Bang Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 And let's face it: If MJ gets legalized tomorrow, there will still be organized crime. In other drugs, in other crimes. Maybe they take over the garbage business, or some such. >coughcough<BANKS>hackcough< ~Barf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Criminal organizations, when a product of theirs becomes legal and readily available (as MJ has in areas where it is legal) either have to move elsewhere where they can still profit of the illegality, transfer into a legitimate business, or switch/focus on a different illegal product. I believe anyone one of those would move MJ farming out of the mountains, or lead to federal regulations preventing over production and environmental harm up there and in other places. At the very least the problem would be reduced when you consider that the problem has worsened under its current illegal status and has proven that it won't likely be eradicated. I'm gonna go with this answer and even pick the drug: meth. This area is also a major meth production area, although I don't know what level the cartels are involved with that trade in this particular area. From what I understand, the meth cookers are a lot of low level, local drug dealers doing relatively small production, but they're all over the forest here. In fact, we found out our neighbors were involved with meth production about 4 years ago when their house, about 1/2 mile down river from our property, blew up. I'm talking massive explosion that started surrounding trees on fire. My bro was at the river house at the time and started spraying down our roof and that far side of the property for fear it was going to spread and take out our place. Fortunately firefighters and Forest Service responded quickly enough to put out the flames without any further damage beyond those dumbasses' property. Anyway, we later found out it was a meth house and obviously they screwed up at some point in their production. For the record, I swear this is a lovely, scenic area, lol. Just a lot of "van down by the river" people as well as drug producers like to live in heavily wooded, remote areas...so they can roll doobies or whatever they like to do. Anyway, I'm sure the legalization will shift the cartels' business direction, but I'm going to go with them tapping more into the illegal meth trade based on the market they have in NoCal and southern Oregon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 That's awful Special K. I just moved back from TN after living there for the past 6 years and they have serious problems with meth too. It is an ugly drug. That's a good point you bring up that cartel and other drug dealers could switch to another product, a possibility I and Bang also mentioned, especially with the seclusion of the mountains. At least with MJ legalized there would be less people to focus on, but either way the actions of growers and cooks are certainly inexcusable. Until laws are changed, either a bunch of lawful citizens will have to raise a bunch of noise during an election cycle when politicians' jobs are on the line, or some tragedy will have to occur to rile the whole population and rally them behind the cause. Hopefully it's the first one, because I would hate to have to deal with cartel/drug dealers at a vacation spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 There will always be something for the junkies among us, and there will always be people who are so afraid of reality that they will be junkies. It's bad, but it's a fact since the beginnings of civilization. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 There will always be something for the junkies among us, and there will always be people who are so afraid of reality that they will be junkies. It's bad, but it's a fact since the beginnings of civilization. ~Bang Like Cowboys fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 That's awful Special K. I just moved back from TN after living there for the past 6 years and they have serious problems with meth too. It is an ugly drug. That's a good point you bring up that cartel and other drug dealers could switch to another product, a possibility I and Bang also mentioned, especially with the seclusion of the mountains. At least with MJ legalized there would be less people to focus on, but either way the actions of growers and cooks are certainly inexcusable. Until laws are changed, either a bunch of lawful citizens will have to raise a bunch of noise during an election cycle when politicians' jobs are on the line, or some tragedy will have to occur to rile the whole population and rally them behind the cause. Hopefully it's the first one, because I would hate to have to deal with cartel/drug dealers at a vacation spot. It's just part of the culture in this area, particularly in the Klamath National Forest and along the Klamath River, so we are kind of used to it. Pretty much if you stay away from them, they aren't going to do anything to you. The farms are in very remote areas that people aren't normally visiting or hiking through; I haven't even heard of a confrontation having occurred between a non-law enforcement authority and a grower or dealer. The only things that come down to the river are the diversions and usually those aren't on private homeowners' properties. So, overall, it's not like any of us are in fear when we're rafting or kayaking down the the river, it's just frustrating and it would be nice if the MJ issue was at least acknowledged by our federal government. I agree that it is a much less potent and dangerous drug than all the other illegal drugs and I'm now open to the decriminalization or legalization discussion because I really would like to focus on other illegal substances. In the meantime, while we wait for the government to get it's crap together, it's pretty funny to raft by the old meth house where only the chimney's