RETRACTION: Why Hasn't Our Defense Improved?

[skins island connection]

People first need to realize the goal of the Haz scheme. 

 

It's not a "smashmouth" defense or a "bend but don't break" defense or even a "pick your poison defense".  It's a "trap" defense.

 

The overall goal of the defense is to show consistent looks in certain packages... and get the offense thinking one thing, and then trapping/baiting them into a turnover once they've reached a comfort level by tweaking the scheme a bit (which has been planned out before the game). 

 

This isn't the ONLY goal, but it's the overall goal.  You sacrifice a lot of yards in between the 20's using this style of play, but it pays dividens in the turnover department.

 

Now, the biggest problem with Haz, is he only plans one or two deep in his traps.  And frankly, he sucks at in-game adjustments. 

 

But part of the problem is offensive formations that Haslett doesn't have answers for. If an offense throws 3 speedy receivers or a multiple TE formation out there, that takes most of the strategy out of the picture; if its successful, the OC will variate plays from that, then Haslett is playing catch-up, and the strategy is reversed. In most close games, if the opponents have the ball, Haslett is behind in the guessing game, and it becomes a matter of offensive execution that dictates their success.

 

The expression on Haslett's face throughout most of the mid-season games says it all; he looked dumbfounded and speechless.

[DC9]

People first need to realize the goal of the Haz scheme. 

 

It's not a "smashmouth" defense or a "bend but don't break" defense or even a "pick your poison defense".  It's a "trap" defense.

 

The overall goal of the defense is to show consistent looks in certain packages... and get the offense thinking one thing, and then trapping/baiting them into a turnover once they've reached a comfort level by tweaking the scheme a bit (which has been planned out before the game). 

 

This isn't the ONLY goal, but it's the overall goal.  You sacrifice a lot of yards in between the 20's using this style of play, but it pays dividens in the turnover department.

 

Now, the biggest problem with Haz, is he only plans one or two deep in his traps.  And frankly, he sucks at in-game adjustments. 

 

But part of the problem is offensive formations that Haslett doesn't have answers for. If an offense throws 3 speedy receivers or a multiple TE formation out there, that takes most of the strategy out of the picture; if its successful, the OC will variate plays from that, then Haslett is playing catch-up, and the strategy is reversed. In most close games, if the opponents have the ball, Haslett is behind in the guessing game, and it becomes a matter of offensive execution that dictates their success.

 

The expression on Haslett's face throughout most of the mid-season games says it all; he looked dumbfounded and speechless.

 

 

Most of our alignments on defense aren't based on what type of player you are or who the player is (mostly). 

 

You match personnel packages with who the offense sends out, but the alignment will remain consistent for the most part.  You don't see a ton of our defense switching sides of the field, you see guys passing motion men off to the other side and the like.  

 

Really watch us, pre-snap, we don't freak out on defense if there are trips on one side and just a TE on the other.  The LCB plays his side and the RCB plays his side.  The safeties and the LBs move around a lot, but our allignments are pretty consistent. 

 

That's why you see a lot of LBs lined up against slot WRs all of the time in our defense pre-snap. 

 

After the ball is snapped, depending on the play call and the read or the adjustment, they blitz or bail out, but rarely if ever are they playing man without near-immediate help or without passing the player off to a S after 10 yards.

 

The disconnect was the Safety position... that should change this year.  Maybe not immediately, but I'm betting between week 8 and week 10 this defense will be pretty fun to watch.

[emor09]

It's funny..

 

I seem to remember: Greg Blache's defense had a "bend but don't break" mentality. We didn't have many sacks or turnovers, but we limited points. Everyone complained about the lack of turnovers.

 

Now we are improving at turnovers, but give up a lot of points. Everyone complains about too many points. 

[Skinsinparadise]

As you know (Oldfan): I've been mostly in the tank for Shanny.  But I do agree with your point you've made in the past and allude to in this thread which is Shanny needs to prove that he can put together a good defense.   

 

He sort of lost me last year when he said this is a top 5 defense when healthy -- IMO he overestimates the talent.  Outside of Sean Taylor, this team for a long time now including under Shanny have not drafted stud defensive players, they have drafted some good ones, but no JJ Watts, J. Smith, Ware, Pierre-Paul, A. Smith types.   We don't have IMO an RG3 type of player on defense -- a guy who can take over a game and petrify the opposing offensive coordinator.      

