KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My threads get right to the point! Stop Jedi mind reading me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Wasn't White a late bloomer too? I remember him dropping balls repeatedly from Vick then taking off when Ryan got there. Of course, that also speaks to Vick and his inaccuracy too but just a thought. Maybe we have a Roddy White type breakout player on the roster already. One can hope. Hankerson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well, let's be fair here, too. Those two guys are absolutely phenomenal. There is no way around it. That said, in Ryan's 2010 Pro Bowl campaign, he only had White. Jones wasn't in the NFL yet. The Falcons went 13-3. Now, White had a fantastic year, with 115 grabs for 1389 yards, but their second best receiver was Michael Jenkins.Roddy has been PHENOMENAL for the Falcons and in particular, Matt Ryan. That is extremely true. And the guy would be talented every where. If Griffin had him they'd be an extremely tough combo to stop. I agree there, too Not taking anything away from Ice at all. He's a beast. Just saying if III had those weapons it would be amazing. Especially with their athleticism and their ability to go up and get the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 One thing I'd like to see is Griffin's TD passes go up a bit. I'd like to see 2 TD passes for every 1 he runs in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 One thing I'd like to see is Griffin's TD passes go up a bit. I'd like to see 2 TD passes for every 1 he runs in. They're coming PJ. That QB draw in the redzone has teams on their heals. When they start bringing an extra man in the box you'll see an open guy. I see Fred Davis becoming that go to guy in the end zone. They are starting to build some chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well for Gawds sake Hap get some more coffee then! Win or lose this ought to be an interesting game, showcasing the two different "types" of QB these days. Ryan is the archetypal pocket passer, a well tuned instrument played by a coaching staff that knows his range extremely well, Griffin has more of a freeform jazz kinda game going. I think our best chance lies w/ the D front disrupting his game, getting in his face, getting hands up, etc, otherwise there will need to be a firetruck parked on the sidelines for our secondary. With Griffin you really don't know what you'll get but he sure skews opposing gameplans already. I can't recall ever feeling that even if we lose it will be fun to watch the Skins play, we are down the rabbit hole here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 They're coming PJ. That QB draw in the redzone has teams on their heals. When they start bringing an extra man in the box you'll see an open guy. I see Fred Davis becoming that go to guy in the end zone. They are starting to build some chemistry. I can see that happening. Right now teams are leaving the middle of the field open at the GL so RG3 knows he can easily run it in everytime he sees that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 They're coming PJ. That QB draw in the redzone has teams on their heals. When they start bringing an extra man in the box you'll see an open guy. I see Fred Davis becoming that go to guy in the end zone. They are starting to build some chemistry. Yeah, on the 2 minute drive, they started blitzing Ronde Barber and Fred was wide open. I'm in the camp of "stay with it until they stop it" but I don't want him to get a repitation for being a "running" QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Forget the deceptive QB stats. Because of his legs, Robert is the much better QB. But Ryan has a much better supporting cast: offense , defense and special teams. Atlanta is the better team, so the Skins must beat the odds to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Forget the deceptive QB stats. Because of his legs, Robert is the much better QB. But Ryan has a much better supporting cast: offense , defense and special teams.Atlanta is the better team, so the Skins must beat the odds to win. I noted that in the OP, OF. I'm sorry. I noted that in the second post. But, to play devil's advocate: How do we know he has a better supporting cast and it's not a product of Ryan's skill elevating the entire team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I noted that in the OP, OF.I'm sorry. I noted that in the second post. But, to play devil's advocate: How do we know he has a better supporting cast and it's not a product of Ryan's skill elevating the entire team? Among other reasons, we know that because of the mountain of evidence gathered over the years that QBs who move to different teams have far different performances. Steve Young is just one example but he's a good one because he moved from the worst team to the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Nice KDawg up thread write. My words must still be in the same order confusion as Page 1. Good breakdown, though. So excited to see this matchup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Among other reasons, we know that because of the mountain of evidence gathered over the years that QBs who move to different teams have far different performances. Steve Young is just one example but he's a good one because he moved from the worst team to the best. Matt Ryan has never changed teams. So there is no evidence that he is or is not the reason for the Falcons supporting cast being solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think this match-up is more a contrast of offenses then a contrast of QB styles i.e. pocket passer vs Griffin. Griffin is both a pocket passer and scrambler/playmaker/runner (whatever) this offenses features Griffin+Almo through the running game the Falcons feature Ryan+Roddy+Julio through the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Matt