2013 FA Thread (Updates on OP) New: Merling, Brace, Pashos, Trueblood, EJBig, Tapp, White, Williams, MATTHEWS; Re-up: Rex, Hall, Davis, Paulsen, DY, RJax, Lich, Sundberg, Baker, Sav, Golston, Kehl, Polumbus; Paycuts: Carriker, Moss, BMeri, J. Wilson

[2cents]

I'd restructure his contract... as he said he would be open to doing.

I don't think there will be too much trouble resturcturing Hall and Moss, they both know we are close and that they aren't going to have all that many people knocking on their door. I think they both stay.

[DC9]

I don't think there will be too much trouble resturcturing Hall and Moss, they both know we are close and that they aren't going to have all that many people knocking on their door. I think they both stay.

It'll be interesting. With Moss, I'd be more interested in re-working his contract in terms of how much he will get... basically cutting his pay in half.

With DeAngelo I'd be more open to restructuring and maybe adding a year to spread whatever money he has now... but also not adding any money (maybe 200k to make it look legit) so there is less on the back end if his performance drops over the next two seasons.

This scenario sucks, because Moss has obviously been the better team guy, but mid-30's for a Wide Receiver is rare air. And as I said, if anyone from the last 10 years deserves to be on this ride it's him in my opinion.

[DogofWar1]

It'll be interesting. With Moss, I'd be more interested in re-working his contract in terms of how much he will get... basically cutting his pay in half.

With DeAngelo I'd be more open to restructuring and maybe adding a year to spread whatever money he has now... but also not adding any money (maybe 200k to make it look legit) so there is less on the back end if his performance drops over the next two seasons.

This scenario sucks, because Moss has obviously been the better team guy, but mid-30's for a Wide Receiver is rare air. And as I said, if anyone from the last 10 years deserves to be on this ride it's him in my opinion.

I agree with this on all points.

The one thing that gets hairy with Hall is that he's due 16.5M over the next two years in base salary, and that's before bonuses, which I think are 3M per year, so he's actually due something like 22.5M over the next two years before becoming a FA. Even if we added a third year to that his cap hit would only go down a couple million.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of how contracts work can help, but is there anything we can do with his signing bonuses? 16.5M over 3 years (5.5M/year) is pretty manageable, but 22.5M over 3 years (7.5M/year) is a bit much for what he brings, in my opinion.

I would also love to see Moss here, but not at 5M a year, I think half that or around 2M would be about right.

[DC9]

that's before bonuses, which I think are 3M per year

The only bonus I am aware of is his workout bonus which kicks in on either 1 March or 1 April and I believe it's $150k or $200k. The contract has to be restructured before that bonus kicks in or we are stuck with either cutting him or paying him his base salary for the year. He may have more bonuses, but I am not sure they add up to $3 mil, could be wrong though.

The rest looks perfect and I'd agree with all.

[SemperFi Skins]

I just want to add a point of clarification:

Chris Rainey can not be cut yet. For teams not in the playoffs and whose season as ended, they can not cut anyone until after the SuperBowl has occured.

Therefore, he will not be on the waiver wire anyway, until about a month or so...

This is just implying that he 'will' be released.

[amm0409]

Lacey is projected in the second. I'm assuming he will go early second, but its interesting to think about two big backs with Morris and Lacey.

I don't think we will pick RB in the 2nd but I'm just thinking

[DC9]

Lacey is projected in the second. I'm assuming he will go early second, but its interesting to think about two big backs with Morris and Lacey.

I don't think we will pick RB in the 2nd but I'm just thinking

I know everyone is high on Trent Richardson, but I saw nothing special from him when we played the Browns. Same with Mark Ingram... Alabama running backs are becoming the USC quarterbacks of the 2010s. It's easy to look impressive when you have a suffocating defense on one side of the ball and a couple of All-American linemen.

I think we are more than set at Running Back unless you want to go with a scat/speed back.

[doghouse4x4]

Lacey is projected in the second. I'm assuming he will go early second, but its interesting to think about two big backs with Morris and Lacey.

I don't think we will pick RB in the 2nd but I'm just thinking

I know everyone is high on Trent Richardson, but I saw nothing special from him when we played the Browns. Same with Mark Ingram... Alabama running backs are becoming the USC quarterbacks of the 2010s. It's easy to look impressive when you have a suffocating defense on one side of the ball and a couple of All-American linemen.

I think we are more than set at Running Back unless you want to go with a scat/speed back.

Firstly, I agree we are set at RB other than a scat back.

