Dealing with (problem) visiting fans in your section (MET)

[Skinsfan In NM]

I seriously can't belive no one has said it yet.

If you want to keep fans of opposing teams from "taking over" then pack the stadium. Quit selling your tickets on stub hub or what ever other place you are unloading them on. Give them to Skins fansif you can't or don't want to attend.

[eeyeats]

But it is just a game. Sports are a major part of my life as you can see by the ridiculous amount of time I waste on this site. Hell I'm writing/designing my M.Arch thesis on stadium design. It's still just a game.

As fans we don't even need to be taunting visiting fans. There's nothing wrong with joking around with an opposing fan and giving them a hard time but they the idea that we should verbally abuse them to the point they may not want to attend is ridiculous.

Like everyone else I would prefer if our stadium would sell out to Redskins fans so we could develop a legitimate home field advantage. However if our fans don't want to buy the tickets then by all means anyone else has just as much right to do so. If they want to attend they deserve to be able to enjoy the game without having some moron a few rows back ruining their experience.

Be an adult, and the fact that is coming from a college student should tell you something.

I completely agree with this sentiment, and you phrased it perfectly. I certainly got more heated and argumentative with opposing fans as a younger man when I went to games, and what I learned is that it ruins everyone's experience; mine, theirs, and the fans around me.

[Skinsfan In NM]

I completely agree with this sentiment, and you phrased it perfectly. I certainly got more heated and argumentative with opposing fans as a younger man when I went to games, and what I learned is that it ruins everyone's experience; mine, theirs, and the fans around me.

Not only that but come on, we are 'Skins fans not some low life eagles fan. Act accordingly, if a problem exsists then send the text and let security handle it.

[pjfootballer]

You can carry Kerosene in a flask and every time the other team scores a TD' date=' you can douse the opposing fans with it and throw matches at them.

It's hysterically funny.

Or, you know, you can be an adult and recognize that you are at sporting event where each of you have paid several hundred dollars to be entertained.

You know what I hate? I hate when I'm at the symphony and ****es are talking about how great the woodwinds are. Strings for life, son![/quote']

Percussion for me, yo!

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 01:44 PM ----------

I think it's fast past the point, with the repeated incidents of violence we keep reading on here from many different fans from a wide section of society, and not just Redskins fans; that football organizations started setting aside a separate, segregated area for visiting fans. And any known visiting fan, say wearing colors, that try's to enter the 'home' sections gets refused entry at the gate. You could also take this further and set aside whole blocks as 'family sections'; which would improve the game-day experience of those with children measurably.

It baffles me how such simple things to implement, to name but two, continue to go untapped in American stadiums. Even more so the more loutish fan behavior is becoming with each passing year.

Hail.

You see designated sections when watching college football. Most of the crowd is red (Oklahoma for you) and then when K-State comes in, there is one section (usually in the endzone) that is purple.

[Bang]

Went to a Dallas game once with some old vets on this board, Om and Blade... and believe me, when you go to game with Blade, you damn sure better be rooting for the Redskins in his seats. He3 was very instrumental in making sure we made appropriate noise when we were supposed to. He doesn't take 'no' for an answer when it comes to that.. lol.. i swear i've never been so hoarse after game then that night.

There was a Cowboys fan in front of us, and he looked decidedly nervous. Just a regular guy, wearing his Cowboys jersey.

We lost,, this was the MNF game in which Rod Gardner ended up about 3 yards short of the win when time ran out and he was unable to get out of bounds.

a bitter loss. And do you know what we did to that Dallas fan in front of us?

Nothing. In fact, during the game we talked with him and generally watched the game together.

It was a tight game, we made plenty of noise, and it was much more fun to watch the game WITH this guy than against him.

You can enjoy some rivalry without it getting personal or out of hand

There's a word. for this..

Maturity.

