhile and I'm not surprised by his accomplishments this week. I've seen it all on film before. He stonewalls guys with regularity and plays all the way to the whistle. So, for RT specific, I'll take Schofield.

 

I mean, everyone loves him, Donald has been doing real well too. I like that he hustles. He runs back to his position group after each play, not just a saunter. You can tell he's giving effort. Ha. I just ... you know everyone wants to dance with the pretty girl and it seems everyone is lining up for Donald, so I'm just admiring from afar.

[MusicCitySkin]

I'm liking the idea of going BPA on the defensive side of the ball with the first two picks. There isn't really a position that couldn't use an upgrade--except maybe pass rusher. But, if we can't keep Orakpo, this defense is going to be severely starved for talent.

[darrelgreenie]

Of the top 10 3-4 ends this season, only 2 were picked in the top half of the first and the other 2 were among the last picks of the 1st round. So if the jets can find Wilkerson at 31, who's to say we cant find an impact player at 34? 

Wilkerson as rookie wasn't the Wilkerson you see now; which was my original point. If you're looking for immediate impact  from a 34 5-tech DE you shouldn't rely on a rookie. I did not say you can't find a player that develops into a good 34 5-tech DE.

 

And we could find an immediate stud DE at pick 34 we could find an Alfred Morris in the 6th but I wouldn't build a team counting on immediate impact from a rookie 34 5-tech DE.

[Thekyle1591]

Wilkerson as rookie wasn't the Wilkerson you see now; which was my original point. If you're looking for immediate impact  from a 34 5-tech DE you shouldn't rely on a rookie. I did not say you can't find a player that develops into a good 34 5-tech DE.

 

And we could find an immediate stud DE at pick 34 we could find an Alfred Morris in the 6th but I wouldn't build a team counting on immediate impact from a rookie 34 5-tech DE.

You say Wilkerson as a rookie wasn't the player you see now, which is true, but he still had 31 stops in the run game and was much better than anyone on our team this year. I don't see why you think that we shouldn't count on a rookie 3-4 end but that we should count on a rookie guard or tackle or whoever you think we should draft. 

I never really knew much of anything on Zack Martin but call me impressed with him. He looks like a guy who I'd put at LG. He's just got that body size for Guard. He's being projected for the fringe 1st round maybe early 2nd, I think, because of a bit of a logjam at Tackle. It might just be a situation where because of the number of bodies, Martin lasts to that early 2nd round. I like his value at #34.

 

I like Martin more than Richardson based on everything I've seen this week during practices. His movement skills are better, he's just as tough, more quick and agile, could easily fit Zone as well as pull / kick-out power run - I like him.

 

Obviously I like Schofield but I have for awhile and I'm not surprised by his accomplishments this week. I've seen it all on film before. He stonewalls guys with regularity and plays all the way to the whistle. So, for RT specific, I'll take Schofield.

 

I mean, everyone loves him, Donald has been doing real well too. I like that he hustles. He runs back to his position group after each play, not just a saunter. You can tell he's giving effort. Ha. I just ... you know everyone wants to dance with the pretty girl and it seems everyone is lining up for Donald, so I'm just admiring from afar.

I'm not sure why you don't view Martin as a LT prospect. He looks the part on film and apparently has looked the part in this weeks practices. Schofield seems a little slow on film but his pass blocking and run blocking is pretty darn impressive.  

[darrelgreenie]

You say Wilkerson as a rookie wasn't the player you see now, which is true, but he still had 31 stops in the run game and was much better than anyone on our team this year. I don't see why you think that we shouldn't count on a rookie 3-4 end but that we should count on a rookie guard or tackle or whoever you think we should draft.

I believe 34 5-tech DE is a difficult position for a rookie to come in and have an impact right away. And I believe our DL more then anything else needs to increase their ability to pressure. I think its much more likely to get immediate impact at DE via FA then with the 34 pick. A rookie OG/OT doesn't have to be a stud to have an immediate impact for our OL and on the whole I don't think our OL or offense is anywhere close to the problem that our DL/defense is.

