PFT: Eagles Hire Chip Kelly

[darrelgreenie]

We get it, you're a Chip Kelly fan. The Eagles do not have the players to run the scheme plain and simple.

Actually I'm not really of Chip Kelly as much as i'm a fan of innovation. And I like talking football Xs and Os.

Also how can you say the Eagles don't have the weapons when you nor anyone else can say with certainty what the scheme will be? Here's what we can know right now about the scheme:

o it will be up tempo and run more plays

o it will focus on running the ball more

Kelly knows how to execute no huddle offense and as improving in the running game should be easily accomplished considering:

o They have Shady McCoy and Bryce Brown

o the team was middle of the pack in rushing yards and top 10 in YPC despite having a beat up OL and a HC that wasn't really all that fond of running the ball

You won't accept the evidence from previous NCAA coaching failures, even though the history is there for a reason

Because its anecdotal evidence that excludes all the coaches with previous NFL coaching/HC/coordinating experience that also fail. It also excludes college coaches that have success.

but because Bellicheck asked for some scheme advice (I'm sure he's the only HC who has ever done that) Kelly is going to set the NFL on fire.....right. No bias here, carry on

Don't degrade this discussion with strawmen arguments/false claims/fabrication. Doing that is akin to lying.

Please quote where I've said anything remotely close to:

...Bellicheck asked for some scheme advice Kelly is going to set the NFL on fire..

You completely made this part up.

Don't fictionalize my point when it is clearly stated:

Coaches don't succeed or fail because they're from college or not from college. Coaches fail or succeed because they're have a sound scheme, can relate to their players, put together a good coaching staff, have a good front office, have good players etc.

[Tweedr01]

Actually I'm not really of Chip Kelly as much as i'm a fan of innovation. And I like talking football Xs and Os.

Also how can you say the Eagles don't have the weapons when you nor anyone else can say with certainty what the scheme will be? Here's what we can know right now about the scheme:

o it will be up tempo and run more plays

o it will focus on running the ball more:

Let me turn this around for you, how can you say they do have weapons when you don't know what the scheme will be? It may try to be up tempo, but if the Eagles suck it won't matter, it will be a bunch of quick 3 and outs. You can only focus on running the ball more if you can, you know, run the ball. Shady McCoy is good, but his line sucks, and you as a Redskins fan should know better than anyone what a bad o-line will do to a running game.

Kelly knows how to execute no huddle offense and as improving in the running game should be easily accomplished considering:

o They have Shady McCoy and Bryce Brown

o the team was middle of the pack in rushing yards and top 10 in YPC despite having a beat up OL and a HC that wasn't really all that fond of running the ball:

Kelly knows how to execute a no-huddle offense with college personnel, little different when you are going up against a professional defense. These aren't some spring chickens they are going against, or have you forgotten how terribly Spurrier's game translated to the NFL? Just because Tom freaking Brady can run it doesn't mean Michael Vick or Nick Foles can. Shady McCoy is good, Bryce Brown hasn't proved jack yet. Why in the world would people be trying to stop their run when they are up by 20 points on them? Shady McCoy is good again, but the defenses knew that if the birds wanted to score, they would have to do it through the air. There's your explanation, it's pretty simple. If he runs 9 times a game for 60 yards, yeah, he's got 6.5 a pop. That's great in a vaccuum, but in context they only got those rushes when the game was out of hand.

Because its anecdotal evidence that excludes all the coaches with previous NFL coaching/HC/coordinating experience that also fail. It also excludes college coaches that have success.

Don't degrade this discussion with strawmen arguments/false claims/fabrication. Doing that is akin to lying.

Please quote where I've said anything remotely close to: You completely made this part up.