~Bang

[Godfather151981]

Well Columbus Crew traditional rivals(before NYRB). They still had playoff hopes too. Notice they picked seats in the far back of the endzone area away from the supporters sections. It was pretty hilarious for us fans in the Screaming Eagle, La Norte, DC Ultras, and Barra Brava section. Best way to make them shut up is score goals which we did. That and the chants completely covered them up everywhere else. You only heard them mouth off cuz you were sitting right in front of them.

Sidenote: Long time since I've seen so much beer fly in the air like it did the last goal. Don't you love how all the supporters know how to make their beer last after last call:ols:? We're masters

I'd prefer my beer be cold as opposed to letting it sit and warm up!

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 02:13 PM ----------

But it is just a game. Sports are a major part of my life as you can see by the ridiculous amount of time I waste on this site. Hell I'm writing/designing my M.Arch thesis on stadium design. It's still just a game.

As fans we don't even need to be taunting visiting fans. There's nothing wrong with joking around with an opposing fan and giving them a hard time but they the idea that we should verbally abuse them to the point they may not want to attend is ridiculous.

Like everyone else I would prefer if our stadium would sell out to Redskins fans so we could develop a legitimate home field advantage. However if our fans don't want to buy the tickets then by all means anyone else has just as much right to do so. If they want to attend they deserve to be able to enjoy the game without having some moron a few rows back ruining their experience.

Be an adult, and the fact that is coming from a college student should tell you something.

I understand what you're saying, and no I'm not in favor of violence or anything like that. But I'm sorry, if you come into my section and are rooting for the opposing team (aside from women and children) you're going to hear it from me and my friend. Part of the issue is that it's gotten to the point that we take it as lightly as we do. I don't buy the whole "it's just a game and we're here to have fun" idea. Watching the Redskins is three excruciating (sp?) hours for me because I get so nerved out about winning the game. When I was a kid I'd try to feint illness on Mondays after losses so that I wouldn't have to go in I'd be so distraught. (And I grew up in the 1980's so losing wasn't something that happened very often.) Part of the problem is that we've gotten to the point to where we're soft. I have season tickets and there are constantly people asking my friend and I to quiet down because their ears hurt. Don't come to the game if you don't want to deal with noise! Again, we've gotten soft. No offense, but to say that visitors should be treated courteously in an opposing stadium goes against everything I believe. (Again, no violence under any circumstances - unless I'm provoked - but you're going to hear if from me if you come into my section wearing anything other than burgundy and gold.

[Drakkhim]

This past Sunday, I attended my second NFL game, which was the first time I got to see the Redskins. To say that I was excited is an understatement. I drove up with one of my best friends who is a Steelers fan, decked out in a Roethlisberger jersey and smothered in black and gold. We arrived in our pre-paid lot, used the facilities and made our way to the game. We were represented I'd say probably 30:1. My first encounter was walking out of our lot where there were 20 guys cooking and drinking fine liquor. They all booed me hard, pointing and yelling, "John Riggins suuuuuuuuuuuucks!" I simply turned my head, smiled and kept walking towards Heinz Field while Griffining.

Our seats were in Section 137, about 30 rows from the field and were from season ticket holders who couldn't make the game. The couple directly in front of us were WVU fans, so we hit it off with them pretty good. I ate my fair share of crap from them, but the couple to their left. Oh, man. They wouldn't let me be! Every time the Steelers would make a big play or score, the girl would tap my knee and just smile, talking trash. But, it wasn't mean trash at all. The kind of trash you get hanging out with your buddies in the basement. There were two dudes that sat directly to the right of us who were super great. A big bearded guy, named Brian bought me and my friend two Yuengling's and even shared a huge bucket of Quaker Steak & Lube hot wings with us. During halftime, I was using the piss trough and I kept hearing this really drunk guy yelling, "JOHN RIGGINS SUUUUUUUCKS," right by the entrance to the bathroom. After he yelled at me three times, while still trying to use the restroom, I ****ed my head back and yelled, "John Riggins can drink more beer than you ANYDAY!!" That comment got a bunch of laughs from Redskins and Steelers fans alike.