 

Does that answer your question?

[Thekyle1591]

I believe 34 5-tech DE is a difficult position for a rookie to come in and have an impact right away. And I believe our DL more then anything else needs to increase their ability to pressure. I think its much more likely to get immediate impact at DE via FA then with the 34 pick. A rookie OG/OT doesn't have to be a stud to have an immediate impact for our OL and on the whole I don't think our OL or offense is anywhere close to the problem that our DL/defense is.

 

Does that answer your question?

Either way, we need to pick the BPA, whether it be a OL or DL it doesn't matter.

[darrelgreenie]

Either way, we need to pick the BPA, whether it be a OL or DL it doesn't matter.

Of course.

[Dukes and Skins]

Of course.

 

Totally agreed. Do think that they know the issues really stem from the OL and DL as they've sent those coaches there for a reason 

[RemoveSnyder]

 I'm not sure why you don't view Martin as a LT prospect. He looks the part on film and apparently has looked the part in this weeks practices. Schofield seems a little slow on film but his pass blocking and run blocking is pretty darn impressive.  

 

I didn't say he wasn't a LT or that folks wouldn't try him at LT, I'm saying I would put him at LG. Obviously, if we're talking about him specific to our team, he's not playing LT. And I tend to like to keep guys on the side that they are familiar with from college.

 

l'd plug him at LG, one spot next to where he played during college, for familiarity sake.

 

For a guy who played LT, he has shown that he could easily play LG as well, which, incidentally, the coaches have lined him up at plenty this week.

 

But, you mean to say that based on his body size, length, such as arms (32.1/4) & hands (9.3/4), also the weight (305), that you don't see why folks are interested in if he could play LG?

 

Size-wise, he's an archetype Guard in the NFL. I think for a lot of teams he's a Guard based upon body size, who happens to have plus pass blocking skills. I suspect folks see him as the best Guard in the class but maybe somewhere like the 4th or 5th Tackle. Athletically, he's good and would be a boon at LG next to Williams.

...

Oh and did I mention that Brandon Thomas got great measurements? - He's got some of the longest arms there at the Senior Bowl (34.3/8), perhaps the longest arms in all of the O-Linemen. Hand size also a really good score (10.3/4) and his weight is 10 pounds plus on Martin at 316 lbs.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I think Brandon Thomas is better as a Guard because he can easily get caught overextending, oversetting and loses guys to the inside on hard fakes and counter moves. He's athletic but re-direction is a different beast, as you know. That's why I stated long ago that sliding him one position inside from LT to LG would benefit him.

[RemoveSnyder]

Schofield seems a little slow on film but his pass blocking and run blocking is pretty darn impressive.  

 

Eh, I think he plays controlled. You might not call him quick twitch but I see him recover really well, as well as, pick up stunts that someone else missed.

 

Again, almost all the Big 10 O-lineman who I end up liking, especially those who are sleepers, have really good balance. They just seem to stay within themselves and never get caught leaning too far one way or another.

[Dukes and Skins]

Williams and Martin would be an unfair LT/LG tandem. I agree with some who think that Martin could be an all-pro type OG in the NFL 

[Dukes and Skins]

Been working on a new mock draft so here we go guys

 

I have a feeling we see the move down from 34 to the 40's and add another 3rd round pick at least

 

2nd(40)- Christian Jones ILB FSU

3rd- Joel Bitonio OT Nevada 

3rd- Pierre Desir CB Lindenwood

4th- Mike Davis WR Texas

5th- Justin Ellis NT LaTech

6th- Ryan Grant WR Tulane

7th- Tom Hornsey P Memphis

 

What I really like about this is the additions to ILB with Jones, Desir at CB and Ellis at NT. 3 young guys who have bright futures. Grant and Davis will help boost the WR's and in most years would be higher picks if it wasn't for this loaded class. Bitonio is a mauler at OT and him at RT would be a great move 

[Thekyle1591]

Size-wise, he's an archetype Guard in the NFL. I think for a lot of teams he's a Guard based upon body size, who happens to have plus pass blocking skills. I suspect folks see him as the best Guard in the class but maybe somewhere like the 4th or 5th Tackle. Athletically, he's good and would be a boon at LG next to Williams.

