Playing Surface (Or: Why we need to evolve as an organization)

[demarc007]

We're basically willfully driving our Brand New Ferrari (RG3) on a track full pot holes. The grass might not have been the sole factor in the injury but why even take the chance when you don't have to. It's common sense.

[No_Pressure]

Great research. Here's a question: does the impact our field has on our offense balance out with the impact our field has on opponent offenses? I like the idea that we at least know our field, and can get used to it, and gain advantage, comparative to other teams, with that. But, as you said, we're building a different kind of team now, and maybe it's better to accentuate our strengths than to minimize our opponents?

Yeah, it's a door which can swing both ways. There are ways to build a dome defense however. This is a very general statement I'm about to make, but speed is pretty much everything to a team on synthetic turf, and we could build a decent defense around guys who aren't your typical Redskins defenders. Believe it or not there are people who play much better on perfect surfaces than ones which are basically a pool of sand or slop. I'm not saying Josh Wilson is one of those guys, but I can name 3 plays last season where he fell down and gave up a big gain or a TD because he was trying to plant on our home field and slipped.

In spite of Alfred Morris' success, we're not ground pounders anymore. We can have just as good of a run game on a synthetic field, but I believe it will help our skill players on offense.

[pjfootballer]

RG3's injury had nothing to do with playing on grass.

When you factor in Clemmons knee and Seattle's kicker spraining an ankle, that's 2 players out of 60 getting hurt in one game.

That would happen in any game on any surface.

As usual, the media blows it out of proportion and a large majority on ES follow suit.

I agree. There were no issues just one week before against Dallass. Nobody got hurt, so the issue wasn't brought up.

Your Front Office might want to consider using Field Turf like we have here in Cincinnati at Paul Brown Stadium. Washington DC and Cincinnati have basically the same weather throughout the season and Field Turf is terrific. It feels just like grass and since the designs are sewn into the field, no painting and repainting is ever necessary. In Cincinnati we even have a feature most other stadiums don't: A heated field. Pipes under the turf keep the surface warm so we never have to worry about snow sticking to it. Most of all, it looks great on TV!

I'm still not a fan of fieldturf even though it is eons better than astroturf. My problem with fieldturf is, it's plastic. I've seen players slip when trying to make a cut on the rubber pellets. It bothers me that they haven't come up with a different cleat to go on this surface like they did for astroturf. I see too many players slipping, even in dry weather.

FieldTurf is fine by me, especially since it's not like FedEx is some storied stadium, like RFK, Fenway Park, etc. It's FedEx, and I think we're all aware of its limitations. Let's see a rehabbed Griffin and this exciting young team out there on a new playing field. Grass is fine, too, as long as the grass actually exists. No more ice rinks.

I'd prefer the DESSO Grassmaster system they have in Denver, Philly and Green Bay. Look at the field in Denver tomorrow. It's a combination of the fieldturf and grass.

[deejaydana]

Isn't an artificial surface MUCH tougher on knees/joints than real grass? I know I'm an old schooler but I much prefer watching football played on actual grass (and I realize that the condition of the turf @ Fed Ex is substandard).

[Lakerskinz]

I would be shocked if nothing is done to the playing surface.

Nothing Syder does surprises me anymore. Didn't he try and sell expired sodas,peanuts,etc, in the stadium that he bought from a out of business airlines?!

[2cents]

We're basically willfully driving our Brand New Ferrari (RG3) on a track full pot holes. The grass might not have been the sole factor in the injury but why even take the chance when you don't have to. It's common sense.

Because there is just as good of a chance of a guy getting hurt on artificial turf without getting touched. That's why you do research to see what might work better instead of blindly making change for change's sake.

[robinsmw]

I think that installing a synthetic surface at FedEx field, sacrilegious as it may sound, will benefit our offense greatly during 2013, and may even help prevent an injury or two.

I'd like to see the research that says that Field Turf prevents injuries. Most data is inconsistent, with the most recent data suggesting that field turf causes MORE injuries.

An Analysis of Specific Lower Extremity Injury Rates on Grass and FieldTurf Playing Surfaces in National Football League Games

2000-2009 Seasons

http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/40/10/2200

Conclusion: Injury rates for ACL sprains and eversion ankle sprains for NFL games played on FieldTurf were higher than rates for those injuries in games played on grass, and the differences were statistically significant.

