Should Kyle still be calling our plays on offense?

[armada58]

My biggest issue is that the offense is not evolving at all. It's stuck on the wishbone, option run, play action to the WR over the middle stuff. Those plays have been effective and should certainly be a part of the play book. However, we're just missing so many other things right now......

Where's the 3 and 5 step drop game? Everything seems to be in shotgun/pistol right now.

Where's the bootleg game? Isn't RGIII born to do that stuff?

I guess Hankerson is incapable of running the red zone fade pattern? Are we even going to TRY and use his size in the red zone?

Where's the spread formation? Lining up in that wishbone thing completely bottles up our offense. All the players get bunched up in the middle of the field.

Where's our perimeter passing game? Can we at least TRY to establish a passing game outside the numbers?

Can I assume that RB Screen Passes have been completely ripped out of the playbook? Have we even tried to run one after Helu left?

Again, as I said earlier, my biggest beef right now is that there is no evolution to our offense. This wishbone stuff is completely unsustainable. It's a valuable piece of a larger puzzle but it can't be the base offense to build around.

[pjfootballer]

Wow, Kyle!!! Never, ever, never, ever, never in a million years would I have predicted you'd call a sweep/stretch at 4th and goal on the one. Way to go champ. You fooled them all yet again.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 11:25 AM ----------

Kyle needs to call better plays in the redzone. We did a decent job moving the ball when our receivers actually caught the ball today but the redzone play calling needs to improve. Don't get so damn cute. Throw the ****ing ball into the end zone or pound it with morris

Nominated for post of the year. I've been screaming this for 5 weeks now.

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 11:26 AM ----------

That's not a Kyle play, that's a Mike play. Elway used to run it. I'm pretty sure he caught a pass against us in the Super Bowl

Their head coach was Dan Reeves. I belive Shanahan was either in SF or Oakland at the time of that SB.

[darrelgreenie]

My biggest issue is that the offense is not evolving at all. It's stuck on the wishbone, option run, play action to the WR over the middle stuff. Those plays have been effective and should certainly be a part of the play book. However, we're just missing so many other things right now......

Where's the 3 and 5 step drop game? Everything seems to be in shotgun/pistol right now.

Where's the bootleg game? Isn't RGIII born to do that stuff?

I guess Hankerson is incapable of running the red zone fade pattern? Are we even going to TRY and use his size in the red zone?

Where's the spread formation? Lining up in that wishbone thing completely bottles up our offense. All the players get bunched up in the middle of the field.

Where's our perimeter passing game? Can we at least TRY to establish a passing game outside the numbers?

Can I assume that RB Screen Passes have been completely ripped out of the playbook? Have we even tried to run one after Helu left?

Again, as I said earlier, my biggest beef right now is that there is no evolution to our offense. This wishbone stuff is completely unsustainable. It's a valuable piece of a larger puzzle but it can't be the base offense to build around.

I'm with you bro....

In a sense I too am worried about how reliant we've been on Griffin's running; not because of injury but because dimishing returns.

It seems everything we do is linked to some 'action' and often from a pistol or zone-read look.

In the end I feel like we're needlessly showing a lot.

We're showing so much pistol/spread that I think we should start mixing in regular Denver/Texans WCO offense to give teams less tape of the Baylor stuff and to take advantage of defenses keying in on it.

Imo Griffin and Cam are similar prospects but I think Griffin can throw and progression read at least as well as Cam last year (if not better).

And Cam did most of damage in his first 2 games slinging it around in the base offense.

But it seems the gameplan is being funnelled through Griffin's running ability, which of course makes sense.

But, like Cam I think its better in small doses.

I can't shake the feeling while the current offense is effective its just the tip of the iceberg.

Its like Griffin-Baylor-Kyle-Mike version 1.0 w/ 2.0 coming (hopefully) soon.

I'm hoping the next step is more spread 3-4 WR w/ drop back passing.

I would like to see more rhythm drop back passing where Griffin gets to take a drop and go through his progressions and make his decision/throw; eventually this is where Griffin will make his hay.

Force the defense to expand to cover 3-4 WRs and then hit them with the zone-read running game and force the defense to declare how their gonna defend our outside speed in the passing game and contain the zone-read at the same time.

Imo that would be the next evolution in the Baylor attack.