...

Oh and did I mention that Brandon Thomas got great measurements? - He's got some of the longest arms there at the Senior Bowl (34.3/8), perhaps the longest arms in all of the O-Linemen. Hand size also a really good score (10.3/4) and his weight is 10 pounds plus on Martin at 316 lbs.

 

Doesn't change the fact that I think Brandon Thomas is better as a Guard because he can easily get caught overextending, oversetting and loses guys to the inside on hard fakes and counter moves. He's athletic but re-direction is a different beast, as you know. That's why I stated long ago that sliding him one position inside from LT to LG would benefit him.

I'm just saying Martin looks the part at tackle, I think he would be great next to Williams as well, the nice thing about Martin and a reason why his stock is so high is that position versatility, something someone like Schofield doesn't have. I do think Brandon Thomas is 10000000% a guard in the NFL. He had some facepalm moments at tackle in pass pro against Ohio St but mauled guys in the run game and I was most impressed with his blocking in space. My opinion on Schofield is that on film he is NEVER out of position and seems to, as you said, "stonewall" people. Only concern is lack of elite athleticism and being ONLY a RT. As of right now, I would definitely spend a 3rd or 4th on him. 

Been working on a new mock draft so here we go guys

 

I have a feeling we see the move down from 34 to the 40's and add another 3rd round pick at least

 

2nd(40)- Christian Jones ILB FSU

3rd- Joel Bitonio OT Nevada 

3rd- Pierre Desir CB Lindenwood

4th- Mike Davis WR Texas

5th- Justin Ellis NT LaTech

6th- Ryan Grant WR Tulane

7th- Tom Hornsey P Memphis

 

What I really like about this is the additions to ILB with Jones, Desir at CB and Ellis at NT. 3 young guys who have bright futures. Grant and Davis will help boost the WR's and in most years would be higher picks if it wasn't for this loaded class. Bitonio is a mauler at OT and him at RT would be a great move 

If we are talking BPA at 34, a guy who I'm starting to like more and more is Dee Ford. He has insane speed around the corner and absolutely destroyed Florida St. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/dee-ford-vs-fsu-2013/

[Emsworth]

With the well documented issues that Richardson has had this week, has Gabe Jackson moved ahead of him in the Guard pecking order? And has anyone found any gametape that matches up with the struggles he's had this week? It doesn't sound like the guy I've seen on tape, but maybe it's been 'sanitised' versions as was being suggested for Hageman. Or perhaps the kids just having a bad week?

 

Jackson is still my preferred option for a pick at Guard, but the third round looks like it's becoming a pipedream, 34 or nowt?

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm a big fan of Dee Ford if Orakpo doesn't return 

[SJValleySkinz]

Been working on a new mock draft so here we go guys

I have a feeling we see the move down from 34 to the 40's and add another 3rd round pick at least

2nd(40)- Christian Jones ILB FSU

3rd- Joel Bitonio OT Nevada

3rd- Pierre Desir CB Lindenwood

4th- Mike Davis WR Texas

5th- Justin Ellis NT LaTech

6th- Ryan Grant WR Tulane

7th- Tom Hornsey P Memphis

What I really like about this is the additions to ILB with Jones, Desir at CB and Ellis at NT. 3 young guys who have bright futures. Grant and Davis will help boost the WR's and in most years would be higher picks if it wasn't for this loaded class. Bitonio is a mauler at OT and him at RT would be a great move

I'm a Bitonio fan. See a little Chad Clifton in him. Mike Davis is an underrated player too it's crazy how deep this WR class is.