Don't fictionalize my point when it is clearly stated:

Yeah, uh, way to rationalize your point. You don't agree with me, that makes you a liar. You have been touting how big of a deal it was for Bellicheck to ask Kelly for advice, woohoo, that hasn't ever happened ever. You realize that any offense Tom Brady runs is going to run well right? You think if they asked Brandon Weeden to do it he would have the same success? If you want people to take you seriously then stop bringing up Bellicheck asking for Kelly's help, you brought that up, I just explained to you that it doesn't matter. You imply that Kelly will succeed because NFL coaches asked him about his system. Your point is fictional. You already believe Kelly will make the Eagles great, it hasn't happened, so that is fictional. And BTW, you bring up the coaching staff they put together, did you even see the presser he did about the random coaching picks he made? No one, ever, has succeeded in the way he has picked his staff. His players aren't mentally tough enough to grasp any of this offense, and that is all the evidence needed. Players still do the playing.

[Zazzaro703]

Current NFL offenses are borrowing concepts from the type of offense Chip Kelly ran.

From the Patriots to 49ers and our very own Burgundy and Gold are successfully using concepts from uptempo, read option and spread concepts.

Yet, for whatever reason people assume that Chip Kelly will fail despite the fact that NFL coaches are borrowing some of their concepts from him.

What? Redskins got most of their pistol read option offense from Nevada and Kaepernick. At least it sure looks the same as living out in lake tahoe i got to watch UNR a few years ago while Kaepernick was running it here with Ault, the founder of the pistol offense.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/dec/28/unr-football-coach-chris-ault-retiring/

"Perhaps his most famous contribution came late in his career, when he invented the Pistol offense in 2005, a scheme now employed by hundreds of teams at every level of football.

The Pistol formation has the quarterback in a short shot-gun formation with a running back lined up directly behind him."

Knowing Extremeskins im shocked we don't have an internet MeMe thread of the play card pictures Kelly will hold up for the eagles. A Walrus looking confused at a play clock signaling timeout? A fighting dog? A WR in a ballerina Tutu? The possibilites are endless.

[darrelgreenie]

What? Redskins got most of their pistol read option offense from Nevada and Kaepernick. At least it sure looks the same as living out in lake tahoe i got to watch UNR a few years ago while Kaepernick was running it here with Ault, the founder of the pistol offense.

Quite right that the pistol comes from Chris Ault. But, the read option concept has been around forever. Read option is simply a play that allows the QB to 'read' a defender instead of having an offensive player 'block' them. The read option concept isn't unique to the pistol offense and Ault didn't add read option to the pistol until later.

One concept that we borrowed from Kelly (and other zone/option offenses) was evident in week 1 vs the Saints where we used 'packaged plays'. A packaged play is really multiple plays, multiple different plays rolled into the same play. Here is a good article on us using packaged plays:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/9/14/3332952/poise-and-packaged-plays

Below is a link to an article about Oregon's offense here is blurb about their use of packaged plays:

On the play against Wisconsin, Kelly packaged an inside zone running play with a "zone read triple option" to the backside.

http://smartfootball.com/offense/combining-quick-passes-run-plays-and-screens-in-the-same-play

---------- Post added February-14th-2013 at 07:52 PM ----------

... You can only focus on running the ball more if you can, you know, run the ball. Shady McCoy is good, but his line sucks

The Eagles were middle of the pack in rushing yards and top 10 in YPC despite having a beat up OL and a HC that wasn't really all that fond of running the ball.

Kelly knows how to execute a no-huddle offense with college personnel, little different when you are going up against a professional defense.

If uptempo doesn't translate to the NFL then why did Bellichick pursue Kelly to help him install it?

Yeah, uh, way to rationalize your point. You don't agree with me, that makes you a liar. You have been touting how big of a deal it was for Bellicheck to ask Kelly for advice, woohoo, that hasn't ever happened ever. You realize that any offense Tom Brady runs is going to run well right? You think if they asked Brandon Weeden to do it he would have the same success? If you want people to take you seriously then stop bringing up Bellicheck asking for Kelly's help, you brought that up, I just explained to you that it doesn't matter. You imply that Kelly will succeed because NFL coaches asked him about his system. Your point is fictional. You already believe Kelly will make the Eagles great, it hasn't happened, so that is fictional. And BTW, you bring up the coaching staff they put together, did you even see the presser he did about the random coaching picks he made? No one, ever, has succeeded in the way he has picked his staff. His players aren't mentally tough enough to grasp any of this offense, and that is all the evidence needed. Players still do the playing.

