HTTR24-7:Coordinated Chaos- Mike Shanahans History With Defensive Coordinators

[Ghost of]

Robinson was the coordinator for a terrible Chiefs defense ('01-'03) before going back to the college game, and Rhodes was the coordinator of some middle-of-the-pack Seahawks defenses ('03-'07) and is now an assistant in Cleveland.

Robinson was bad at Syracuse as a head coach and he looked as bad as Haslett as D-Coordinator at Michigan under RichRod. In fact, we can thank him for RichRod's eventual release.

[redskin01fan]

I would love to see Lou Spanos return as DC if he thinks it is worth leaving UCLA

[SkinsFTW]

I can't remember who, but someone suggested that the way he's sticking with Jim Haslett is basically to prove that he's willing to give his defensive coordinator a decent shot to turn things around, in the hopes of enticing someone who ordinarily wouldn't want to come to the team.

Cynical, probably not true, but not entirely crazy.

If that was the case then he got that person when Morris chose to be a position coach over DC in Minnesota but he didn't fire Haslett then.

[Skinsinparadise]

Aside from the X's and O's which is the be all and end all, the kicker for me about Haslett is he is one mellow dude for a defensive coordinator and we seem to have a roster of likewise of mostly mellow dudes. The defense doesn't seem to play with much emotion. Gregg Williams aside from being a good coordinator had an edgy personality and an attitude -- there were games for example like the one where they had to beat Minnesota to stay in the playoff hunt where you can see the emotion. While granted emotion isn't necessary for heightened performance -- IMO it can help at times.

[SWFLSkins]

So if history tells us anything then Slowik will take over defensive playcalling after the bye and will be our new DC next year

I would laugh at that but you never know bro.. ES would implode

If history has taught Shanahan anything it won't happen, but yeah the thought of it is frightening.

Perhaps Shanny has learned to be more patient, hence he's stuck with Haslett whereas history shows Haslett likely would have been fired by now under old Shanahan.

Plausible elka, and hopefully the rope is gone and it is time to cut ties. I don't see an upside to Haslett.

[Long n Left]

Would Shanahan consider Rex Ryan if he were to be let go from the Jets?

This is my hope also. Rex has a history of getting the most out of his talent, and creating a pass rush and turnovers are a staple of his system.

[skins island connection]

Unless the defense shuts down Carolina, its more than likely over.

If we lose this game, especially if Cam has a very good/great game, or even if the Skins win a high scoring game, the axe will most likely drop on him.

There's no time like the present to begin correcting problems, and with the bye week coming, the opportunity is ripe for the picking.

[authentic]

I can't remember who, but someone suggested that the way he's sticking with Jim Haslett is basically to prove that he's willing to give his defensive coordinator a decent shot to turn things around, in the hopes of enticing someone who ordinarily wouldn't want to come to the team.

Cynical, probably not true, but not entirely crazy.

Or that there aren't many viable options, given that Raheem isn't all that well versed in the current scheme. Not entirely sure of how true that is, since he has employed some 3-4 concepts in the past. But i think its something to be considered as to why Shanny is sticking with a coach who is so clueless and can't motivate his players.

[authentic]

Unless the defense shuts down Carolina, its more than likely over.

If we lose this game, especially if Cam has a very good/great game, or even if the Skins win a high scoring game, the axe will most likely drop on him.

There's no time like the present to begin correcting problems, and with the bye week coming, the opportunity is ripe for the picking.

I think even if we win, but Carolina's offense gets off, Haz's job will still be on the, sooner than later. The fact that Shanny has gambled on 4th down so many times during the first half of the season is very telling of his confidence in the Defense. I pay very little attention to what Shanny says to the media, because you know he plays things close to the vest. However, the play on the field says a ton about how he really feels. He just does NOT trust them at all.

[Chump Bailey]

I'd like to see a Mike Nolan return personally. I don't think he and Snyder got along though...

[Long n Left]

Unless the defense shuts down Carolina, its more than likely over.

If we lose this game, especially if Cam has a very good/great game, or even if the Skins win a high scoring game, the axe will most likely drop on him.

There's no time like the present to begin correcting problems, and with the bye week coming, the opportunity is ripe for the picking.

I agree. I don't get the "we should let Haslett finish out the year" stuff. Why? Guy has shown for 2 1/2 years now that he is not up to the task. Will it really hurt this defense to make a mid season change? Things can't get much worse. Also, if it is Morris who became the interim coordinator, what better way to get a gauge on what he might bring as a coordinator for the future.

[clarkskin]

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over?

Either way, Shanahan is ulimately responsible. We like to ***** about defensive calls that give up big plays and whatnot, but why doesn't Shanahan sit Haslett down and tell him what he wants called at certain times? You think they dont talk about stuff like that? In your job if you make a mistake doesn't the boss come tell you what you did wrong so you don't do it again? We act as though the coordinators are their own bosses--i don't believe that to be true.