But, maybe these are week 4 or later in the season issues. *shrugs*

[JoeSkins]

Odd QB throwback on 3rd and 4 when you've been moving the ball last game, student body right on 4th down this game...I think the Redskins are ready to compete for the CT Class LL Championship.

[RandyHolt]

Where are the bootlegs?

We need to get RG3 throwing on the run more.

+1

Why not roll or move the pocket? I can't remember the exact terminology nor how difficult it is to do, but get him out of the pocket one way or another, on days rush 4 is crushing our 5 blockers.

And for the love of the game, give RG3 a pass option, when we decide to run him wide on a 4th and G on the 2. An isolation play, something. He is a throwing QB.

The wheels are coming off the bus, and we dont even know who is driving. Its it Mike, or Kyle, or 50/50, or?

Bingo.

Despite finally having size at WR, I feel like we will go the entire year without even trying a simple endzone fade,

[Ynot]

We do not stretch the defense enough. Did you see how many times Luck threw the ball deep! Did you see the one time he threw it to Hankerson if it was just over thrown by inches.... You have to give it a try.

All the times with the skinny post and almost getting our receivers killed yesterday... they were jumping that route. Where was the pump fake and then turn it up field for the deep one?

Next our Defense is horrible, yes we held them to 21 points but we gave up two drives of 90+ yards! No sacks in two days. Like I have said our front 3 are Okay, nothing spectacular about it... You see the last two weeks we have given up sacks in the fourth but we are not getting any. Did you see Pittsburgh turn it up against New York with just 4 rushing.... we have 3 run stoppers none are athletic or pass rushers. No push up the middle.

3 of the 4 sacks we gave up came from pressue up the middle and RGIII trying to shift and then ends getting them....

We need a Mean Nose tackle and at least One pass rusher of the three....... Kerrigan should be moved around more.... since we do not have Orakpo....

To me Haslett has to go... Even if he does not have the talent you scheme it better. i would hire the D coordinator from Chicago or Houston right after the season!!!

[JoeSkins]

And for the love of the game, give RG3 a pass option, when we decide to run him wide on a 4th and G on the 2. An isolation play, something. He is a throwing QB.

Despite finally having size at WR, I feel like we will go the entire year without even trying a simple endzone fade,

I'd love to see a fade, a rollout with multiple levels like the Steelers, high/low route combo, anything. Student body right was hard to watch.

[Warhead36]

It drives me crazy that we're using RG3 like he's Pat White or Tim Tebow.

Guy is a GREAT passer. Let him use that arm. If he makes mistakes he makes mistakes but that's what your rookie year is for. Only chance we ever have of contending is if RG3 develops into an elite passing QB.

[Psychedelic]

I would love to see RGIII run a pro style offense for an entire game without the pistol, triple option and the other college sets.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

He runs a pretty effective (at times) offense between the 20's, but once inside the red zone we struggle. The 4 WR formation with RG3 stetch running to the short side of the field from the one yard line made no sense. Roll him out, pass option or have Morris up the middle. It almost seems that he does not want a vanilla type touchdown and wants it to be something new.

Yesterday was a real head scratcher.

[armada58]

I'm with you bro....

I thought we saw the type of evolution you and I know we need during the Tampa game. That game put Griffin in a lot of basic WCO situations and only mixed in the Baylor/Option/Wishbone stuff to keep Tampa honest. It worked great and I thought we would see more of it. However, that's the last game we saw what we thought this offense was going to evolve to. Since then we've seen more of the Baylor stuff and less of the WCO. I think it's taking us in the wrong direction. If for no other reason than the Baylor/Wishbone stuff is truly unsustainable. It can't be the foundation of our offense. Its too easy to defend when you see it consistently (and Tyler Polumbus is getting blown up every play). It also bunches the entire offense into a small area of the field. We won't be able to generate consistent offense when all 11 players on offense are bottled up inside the hash marks.

Another thing...... we don't need to do anything tricky to be effective running the ball. The Butler has shown that he can be very effective just simply running out of the single back set. He reads the ZBS great and is good at hitting the holes that are there. Not only that, our offensive line is actually pretty good at blocking for the run.