[Chanhillbilly]

That stats complied on turf and grass and in the dome are interesting, but you need to take a few things into account. Pierre G. injury dropped down the output of the offense a bit. Games early in the season can be a bit of a track meet until teams start getting film on the offense. Think about how the wildcat has come and gone from the NFL (except for 1 play by the bengals). Robert's knee injury vs the Raven really took something of the ball so there was drop in passing after that, and a shift to Morris in the running game.

I still like the idea of a grass field or hybrid field. Just not a solid field turf field. As I have posted before. It is still tough on the knees, ankles and hips. Not as bad as astro turf. But not as good as grass..

[No_Pressure]

I'd like to see the research that says that Field Turf prevents injuries. Most data is inconsistent, with the most recent data suggesting that field turf causes MORE injuries.

An Analysis of Specific Lower Extremity Injury Rates on Grass and FieldTurf Playing Surfaces in National Football League Games

2000-2009 Seasons

http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/40/10/2200

Conclusion: Injury rates for ACL sprains and eversion ankle sprains for NFL games played on FieldTurf were higher than rates for those injuries in games played on grass, and the differences were statistically significant.

I'm sorry, I didn't have an article to back the assumption that a field which is a collection of wet, sloppy, green painted mush was more likely to cause an injury due to improperly planting a foot than turf. Also, who said anything had to be FieldTurf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

http://www.matrix-turf.com/softtop-roll-up-turf/

http://www.ubusports.com/members/profiles/ontario.htm

http://www.shawsportsturf.com/

We only played on FieldTurf once this season, at MetLife. The other times were on different surfaces from different companies. There isn't even a major problem with surfaces which are grass but have systems underneath to better preserve them, or stadiums which aren't whored out like crazy during the season, ruining the playing surface even further. Our surface is crap. People say nobody was talking about how ****ty our field is until this injury and that just isn't true. Hell, in our home opener, Josh Wilson slipped and fell in a cloud of sand and gave up a TD. I remember in 2005 people questioning why the hell our field was always so damn sandy, especially late in the year. Our surface has looked like crap late in the season for quite a long time.

That stats complied on turf and grass and in the dome are interesting, but you need to take a few things into account. Pierre G. injury dropped down the output of the offense a bit. Games early in the season can be a bit of a track meet until teams start getting film on the offense. Think about how the wildcat has come and gone from the NFL (except for 1 play by the bengals). Robert's knee injury vs the Raven really took something of the ball so there was drop in passing after that, and a shift to Morris in the running game.

I still like the idea of a grass field or hybrid field. Just not a solid field turf field. As I have posted before. It is still tough on the knees, ankles and hips. Not as bad as astro turf. But not as good as grass..

Actually, we put up good numbers later in the season without Garcon while in New York, and of course with his return in Dallas. The Ravens game was RG3's best passing effort yardage wise in weeks, but unlike what you were saying, his injury was followed up by one of the top yardage and scoring performances of the season on a grass surface in Cleveland, actually raising the averages. The next week in Philly with RG3's return was a high passing yardage day that happened to favor synthetic surfaces. Our home closer was certainly a run-heavy performance, one which helped inflate our running game statistics on grass surfaces.

[Dan T.]

[HighOnHendrix]

The OP is right that this is not a new discussion about the playing surface being garbage. It's been an issue for at least half a dozen years. I really think the team needs to take a hard look at the options and upgrade to the appropriate surface. As has been pointed out, it's no longer a simple choice between grass and turf. And the days of a rug stretched over concrete like the Vet are long over. I like grass, too, but enough's enough.

[deejaydana]

So does this come down first and foremost to Snyder simply being too cheap to shell out the money for a 'modern' playing surface? BTW: AP's torn ACL had nothing to do w/the playing surface.

[Laxpunk2006]

RG3's injury had nothing to do with playing on grass.

When you factor in Clemmons knee and Seattle's kicker spraining an ankle, that's 2 players out of 60 getting hurt in one game.

That would happen in any game on any surface.

As usual, the media blows it out of proportion and a large majority on ES follow suit.

This is not directed at you DM72, but I read alot of posters that think playing on grass is outdated and we need field turf.

Fire the groundskeeper and get someone in here that's competent to fix the field. Problem solved.

To those people wanting field turf I say: Horse Hockey!