Brilliant reponse. Simply brilliant. Don't bother responding to any more of my posts because you're actually not even responding to my statements anyway. You're responding to some mythical post you've invented that exsists only in your head.

Cheers!

[Tweedr01]

The Eagles were middle of the pack in rushing yards and top 10 in YPC despite having a beat up OL and a HC that wasn't really all that fond of running the ball.

Funny how you didn't include the part of my post where I explained to you why they even had those numbers in the first place.

If uptempo doesn't translate to the NFL then why did Bellichick pursue Kelly to help him install it?

BECAUSE BELLICHECK HAS TOM BRADY AS HIS QB. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that for you. The Patriots can run any offense they please because they have a HOF QB, do you not get that? Just because the birds will run an up tempo offense doesn't mean they are going to get any first downs, you still need talent, and they don't have enough.

Brilliant reponse. Simply brilliant. Don't bother responding to any more of my posts because you're actually not even responding to my statements anyway. You're responding to some mythical post you've invented that exsists only in your head.

Cheers!

And the pot said to the kettle "YOU'RE BLACK!" Get off your high horse, I'm actually responding to your entire post instead of cherry picking sentence fragments and replying to them out of context. Love the end of your last couple of posts: you don't agree with me so you're a liar, and don't bother responding to me because I don't like your response. You must win a lot of arguments that way.

[Hitman21ST]

Funny how you didn't include the part of my post where I explained to you why they even had those numbers in the first place.

Yeah, Shady. But if they were middle of the road in total yards and top 10 in ypc with a coach that doesn't like to run the ball, what do you think will happen with a coach that runs the ball a lot?

BECAUSE BELLICHECK HAS TOM BRADY AS HIS QB. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make that for you. The Patriots can run any offense they please because they have a HOF QB, do you not get that? Just because the birds will run an up tempo offense doesn't mean they are going to get any first downs, you still need talent, and they don't have enough.

You're missing the point. You said up-tempo doesn't work in the NFL, because pro defenses are a lot faster. For all his faults, Belichick does know what works in the NFL. If Belichick is going to Kelly to install some up-tempo stuff, then those concepts will work.

[Tweedr01]

Yeah, Shady. But if they were middle of the road in total yards and top 10 in ypc with a coach that doesn't like to run the ball, what do you think will happen with a coach that runs the ball a lot?

I'm not sure, when Marion the Librarian started getting more carries we found out he couldn't handle the load. I'm sure they will run more often, but Shady will be getting hit more often as well, and he's smaller than the Librarian by about 15 lbs. He should get more yards, no doubt, but if they are playing from behind how often do you think they are going to run? Plus it takes time to implement your system, especially when it's brand new to everyone on the team except for Dennis Dixon (they did pick him up right?).

You're missing the point. You said up-tempo doesn't work in the NFL, because pro defenses are a lot faster. For all his faults, Belichick does know what works in the NFL. If Belichick is going to Kelly to install some up-tempo stuff, then those concepts will work.

Well, what I said was that Kelly was coaching against college personnel, he will now be going up against pro personnel. I'm not saying that the up tempo offense won't work in the NFL, what I mean is that Kelly isn't going to seamlessly transfer to the NFL and have the same success he had in college. The talent is not there in Philthy yet. He makes the comparison that Bellicheck can run it, so can Kelly....well that's not necessarily true. Do you think Vick, Foles, or Dixon are as good as Brady? I mean, they still have to complete the passes, they have to be able to go down the field to make this system work. If they can't convert, then it's not up tempo anymore, or it is for all of the :45 seconds it runs off the clock.