 

Kerrigan and Orkapo are nice players, but IMO they don't take over and dominate a game.  They don't have a d lineman who IMO dominates.  They clearly don't have a stud in the secondary. Although, in camp some of the young guys apparently are looking good so will see if that translates to the season.

 

Seattle has built an elite defense, SF ditto, but the talent is obvious.   And they do have multiple elite players.  And not all these guys are top ten picks.  Seattle in particular has shown a knack for getting players later in the draft.  The Giants do not seem to need a top 10 pick to find elite pass rushers.  On and on.

 

In short, I think Shanny has a good to great eye as to procuring offensive talent but so far is OK but nothing special as to finding defensive talent and for that matter hiring top level defensive coordinators.    Every team has injuries, yeah the defensive had more than its share last year, but a top 5 when healthy?  that seems a bit crazy.  If I ran with that point than it would be an indictment to the depth, the defense gets hit with some injuries, and they drop from being potentially one of the best to one of the worst?  The Steelers had a lot of injuries on defense last year, and they didn't seem to miss a beat.  

[RG3Hunna]

Not to rehash this thread but I was watching the bengals game and then I remembered Jim Haslett wasn't Shanahans initial choice it was actually Mike Zimmer but he chose to stay with Cinci and there weren't really any D-Coordinators available so shanny went with Haslett and now we're here. lol 

 

Rex Ryan should be available this offseason I wonder if we would go after a coach like Rex to run the defense or does his personality just not mix with what we currently have?

[skins214428hail]

Personally I am not a fan of the 34 defense. I have always thought it was a mistake taking our impressive 43 defense we had when gibbs was here and switching it to this 34 nonsense. What you saw in the titans matchup was no fluke. 34 defense is weak on the outside. Why would you take a guy like rack and stand him up. let him be the pass rushing beast he is all the time. I like the 46 defense the cover 2 anything but this constant challenge of changing players position to fit your scheme. Ask yourself this. Why is it so hard to find 34 linebackers?

[RG3Hunna]

Personally I am not a fan of the 34 defense. I have always thought it was a mistake taking our impressive 43 defense we had when gibbs was here and switching it to this 34 nonsense. What you saw in the titans matchup was no fluke. 34 defense is weak on the outside. Why would you take a guy like rack and stand him up. let him be the pass rushing beast he is all the time. I like the 46 defense the cover 2 anything but this constant challenge of changing players position to fit your scheme. Ask yourself this. Why is it so hard to find 34 linebackers?

The 3-4 gives you flexibility as a defense, it allows you to send crazy blitzes and create more turnovers. The league is a passing league now and the 3-4 gives you the best chance to apply pressure or disguise your pressure. We just have to find players who can fit in the scheme, be patient it'll happen, I mean next year we get our cap back and I'm praying Jairus Byrd is available. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Personally I am not a fan of the 34 defense. I have always thought it was a mistake taking our impressive 43 defense we had when gibbs was here and switching it to this 34 nonsense. What you saw in the titans matchup was no fluke. 34 defense is weak on the outside. Why would you take a guy like rack and stand him up. let him be the pass rushing beast he is all the time. I like the 46 defense the cover 2 anything but this constant challenge of changing players position to fit your scheme. Ask yourself this. Why is it so hard to find 34 linebackers?

Saying that our 4.3 was impressive in 2009 is just factually incorrect. It was impressive in 2004 and 2005. It was somewhat good in 2007. When Greg Blache took over, it went from aggressive to passive. And they really didn't get a lot of new talent, they were stringing along the old talent from 2004. The entire defense needed an overhaul in 2010, whether staying with the 4-3 or switching to the 3-4, really didn't matter so much. They needed 9 new players on defense, with Orakpo and Fletch as really the only 2 holdovers.

Personally, I like the 34, but honestly, it doesn't matter what you run as long as you run it well, and collect talent for it. The Bears have had recent and long term success with the 4-3.

The Steelers have had recent and long term success with the 3-4.

Both teams do an outstanding job understanding what they want to do, and collecting talent to do it.

I prefer the 3-4 because it provides for more variation, and more disguise. If you're going to bring 4 rushers, and you are running the defense correctly, the offense never knows exactly where that 4th rusher is coming from. But the key is having that really strong, space eating NT. The DEs are supposed to be somewhere between a 43 DT and DE, able to get some push, but also stout against the rush. The OLB are supposed to be more athletic than a DE, and able to cover, but also big, strong and fast enough to rush the passer.

