Monte51Coleman Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Manufacturing is up, ownership is up. Murders are down, non-fatal injuries are up. Seems like an accuracy issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikered30 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 You can read reams of what some one writes, yet also get very significant components of their thinking in one line. http://www.mrctv.org/videos/feinstein-discussing-assault-weapons-ban-95-if-i-could-have-gotten-votes-outright-ban-i-would-have-done-it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 http://www.mrctv.org/videos/feinstein-discussing-assault-weapons-ban-95-if-i-could-have-gotten-votes-outright-ban-i-would-have-done-it Really? You want to go dumb on me? Ok. Let me get some big sheets of paper and a crayon. Some or many liberals. Not "liberals." Among other things, its goes to base thinking and bias and partisan politicizing of almost all topics as a precursor to evaluation. Nor did I say anything (ever) like "No liberals want any form of gun control." I usually leave "dumbass" to others. And for the record, the clip is simply her long-held well-known position (and that of many others, to be sure) on banning what the committee called assault weapons--not "disarming society." Next time, though, don't respond to one of my posts with stupid. Don't assume you're going to "point something out" to me that's so obvious and simplistic, yet that I'd have somehow been unaware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 You can read reams of what some one writes, yet also get very significant components of their thinking in one line. Hey at least I am honest about my personal opinion of liberals and guns. I am not stating it as a fact. Just my personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Do I think that liberals want to disarm society, yes.. You keep saying things like this. It's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 You keep saying things like this. It's not true. Sometimes I am amazed at the lack of reading comprehension skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 you mean straw purchasers?....the ones that already buy from licensed dealers?unlicensed dealers are ATF business(when they are not busy running guns to Mexico) So, i am a licensed gun dealer who's selling guns at my local gun show. Guy says he'd like to buy 12 glocks cash, but he doesn't want to deal with the paperwork. Gun dealer "sells" himself the guns, knowing he can satisfy the background check, goes outside and sells the guy his bag of guns with no check because he's a private owner. The biggest issue with the obtuse manner in which the right conducts this argument is this notion that the 'crooks get guns no matter what"... and 'crooks never follow the rules, chuckle chuckle chuckle" and they stop right there. Because, as we all know, criminals can conjure guns out of thin air, and these all-powerful "Unlicensed dealers" love these gun conjurers, because they can continue to sell guns to criminals without anyone having the slightest clue how they got the guns they illegally sell. But of course, no one is that stupid, and no one could argue such a premise, although given enough paint and a small enough corner to put yourself in, you might give it a go. The unlicensed dealer gets the guns from A/ other criminals selling guns B/ factory direct. if it's A/ Those criminals are getting the guns from A/ more criminals B/ factory direct. This could go on all day until it is realized that crooks and unlicensed dealers do not get their weapons from the factory, Smith and Wesson do not have an under the table sales division.. .and yet somehow these guns get from the factory to the criminal. Originally they come from someone somewhere. They don't just materialize. And in this day and age of forensics being able to nab a person from a hair fiber left three months ago, this idea that we're so helpless that we can't trace back a gun to find out who initially put it on it's path to being sold by illegal sellers and criminals because "crooks don't follow rules".. it's an total sham, a completely disingenuous and dishonest argument. this is a chain that can be severely disrupted, if not for paid off politicians and lobbies pulling their strings. Making it easy for the criminals... seemingly on purpose. and the worst of it, is disrupting this chain would INSURE gun rights and decrease calls for so much gun control. People won't be so keen to change a system that works. It would make it harder for the criminal, and make it easier for the avg gun owner.. if not for a little more paperwork. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hey at least I am honest about my personal opinion of liberals and guns. I am not stating it as a fact. Just my personal opinion. Hey, we disagree on various matters and have a lot of common ground too, but overall I think we have a good appreciation of each other. I was doing something I often do (and apply to myself as much as everyone else) and in this case it's observing communication and bringing up a matter for consideration because I think it offers useful food for thought. While I often use specific posts, I also often mean things in a general way and am using the post in illustration, and not to "come down" on the poster (though I do that too of course at times). I simply trust you know by now a bit about how I operate and that such is neither personal nor even "insulting" in my circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hey, we disagree on various matters and have a lot of common ground too, but overall I think we have a good appreciation of each other. I was doing something I often do (and apply to myself as much as everyone else) and in this case it's observing communication and bringing up a matter for consideration because I think it offers useful food for thought. I simply trust you know by now a bit about how I operate and that such is neither personal nor even "insulting" in my circle. No offense taken at all. I know you like to stoke the fires as an impartial observer sometimes. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Sometimes I am amazed at the lack of reading comprehension skills. Welcome to my world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hey at least I am honest about my personal opinion of liberals and guns. I am not stating it as a fact. Just my personal opinion. So, you're expecting brownie points for admitting that you don't care if your opinion is true or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 So, i am a licensed gun dealer who's selling guns at my local gun show.Guy says he'd like to buy 12 glocks cash, but he doesn't want to deal with the paperwork. Gun dealer "sells" himself the guns, knowing he can satisfy the background check, goes outside and sells the guy his bag of guns with no check because he's a private owner. speaking of obtuse;) what prevents it from happening everyday at the dealers store? this law would not stop that and it is already illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 So, you're expecting brownie points for admitting that you don't care if your opinion is true or not? How many opinions are true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 So, i am a licensed gun dealer who's selling guns at my local gun show.Guy says he'd like to buy 12 glocks cash, but he doesn't want to deal with the paperwork. Gun dealer "sells" himself the guns, knowing he can satisfy the background check, goes outside and sells the guy his bag of guns with no check because he's a private owner. Actually, the one I've heard about is in some ways simpler than this. I'm standing at a gun show, behind a table that has 75 guns for sale on it. I'm going to sell 25 of them, this weekend. (And I go to one of these shows every few weeks. Now, the law says that, if I sell more than 2 guns a year, I have to comply with a bunch of rules. But, well? These 75 guns on my table? Well, you see, I say they aren't mine. I've got 75 guns on the table (and another 50 behind the counter and places.) And I've got a box with 150 3x5 cards. You want this gun? Well, I'm not selling it to you, Bill Smith is. And Mike Jones is selling this one, here. And Steve Williams is selling this other one. I'm going to sell 20 guns this weekend. And I'm not going to comply with any record keeping at all. Because I claim I'm 150 people. So I'm going to claim that those 20 guns I sold this weekend are 20 "private sales". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 isn't that illegal Larry? is adding another law or enforcing the ones we have better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 speaking of obtuse;)what prevents it from happening everyday at the dealers store? this law would not stop that and it is already illegal Nothing prevents it, and that's the friggin' problem. You mean to telkl me in the VERY simplified scenario i gave, you can't think of ANY way to stop it? If private sales required the same check, then the disreputable dealer is not able to easily get around it and make the sale. Take it from a former criminal. Loopholes and areas that can be exploited will be exploited and will be exploited often. and the private sales loophole is one hole to close to make it that much harder. It's not rocket science. guns are tangible. They are highly identifiable. We have a problem with crooks getting guns. factory makes gun. When it leaves factory door, factory knows where it goes. There are records. These records and licensed dealers are supposed to solve this problem, and it would, if you didn't open up the back door and leave it wide with this 'private seller's" loophole. crack dealer appears on your street. Do you do anything about it? or do you just decide that no matter what crack dealers will get crack, so you leave him there and hope he won't sell it to your kid? Are you proactive in solving the problem, or do you meekly throw up your hands and say "them crim'nuls is too smart fer me. I cain't do nuthin' bout it no way!" I know which one it sounds like. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 It's so easy and so much better in every positive way to phrase things on important issues as intelligently as possible (IMV) when not clowning around. "So many liberals favor various degrees of increased gun control." "I think many liberals would like a complete ban on some kinds of guns." "Liberals as a group overall are consistently and notably more in favor of gun regulation than are conservatives." None of those comments are "stupid" or feature any continued stroking of a reflexive polarized political-bias over-view, and all speak to the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I looked into buying a hand gun because it looks like I am going to move to Oakland again in a month. And I'll be living in West Oakland, aka the ghetto by any American definition. Apparantly it is damn near impossible to legally carry a hand gun in most of CA. Open carry is illegal. Concealed carry requires a permit. It is up to the discretion of the county sheriff to decide who gets permits. In Alameda County (the county w/ Berkeley and Oakland) there are like 200 non-law enforcement people who have a conceal carry permit. I bet those folks are important people or former law enforcement people. I'm surprised this level of regulation isn't unconstitutional. How can some jurisdictions defacto ban handgun usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Actually, the one I've heard about is in some ways simpler than this. I'm standing at a gun show, behind a table that has 75 guns for sale on it. I'm going to sell 25 of them, this weekend. (And I go to one of these shows every few weeks. Now, the law says that, if I sell more than 2 guns a year, I have to comply with a bunch of rules. But, well? These 75 guns on my table? Well, you see, I say they aren't mine. I've got 75 guns on the table (and another 50 behind the counter and places.) And I've got a box with 150 3x5 cards. You want this gun? Well, I'm not selling it to you, Bill Smith is. And Mike Jones is selling this one, here. And Steve Williams is selling this other one. I'm going to sell 20 guns this weekend. And I'm not going to comply with any record keeping at all. Because I claim I'm 150 people. So I'm going to claim that those 20 guns I sold this weekend are 20 "private sales". gol'dang them criminal masterminds! How come no one can figger out how to stop such a thang? ~ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 I looked into buying a hand gun because it looks like I am going to move to Oakland again in a month. And I'll be living in West Oakland, aka the ghetto by any American definition. Apparantly it is damn near impossible to legally carry a hand gun in most of CA. Open carry is illegal. Concealed carry requires a permit. It is up to the discretion of the county sheriff to decide who gets permits. In Alameda County (the county w/ Berkeley and Oakland) there are like 200 non-law enforcement people who have a conceal carry permit. I bet those folks are important people or former law enforcement people. I'm surprised this level of regulation isn't unconstitutional. How can some jurisdictions defacto ban handgun usage? Trust me I feel your pain. Cali is a may issue State which is utter crap. I know here in San Diego the only time you are getting a permit is if you are a Major campaign donor to the Sheriff or a celebrity. Some store owners who transport large amounts of money get them as well. The only work around I have found is if you become a licensed PI, then you can possibly get a license to carry, but you have to carry insurance as well. I am honestly surprised that the NRA hasn't jumped all over this or someone has not sued. ---------- Post added April-18th-2013 at 12:47 PM ---------- gol'dang them criminal masterminds!How come no one can figger out how to stop such a thang? ~ugh Cause technically they are selling them on consignment. Just make consignment sales illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 gol'dang them criminal masterminds!How come no one can figger out how to stop such a thang? ~ugh how does this bill stop a already illegal transaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 gol'dang them criminal masterminds!How come no one can figger out how to stop such a thang? ~ugh Seems like some undercover ATF agents could probably deter this sort of thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 isn't that illegal Larry?is adding another law or enforcing the ones we have better? Background checks and registration are the only realistic way to "enforce the ones we have." ---------- Post added April-18th-2013 at 11:00 AM ---------- Sometimes I am amazed at the lack of reading comprehension skills. Just because an ignorant and untrue statement is couched as an opinion doesn't suddenly make it less ignorant and more true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Trust me I feel your pain. Cali is a may issue State which is utter crap. I know here in San Diego the only time you are getting a permit is if you are a Major campaign donor to the Sheriff or a celebrity. Some store owners who transport large amounts of money get them as well. The only work around I have found is if you become a licensed PI, then you can possibly get a license to carry, but you have to carry insurance as well. I am honestly surprised that the NRA hasn't jumped all over this or someone has not sued.---------- Post added April-18th-2013 at 12:47 PM ---------- Cause technically they are selling them on consignment. Just make consignment sales illegal. Yeah, apparently it's worse than I thought, even long guns require a permit to be carried. This is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Yeah, apparently it's worse than I thought, even long guns require a permit to be carried. This is garbage. Wait, who carries a long gun around with them everywhere they go? Are you going to climb on BART with a rifle stuck down your trousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.