still standing and telling the story to our friends along with my brother's famous reenactment of his reaction to the explosion, hahaha There will always be something for the junkies among us, and there will always be people who are so afraid of reality that they will be junkies. It's bad, but it's a fact since the beginnings of civilization. ~Bang This be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 figure this is worth a bump Pot farmers vs. the environment In May, Butte County Supervisor Bill Connelly sought to enlist the aid of the California Regional Water Quality Control Board, which has the power to levy fines for water discharge violations. Citing the huge sums of money involved in marijuana operations and the lawlessness, Pamela Creedon, the water board's executive director, was not eager to join the campaign. "As you may know," she wrote, "our enforcement staff are not peace officers and as such do not have the requisite training to deal with the myriad potential issues related to site visits to these operations. We simply cannot, in good conscience, put staff in harm's way." Creedon said in an interview that Butte County growers likely are violating water laws. Certainly, the board has hammered farmers of more traditional crops, including levying $300,000 on a Stanislaus County almond grower who fouled water by illegally grading his land. But water board inspectors aren't armed. An order that pot growers pay to clean up their messes won't have much impact if they don't obey other laws, Creedon said. Logue has seized on the response, asking: "Why are we letting them continue to damage our water quality, when strict guidelines are placed on the farmers across the state, like the timber industry and grape growers?" Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2013/08/16/3156898/dan-morain-pot-farmers-vs-the.html#storylink=cpy http://media.mercedsunstar.com/smedia/2013/08/09/18/48/14aITV.AuSt.111.jpeg . . Drug cartels, illegal pot farmers and even some legal growers have shown little concern for laws such as the Clean Water Act or the California Environmental Quality Act. I got a firsthand account last week on a ridealong with the Butte County Sheriff's Office. What I saw was horrific. Chemicals poured all over the ground seeping into the creeks and lakes. Bulldozers stripped away entire portions of mountains. Brush, trees rooted out and tossed into huge piles. The land was completely stripped bare. I've joined with local officials asking state regulators to act, and charge pot growers with violations of water regulations that carry tough penalties. In a response to a letter by local county supervisors asking for a pot farm crackdown, the executive director of the Central Valley Regional Water Quality Control Board wrote, "We simply cannot, in good conscience, put staff in harm's way." I understand and support the need for the safe environment for state employees to do their job. But in this case the agency refused to inspect violations without conferring with law enforcement input as to whether it is safe to inspect certain sites. The Butte County Sheriff's Office stated to me that it can ensure the safety of all inspectors to do their job. The office was surprised by the agency's statement. It doesn't seem that the Central Valley board has a policy for investigating violations involving the cultivation of marijuana. In contrast, the North Coast Regional Water Quality Control Board does go after similar violators in its own region. For example, it prosecutes pot farmers who contaminate streams and flatten hilltops. Read more here: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2013/08/18/3157063/water-regulators-must-target-pot.html#storylink=cpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Legalization would free up a lot of resources at the local, state, and even national levels to re-focus on the issues of environmental impact of careless growers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 it is legal there....not the raping of the environment, but the crops are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 it is legal there....not the raping of the environment, but the crops are It is not fully legal there and the federal presence has decided to occupy themselves with closing down dispensaries deemed legal by the state. Plus it is still illegal in most states, so those armed drug cartels are able to stick around. What legal crops are there that present the same enforcement issues? None as far as I know. The fines and enforcement of clean growing methods can't be upheld due to armed growers. Those growers are armed because of cartels and robbery, all existent because of the illegal network that exists outside of the state and still to a small degree within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I've gotten offers again to move out there for season and pick. The money is off the hook. 3/4 grand a week for 3 months. I'm signing a one year contract here at the sustainable farming institute, so maybe next year I can go help create a permaculture styled pot farm and help fix the environmental problems. I can't even smoke weed anymore. I get so useless the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSW Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Basically anything that stands in the way of MJ users getting their fix is going to be a problem for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Their "Fix". