Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[chipwhich]

I find all this discussion about a law fatiguing. All any of us can do is sit back it watch it fail, sputter along, or roar to life. It's disingenuous to say any of us know how it will pan out. The first hurdle is getting young people to sign up. If they don't, this law is a non-starter.

 

Then don't discuss.  You sound like my child trying to understand why I tell them to go to bed early so they can be ready for school in the morning.

The facts are there, but the child doesn't understand why their parent is correct.  They think it's just a stupid rule with no consideration.

 

It's not disingenuous.  It's simple evaluation and experience which the kids don't understand because they haven't experienced it.

[mikered30]

What is the fine for not signing up for healthcare?  From reading on here some suggest that it maybe a better idea for young healthy people not to pay into the system and just eat the fine.

[Elessar78]

Then don't discuss.  You sound like my child trying to understand why I tell them to go to bed early so they can be ready for school in the morning.

The facts are there, but the child doesn't understand why their parent is correct.  They think it's just a stupid rule with no consideration.

 

It's not disingenuous.  It's simple evaluation and experience which the kids don't understand because they haven't experienced it.

Yep, you're clearly the grownups here. Name calling—VERY grown up. Of COURSE! You're the only one that get's it. How could I have missed that. 

 

As I've said before and gotten no response: pass the cost increase to your customer. If they won't bear it, then evolve or die. Isn't that the way of free market? 

 

The challenge was out there. Propose something better. Nada. Zilch. Socialism. Free Market. Name calling. 8 years to come up with even a counter proposal. Nothing. 

[chipwhich]

Yep, you're clearly the grownups here. Name calling—VERY grown up. Of COURSE! You're the only one that get's it. How could I have missed that. 

 

As I've said before and gotten no response: pass the cost increase to your customer. If they won't bear it, then evolve or die. Isn't that the way of free market? 

 

The challenge was out there. Propose something better. Nada. Zilch. Socialism. Free Market. Name calling. 8 years to come up with even a counter proposal. Nothing. 

 

I have never mentioned socialism, free market, or "name calling".  8 years?   Really health care doesn't fit into YOUR window.  Please.

 

If you have a solution that is a legitimate solution, let us know.  If your solution is, I propose anything let us know that too.  

[ABQCOWBOY]

Because I don't think it's a terrible law.

 

96% of American businesses have fewer than 50 employees—so they're not affected by ACA. 

 

90% of the companies of the remaining 4% of companies ALREADY offer health insurance. Sure they may face higher premiums, but rising premiums have been a mainstay for these companies already. 

 

So, you're left with 3% of American companies who are in that gray area where they are, possibly, negatively impacted. 

 

This is so much BS, I don't even know where to start.  If this is what you want to believe, there is probably nothing I can do to change your mind but just so you know, I know this is not the truth.  I am one of those 96% you are talking about and I completely understand where this law is driving business. 

 

Premiums and general cost associated with healthcare have already increased significantly and this is just the beginning.  We all know what's coming in 2015.  I know what you are saying here is not true but to each his own.

[Hersh]

I have never mentioned socialism, free market, or "name calling".  8 years?   Really health care doesn't fit into YOUR window.  Please.

 

If you have a solution that is a legitimate solution, let us know.  If your solution is, I propose anything let us know that too.  

 

One should be able to buy insurance across state lines. One of the problems in NC is a lack of competition. More competition would drive down the cost of insurance plans. Raise the penalty for not having insurance. Have really inexpensive basic catastrophic insurance plans.

 

It's really laughable though to read all you guys complain about the ACA as if it does nothing good. As if health insurance was going up every single year long before the POTUS was even a Senator.

 

Furthermore, do you guys know the number one reason people go broke?? Medical expenses. Do you know what happens when people go broke? The end up on food stamps and possibly welfare. All that costs tax payers more money.

 

You're right though. Let's scrap the ACA and go back to the way things were. Things were great before the worst POTUS ever destroyed it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Hersh

[Hersh]

The GOP hasn't been screaming for this for a week.  The Democrats who are in need of political cover are the ones who have been screaming loudest.  Mary Landrieu, one of the loudest supporters of Obamacare is introducing a bill today that would basically kill Obamacare by allowing citizens to keep their Healthcare if they liked it.  It would basically force insurance companies to go back and allow citizens to get what they originally had as coverages if they wanted them and she's far from alone.   There are probably a good 15 other Dems who are right there with her and several others coming aboard.

 

The push on this is much heavier on the Dem side, IMO.   The GOP just wants to kill the entire law. 

 

This is simply false. It's a republican in the house that proposed the first bill allowing people to keep their own plans. I guess the Democrats made him do it.

[skinsmarydu]

My company insurance didn't meet the standards, the adjusted them don't you know to add stuff like the free birth control.  It meets the standards now, but this all happened last year in preparation for the law.  Rates went up too.

As I've settled down,(because we can't do much else till the effing website gets fixed),and am just trying to be more informed, I'm more curious about your situation than most. And once again, not trying to be contrary, just want a little info.

*And now that I think about the question I'm going to ask, it seems a little silly, as I would hope you IT people are smarter/more advanced thinkers. Bear with me.*

Have any of your female employees encountered an unexpected pregnancy, when birth control was an option not used?

I ask this because, as a restaurant worker, all of the insurance I've purchased over the years always covered family planning and/or birth control. (Not free, just discounted.) The reasons are obvious, being out of work makes for short-handed shifts, and guests don't like to be kept waiting. (Also, with the Family Leave Act, that employee would need to be replaced temporarily for delivery & recovery, and the replacement would see their shifts fade when the original employee comes back to work.)