I just don't see the Baylor/Wishbone stuff with RGIII in the pistol and Darrell Young, Alfred Morris, Josh Morgan all bunched up in the backfield being truly effective long term as a base offense. Were using it WAY too much.

[Ynot]

I thought we saw the type of evolution you and I know we need during the Tampa game. That game put Griffin in a lot of basic WCO situations and only mixed in the Baylor/Option/Wishbone stuff to keep Tampa honest. It worked great and I thought we would see more of it. However, that's the last game we saw what we thought this offense was going to evolve to. Since then we've seen more of the Baylor stuff and less of the WCO. I think it's taking us in the wrong direction. If for no other reason than the Baylor/Wishbone stuff is truly unsustainable. It can't be the foundation of our offense. Its too easy to defend when you see it consistently (and Tyler Polumbus is getting blown up every play). It also bunches the entire offense into a small area of the field. We won't be able to generate consistent offense when all 11 players on offense are bottled up inside the hash marks.

Another thing...... we don't need to do anything tricky to be effective running the ball. The Butler has shown that he can be very effective just simply running out of the single back set. He reads the ZBS great and is good at hitting the holes that are there. Not only that, our offensive line is actually pretty good at blocking for the run.

I just don't see the Baylor/Wishbone stuff with RGIII in the pistol and Darrell Young, Alfred Morris, Josh Morgan all bunched up in the backfield being truly effective long term as a base offense. Were using it WAY too much.

agreed, also in the baylor offense though they would run a fast past offense no huddle and they always had people running deep and sometimes would run 3 deep at the same time! Where is our deep game.... Safeties have to be responsible for the pitch and dive yet our deep game is just not there....

Agreed were are the regualr pass plays. The deep and short outs... We will throw a short out every now and then but where is the deep 15 to 20 out pattern..

Where are the fades in the endzone like Cam through that beat Wilson once and got a Flag a second time from 20 years or more out....

[RandyHolt]

Having the WR deep in the wishbone, like a safety in the kneel down play, is a bit mind boggling.

I am still miffed at seeing the pitch play to Briscoe.

Yet in the red zone, we don't even call a pass play into the end zone. Briscoe may easily be our best red zone threat; have him run across the back of the endzone, and let him go up and get one. Amazingly, I would almost rather see him run wide over banks on 3rd and G from the 5.

I for one hated the opening pass to Aldrick Robinson. He is a burner, coming off a concussion. We throw him right into that safety. That was a dumb play call and I for one accept why he may have gator armed it.

Has it already been determined, that Kyle is actually calling all the plays, and have full access to the playbook? Or is dad hand picking 10 red zone plays every week, and saying, use these.

It's a mess and now we cant even replace the OC, and we dont even know if he is a problem. Lord knows Mike doesn't see him as a problem, even if he is.

[darrelgreenie]

I thought we saw the type of evolution you and I know we need during the Tampa game. That game put Griffin in a lot of basic WCO situations and only mixed in the Baylor/Option/Wishbone stuff to keep Tampa honest. It worked great and I thought we would see more of it. However, that's the last game we saw what we thought this offense was going to evolve to. Since then we've seen more of the Baylor stuff and less of the WCO. I think it's taking us in the wrong direction. If for no other reason than the Baylor/Wishbone stuff is truly unsustainable. It can't be the foundation of our offense. Its too easy to defend when you see it consistently (and Tyler Polumbus is getting blown up every play). It also bunches the entire offense into a small area of the field. We won't be able to generate consistent offense when all 11 players on offense are bottled up inside the hash marks.

Another thing...... we don't need to do anything tricky to be effective running the ball. The Butler has shown that he can be very effective just simply running out of the single back set. He reads the ZBS great and is good at hitting the holes that are there. Not only that, our offensive line is actually pretty good at blocking for the run.

I just don't see the Baylor/Wishbone stuff with RGIII in the pistol and Darrell Young, Alfred Morris, Josh Morgan all bunched up in the backfield being truly effective long term as a base offense. Were using it WAY too much.

I don't have a problem with the Pistol as a concept. I think we do need Griffin and the read options to set the table to to run the ball effectively because I don't think the OL and Morris are good enough on their own yet.

However; I think we should run more of Baylor's offense which actually was 'Air Raid' Spread formation (passing) + read option as opposed to what we run now which is Pistol read option.