Like I said, I'm not any huge supporter of Haslett. But I find it funny that there are so many who assume somebody else will provide some type of miraculous fix. And what about continuity? Haven't we learned through the Snyder area that change isn't always good???

[pjfootballer]

Robinson was bad at Syracuse as a head coach and he looked as bad as Haslett as D-Coordinator at Michigan under RichRod. In fact, we can thank him for RichRod's eventual release.

Sorry to derail, but I wonder why West Virginia and Michigan fans wanted to get rid of Rodriguez. Looks like he's building a pretty good team out in Arizona. Probably the best situation for him to build the Wildcats. Michigan and WVA fans want winners now and are the types of college teams whos fans and alumni demand perfection, even when they know that is not possible.

---------- Post added November-2nd-2012 at 09:19 AM ----------

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over?

Either way, Shanahan is ulimately responsible. We like to ***** about defensive calls that give up big plays and whatnot, but why doesn't Shanahan sit Haslett down and tell him what he wants called at certain times? You think they dont talk about stuff like that? In your job if you make a mistake doesn't the boss come tell you what you did wrong so you don't do it again? We act as though the coordinators are their own bosses--i don't believe that to be true.

Like I said, I'm not any huge supporter of Haslett. But I find it funny that there are so many who assume somebody else will provide some type of miraculous fix. And what about continuity? Haven't we learned through the Snyder area that change isn't always good???

We're not looking for a miraculous fix for this year. We're looking ahead to next year, when we get our injured players back and can draft more players on defense. This year is a wash as far as I'm concerned. We're not making the playoffs. So win as many games as possible, work on some stuff and get the team prepared for next year.

[authentic]

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over? ???

...Because players have, on more than one occasion through out the season, have implied that they haven't been prepared. Opposing offensive players have expressed, on more than one occasion, that they knew exactly what we were going to do, based on certain looks.... This says 2 things: 1. There is a disconnect between the coaching staff and the players, there a certain plays were the players just aren't prepared and are LOST on the field. 2. The defense, through the eye of opposing offenses, are predictable....... If this isn't a direct result on coaching, then IDK what is.

[Ghost of]

Sorry to derail, but I wonder why West Virginia and Michigan fans wanted to get rid of Rodriguez. Looks like he's building a pretty good team out in Arizona. Probably the best situation for him to build the Wildcats. Michigan and WVA fans want winners now and are the types of college teams whos fans and alumni demand perfection, even when they know that is not possible.

Um, Michigan WAS a winning program which he then proceeded to tear down into our worst 3 year period in school history. In the process, we began to lose out on recruits we normally got, he wanted to bring EVERY aspect of WVU to Michigan, including undersized players who got blown off the ball in key moments, he mismanaged the defense, couldn't recruit a kicker (we seriously had the worst kicking game Michigan has had in the modern era) to save his life and had a decent offense that was shut down by the best defenses in the Big 10. For Christ's sake, we lost to Toledo at the Big House!

How he's doing it in Arizona is because it's exactly the kind of program that was already suffering and could put up with a rebuild. There really wasn't a need for a rebuild at Michigan, he just had to retool and adapt his system to work with blue chip talent.

The worst part is apparently the coaches were foul-mouthed and were not conducting themselves or maintaining an environment that fit the school's image or what a team should be about.

[Lavarleap56]

How do we know that Haslett is the problem and that somebody else would be better? Everybody knew going into the season that our secondary was a major weakness--we just thought our front 7 was going to be good enough to overcome that. A few key injuries later, coupled with less than stellar play from a few pieces up front has exposed that weakness. None of our corners or safeties are of starting calibur. Thats kind of hard to "coach up" as Spurrier might say.

I'm not a huge Haslett supporter or anything like that, but we get to a point with coaches where we think somebody else will be an automatic improvement. But don't forget that people get coaching positions in the NFL because they know football. Period. Take an honest look at the roster and then think about how much you can polish a turd. There is no magic man thats going to come in here and turn this current crop of players into a great or even good defense. And what justification is there for all those that are screaming for Morris to take over?

Either way, Shanahan is ulimately responsible. We like to ***** about defensive calls that give up big plays and whatnot, but why doesn't Shanahan sit Haslett down and tell him what he wants called at certain times? You think they dont talk about stuff like that? In your job if you make a mistake doesn't the boss come tell you what you did wrong so you don't do it again? We act as though the coordinators are their own bosses--i don't believe that to be true.

Like I said, I'm not any huge supporter of Haslett. But I find it funny that there are so many who assume somebody else will provide some type of miraculous fix. And what about continuity? Haven't we learned through the Snyder area that change isn't always good???

1.Not about a "miraculous fix" its about having the right coaches in place to improve and win super bowls. Haslett's 16 year history tells you he is not the type of coach to help you accomplish that goal. Longer he is in charge of a defense the worse they get.

2. Do Injuries to Orakpo & Carriker really merit a drop from 13-30s in defense? No they don't. The injury card is nice and one used in every argument when discussing what's wrong with a bad defense. Injuries happen but a good coach can still find a way to keep you competitive until the players return. A drop from 13-22 is more acceptable then falling to the bottom of the league.