[Hitman21ST]

Well, what I said was that Kelly was coaching against college personnel, he will now be going up against pro personnel. I'm not saying that the up tempo offense won't work in the NFL, what I mean is that Kelly isn't going to seamlessly transfer to the NFL and have the same success he had in college. The talent is not there in Philthy yet. He makes the comparison that Bellicheck can run it, so can Kelly....well that's not necessarily true. Do you think Vick, Foles, or Dixon are as good as Brady? I mean, they still have to complete the passes, they have to be able to go down the field to make this system work. If they can't convert, then it's not up tempo anymore, or it is for all of the :45 seconds it runs off the clock.

They might not be able to complete the passes like Brady, but Kelly's offense has the QB running a lot. Can Brady run like Vick or Dixon?

[Tweedr01]

They might not be able to complete the passes like Brady, but Kelly's offense has the QB running a lot. Can Brady run like Vick or Dixon?

That wasn't the part of the offense that Bellicheck implemented into his offense, but the answer is a definite no. Vick may be able to scramble, but he has never run an offense like Kelly's, and he has injury issues. How many times do you think Vick will run before he has a concussion/cracked ribs/broken collarbone, or before he fumbles the ball away, which he has a history of. Dixon I believe is a 6th round draft pick....that is about the only thing him and Brady have in common. If Dixon was any good he probably would have been a starter in the NFL, last year would have been his prime year as the read option became popular. He is still practice team fodder.

I don't believe Kelly is a bad coach at all, his schemes have been used by many, but many that had the talent to do so. The only talent they have on that team is at WR and RB, they need a QB, without it they won't be successful running the offense.

[Zazzaro703]

Quite right that the pistol comes from Chris Ault. But, the read option concept has been around forever. Read option is simply a play that allows the QB to 'read' a defender instead of having an offensive player 'block' them. The read option concept isn't unique to the pistol offense and Ault didn't add read option to the pistol until later.

One concept that we borrowed from Kelly (and other zone/option offenses) was evident in week 1 vs the Saints where we used 'packaged plays'. A packaged play is really multiple plays, multiple different plays rolled into the same play. Here is a good article on us using packaged plays:

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/9/14/3332952/poise-and-packaged-plays

Below is a link to an article about Oregon's offense here is blurb about their use of packaged plays:

http://smartfootball.com/offense/combining-quick-passes-run-plays-and-screens-in-the-same-play

Cheers!

Ah ok, i just thought we ran most our read option out of the pistol with all the motions but have nothing to back that up other than memory so could be way off. But, that's actually the offense UNR ran. Either way, I'm not scared of an NFL offense led by Chip Kelly. Actually, if we upgrade our secondary to at least a collegiate level..... THEN im not afraid of Chip Kelly led NFL offense and the Redskins wont be either.

[Tweedr01]

Ah ok, i just thought we ran most our read option out of the pistol with all the motions but have nothing to back that up other than memory so could be way off. But, that's actually the offense UNR ran. Either way, I'm not scared of an NFL offense led by Chip Kelly. Actually, if we upgrade our secondary to at least a collegiate level..... THEN im not afraid of Chip Kelly led NFL offense and the Redskins wont be either.

This^

[darrelgreenie]

Ah ok, i just thought we ran most our read option out of the pistol with all the motions but have nothing to back that up other than memory so could be way off. But, that's actually the offense UNR ran. Either way, I'm not scared of an NFL offense led by Chip Kelly. Actually, if we upgrade our secondary to at least a collegiate level..... THEN im not afraid of Chip Kelly led NFL offense and the Redskins wont be either.

Who is scared? *shrugs*

[Warhead36]

Chip Kelly signing Dennis Dixon reminds me of the ol' ball coach signing all those ex Gators. That sure worked out well for us.

