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Obama vs Romney 3: The Rubber Match in Boca Raton-Foreign Policy Debate


88Comrade2000

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Well in less than 19 hours is the final debate. This one is on Foreign Policy.

Frankly, this should've been the last debate and tonight's debate should've been the town hall debate.

---------- Post added October-22nd-2012 at 12:30 AM ----------

Obama should win this easily because he is the President. The incumbent has the advantage over the challenger. Romney has fumbled badly on his foreign policy statements so far. Good thing for him that the election is about the economy. He's just needs to hold his own and not stumble badly. It looks like Obama hasn't gotten much of bounce from his last debate. So, Romney should just play it safe.

Obama can reassure Americans that he is President and use the issue to showcase his strengths and why he should be back. He needs to make Romney look like a fool. If he's going to be like that on Russia, can you imagine him running your economy.

Barring a complete stumble; I don't think this debate will matter much. The final 2 weeks will be about the economy. Still 9 more days for any October surprise and a November surprise that final weekend. I am already predicting that the October unemployment rate will be 7.3%.

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Tonight's debate is taking place about 5 miles from my house. Local traffic should be a pleasure today. ;)

Here in the battleground of Northern Virginia we've had multiple recent visits from Obama and Romney. Robocalls fill our voicemail every few days. TV is saturated with ads.

I wonder if people in safe states such as California or Alabama even know there's an election soon. :ols:

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Here in the battleground of Northern Virginia we've had multiple recent visits from Obama and Romney. Robocalls fill our voicemail every few days. TV is saturated with ads.

I wonder if people in safe states such as California or Alabama even know there's an election soon. :ols:

Thanks to living in Maryland I get all the friggin' Romney and Obama ads even though Maryland is safely blue.

Thanks a lot, Virginia person! Now I have to suffer through more ads on TV! :-)

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Who can prove to be more hawkish tonight?

Drones- the same

Iran- the same

China- the same

Afghanistan- the same

Syria- the same

Disagree.

Romney will be adamant that everything Obama has done has been terrible.

He never should have intervened in the Libyian revolution. Act of War, unconstitutional, made things worse. And he absolutely should have intervened in Syria. Brutal dictator. State sponsor of terrorism. Civilians are being murdered. All Obama's fault.

Romney will not, of course, have any specific plans of his own. (I wonder if Obama will bring up Romney traveling to Israel, so that he could promise, in Israel, that if elected, the US will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital?) But he will be absolutely certain that Obama has not done a single thing right, during his entire term, and that Romney would have been vastly better.

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Will tonight prove to finally be the point where America realizes that both candidates are War Mongers?

At least if you define "war monger" as "lent support to a revolution of the citizens, against their long-time dictator (who is also a state sponsor of terrorism), for a few weeks, without a single American casualty, and probably with very few Americans even in the country in question. And who has been getting beat up, in public, for months, for not intervening in another one."

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At least if you define "war monger" as "lent support to a revolution of the citizens, against their long-time dictator (who is also a state sponsor of terrorism), for a few weeks, without a single American casualty, and probably with very few Americans even in the country in question. And who has been getting beat up, in public, for months, for not intervening in another one."

Nope, pretty much by any definition. Thanks for the input anyway though.

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Nope, pretty much by any definition.

Funny. I thought that at least one of the definitions of "war monger" was "somebody who starts a war".

Could you point me at the one Obama started?

Or is that definition not "pretty much any definition"?

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I'm not sure what tone tonight's debate will take. Obama can't attack too much, can he? Foreign policy is not a widely debated topic these days, so any Obama attempt to nail Romney down as extreme will simply give Romney a good opportunity to appear nice and moderate in front of people. The same goes for Romney, for a different reason. He won't want to be too aggressive because he doesn't want to come across as a war monger.