I like the flexibility the 34 provides. Assuming that it's run correctly, and with the correct talent.

[planter]

There is little doubt that Shanahan teams are usually better offensively than defensively. Previously this was a fatal flaw but in the modern NFL perhaps not. Re 3-4 vs. 4-3 , there is really not that much difference. It's still about TALENT. If your team has more talented linemen the 4-3 works best. If your team is loaded with talented LB's play the 3-4. To advance in the playoffs teams require both a talented offense AND defense.

[skins214428hail]

Talent does have alot to do with it. I hate to bring up the cowpukes but i think we should be worried about demarcus ware. In a 43 he will be a complete nightmare. Im not sold on any of the skins linebackers except Fletcher. Id much rather see kerrigan on the end and orakpo on the end. Cofield and Bowen inside. Fletch in the middle. LORB/ROLB would need to be adressed. Patrick willis,wilber marshall,mike singletary,monte coleman are the classic guys i like in the true linebacker mold.

[RG3Hunna]

Saying that our 4.3 was impressive in 2009 is just factually incorrect. It was impressive in 2004 and 2005. It was somewhat good in 2007. When Greg Blache took over, it went from aggressive to passive. And they really didn't get a lot of new talent, they were stringing along the old talent from 2004. The entire defense needed an overhaul in 2010, whether staying with the 4-3 or switching to the 3-4, really didn't matter so much. They needed 9 new players on defense, with Orakpo and Fletch as really the only 2 holdovers.

Personally, I like the 34, but honestly, it doesn't matter what you run as long as you run it well, and collect talent for it. The Bears have had recent and long term success with the 4-3.

The Steelers have had recent and long term success with the 4-3.

Both teams do an outstanding job understanding what they want to do, and collecting talent to do it.

I prefer the 3-4 because it provides for more variation, and more disguise. If you're going to bring 4 rushers, and you are running the defense correctly, the offense never knows exactly where that 4th rusher is coming from. But the key is having that really strong, space eating NT. The DEs are supposed to be somewhere between a 43 DT and DE, able to get some push, but also stout against the rush. The OLB are supposed to be more athletic than a DE, and able to cover, but also big, strong and fast enough to rush the passer.

I like the flexibility the 34 provides. Assuming that it's run correctly, and with the correct talent.

I agree with you 100% !!!!! I feel the 3-4 is the right way to go because it gives you more flexibility with your blitzes and that's super important in a passing league. Hopefully we can finally one day get our true 3-4 NT so we can move coefield to DE more and put him at NT every once in a while. 

 

P.S I think you meant 3-4 with Pittsburgh you put 4-3 lol. 

[skins214428hail]

You guys make some valid points. If your like me your tired of watching poor defensive play, Play calling and deep passes scorching our hopes and dreams. I think we need raheem morris calling the plays. Sorry as much as i want to like haz i Feel his best coaching years are behind him.

[gaskinsfan]

Defense is not really Shanny's strong point, when he was in Denver they were never a defense oriented team.

 

This year our pass rush will be better. Run defense probably not as good as last year. Pass defense will be somewhat better, starting two rookies is tough but the better pass rush will help.

 

Why; Not enough high round selections for the defense, and no free agents in the last two years. Hopefully with the cap room they will have in 2014 they can build it up.

[maskedsuperstar]

This "we need a true NT" is ridiculous. Cofield has played well at NT. The Skins were 5th against the run. So why make a change?

Defense is not really Shanny's strong point, when he was in Denver they were never a defense oriented team.

 

This year our pass rush will be better. Run defense probably not as good as last year. Pass defense will be somewhat better, starting two rookies is tough but the better pass rush will help.

 

Why; Not enough high round selections for the defense, and no free agents in the last two years. Hopefully with the cap room they will have in 2014 they can build it up.

Not enough high round selections? That has nothing to do with it.

[Voice_of_Reason]

P.S I think you meant 3-4 with Pittsburgh you put 4-3 lol. 

 

Yep.  Thanks.  Fixed it.

[RG3Hunna]

This "we need a true NT" is ridiculous. Cofield has played well at NT. The Skins were 5th against the run. So why make a change?

Not enough high round selections? That has nothing to do with it.

That stat is skewed, why run against the redskins when you can pass ALL OVER THEM? Sam Bradford and Christian Ponder carved us up both for 310 plus and they are mediocre NFL QBs. 