No one cared about our grass field in the 80's when we were in contention every year and putting Lombardi's in the trophy case.

And no one gave a damn about our field for 20 years until last Sunday.

Alot of bloviating going on over a back burner issue.

The discussion isn't regarding installing a safer playing surface. It's discussing whether a faster playing surface would give our team a strategic advantage on the field. No one cared about grass in the 80's because artificial surfaces weren't nearly as prevalent or advanced as they are now. Times change.

We are a fast team and could (possibly) take advantage of a faster surface. It's the offseason, why dismiss a good conversation?

In my limited knowledge of playing surfaces I'm most interested in the hybrid system employed in Green Bay. It seems to carry most of the advantages of natural and artificial surfaces while limiting the negatives. The price is minor relative to the costs of running a professional football team and could benefit the performance of our team. I think that ESPN's "FedEx Field is unsafe" campaign is a bit ridiculous as they ignore the fact that Adrian Peterson and RGIII's initial injuries were results of contact, but if it helps bring light to a possible competitive advantage then it's benefiting our team.

[robinsmw]

I'm sorry, I didn't have an article to back the assumption that a field which is a collection of wet, sloppy, green painted mush was more likely to cause an injury due to improperly planting a foot than turf. Also, who said anything had to be FieldTurf?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

http://www.matrix-turf.com/softtop-roll-up-turf/

http://www.ubusports.com/members/profiles/ontario.htm

http://www.shawsportsturf.com/

We only played on FieldTurf once this season, at MetLife. The other times were on different surfaces from different companies. There isn't even a major problem with surfaces which are grass but have systems underneath to better preserve them, or stadiums which aren't whored out like crazy during the season, ruining the playing surface even further. Our surface is crap. People say nobody was talking about how ****ty our field is until this injury and that just isn't true. Hell, in our home opener, Josh Wilson slipped and fell in a cloud of sand and gave up a TD. I remember in 2005 people questioning why the hell our field was always so damn sandy, especially late in the year. Our surface has looked like crap late in the season for quite a long time.

.

I'm not a Dr. nor have I heard any Dr. say that the cause of the injuries on Sunday were related to the field. Maybe they did, but the study shows that over a long period of time (10 years), Field Turf is going to cause more injuries. Maybe FedEx is worse in Dec/Jan but over the length of the season or seasons, I'm going to say that there are less injuries on real grass than on an artificial surface.

I know there are other systems. Of the 4 you mentioned, 3 are very similar to Field Turf. I consider Field Turf to be the Xerox of artificial systems at this point, meaning a lot of people copy a similar system but brand it differently. The 1st you mentioned, GrassMaster, was so bad in Pittsburgh that they ripped it out and put real grass in.

I agree, this isn't something that just happened and I do remember in '05 especially on X-mas eve when they played the Giants it was sandy. I attribute this to the type of grass they are using (Bermuda) in the climate they are in that late in the season they can't get grass to sprout and go with what they have. I posted a lot more in another thread (fix the darn field Snyder...or something like that). I think it's even more in the spotlight now b/c we are playing in front of national audiences later in the season and everyone has an HD TV. Remember the NFC Championship game vs the Lions in the '91 season? They played 1 week after playing the Falcons at home in a Monsoon (the seat cushion game). They literally painted the field that time too. So you're right, this isn't a new problem.

So, what's the solution? Someone has mentioned in the other thread using grass and heat lamps. I think that would be the best solution I've heard of. I just don't want a knee jerk reaction to put in Field Turf (or similar) and find out later that it actually increases injuries even if our field doesn't look the greatest in Dec/Jan.

[maskedsuperstar]

This is getting ridiculous! The NFL doesn't know what they want. All they do is point the finger.

[ejay183]

Isn't an artificial surface MUCH tougher on knees/joints than real grass? I know I'm an old schooler but I much prefer watching football played on actual grass (and I realize that the condition of the turf @ Fed Ex is substandard).

It is tougher on the knees. Griffin is fast on grass and Morris is great at cutting on grass. I want FedEx to stay grass cause its an advantage over teams visiting since most teams have turf or other fake stuff. Let other teams have to adjust to the Skins and fall down trying to stop the read option or catching Griffin cause they have trouble on grass. Also maintaining a grass field is more expensive.

[HogNose]

Who was the groundskeeper for RFK? I remember RFK looking like Augusta National during the 80's and it was always rated as one of the best fields in the NFL.