But as someone who has watched every snap of Alabama for the past eon, there are some things to note. First, Trent is going to be absurdly good in the NFL. He was hurt the whole year, and the Browns suck. What he will do going forward will rival AP. Ingram or Lacy on either side are not nearly as good. Lacy looks the part, but is not as strong or fast. He is also not very fluid or shifty. The spin move is his best thing. That said, he will develop to a decent NFL RB I think, but more like a 3rd round pick. Ingram is going to end up ok too. The second half of this year accentuated his strengths and his production went way up because of it. I don't know that he will ever be fully utilized properly in the Saints scheme, but you never know. He needs to be run like Emmitt Smith, they are basically clones.

The Bama back to watch in the next couple years is TJ Yeldon, who has some of the quickest feet I have ever seen, and is deceptively strong.

[DogofWar1]

The only bonus I am aware of is his workout bonus which kicks in on either 1 March or 1 April and I believe it's $150k or $200k. The contract has to be restructured before that bonus kicks in or we are stuck with either cutting him or paying him his base salary for the year. He may have more bonuses, but I am not sure they add up to $3 mil, could be wrong though.

The rest looks perfect and I'd agree with all.

Rotoworld has base salary, but then I looked at Sportrac and they have this 3.5M "miscellaneous" bonus thing on top of base salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap-hit/

That's the one thing that concerns me more than anything if that's actually real. That takes his cap hit from 7.5M to 11M, which is basically from high to absurd. I don't know what that bonus is, they list it as an option bonus.

[DC9]

Rotoworld has base salary, but then I looked at Sportrac and they have this 3.5M "miscellaneous" bonus thing on top of base salary.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap-hit/

That's the one thing that concerns me more than anything if that's actually real. That takes his cap hit from 7.5M to 11M, which is basically from high to absurd. I don't know what that bonus is, they list it as an option bonus.

Nice pull. Yep, that's definitely something that may need to be taken care of. I don't think anyone picks him up from a waiver wire transaction... maybe he'll be open to talking after that. In all seriousness, he's our best CB, but he is not worth that money at all. Hopefully he sees things that way. If he balls out next year, he'll likely be duely rewarded for it in 2014 when we get money back.

[DogofWar1]

And now the FAWRs:

I'm on the fence concerning adding a WR, I really am.

On the one hand another very solid WR could really put our offense over the top, and provide insurance. When Garcon went out, our WRs struggled mightily, and once Davis went out too we floundered terribly. Adding a #1 like Bowe or Wallace would be costly, but pretty much make our WR one of the best in the league.

Alternatively, if we added a slot guy, that could be good too, Moss is aging, and I don't know what Robinson ultimately will be.

The flip-side is that Garcon and Morgan are good and fairly young, Davis is coming back, and that even with Moss aging Hankerson and Robinson might end up solid. Throwing a bunch of money at a guy might slow help in other areas, and might not drastically improve the corp if Hank and Robinson keep developing. If we do go after someone, I think a slot guy is a tad more important than an outside guy.

Looking at the list, Bowe and Wallace are sure things. I'm a little wary of Jennings and Welker.

Beyond those 4, Amendola, Hartline, Collie, Gibson, and Knox are guys I feel like might really be worth looking into. Knox, Collie, and Amendola had some injury problems, but both are potentially dangerous young players when healthy. Hartline and Gibson strike me as solid but unspectacular guys worth a look at the right price.

I'm definitely pretty high on Knox, before his injury this year he looked like a pretty dangerous young receiver, and if he gets healthy could definitely do some damage with a team. If he comes loose I definitely want to take a good hard look at him. Also, he did kickoffs in CHI, so that would kill two birds with one stone.

By the way, the "*" next to Welker's Pct is due to ESPN not keeping track of targets until 2005, his first year was 2004. His Pct is probably a little lower than .75.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I definitely wouldn't toss a penny at a WR unless it was to resign Morgan. Am I right in thinking that he signed a 1 year deal as a FA and is therefore a FA again? If this is the case then he is the only WR I would consider paying this offseason. Sure, adding some of the big names would make us the best receiving core in the NFL. What would that lead to? We have real holes on defense that have to be shored up. And objectively speaking, even WITH negotiating Moss and Hall down, do we really have the money for 2-3 guys?

I think we'll be damn lucky to sign one big guy and one middle of the pack guy. And I think that has to be in the defensive backfield, perhaps both of them actually. I like our receiving group and I even like our OLine (gasp!). They're not great but they definitely are better then over paying for someone who will come in, take a year to really gel and fit in, play at a high level for 2 more, and then start to tail off, all while making 8+ mil a year.