 

Coefield is not a nose, yes he has played pretty well but he would be a better DE in the 3-4 than NT in the 3-4. He's just not much of a space eater to take double teams for 60 minutes like a 3-4 nose tackle is supposed too. 

 

The question was why hasn't our defense improved and the answer is simple we don't have a 3-4 NT. That's the most important position in the 3-4 next to the pass rushing OLB. You can excell in the 3-4 with mediocre corners if you can apply pressure and collapse the pocket I mean look at the pittsburgh steelers of all these years. Coefield would collapse the pocket more consistently at 3-4 DE rather than 3-4 NT. 

[Laron Burgundy]

That stat is skewed, why run against the redskins when you can pass ALL OVER THEM? Sam Bradford and Christian Ponder carved us up both for 310 plus and they are mediocre NFL QBs. 

 

Coefield is not a nose, yes he has played pretty well but he would be a better DE in the 3-4 than NT in the 3-4. He's just not much of a space eater to take double teams for 60 minutes like a 3-4 nose tackle is supposed too. 

 

The question was why hasn't our defense improved and the answer is simple we don't have a 3-4 NT. That's the most important position in the 3-4 next to the pass rushing OLB. You can excell in the 3-4 with mediocre corners if you can apply pressure and collapse the pocket I mean look at the pittsburgh steelers of all these years. Coefield would collapse the pocket more consistently at 3-4 DE rather than 3-4 NT. 

 

Correction: steelers had top notch safeties, a great pass rush, and corners who were above average; that's how they slowed the passing game down.  I think it's silly to think the NT is THAT important.  San Fran's NT is one of the worst players on that entire unit!  The Arizona and Houston NTs are nothing special either.  

 

The amount of hate Cofield gets on this forum is unreal.  When all is said and done he was probably in the top half of players on our defense last year, but everyone wants him replaced by any NT who is 15 pounds heavier.  He's certainly no Vince Wilfork, but our defense needs a lot more work than just NT.  I think we'd get more improvement on defense by upgrading our DE or ILB than upgrading him.

[MartinC]

Correction: steelers had top notch safeties, a great pass rush, and corners who were above average; that's how they slowed the passing game down.  I think it's silly to think the NT is THAT important.  San Fran's NT is one of the worst players on that entire unit!  The Arizona and Houston NTs are nothing special either.  

 

The amount of hate Cofield gets on this forum is unreal.  When all is said and done he was probably in the top half of players on our defense last year, but everyone wants him replaced by any NT who is 15 pounds heavier.  He's certainly no Vince Wilfork, but our defense needs a lot more work than just NT.  I think we'd get more improvement on defense by upgrading our DE or ILB than upgrading him.

Presumably the talk of replacing Cofield at nose will go away for a while after what he did to the interior of the Steelers line last night. He made a very good centre and 1st round Guard look terrible.

[DeadExField]

Correction: steelers had top notch safeties, a great pass rush, and corners who were above average; that's how they slowed the passing game down.  I think it's silly to think the NT is THAT important.  San Fran's NT is one of the worst players on that entire unit!  The Arizona and Houston NTs are nothing special either.  

 

The amount of hate Cofield gets on this forum is unreal.  When all is said and done he was probably in the top half of players on our defense last year, but everyone wants him replaced by any NT who is 15 pounds heavier.  He's certainly no Vince Wilfork, but our defense needs a lot more work than just NT.  I think we'd get more improvement on defense by upgrading our DE or ILB than upgrading him.

Cofield has become a TOP NT in this league, and has played great for us since he's got here. He's only improved and contributed to the locker room. Dude actually gets in the backfield, as a NT...

 

Aside from that, I'd like to see the young DBs improve in their open field discipline. Alot of them are getting torched out off of simple side steps. A lot of them aren't missing tackles, they're just not tackling at all due to poor angles and timidness. Amerson has showed some decent physicality, though...

[RG3Hunna]

Correction: steelers had top notch safeties, a great pass rush, and corners who were above average; that's how they slowed the passing game down.  I think it's silly to think the NT is THAT important.  San Fran's NT is one of the worst players on that entire unit!  The Arizona and Houston NTs are nothing special either.  

 

The amount of hate Cofield gets on this forum is unreal.  When all is said and done he was probably in the top half of players on our defense last year, but everyone wants him replaced by any NT who is 15 pounds heavier.  He's certainly no Vince Wilfork, but our defense needs a lot more work than just NT.  I think we'd get more improvement on defense by upgrading our DE or ILB than upgrading him.