My first experience at an away game for our boys was pleasant. I'd like to think that even if we had won, the folks around us would have still been that cool. A lot of my friends are Steelers fans, so I talk about their football team quite a bit and fit in pretty well.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Part of the problem is that we treat is as "just a game." To fans of other teams (and some Skins fans like me), sports is a MAJOR part of life. Those people laugh at us when they come to our stadium and take over. That has to change, and if we're not willing to put our feet down it'll continue to get worse.

So, you think Redskin fans need to totally lose perspective and make football a more important part of their life than is justified.

I'll pass.

[Bang]

I understand what you're saying, and no I'm not in favor of violence or anything like that. But I'm sorry, if you come into my section and are rooting for the opposing team (aside from women and children) you're going to hear it from me and my friend.

Does this take into account any other wmen or kids who may be nearby?

Part of the issue is that it's gotten to the point that we take it as lightly as we do. I don't buy the whole "it's just a game and we're here to have fun" idea.

But this is YOUR problem, don't you see that?

YOU can't separate a recreational activity from this life and death thing you've made it into, so much so that you will harrass other paying customers.

Again, we've gotten soft. No offense, but to say that visitors should be treated courteously in an opposing stadium goes against everything I believe. (Again, no violence under any circumstances - unless I'm provoked - but you're going to hear if from me if you come into my section wearing anything other than burgundy and gold.

What are some examples of what you might say to someone wearing a Giants jersey in your section?

~Bang

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Went to a Dallas game once with some old vets on this board, Om and Blade... and believe me, when you go to game with Blade, you damn sure better be rooting for the Redskins in his seats. He3 was very instrumental in making sure we made appropriate noise when we were supposed to. He doesn't take 'no' for an answer when it comes to that.. lol.. i swear i've never been so hoarse after game then that night.

There was a Cowboys fan in front of us, and he looked decidedly nervous. Just a regular guy, wearing his Cowboys jersey.

We lost,, this was the MNF game in which Rod Gardner ended up about 3 yards short of the win when time ran out and he was unable to get out of bounds.

a bitter loss. And do you know what we did to that Dallas fan in front of us?

Nothing. In fact, during the game we talked with him and generally watched the game together.

It was a tight game, we made plenty of noise, and it was much more fun to watch the game WITH this guy than against him.

You can enjoy some rivalry without it getting personal or out of hand

There's a word. for this..

Maturity.

~Bang

I read about that in Om's Epic Poem

Languid Thoughts Whilst Watching Gardner Struggle for a Whistle that Never Shall Arrive

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Trash talking is a part of sports and especially rivalries, but it's really unfortunate when it gets out of hand. Anytime you add alcohol to a testosterone charged event, there will be incidents. Period.

I wish we could all sit in the stands, cheer loudly for our teams, talk a little smack back and forth, and then grab a beer together after the game. But that isn't reality. It never will be. The reality is that when you walk into an opposing teams arena and cheer loudly for your team, you are putting yourself at risk. It is the real life version of "trolling". I'm not saying that I agree with it, but it is what it is.

[Godfather151981]

Does this take into account any other wmen or kids who may be nearby?

But this is YOUR problem, don't you see that?

YOU can't separate a recreational activity from this life and death thing you've made it into, so much so that you will harrass other paying customers.

What are some examples of what you might say to someone wearing a Giants jersey in your section?

~Bang

What I'm saying is that most fans around the NFL aren't this happy-go-lucky bunch that's welcoming of everyone in their stadium. I really do feel that the impression of Redskins fans is that we're on the soft side. Someone from Pittsburgh, NY, Philly, Chicago, etc might read this thread and wonder what's wrong with people in DC...they want to be polite and welcoming to visiting fans?

You asked about the Giants; what someone else described in their post about going to Heinz Field is pretty much the kind of stuff that I do. (They were mocking Riggo; I might say something about Lawrence Taylor hooking up with minors or something like that.) It's not insulting someone's mother or anything along those lines, but it gets the message across. It also sounds like in that case he expected to get ribbed, which is something that most visiting fans coming into FedEx can't seem to understand. The fact is that I don't want visitors in our stadium, and if we could all band together and make them somewhat miserable perhaps they'll go away. Instead we have people that actually defend them coming! C'mon people get with the program!