3. Scheme issues - how many more opposing offensive coordinators, Qbs, WR's, NFL scouts have to say Haslett is predictable and at times his coverages don't match what he's doing up front until people think it is a issue?

4. Hard to say he doesn't have the players when Shanny and Haslett were saying they had the players for a top 5 defense in the offseason. They still have their prize Free Agents they went after in Bowen, Cofield, Wilson. Still have the draft picks in Kerrigan, Riley, Jenkins they were high on.. Still have Hall, Fletcher, Reed, Gomes which they wanted to keep on this team. Injuries are all excuse plain and simple.

5 . continuity for the sake of continuity when it's not working is a fail

on the flip side how about that offense still producing after all those injuries? What about the creative scheme hiding the deficiencies of the OL and playing toward the players strengths..

[Mahons21]

Or that there aren't many viable options, given that Raheem isn't all that well versed in the current scheme. Not entirely sure of how true that is, since he has employed some 3-4 concepts in the past. But i think its something to be considered as to why Shanny is sticking with a coach who is so clueless and can't motivate his players.

+1, upgrade if we can upgrade, don't change for the sake of change. We tried change for the sake of change with John Beck, remember how it worked out for us?

Furthermore, Raheem clearly doesn't appear to be the heir apparent as some suggested (though they're now quiet about it) earlier in the offseason. His unit is among the weakest, and these new "techniques" and "coverages" don't seem to be helping our secondary.

Romeo Crennel? Did anyone see his defense last night? The guy is working with Eric Berry, Derrick Johnson, Justin Houston, Glenn Dorsey, Dontari Poe, Brandon Flowers and I'm sure I'm leaving people off of the list. Crennel's defense was anything but impressive, allowing Phillip Rivers to basically do whatever he wanted to them outside of one silly pick. But I'm sure it's not his fault like it is Haslett's despite the fact that Crennel is working with twice as much talent.

[RWJ]

So LL, if you'd answer this question, who do we look for as DC next year besides Morris?

[Mahons21]

2. Do Injuries to Orakpo & Carriker really merit a drop from 13-30s in defense? No they don't. The injury card is nice and one used in every argument when discussing what's wrong with a bad defense. Injuries happen but a good coach can still find a way to keep you competitive until the players return. A drop from 13-22 is more acceptable then falling to the bottom of the league.

Redskins currently rank 22nd team Defense DVOA.

Rex Ryan doesn't appear to be coping well with his injuries. Same can be said for Dean Pees in Baltimore, and Dick LeBeau in PIT.

PIT ranks 20th in DVOA, and BAL ranks 24th, despite both teams still having more talent with their injuries in comparison with the Redskins.

[Lavarleap56]

+1, upgrade if we can upgrade, don't change for the sake of change. We tried change for the sake of change with John Beck, remember how it worked out for us?

Furthermore, Raheem clearly doesn't appear to be the heir apparent as some suggested (though they're now quiet about it) earlier in the offseason. His unit is among the weakest, and these new "techniques" and "coverages" don't seem to be helping our secondary.

Romeo Crennel? Did anyone see his defense last night? The guy is working with Eric Berry, Derrick Johnson, Justin Houston, Glenn Dorsey, Dontari Poe, Brandon Flowers and I'm sure I'm leaving people off of the list. Crennel's defense was anything but impressive, allowing Phillip Rivers to basically do whatever he wanted to them outside of one silly pick. But I'm sure it's not his fault like it is Haslett's despite the fact that Crennel is working with twice as much talent.

Let me stop this real quick..Raheem is still very much in play to replace Haslett. My personal preference would be they go with a guy that came up in the 3/4.

[Mania]

I'd like to see a Mike Nolan return personally. I don't think he and Snyder got along though...

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

[Chump Bailey]

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

IIRC his recent teams all have had excellent D's. He is Atlanta's coordinator presently.

[Lavarleap56]

Redskins currently rank 22nd team Defense DVOA.

Rex Ryan doesn't appear to be coping well with his injuries. Same can be said for Dean Pees in Baltimore, and Dick LeBeau in PIT.

PIT ranks 20th in DVOA, and BAL ranks 24th, despite both teams still having more talent with their injuries in comparison with the Redskins.

All that looks good but this 2012 defense has given up the 6th highest point total in the Redskins 80 year history. This defense is being helped a lot by a ball control offense that has tried to eat a ton of clock to keep them off the field.

[authentic]

Mr. Vanilla, are you serious. You must have a very bad memory :-)

I can't front, i don't want him either.. too many scars from the Norv era that i may never get over...

[Skinsinparadise]

Let me stop this real quick..Raheem is still very much in play to replace Haslett. My personal preference would be they go with a guy that came up in the 3/4.

If its Raheem interesting thing about it is its his unit that's being torched -- granted he's working with bad talent but the secondary was better last year. wonder about Ron Rivera if he's fired. Carolina's defense is decent.