[No_Pressure]

Now all we need is for the Eagles to play the Jaguars to open pre-season in a foreign country, and for Chip to send Dixon out as his starting QB. He'll throw for 400 yards and 5 touchdowns, everyone in Philadelphia will be talking about how "I mean...I know it's just pre-season but C'MON MAN DID YOU SEE THAT? WHOA! WE'RE GONNA BE AWESOME!!!"

Then they'll play a pre-season game against a decent team like the Bengals, go down by 7-10 points in the 3rd quarter, and Chip will send his starters back onto the field to win it! 4-0 pre-season baby! They'll narrowly escape week 1 with a victory over a weak opponent, then they'll play a division rival such as the...erm....Redskins...and lose 37-7 with their only 7 coming on a punt return for a TD by some other Oregon alumni Chip Kelly hires.

Okay so maybe that's just my dream...it's funny though, I talk to a lot of Eagles fans up here and ask them what they think about the Chip hiring, and I hear the same thing "uhh well I dunno, he could be great or he could be terrible, I have no idea what we're getting out of this guy" then I usually say "I dunno, I could see him becoming Steve Spurrier 2.0..." when I say that it's like all the joy leaves their faces as they sigh and respond "yeah.....yeah he could, couldn't he?"

I hope this guy doesn't actually do well.

[Koolblue13]

It'll be strange to see the Eagles with a power running game. Been a long time.

I don't see why Philly won't have success with him. It'll take a few years, because I don't think they have any of the personnel though.

[darrelgreenie]

It'll be strange to see the Eagles with a power running game. Been a long time.

Kelly's focus on the running game is going to be a departure from the decidedly pass focused Reid.

I don't see why Philly won't have success with him. It'll take a few years, because I don't think they have any of the personnel though.

I don't see why they wouldn't be good right away IF they can draft/sign a RT in FA.

The teams that added read-option concepts were able to install them over the course of an offseason (Burgundy & Gold, Panthers) or on the fly during the season like (Seattle, 49ers, Miami (to a very limited extent). Likewise the Patriots installed their up-tempo offense during the offseason. These teams had to reach out to or study other teams, sometimes college teams like Nevada and Oregon to install their concepts.

Unlike those teams Kelly won't have to research very much nor reach out to or study other teams because (for lack of a better term) he is the subject matter expert.

Kelly's obstacle is going to be getting the team to 'buy in' and deciding how much of spread option to run. Will they be all spread option all the time? Will they be a WCO that sprinkles in spread option?

I think hiring Pat Shurmur was smart for 2 reasons. And its not because Shurmur is innovative or anything like that. I think signing Shurmur was smart because:

(a) he knows the Eagles and their WCO from having been a coach under and Reid. He should be able to 'translate' the Eagles offense into Kelly's verbiage and vice versa.

Shurmur

( he knows how to install/put together an run offense from both the OC and the HC perspective

[Big Weirdo]

Chip Kelly Green

Go Eagles

[darrelgreenie]

BTW-The Eagles ran 90 plays vs the Patriots and

[NoCalMike]

Do the Eagles have the right type of RB for a power running game?

 

So far they have a QB & #1 WR (or did Maclin official takeover as #1) who are injury prone. 

[Hitman21ST]

It'll be strange to see the Eagles with a power running game. Been a long time.

I don't see why Philly won't have success with him. It'll take a few years, because I don't think they have any of the personnel though.

 

I wouldn't really call Chip Kelly a "power" run game. Gibbs had a power game, where it was hat on hat for the OL and the RBs ran dives, counters, and the like.

 

Kelly runs a lot of inside and outside zone (at least he did at Oregon), much more so than your traditional "power" run game.

[Hooper]

Hate the Eagles. 

 

Love Chip Kelly.

 

Love the tempo of his offense. Fun to watch. Looks fun to play in too.

 

Going to be interesting. Not sure if he has the personnel to win a bunch of games in year one, but you're going to see a lot of teams gassed against the Eagles -- especially early on.