[Guest Spearfeather]

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/Surface%20Survey%202010.pdf

In the 2010 player survey, 69.4% of the players prefer grass to 14.3% who prefer an artificial surface with 9% indicating no preference.

RANKING: BEST GRASS PLAYING FIELD

1

ARIZONA CARDINALS:UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM

2

TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM

3

SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM

4

CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM

5

GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD

6

MIAMI DOLPHINS: SUN LIFE STADIUM

7

HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM

8

JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: EVERBANK FIELD

9

DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH

10

TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD

11

WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FEDEX FIELD

12

SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: CANDLESTICK PARK

13

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM

14

PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD

15

PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD

16

CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND BROWNS STADIUM

17

CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD

18

OAKLAND RAIDERS: OAKLAND COLISEUM

RANKING: WORST GRASS PLAYING FIELD

1

PITTSBURGH STEELERS: HEINZ FIELD

2

OAKLAND RAIDERS: OAKLAND COLISEUM

3

CHICAGO BEARS: SOLDIER FIELD

4

MIAMI DOLPHINS: SUN LIFE STADIUM

5

CLEVELAND BROWNS: CLEVELAND BROWN STADIUM

6

PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: LINCOLN FINANCIAL FIELD

7

GREEN BAY PACKERS: LAMBEAU FIELD

8

KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: ARROWHEAD STADIUM

9

TENNESSEE TITANS: LP FIELD

9

SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS: CANDLESTICK PARK

11

HOUSTON TEXANS: RELIANT STADIUM

12

CAROLINA PANTHERS: BANK OF AMERICA STADIUM

13

JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS: EVERBANK FIELD

14

TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS: RAYMOND JAMES STADIUM

15

SAN DIEGO CHARGERS: QUALCOMM STADIUM

16

WASHINGTON REDSKINS: FEDEX FIELD

17

DENVER BRONCOS: INVESCO FIELD AT MILE HIGH

18

ARIZONA CARDINALS: UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX STADIUM

RANKING: BEST ARTIFICIAL INFILLED PLAYING FIELD

1

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS: LUCAS OIL STADIUM

2

NEW YORK JETS/GIANTS: NEW MEADOWLANDS STADIUM

3

NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: LOUISIANA SUPERDOME

4

SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: QWEST FIELD

5

DALLAS COWBOYS: COWBOYS STADIUM

6

ATLANTA FALCONS: GEORGIA DOME

7

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILLETTE STADIUM

8

DETROIT LIONS: FORD FIELD

8

BALTIMORE RAVENS: M&T BANK STADIUM

9

ST.LOUIS RAMS: EDWARD JONES DOME

10

CINCINNATI BENGALS: PAUL BROWN STADIUM

11

MINNESOTA VIKINGS: METRODOME

12

BUFFALO BILLS: RALPH WILSON STADIUM

RANKING: WORST ARTIFICIAL INFILLED PLAYING FIELD

1

MINNESOTA VIKINGS: METRODOME

2

BUFFALO BILLS: RALPH WILSON STADIUM

3

ST. LOUIS RAMS: EDWARD JONES DOME

4

CINCINNATI BENGALS: PAUL BROWN STADIUM

5

NEW YORK JETS/GIANTS: NEW MEADOWLANDS STADIUM

6

ATLANTA FALCONS: GEORIGA DOME

7

DETROIT LIONS: FORD FIELD

8

NEW ORLEANS SAINTS: LOUISIANA SUPERDOME

9

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: GILLETTE STADIUM

10

INDIANAPOLIS COLTS: LUCAS OIL STADIUM

11

BALTIMORE RAVENS: M&T BANK STADIUM

12

SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: QWEST FIELD

13

DALLAS COWBOYS: COWBOYS STADIUM

[HighOnHendrix]

http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/Surface%20Survey%202010.pdf

Nice find!

FEEDBACK

Most reoccuring comments

Suggested changes for improvement

** Artificial Turf is much harder on the body with joint soreness and makes for tougher work. Southern grass fields are the best.

** Fields that are used for baseball and football leave hard infield that is difficult to play on. When you have one foot on grass

and one in hard dirt, injuries are bound to happen.

** If it's grass, enough of the highschools, colleges and concerts playing on it the day before. If it's a cold weather grass field, these fields

are battered to heck. The grounds crew can only do so much.