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 interesting http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_23986627/rim-fire-did-illegal-marijuana-growers-start-blaze Investigators searching for answers into what caused the massive wildfire burning in and around Yosemite National Park have made some headway, fire officials said Friday. Most authorities are mum about the details, but one fire official in Tuolumne County offered a tantalizing clue when he recently told a community meeting that the fire was likely caused by marijuana growers. "We don't know the exact cause," said Todd McNeal, fire chief in Twain Harte, a town that has been in the path of the flames. But he told a community meeting that it was "highly suspect that there might have been some sort of illicit grove, a marijuana-grow-type thing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Marijuana is pretty easy to grow for personal use though. If it was legal, anyone could basically pick up a potted plant and put it in their window or plant it in their yard. Of course the better the care, more sophisticated the operation, the better the results may be, but I've known plenty a folks who did pretty decent with a high powered light bulb in the closet and not much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 "We don't know the exact cause," said Todd McNeal, fire chief in Twain Harte, a town that has been in the path of the flames. But he told a community meeting that it was "highly suspect that there might have been some sort of illicit grove, a marijuana-grow-type thing." Translation: We don't know what caused it so let's just blame the weed! Seems legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Marijuana is pretty easy to grow for personal use though. If it was legal, anyone could basically pick up a potted plant and put it in their window or plant it in their yard. Of course the better the care, more sophisticated the operation, the better the results may be, but I've known plenty a folks who did pretty decent with a high powered light bulb in the closet and not much else. pretty common for home operations to have house fires as well, not that grow lights are that dangerous,more the stoners kinda like deep frying turkeys (evil grin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 or smoking cigarettes.. plenty of idiots burn their houses down because of it. Smoking tobacco doesn't even give a buzz to give them an excuse. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 or smoking cigarettes.. plenty of idiots burn their houses down because of it. Smoking tobacco doesn't even give a buzz to give them an excuse. ~Bang they were probably weed smokers , though with the price of cigarettes homegrown is getting more popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Lightning, marijuana ruled out as causes of Rim Fire http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/05/yosemite-rim-fire-marijuana/2770045/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Now see? You start making pot legal, and pretty soon all sorts of kids .. will be doing it? http://news.yahoo.com/drug-drops-americas-youth-rises-over-50-crowd-202408530--abc-news-topstories.html Drug use among America's youth is dropping, but it's booming among people over 50, a U.S. government survey released Wednesday shows. Last year, the rate of illicit drug use among children and teenagers 12 to 17 years old dropped to 9.5 percent, down from 11.6 percent a decade earlier, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's (SAMHSA) latest national survey. Meanwhile, illicit drug use among adults 50 to 64 years old has increased in the past decade. Specifically, illicit drug use among adults 50 to 54 has more than doubled since 2002, reaching 7.2 percent last year. For people 55 to 59, such drug use has more than tripled, reaching 6.6 percent last year. More at link Won't someone PLEASE think of the grandparents??? I have an idea. Rather than coming up with some bull**** study to refute this revelation (which refutes the primary fear of the non-pot crowd), how about we just be sensible and get rid of these stupid laws?Legal regulation will keep it out of more underage hands than criminalization. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabR Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Nothing causes zero impact. I live in Maryland. Does anyone know what the chicken industry does to the surrounding environment? agreed on that take for example crab pots. After a few months in the water they are covered in thick algea growth, they have to be taken out a pressure washed. In the 30's there was not any growth on the pots.I used to go to point lookout as a kid and walk out to waste deep waters and scoop oysters and crabs, now i cant see the bottom. Look at the crabs they have going down in population every year and this year it has plunged. Many things have contributed to this but a main reason is the lack of bottom grasses for the young to hide in. the water is so filled with junk that it settles on the bottom grasses and kills them Purdue lobbies any and all legislation and contributes mighty to politicians to prevent any pollution regulations that will affect his chicken crap So where is the outrage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 agreed on that take for example crab pots. After a few months in the water they are covered in thick algea growth, they have to be taken out a pressure washed. In the 30's there was not any growth on the pots.I used to go to point lookout as a kid and walk out to waste deep waters and scoop oysters and crabs, now i cant see the bottom. Look at the crabs they have going down in population every year and this year it has plunged. Many things have contributed to this but a main reason is the lack of bottom grasses for the young to hide in. the water is so filled with junk that it settles on the bottom grasses and kills them Purdue lobbies any and all legislation and contributes mighty to politicians to prevent any pollution regulations that will affect his chicken crap So where is the outrage It is all reserved for Michael Vick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 It is all reserved for Michael Vick chickens are foul, eat more beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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