Ryan is a QB. The evidence of other QBs who moved logically applies to all QBs. How so? I don't see the relevence. Perhaps I'm not smart enough to see it, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Matt Ryan has never changed teams. So there is no evidence that he is or is not the reason for the Falcons supporting cast being solid.Matt Ryan is a QB. The evidence of other QBs who moved logically applies to all QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Roddy White was a 1,000+ yard, 6 TD WR the season prior to Matt Ryan arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Roddy White was a 1,000+ yard, 6 TD WR the season prior to Matt Ryan arrival. Which is one player. One player does not make a team. To say someone has a better supporting cast means that there has to be solid proof of that. And for the record, I said RG3 was a pocket mover not a runner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ryan's my main fantasy QB. I want RGIII to win. I hate FF at times. Can we have a 59 56 Redskins win please, with all Atlanta's scores coming through the air? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 How so? I don't see the relevence. Perhaps I'm not smart enough to see it, however. Steve Young was a QB whose numbers reflected a huge difference in performance after being traded. The huge performance difference can only be explained by differences in his support systems. The same is true for other QBs who made moves both up and down. So, QB PLUS support system = performance. Since Ryan is a QB that formula applies to him as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Steve Young was a QB whose numbers reflected a huge difference in performance after being traded. The huge performance difference can only be explained by differences in his support systems. The same is true for other QBs who made moves both up and down. So, QB PLUS support system = performance. Since Ryan is a QB that formula applies to him as well.. Wouldn't that also mean that RG3 has a sound support system as we have the top scoring offense in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I don't think we can take anything away from Ryan because of his supporting cast. For a QB to succeed, it takes talent, work ethic, system, and supporting cast. Both RG3 and Matt Ryan have all of these. While you can argue Ryan has the better supporting cast, it can also be argued that RG3 is in a better system to produce big numbers. They both are great talents. Can't wait to see the game Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Which is one player. One player does not make a team. To say someone has a better supporting cast means that there has to be solid proof of that. Regardless of your opinions on supporting cast, I was posting a fact not making a statement. Roddy White was a 1,000+ yard, 6 TD WR the season prior to Matt Ryan arrival. I don't care to be dragged into a patently obvious difference in supporting cast that is why I didn't make a statement like: being that an elite WR can have a huge impact on a team's passing as evidenced by TO effect on McNabb in Philly or Randy Moss (in his prime) effect on every QB that he played with. Roddy White as an elite WR has a similar if not equal benefit to Matt Ryan. And for the record, I said RG3 was a pocket mover not a runner. Why so salty today 'for the record' and all of ?Anyways I wasn't responding to your statement directly or I would have quoted it and further I chose the "(whatever)" to reflect anyones view of Griffin's non-pocket passing attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Wouldn't that also mean that RG3 has a sound support system as we have the top scoring offense in the NFL?A few problems with your statement: 1) the top scoring offense is a poor stat, especially after just four games; 2) the definition of "sound" is vague; 3) the definition of support system -- in my mind the support system is offense, defense and special teams since all can contribute to some degree to those QB stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Why so salty today 'for the record' and all of ? Anyways I wasn't responding to your statement directly or I would have quoted it and further I chose the "(whatever)" to reflect anyones view of Griffin's non-pocket passing attributes. No saltiness. It's been well established that I believe that RG3 can be a pocket passer, but due to our OL being shoddy at times, sometimes that pocket is somewhere other than where it generally is. Hence the term, "pocket mover". He moves the pocket very well. He's not a run first pass second guy. If it's a pass play he passes unless all of his reads are covered. ---------- Post added October-4th-2012 at 11:49 AM ---------- A few problems with your statement: 1) the top scoring offense is a poor stat, especially after just four games; 2) the definition of "sound" is vague; 3) the definition of support system -- in my mind the support system is offense, defense and special teams since all can contribute to some degree to those QB stats. Then how do you come to the conclusion that RG3 is the better QB? (Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing with that diagnosis. Just trying to understand where you're coming from.) ---------- Post added October-4th-2012 at 11:52 AM ---------- A few problems with your statement: 1) the top scoring offense is a poor stat, especially after just four games; 2) the definition of "sound" is vague; 3) the definition of support system -- in my mind the support system is offense, defense and special teams since all can contribute to some degree to those QB stats. Then how do you come to the conclusion that RG3 is the better QB? (Keep in mind, I'm not disagreeing with that diagnosis. Just trying to understand where you're coming from.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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