** We need a league wide standard/regulation policy for every field if the NFL really cares about the safety of all players.

** No baseball or half grass/half dirt infields.

** Artificial surfaces should be required in cold weather cities.

** We need better practice fields. Level and elminate holes, divots and uneven ground.

** Cold weather grass teams should have road trips late in the season to avoid playing on frozen surfaces. There should be no games

played on grass fields the same weekend as another event.

** Even dispersement of rubber material is needed, specifically comfortable give in twists and turns and level in height with no bumps.

** Every stadium should be evaluated properly every week prior to game day.

** If it's a multi-purpose stadium, mandate that it's artificial. If only one team used by the NFL, then it can be grass. Force Chicago and

Pittsburgh to go turf.

** More time and money need to be spent on the fields. College surfaces are better.

** Use softer bermuda grass with sand.

** No more non updated artificial turf that is hard and over filled with ground up rubber and cheap top layer grass that you can pull off like a

cheap tupae like Kansas City.

[No_Pressure]

I'm not a Dr. nor have I heard any Dr. say that the cause of the injuries on Sunday were related to the field. Maybe they did, but the study shows that over a long period of time (10 years), Field Turf is going to cause more injuries. Maybe FedEx is worse in Dec/Jan but over the length of the season or seasons, I'm going to say that there are less injuries on real grass than on an artificial surface.

I know there are other systems. Of the 4 you mentioned, 3 are very similar to Field Turf. I consider Field Turf to be the Xerox of artificial systems at this point, meaning a lot of people copy a similar system but brand it differently. The 1st you mentioned, GrassMaster, was so bad in Pittsburgh that they ripped it out and put real grass in.

I agree, this isn't something that just happened and I do remember in '05 especially on X-mas eve when they played the Giants it was sandy. I attribute this to the type of grass they are using (Bermuda) in the climate they are in that late in the season they can't get grass to sprout and go with what they have. I posted a lot more in another thread (fix the darn field Snyder...or something like that). I think it's even more in the spotlight now b/c we are playing in front of national audiences later in the season and everyone has an HD TV. Remember the NFC Championship game vs the Lions in the '91 season? They played 1 week after playing the Falcons at home in a Monsoon (the seat cushion game). They literally painted the field that time too. So you're right, this isn't a new problem.

So, what's the solution? Someone has mentioned in the other thread using grass and heat lamps. I think that would be the best solution I've heard of. I just don't want a knee jerk reaction to put in Field Turf (or similar) and find out later that it actually increases injuries even if our field doesn't look the greatest in Dec/Jan.

I want it for the competitive advantage, not necessarily any perceived injury prevention, though I think it obviously isn't good trying to plant on a ****ty and ****ed up field. Our field was screwed up bigtime in 1991. We also had an amazing offensive line and a different passing game. The WCO in my opinion thrives on turf. Fast players are unleashed when they have traction 100% of the time.

[HogNose]

Interesting....I thought Lambeau Field was 100% grass. I have never heard of this Desso GrassMaster. Maybe Fedex should look into this as an option.

[HighOnHendrix]

Interesting....I thought Lambeau Field was 100% grass. I have never heard of this Desso GrassMaster. Maybe Fedex should look into this as an option.

^Comments like these are interesting. When the average fan can't tell the difference or doesn't notice the difference it's time to consider a change.

[JMUSkins]

^Comments like these are interesting. When the average fan can't tell the difference or doesn't notice the difference it's time to consider a change.

I wonder what the players have to say about it... if they can't tell we definitely should change. Plus, the stats in the OP are pretty clear that it could benefit us... and DGM has REAL GRASS growing in it... seems like the best of both worlds.

Oh, and love me some Hendrix... I'm actually listening to my Hendrix station right now... Red House!

[HogNose]

^Comments like these are interesting. When the average fan can't tell the difference or doesn't notice the difference it's time to consider a change.

Yeah, after reading about it..I'm sold.

http://www.dessosports.com/hybrid-grass/benefits

[NoVaSkins21]

Even though I'm a proponent of natural grass, the sight of that field on that was more than disappointing on Sunday. Having to paint a field for a PLAYOFF game is just pathetic and pitiful. Everybody in the country is watching and saw that mess which was embarrassing. I think they're going to have to go with what the Ravens have because they're not playing indoors and it's just easy to maintain.