I think the evolution of this offense is to run more of the offense from spread shotgun formations.

Evolve to this:

X...........................T..G..C..G..T...............................X

..............X..................................................X

.......................................QB..RB...................................

As opposed to this:

X................TE..T..G..C..G..T.....................X

.....................................................................

.................................QB....WB

..................................TB

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 01:24 PM ----------

---------- Post added November-5th-2012 at 01:25 PM ----------

Same formation here:

[MrJL]

Their head coach was Dan Reeves. I belive Shanahan was either in SF or Oakland at the time of that SB.

Shanny was the OC for Denver till 87. He became head coach of the LA Raiders the next year

[mojo]

Worst called by Kyle that I can remember. Thr 4th down goal line play was horrid. No option to pass, just a run to the short side of the field. And then giving up on the run and going to drop back game which brought on all the sacks. Terrible.

[Cliffmark1]

OP opposite day. The question should be does he keep his job not does he call the plays. Kyle has shown he can't.

[pjfootballer]

Shanny was the OC for Denver till 87. He became head coach of the LA Raiders the next year

I stand corrected. I was sure he was on another staff. Old age is catching up with me. Memory isn't what it used to be, then again, I can't keep track of every player or coaches stops every year.

[grego]

there seems to be 2 extremes (which is often the case with coaches or players and the fans). some say kyle sucks, some say he's great.

what i see is something in between. i do think that kyle has had crap to work with (same with haslett, imo). he finally has a QB, but our one good WR hasnt played since about 10 minutes into the season. morris is good. but our QB has no one to throw to.

that said, i think its still fair to say hes called some bad games. in fact, i think its pretty obvious at this point that hes had some bad games. he's also had some good games- games where the opposition was clearly confused (they have said as much) by what he's called.

as far as what he could be with actual NFL caliber WR's, i think he would clearly have better results. i'm still not confident that he wont have his bad games, and call games and plays that make you wonder what the hell hes doing, but maybe 'good kyle' is enough to put up with 'bad kyle'.

[FrFan]

It seems that someone is getting inspired by Kyle !

Pete Carroll draws inspiration from RG3, Redskins

"Carroll decided to take a look at the success the Washington Redskins and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan were having with fellow rookie quarterback Robert Griffin III at the helm. Carroll went to school on how the Redskins were using Griffin and how they were relying heavily on the read-zone option offense that Griffin ran while at Baylor."

[darrelgreenie]

^^Pete Carroll is a smart coach.

[Enter Apotheosis]

there seems to be 2 extremes (which is often the case with coaches or players and the fans). some say kyle sucks, some say he's great.

what i see is something in between. i do think that kyle has had crap to work with (same with haslett, imo). he finally has a QB, but our one good WR hasnt played since about 10 minutes into the season. morris is good. but our QB has no one to throw to.

that said, i think its still fair to say hes called some bad games. in fact, i think its pretty obvious at this point that hes had some bad games. he's also had some good games- games where the opposition was clearly confused (they have said as much) by what he's called.

as far as what he could be with actual NFL caliber WR's, i think he would clearly have better results. i'm still not confident that he wont have his bad games, and call games and plays that make you wonder what the hell hes doing, but maybe 'good kyle' is enough to put up with 'bad kyle'.

Kyle, like all NFL playcallers, calls a bad play or two in just about every game. However, when I pull up game rewind and look at the coaches tape on the kinds of games that inspire these threads I see a lot of plays that should be working that are not because of fundamental errors by the players.

Penalties, drops, poor blocking, overthrows, and Griffin still needing to mature in some areas routinely kill otherwise successful drives. Honestly, we put up about as much offense in the first three quarters as the Panthers did in the entire game... but they got all the points because we gave up big plays and didn't execute when we most needed to.

To dumb it down, Bad Kyle doesn't seem so bad to me and Good Kyle is a reflection of Good Execution on a lot of the same playcalls that Bad Kyle makes.

[darrelgreenie]

I think its nearly impossible/pointless to pick out a couple of play calls and say these plays didn't work therefore....X

When I look at playcalling I look at tendencies, situations and personnel. For example: If we use a power formation and run the ball right without misdirection on 3rd and less then 1 I think its a bad decision because our OL isn't built for power blocking and the right side of our line is the weakest side.