[lifeisgr8]

I personally think that Tim Tebow would be a great asset for our team. His college offense was predicated around the pistol offense. If we could have had him as a backup in the Seattle game the defense would have had to play honest.I think Kurt Cousinsis a good quarterback but when your offense especially the offensive line is used to a mobile qb in the middle of a game it's hard adjust. don't get me wrong I'm not at all saying Tim Tebow is a better passer or a better runner then either of the quarterbacks we have. All I'm saying is he's a better relief to step in and help finish a game.

[maskedsuperstar]

Yes. He controls the LOS and does a good job of getting to the second level. The old thought process of "smaller, quicker" linemen being necessary to fit the ZBS is false. Quite simply, you need a guy who can control a man on the LOS, usually using angles, and a guy who can seamlessly get to the second level. Andre Smith can do both. He fits.

If you want to ask if his price tag justifies the fit he has, that's a whole new ballgame

cool

[2cents]

I personally think that Tim Tebow would be a great asset for our team. His college offense was predicated around the pistol offense. If we could have had him as a backup in the Seattle game the defense would have had to play honest.I think Kurt Cousinsis a good quarterback but when your offense especially the offensive line is used to a mobile qb in the middle of a game it's hard adjust. don't get me wrong I'm not at all saying Tim Tebow is a better passer or a better runner then either of the quarterbacks we have. All I'm saying is he's a better relief to step in and help finish a game.

Thanks, but no. Just....no.

[maskedsuperstar]

I personally think that Tim Tebow would be a great asset for our team. His college offense was predicated around the pistol offense. If we could have had him as a backup in the Seattle game the defense would have had to play honest.I think Kurt Cousinsis a good quarterback but when your offense especially the offensive line is used to a mobile qb in the middle of a game it's hard adjust. don't get me wrong I'm not at all saying Tim Tebow is a better passer or a better runner then either of the quarterbacks we have. All I'm saying is he's a better relief to step in and help finish a game.

You can't be serious!

[lifeisgr8]

Thanks, but no. Just....no.

Why?

I've had two ppl say no and act like im crazy but no reasoning behind it...

it's not as character because all in all is a good person and a team player. It's not his game play because he actually plays the game decently for what you're asking him to do. So why not?

[MrJL]

Why?

I've had two ppl say no and act like im crazy but no reasoning behind it...

it's not as character because all in all is a good person and a team player. It's not his game play because he actually plays the game decently for what you're asking him to do. So why not?

he can't throw the ball, and he's only a team player if the team is doing what he wants.

[DogofWar1]

Why?

I've had two ppl say no and act like im crazy but no reasoning behind it...

it's not as character because all in all is a good person and a team player. It's not his game play because he actually plays the game decently for what you're asking him to do. So why not?

He doesn't play the game decently though is the problem. He's nowhere near the passer RGIII is, nor is he remotely close to being the athlete RGIII is. Our offense is dangerous because you have to account for:

A) Morris wrecking balling his way 10 yards down the field

RGIII taking off with 4.3 speed

C) RGIII being able to throw it anywhere on the field on a wire

With Tebow there, defenses need only worry about A. Tebow has 4.7 speed, which is good for a QB, but slow for a QB in the type of offense we're trying to run. Also his throws are very poor, so C goes out the window.

We'd be much better off just conceding B if RGIII goes down and running a traditional offense behind Cousins.

If we really want a QB who can run the offense RGIII does, we should just draft Nick Florence late. He's a better passer than Tebow IMO, and runs something like a 4.6, so faster than Tebow.

[2cents]

Why?

I've had two ppl say no and act like im crazy but no reasoning behind it...

it's not as character because all in all is a good person and a team player. It's not his game play because he actually plays the game decently for what you're asking him to do. So why not?

He is a horrible passer. Just horrible. I watched his 2-20something game against the Chiefs last year and he had absolutely NO idea where the ball was going when it left his hand. None whatsoever. Given how well the team played with Cousins in there, there is no reason to make a move such as this.

[lifeisgr8]

He doesn't play the game decently though is the problem. He's nowhere near the passer RGIII is, nor is he remotely close to being the athlete RGIII is. Our offense is dangerous because you have to account for:

A) Morris wrecking balling his way 10 yards down the field

RGIII taking off with 4.3 speed

C) RGIII being able to throw it anywhere on the field on a wire

With Tebow there, defenses need only worry about A. Tebow has 4.7 speed, which is good for a QB, but slow for a QB in the type of offense we're trying to run. Also his throws are very poor, so C goes out the window.