As for the women and children, my Dad used to take me to Maryland football/basketball and Orioles games at Memorial Stadium as a kid. (We'd go to Skins games from time to time also but he was a Colts fan growing up and back then Skins tickets were hard to come by.) As we drove up to the stadium we'd always have a conversation about "you're going to hear some bad words at the game today and I don't want you repeating them in front of your mother...and so forth." Back then the concept was "if you go out in public you deal with public language." I still believe that today. I'm not saying that every word out of my mouth is a profanity, however occasionally I drop the F-bomb during games and I make no apologies about it if some kid happens to be in earshot. The onus is on their parents to tell them not to repeat those words, not on me to cater my language to what the parents want. And as I said, I do try to curtail it a bit if kids are around but ultimately it happens, especially in stadiums.

[Fight for ole DC]

IMO this has to do with people behaving in a civilized and respectful manner towars others. In my limited experience at home games (2 games in the last 5 years) it was Redskins fans who were the biggest problem. Most people in my section behaved like civilized people but there always seems to be a few who just don't get it and cause the most problems for others.

I've been to about a dozen Cardinals games in Arizona and it's the same, just a few idiots causing most of the problems. The difference is there are far more fans of visiting teams than I've seen at Redskins home games.

I think anyone who wants (or is willing) to find trouple at a game can find it. Anyone who is civilized enough to avoid trouble and ignore the idiots can still enjoy the game. Yes, it's a lot harder when our team loses and it will take more restraint to deal with fools but a responsible person can and will avoid trouble.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... You see designated sections when watching college football. Most of the crowd is red (Oklahoma for you) and then when K-State comes in, there is one section (usually in the endzone) that is purple.

Right. So why has this never transitioned to the pro-game?

Safety should be paramount in every stadium. And it's becoming more and more apparent with each passing generation opposing fans can't mix safely.

Hail.

[pjfootballer]

Right. So why has this never transitioned to the pro-game?

Safety should be paramount in every stadium. And it's becoming more and more apparent with each passing generation opposing fans can't mix safely.

Hail.

Not sure man. I'd love to have a Visitors Only section for Fed Ex and when I watch the Skins on the road. I see them here in Charlotte and I've been to Atlanta and Nashville.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Right. So why has this never transitioned to the pro-game?

Safety should be paramount in every stadium. And it's becoming more and more apparent with each passing generation opposing fans can't mix safely.

Hail.

Because NFL teams have not historically operated under the same business model as the college game. The teams are splitting the money made on the game like they do in the college game.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Not sure man. I'd love to have a Visitors Only section for Fed Ex and when I watch the Skins on the road. I see them here in Charlotte and I've been to Atlanta and Nashville.

That's another great point. When your the visiting fan. It puts you all together, rather than spread out all over the place and heightens both your experience and the effect you can have as a group. Rather than lone voices dotted all over the stadium.

Simple, little things that could be implemented overnight to make the whole experience better for everyone.

Hail.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

That's another great point. When your the visiting fan. It puts you all together, rather than spread out all over the place and heightens both your experience and the effect you can have as a group. Rather than lone voices dotted all over the stadium.

Simple, little things that could be implemented overnight to make the whole experience better for everyone.

Hail.

How on earth could that be implemented overnight?

When Oklahoma hosts Oklahoma State, they give OSU a portion of the gate money and X number of tickets to sell. When the Skins play the Giants, the keep the gate money and give the Giants a few hundred tickets. If a Season Ticket holder sells their ticket to a Giants fan, how do you direct them to a different seat?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Because NFL teams have not historically operated under the same business model as the college game. The teams are splitting the money made on the game like they do in the college game.

For those of us not financially inclined to the point of missing something here ('K' date=' for 'those of us' read moi); what am I missing that makes segregation so difficult?

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 03:12 PM ----------

How on earth could that be implemented overnight?