So I'm not exactly sure what Obama will do. I suspect he'll make technical points on Israel (Jerusalem as Capital?), and more general points on:

1. support for immigration reform

2. sanctions on Iran working (will be the most interesting topic)

3. populism on China (Romney will too)

4. drone attacks a positive

5. he got Bin Laden (should be #1 on this list)

6. Romney as a debt guy with $2 trillion in extra DoD spending (risk for Obama here is letting Romney explain his plan)

I expect Romney to hit on tactics, specifically:

1. the story on Benghazi, perhaps juxtaposed with Obama's refusal to call Ft. Hood and the underwear bomber terrorists?

2. "undermining" Isreal by proposing that negotiations start with the 67 borders.

3. arming Al Qaida in Syria.

4. failure to reset with Russia, and giving up our missle defense program (and selling our Polish friends out) without gaining anything

5. fast and furious, generally

6. Sequestration of DoD

I could be 100% wrong, but I expect this to be a technical debate with neither candidate wanting to attack too much because of the opening it gives their opponent, and Romney in particular trying to tie as many of these things as possible back to the economy and domestic energy production.

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Funny. I thought that at least one of the definitions of "war monger" was "somebody who starts a war".

Could you point me at the one Obama started?

Or is that definition not "pretty much any definition"?

Libya is a good start, I'd look at Yemin and Pakistan as well. , the definition also includes remaining in wars endlessly too. Just look and you will see my friend. The President is no lover of peace by any definition. To try to claim otherwise is dishonest. (add in rendition, NDAA and torture and you have a nice little GWB style trifecta too.)

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Libya is a good start, I'd look at Yemin and Pakistan as well. , the definition also includes remaining in wars endlessly too. Just look and you will see my friend. The President is no lover of peace by any definition. To try to claim otherwise is dishonest. (add in rendition, NDAA and torture and you have a nice little GWB style trifecta too.)

Wait, I'm confused----we started wars in Libya, Yemin and Pakistan?

Jesus Christ, how long was I asleep for last night...

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Wait, I'm confused----we started wars in Libya, Yemin and Pakistan?

Jesus Christ, how long was I asleep for last night...

Since its been quite sometime, it seems you have been asleep for a long while. Is it really news? I thought this was fairly common knowledge. Oh, lets not forget somalia too while we are at it.

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Since its been quite sometime, it seems you have been asleep for a long while. Is it really news? I thought this was fairly common knowledge. Oh, lets not forget somalia too while we are at it.

So your definition of "war" is "any military action we've taken that I personally disagree with".

Good. At least we know the parameters of the debate.

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So your definition of "war" is "any military action we've taken that I personally disagree with".

Good. At least we know the parameters of the debate.

Nope, it's pretty much anytime we use the military to kill people. Again, thats a pretty easy definition to understand is it not?

Sorry you believe that its otherwise.

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No, because my agreement has no bearing on the definition.

Why would you call it anything but war in any instance that we bomb people in another country?

Because I exist in reality, and you're actively defining any and every military action any President has ever authorized a war, whether it actually is one or not.

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so whats the difference? Please explain what is a war and what isnt.

Duh, Congress never declared a war so we aren't at war.

Which US Presidents were not warmongers by your definition?

The US has been at war, one way or another for 214 years since the American revolution :)

Its in our DNA to go overseas and kill people. This President has made it far easier to do so without considering the costs to America because we now have 28 year olds in Neveda launching missles from drones flying over the middle east

Year-by-year Timeline of America’s Major Wars (1776-2011)

1776 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamagua Wars, Second Cherokee War, Pennamite-Yankee War

1777 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Second Cherokee War, Pennamite-Yankee War

1778 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1779 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1780 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1781 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1782 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1783 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War

1784 – Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War, Oconee War

1785 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1786 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1787 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1788 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1789 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1790 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1791 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1792 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1793 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1794 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War

1795 – Northwest Indian War

1796 – No major war

1797 – No major war

1798 – Quasi-War

1799 – Quasi-War

1800 – Quasi-War

1801 – First Barbary War

1802 – First Barbary War

1803 – First Barbary War

1804 – First Barbary War

1805 – First Barbary War

1806 – Sabine Expedition

1807 – No major war

1808 – No major war

1809 – No major war

1810 – U.S. occupies Spanish-held West Florida

1811 – Tecumseh’s War

1812 – War of 1812, Tecumseh’s War, Seminole Wars, U.S. occupies Spanish-held Amelia Island and other parts of East Florida