We'd be much better off just conceding B if RGIII goes down and running a traditional offense behind Cousins.

If we really want a QB who can run the offense RGIII does, we should just draft Nick Florence late. He's a better passer than Tebow IMO, and runs something like a 4.6, so faster than Tebow.

Like I said im not saying to bring him in as the #2 bring him in just to be a closer if (god forbid) RG3 goes down in the middle of a game. Changing your offense in the middle of a game is hard on a team. Timing blocking and everything you've practiced all week goes out tue door. But if he can finish a game for us and give the team a week to practice with a completely different qb, he's done what we needed him to do.

---------- Post added January-11th-2013 at 07:11 PM ----------

He is a horrible passer. Just horrible. I watched his 2-20something game against the Chiefs last year and he had absolutely NO idea where the ball was going when it left his hand. None whatsoever. Given how well the team played with Cousins in there, there is no reason to make a move such as this.

You are 100% right. So don't ask him to throw unless its absolutely needed. managing a game and winning a game he CAN do though.

[2cents]

Like I said im not saying to bring him in as the #2 bring him in just to be a closer if (god forbid) RG3 goes down in the middle of a game. Changing your offense in the middle of a game is hard on a team. Timing blocking and everything you've practiced all week goes out tue door. But if he can finish a game for us and give the team a week to practice with a completely different qb, he's done what we needed him to do.

---------- Post added January-11th-2013 at 07:11 PM ----------

Since you already have Cousins and he works, its just an unecessary move.

You are 100% right. So don't ask him to throw unless its absolutely needed. managing a game and winning a game he CAN do though.

[clskinsfan]

I personally think that Tim Tebow would be a great asset for our team. His college offense was predicated around the pistol offense. If we could have had him as a backup in the Seattle game the defense would have had to play honest.I think Kurt Cousinsis a good quarterback but when your offense especially the offensive line is used to a mobile qb in the middle of a game it's hard adjust. don't get me wrong I'm not at all saying Tim Tebow is a better passer or a better runner then either of the quarterbacks we have. All I'm saying is he's a better relief to step in and help finish a game.

If we are gonna let Cousins walk and then add a veteran backup. I would rather have Vick. At least the offense could still be run with him in the pistol.

Edit: By letting Cousins walk I mean in a trade for draft picks.

[lifeisgr8]

If we are gonna let Cousins walk and then add a veteran backup. I would rather have Vick. At least the offense could still be run with him in the pistol.

Edit: By letting Cousins walk I mean in a trade for draft picks.

Then you deal with the same injury scenario. TT rarely gets hurt... and above all he's not a cancer.

---------- Post added January-11th-2013 at 07:19 PM ----------

and I'm not saying like cousins go at all having to starters on your team is great that you could use Tim Tebow as a closer or a relief pitcher per se but at the quarterback position

[DogofWar1]

Like I said im not saying to bring him in as the #2 bring him in just to be a closer if (god forbid) RG3 goes down in the middle of a game. Changing your offense in the middle of a game is hard on a team. Timing blocking and everything you've practiced all week goes out tue door. But if he can finish a game for us and give the team a week to practice with a completely different qb, he's done what we needed him to do.

---------- Post added January-11th-2013 at 07:11 PM ----------

You are 100% right. So don't ask him to throw unless its absolutely needed. managing a game and winning a game he CAN do though.

Terribly impractical, think about this from the prospective of the defense. Opposing QB just went down, and they're replacing him with a guy who cannot throw for crap. Everything is going to be on the ground. The defense stuffs 8 in the box, and laughs as we can't move the ball. Tebow tries to pass, and unless we get Tebow magic, we're more likely to watch INTs than TDs.

Also, the thing to remember is that the zone read and pistol are just a part of the playbook, not the whole thing. We can and do run traditional plays with RGIII. So if RGIII went down we'd simply run the traditional plays, not the ones calling for the QB to run. We wouldn't be changing the offense wholesale so much as shrinking it a bit.

Not to mention, our offense will likely become more traditional as we go forward, this year's offense was a "bridge" offense, not the norm.

So with Cousins, we basically just cut out some of the plays where the QB has to be highly mobile, but the offense stays largely the same, not to mention we can still go through the air. With Tebow, sure, we can keep the mobile QB plays, but we have to toss all the pass plays.

It's just a bad idea overall. Cousins and the rest of the offense do fine. We actually did ok in Atlanta, the problem was the 2 INTs Cousins threw, which was to be expected for his first time playing a game in the NFL. Play that same game again, Cousins and the offense probably does fine, and we might even win it.