When Oklahoma hosts Oklahoma State' date=' they give OSU a portion of the gate money and X number of tickets to sell. When the Skins play the Giants, the keep the gate money and give the Giants a few hundred tickets. If a Season Ticket holder sells their ticket to a Giants fan, how do you direct them to a different seat?[/quote']

You make it known the rules of your stadium now refuse entry to opposition fans not holding a visitors area ticket. If an opposing fan in a Giants jersey say try's to enter, he's stopped at the gate and refused admission. Even better if the league made it a rule

I don't see the stumbling block in giving over a section you can control and segregate to opposition fans. What am I missing on the financial side here?

Hail.

[renaissance]

For those of us not financially inclined to the point of missing something here ('K, for 'those of us' read moi); what am I missing that makes segregation so difficult?

Hail.

It's changing a culture.

In MLS they do segregate supporters sections - when we went to Philly this year we were literally fenced in to our own section of the stadium. This is "normal" for MLS, though, because it's normal for soccer. Despite that, as a visiting fan you can purchase regular seats at an MLS match. You just are expected to conform to the non-supporter section rules of sitting on your ass and all that jazz.

In college football/basketball it's similar, you have the home student section and a visitor's section (ticket allotment sold to the visiting school), but you will usually see random visiting fans mixed in throughout the stadium/arena.

Other American pro sports have no such system and the culture just isn't the same. Perhaps it's in part bc we have so many corporate/casual fans? Also, there are no supporter's groups in the NFL and there are no student tickets to be sold. The NFL wants to sell tickets to anyone who will buy them, not necessarily to lifelong or diehard fans. If a Dallas fan wants to spend hundreds of dollars on 50 yd line tickets at FedEx, the NFL is certainly not going to stop them.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 04:23 PM ----------

I'd prefer my beer be cold as opposed to letting it sit and warm up!

You don't really have much choice when they stopped selling beer 15 minutes ago.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You make it known the rules of your stadium now refuse entry to opposition fans not holding a visitors area ticket. If an opposing fan in a Giants jersey say try's to enter, he's stopped at the gate and refused admission. Even better if the league made it a rule

I don't see the stumbling block in giving over a section you can control and segregate to opposition fans. What am I missing on the financial side here?

Hail.

How do you identify an opposing fan? Jerseys? Ok...they just don't wear jerseys any longer.

Also, you would absolutely destroy the secondary ticket market (which is a revenue source for the team) if you did that.

NFL teams need to fill their stadiums (stadia?!?!). They do not share the revenue brought in from ticket sales, food and beverage, or parking. This is where they make their profit. (Shared revenue more or less covers the operating expenses).

College teams need to fill out a schedule. In order to fill out a schedule, they entere into contracts with other schools.

We will give you 10 percent of the gate and 5,000 tickets. NFL teams do not do this.

The Redskins (and most NFL clubs) do not sell individual game tickets except as a last minute thing.

[Bang]

What I'm saying is that most fans around the NFL aren't this happy-go-lucky bunch that's welcoming of everyone in their stadium. I really do feel that the impression of Redskins fans is that we're on the soft side. Someone from Pittsburgh, NY, Philly, Chicago, etc might read this thread and wonder what's wrong with people in DC...they want to be polite and welcoming to visiting fans?

You asked about the Giants; what someone else described in their post about going to Heinz Field is pretty much the kind of stuff that I do. (They were mocking Riggo; I might say something about Lawrence Taylor hooking up with minors or something like that.) It's not insulting someone's mother or anything along those lines, but it gets the message across. It also sounds like in that case he expected to get ribbed, which is something that most visiting fans coming into FedEx can't seem to understand. The fact is that I don't want visitors in our stadium, and if we could all band together and make them somewhat miserable perhaps they'll go away. Instead we have people that actually defend them coming! C'mon people get with the program!