Who said ANYTHING about replacing or upgrading coefield? that's your problem instead of reading my post you assume I want to get rid of coefield no wonder you responded the way you did. I said Coefield would automatically become almost elite as a DE in the 3-4, yes he dominated at the NT last night but that was against the steelers terrible offensive line they were leaving pouncey on an island against a guy who is bigger faster and quicker in coefield. 

 

I'm not trying to replace or get rid of coefield i'm trying to improve a strength and that's COMPLETELY different from wanting to replace coefield. for example kerrigan has looked like a MONSTER on the line (we were able to do this because we found a pass rushing OLB in Jenkins) while jenkins plays OLB on his hip i'm trying to add more wrinkles to the D, I already know coefield is our best D-Lineman but if you're able to put him at DE some he would dominate against 1 on 1 matchups like he was dominating last night against pouncey. 

[maskedsuperstar]

That stat is skewed, why run against the redskins when you can pass ALL OVER THEM? Sam Bradford and Christian Ponder carved us up both for 310 plus and they are mediocre NFL QBs. 

 

Coefield is not a nose, yes he has played pretty well but he would be a better DE in the 3-4 than NT in the 3-4. He's just not much of a space eater to take double teams for 60 minutes like a 3-4 nose tackle is supposed too. 

 

The question was why hasn't our defense improved and the answer is simple we don't have a 3-4 NT. That's the most important position in the 3-4 next to the pass rushing OLB. You can excell in the 3-4 with mediocre corners if you can apply pressure and collapse the pocket I mean look at the pittsburgh steelers of all these years. Coefield would collapse the pocket more consistently at 3-4 DE rather than 3-4 NT. 

You can't excell in any aggressive defense with mediocre corners. Haz likes to bring blitzes. But if the corners can't cover, Haz can't be as aggressive. And the fact that Orakpo was injured didn't help.

Where does the pressure come from in a 3-4 defense?

[maskedsuperstar]

Personally I am not a fan of the 34 defense. I have always thought it was a mistake taking our impressive 43 defense we had when gibbs was here and switching it to this 34 nonsense. What you saw in the titans matchup was no fluke. 34 defense is weak on the outside. Why would you take a guy like rack and stand him up. let him be the pass rushing beast he is all the time. I like the 46 defense the cover 2 anything but this constant challenge of changing players position to fit your scheme. Ask yourself this. Why is it so hard to find 34 linebackers?

The Skins defense under Gibbs was good but not in same league as the Ravens or Steelers. Lets be for real. 34 defense is not weak on the outside. If a player misses an assignment, any defense would get burned. Orakpo took a bad angle, going to the QB. Thats on him, not the 34. Orakpo does go after the QB.

Its not hard to find 3-4 linebackers. Watch more college football. They are everywhere now. More colleges are playing the 34 defense now.

[maskedsuperstar]

All the reasoning I need for why Has sucks is this.....

 

3rd&21.....

Is that on Has or Hall? I seem to remember Hall blowing an assignment.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

Who said ANYTHING about replacing or upgrading coefield? that's your problem instead of reading my post you assume I want to get rid of coefield no wonder you responded the way you did. I said Coefield would automatically become almost elite as a DE in the 3-4, yes he dominated at the NT last night but that was against the steelers terrible offensive line they were leaving pouncey on an island against a guy who is bigger faster and quicker in coefield. 

 

I'm not trying to replace or get rid of coefield i'm trying to improve a strength and that's COMPLETELY different from wanting to replace coefield. for example kerrigan has looked like a MONSTER on the line (we were able to do this because we found a pass rushing OLB in Jenkins) while jenkins plays OLB on his hip i'm trying to add more wrinkles to the D, I already know coefield is our best D-Lineman but if you're able to put him at DE some he would dominate against 1 on 1 matchups like he was dominating last night against pouncey. 

Did you ever think that maybe Cofield has no desire of converting back to the DE position? Considering what we saw last night from Cofield and how dominant he looked against the Steelers, why would you even consider something like that?  He is now coming into his own at the NT position much like how Wilfork clogged that middle for the Patties.  Say what you want about the Steelers Oline, but the pass rush and protection are not mutually exclusive... they go hand in hand.

[maskedsuperstar]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/54690/redskins-vs-steelers-ten-observations

 

Lets just put the Cofield to DE mess, to rest.