1813 – War of 1812, Tecumseh’s War, Peoria War, Creek War, U.S. expands its territory in West Florida

1814 – War of 1812, Creek War, U.S. expands its territory in Florida, Anti-piracy war

1815 – War of 1812, Second Barbary War, Anti-piracy war

1816 - First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war

1817 - First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war

1818 – First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war

1819 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war

1820 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war

1821 – Anti-piracy war (see note above)

1822 – Anti-piracy war (see note above)

1823 – Anti-piracy war, Arikara War

1824 – Anti-piracy war

1825 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war

1826 – No major war

1827 – Winnebago War

1828 – No major war

1829 – No major war

1830 – No major war

1831 - Sac and Fox Indian War

1832 – Black Hawk War

1833 – Cherokee Indian War

1834 – Cherokee Indian War, Pawnee Indian Territory Campaign

1835 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War

1836 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War, Missouri-Iowa Border War

1837 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War, Osage Indian War, Buckshot War

1838 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Buckshot War, Heatherly Indian War

1839 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars

1840 – Seminole Wars, U.S. naval forces invade Fiji Islands

1841 – Seminole Wars, U.S. naval forces invade McKean Island, Gilbert Islands, and Samoa

1842 – Seminole Wars

1843 – U.S. forces clash with Chinese, U.S. troops invade African coast

1844 – Texas-Indian Wars

1845 – Texas-Indian Wars

1846 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars

1847 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars

1848 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War

1849 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians

1850 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, California Indian Wars, Pitt River Expedition

1851 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, California Indian Wars

1852 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, California Indian Wars

1853 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, Walker War, California Indian Wars

1854 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians

1855 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Yakima War, Winnas Expedition, Klickitat War, Puget Sound War, Rogue River Wars, U.S. forces invade Fiji Islands and Uruguay

1856 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Puget Sound War, Rogue River Wars, Tintic War

1857 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Utah War, Conflict in Nicaragua

1858 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Mohave War, California Indian Wars, Spokane-Coeur d’Alene-Paloos War, Utah War, U.S. forces invade Fiji Islands and Uruguay

1859 Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Pecos Expedition, Antelope Hills Expedition, Bear River Expedition, John Brown’s raid, U.S. forces launch attack against Paraguay, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1860 – Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Paiute War, Kiowa-Comanche War

1861 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign

1862 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Dakota War of 1862,

1863 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Colorado War, Goshute War

1864 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Colorado War, Snake War

1865 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Colorado War, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War

1866 – Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Franklin County War, U.S. invades Mexico, Conflict with China

1867 – Texas-Indian Wars, Long Walk of the Navajo, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War, U.S. troops occupy Nicaragua and attack Taiwan

1868 – Texas-Indian Wars, Long Walk of the Navajo, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Comanche Wars, Battle of Wa****a River, Franklin County War

1869 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War

1870 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War

1871 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War, Kingsley Cave Massacre, U.S. forces invade Korea

1872 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Modoc War, Franklin County War

1873 – Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Modoc War, Apache Wars, Cypress Hills Massacre, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1874 – Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Red River War, Mason County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1875 – Conflict in Mexico, Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Eastern Nevada, Mason County War, Colfax County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1876 – Texas-Indian Wars, Black Hills War, Mason County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1877 – Texas-Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Black Hills War, Nez Perce War, Mason County War, Lincoln County War, San Elizario Salt War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1878 – Paiute Indian conflict, Bannock War, Cheyenne War, Lincoln County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1879 – Cheyenne War, Sheepeater Indian War, White River War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1880 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1881 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1882 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1883 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1884 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1885 – Apache Wars, Eastern Nevada Expedition, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1886 – Apache Wars, Pleasant Valley War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1887 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1888 – U.S. show of force against Haiti, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1889 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1890 – Sioux Indian War, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Ghost Dance War, Wounded Knee, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1891 – Sioux Indian War, Ghost Dance War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1892 – Johnson County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico

1893 – U.S. forces invade Mexico and Hawaii

1894 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1895 - U.S. forces invade Mexico, Bannock Indian Disturbances

1896 – U.S. forces invade Mexico

1897 – No major war

1898 – Spanish-American War, Battle of Leech Lake, Chippewa Indian Disturbances

1899 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1900 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1901 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1902 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1903 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1904 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1905 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1906 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1907 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1908 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1909 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1910 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1911 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1912 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars

1913 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars, New Mexico Navajo War

1914 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico

1915 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico, Colorado Paiute War

1916 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico

1917 – Banana Wars, World War I, U.S. invades Mexico

1918 – Banana Wars, World War I, U.S invades Mexico

1919 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico

1920 – Banana Wars

1921 – Banana Wars

1922 – Banana Wars

1923 – Banana Wars, Posey War

1924 – Banana Wars

1925 – Banana Wars

1926 – Banana Wars

1927 – Banana Wars

1928 – Banana Wars

1930 – Banana Wars

1931 – Banana Wars

1932 – Banana Wars

1933 – Banana Wars

1934 – Banana Wars

1935 – No major war

1936 – No major war

1937 – No major war

1938 – No major war

1939 – No major war

1940 – No major war

1941 – World War II

1942 – World War II

1943 – Wold War II

1944 – World War II

1945 – World War II

1946 – Cold War (U.S. occupies the Philippines and South Korea)

1947 – Cold War (U.S. occupies South Korea, U.S. forces land in Greece to fight Communists)

1948 – Cold War (U.S. forces aid Chinese Nationalist Party against Communists)

1949 - Cold War (U.S. forces aid Chinese Nationalist Party against Communists)

1950 – Korean War, Jayuga Uprising

1951 – Korean War

1952 – Korean War

1953 – Korean War

1954 – Covert War in Guatemala

1955 – Vietnam War

1956 – Vietnam War

1957 – Vietnam War

1958 – Vietnam War

1959 – Vietnam War, Conflict in Haiti

1960 – Vietam War

1961 – Vietnam War

1962 – Vietnam War, Cold War (Cuban Missile Crisis; U.S. marines fight Communists in Thailand)

1963 – Vietnam War

1964 – Vietnam War

1965 – Vietnam War, U.S. occupation of Dominican Republic

1966 – Vietnam War, U.S. occupation of Dominican Republic

1967 – Vietnam War

1968 – Vietnam War

1969 – Vietnam War

1970 – Vietnam War

1971 – Vietnam War

1972 – Vietnam War

1973 – Vietnam War, U.S. aids Israel in Yom Kippur War

1974 – Vietnam War

1975 – Vietnam War

1976 – No major war

1977 – No major war

1978 – No major war

1979 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)

1980 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)

1981 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), First Gulf of Sidra Incident

1982 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon

1983 – Cold War (Invasion of Grenada, CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon

1984 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Persian Gulf

1985 - Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)

1986 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)

1987 – Conflict in Persian Gulf

1988 – Conflict in Persian Gulf, U.S. occupation of Panama

1989 – Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, U.S. occupation of Panama, Conflict in Philippines

1990 – First Gulf War, U.S. occupation of Panama

1991 – First Gulf War

1992 – Conflict in Iraq

1993 – Conflict in Iraq

1994 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti

1995 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti, NATO bombing of Bosnia and Herzegovina

1996 – Conflict in Iraq

1997 – No major war

1998 – Bombing of Iraq, Missile strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan

1999 – Kosovo War

2000 – No major war

2001 – War on Terror in Afghanistan

2002 – War on Terror in Afghanistan and Yemen

2003 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, and Iraq

2004 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2005 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2006 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2007 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen

2008 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2009 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2010 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen

2011 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen; Conflict in Libya (Libyan Civil War)

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