As for the women and children, my Dad used to take me to Maryland football/basketball and Orioles games at Memorial Stadium as a kid. (We'd go to Skins games from time to time also but he was a Colts fan growing up and back then Skins tickets were hard to come by.) As we drove up to the stadium we'd always have a conversation about "you're going to hear some bad words at the game today and I don't want you repeating them in front of your mother...and so forth." Back then the concept was "if you go out in public you deal with public language." I still believe that today. I'm not saying that every word out of my mouth is a profanity, however occasionally I drop the F-bomb during games and I make no apologies about it if some kid happens to be in earshot. The onus is on their parents to tell them not to repeat those words, not on me to cater my language to what the parents want. And as I said, I do try to curtail it a bit if kids are around but ultimately it happens, especially in stadiums.

I hear you.

I also believe you can jeer other fans good naturedly, but there's a definite line.

I don't think it's right to make opposing fans afraid to come to our stadium.. so long as they're also mindful of where the line is. Clearly they're going to be outnumbered, so it"s not like they'll be terribly disruptive to our team's effort.

the line is pretty obvious, IMO, and so long as things don't progress to being actually rude (as opposed to the playful rudeness that fans can enjoy), or degenerate to violence, it's pretty easy for folks to get along and still be rivals.

~Bang

[E33Green]

Right. So why has this never transitioned to the pro-game

Not sure man. I'd love to have a Visitors Only section for Fed Ex and when I watch the Skins on the road. I see them here in Charlotte and I've been to Atlanta and Nashville.

I have thought of this as a solution as well after seeing how the EPL completely changed it's culture from the hooligan days of the 80's.

I imagine there is some type of NFL mandate that prohibits segregated seating not to mention the team missed any chance it had at implementing such a policy in 1997 when FedEx opened.

In my ideal world, at the opening of Jack Kent Cooke Stadium there would have been 8,000 seats set aside together in the corner of the upper level strictly for away fans. Away fans wishing to attend any Redskins game would have purchase these tickets directly through the team they support; that way teams can monitor the regular away attendees and potentially ban them from all NFL stadiums for bad behavior. This would also allow teams to reward their most loyal and well behaved traveling fans.

Away fans who purchase seats outside of the designated visiting fan section would be expected to dress and behave in a way not to provoke the home fans: ie. no wearing of any visiting team apparel or colors and blend in with the redskins fans as much as possible. Any visiting fan caught wearing colors or cheering/booing boisterously in a home section would be immediately ejected from the stadium as is common practice in the EPL. (imagine an Everton fan wearing his colors, singing, and trying to sit in the Kop End at Anfield for a derby match...the guy would be lucky to escape with his life!)

I think the other big problem would be with the Redskins season ticket holders. Say a Skins STH can't attend a night kickoff because of work or family responsibilities. The STH puts his or her tix on Stubhub/Craiglist. The few times I have listed tickets on resale websites, it is always the away fans that are willing to pay face value or higher while the Redskins fans beg for a "hometown" discount. How do the Redskins prevent STH's from selling to away fans, especially when it is often only the away fans who are willing to pay a reasonable price? Why should I be forced to subsidize my season tickets for someone just because that person is a Skins fan? Trying to regulate the secondary ticket market in that way goes against almost every economic principle that America was founded on.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

If they get by-pass your security, then it goes one of two ways. They either sit on their hands, and don't let their allegiance be known. Or they do, and they get ejected. The same way CCTV in all sections of the stadium could identify in seconds Redskin trouble makers, and afford you the option of banning them if need be for the most persistent trouble causers.

Excuse my ignorance again L_k_B, but how is the team hit by 'secondary market' sales? If they've already sold the ticket, surely the secondary market only then effects whom ever is trying to sell it on? Unless your meaning the possibility of those tickets not being sold on, and empty seats costing an organization in game day revenue from concessions etc.

And thanks ren.

The only thing to say to that is the more incidents that keep occurring of trouble, and if these here boards are anything to go by, FedEx to name but one NFL stadium is seeing this becoming more and more a prevalent issue; the more this issue will hopefully be pushed to the forefront and things will eventually change.

Hail.

[Drakkhim]

I think it's up to the home team fans to be responsible for each other when one of your own is being a complete, blithering idiot. You wouldn't want that kind of person acting that way at your home game.