Have you ever encountered this issue? I realize in some cases, the person at the "desk next door" can cover...but what about when it's an industry that relies on the "bodies" to physically work?

Edited November 16, 2013 by skinsmarydu

[Larry]

Then don't discuss.  You sound like my child trying to understand why I tell them to go to bed early so they can be ready for school in the morning.

The facts are there, but the child doesn't understand why their parent is correct.  They think it's just a stupid rule with no consideration.

 

It's not disingenuous.  It's simple evaluation and experience which the kids don't understand because they haven't experienced it.

 

Why? 

[twa]

One should be able to buy insurance across state lines. One of the problems in NC is a lack of competition. More competition would drive down the cost of insurance plans. Raise the penalty for not having insurance. Have really inexpensive basic catastrophic insurance plans.

 

It's really laughable though to read all you guys complain about the ACA as if it does nothing good. As if health insurance was going up every single year long before the POTUS was even a Senator.

 

Furthermore, do you guys know the number one reason people go broke?? Medical expenses. Do you know what happens when people go broke? The end up on food stamps and possibly welfare. All that costs tax payers more money.

 

You're right though. Let's scrap the ACA and go back to the way things were. Things were great before the worst POTUS ever destroyed it.

 

I agree competition is good, but under ACA many areas only have two carriers and it is unlikely to change

real competition would be more flexibility in offerings

 

people are going to continue to go broke from medical expenses under ACA....it has not really changed the dynamics behind that.

 

ACA does something good for me,but it is going to hurt others.....of course some of you had it coming 

[skinsmarydu]

ACA does something good for me,but it is going to hurt others.....of course some of you had it coming 

Glad you're willing to admit it...I know it took a lot for you to do so.

Not joking or being a *****...just glad you find something positive.

[chipwhich]

As I've settled down,(because we can't do much else till the effing website gets fixed),and am just trying to be more informed, I'm more curious about your situation than most. And once again, not trying to be contrary, just want a little info.

*And now that I think about the question I'm going to ask, it seems a little silly, as I would hope you IT people are smarter/more advanced thinkers. Bear with me.*

Have any of your female employees encountered an unexpected pregnancy, when birth control was an option not used?

I ask this because, as a restaurant worker, all of the insurance I've purchased over the years always covered family planning and/or birth control. (Not free, just discounted.) The reasons are obvious, being out of work makes for short-handed shifts, and guests don't like to be kept waiting. (Also, with the Family Leave Act, that employee would need to be replaced temporarily for delivery & recovery, and the replacement would see their shifts fade when the original employee comes back to work.)

Have you ever encountered this issue? I realize in some cases, the person at the "desk next door" can cover...but what about when it's an industry that relies on the "bodies" to physically work?

 

I hope you get a good plan in the ACA website.  If you can take anything from any of my posts it's the fact that I don't like High Deductible insurance policies, my employees don't like high deductible insurance policies, and you wont like high deductible insurance policies.  My friends who have been converted to high deductible policies suddenly can't afford their insurance.  As with many americans, they are living paycheck to paycheck.  I assume a large portion of those who will get the ACA are living paycheck to paycheck.  Now I know the ACA isn't responsible for high deductible plans, but they are going to further drive their popularity.  This is how insurance companies are staying competitive.  The plan you currently have now which you love, will most likely be unaffordable in the exchange.  The cost effective ones will be high deductible.  That little trip to the doc, where you paid a copay and a smile will now cost you 100% out of pocket until you meet the deductible.  You wont like it, and you will find it's unaffordable, especially if you are on prescription medications.  Do you have $5000?  $10000 in hand to spend at the doctor next year on top of your premiums?  I hope so.

 

I haven't had unexpected pregnancies in my company that I know of but I would guess my employee profile wouldn't lend itself statistically to those situations.

Yep, you're clearly the grownups here. Name calling—VERY grown up. Of COURSE! You're the only one that get's it. How could I have missed that. 

 

As I've said before and gotten no response: pass the cost increase to your customer. If they won't bear it, then evolve or die. Isn't that the way of free market? 

 

The challenge was out there. Propose something better. Nada. Zilch. Socialism. Free Market. Name calling. 8 years to come up with even a counter proposal. Nothing. 

 

Wasn't name calling.

The customer is YOU!!!

 

Is that the free market you want?  It's an inclusive you as in all Americans buying health care will now pay.  So evolve or die, you referring to American people?  They either afford the health care or die?

[chipwhich]

I agree competition is good, but under ACA many areas only have two carriers and it is unlikely to change

real competition would be more flexibility in offerings

 

I think the competition expectations are odd.

 

Doctors aren't going to negotiate prices down any further.  So to cut costs will mean cutting services.  Cutting services means crappy support to the buyer.  It's a self licking ice cream cone of fail as buyers will move to higher cost coverage to fulfill their needs.

[twa]

I think the competition expectations are odd.

 

Doctors aren't going to negotiate prices down any further.  So to cut costs will mean cutting services.  Cutting services means crappy support to the buyer.  It's a self licking ice cream cone of fail as buyers will move to higher cost coverage to fulfill their needs.

 

we are also going to see a more tiered network system,with many providers beyond your coverage....unless you can pay 

 

the existing HMO,PPO,medicaid tiers are nothing compared to what is coming

 

 

Skinsmary....I've said all along it will help me, I strongly doubt the benefit is worth the costs to the country.

my wife is a medical moneypit 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is simply false. It's a republican in the house that proposed the first bill allowing people to keep their own plans. I guess the Democrats made him do it.

 

No, it's not wrong.  Landriue did introduce that bill prior to the one introduced and voted on yesterday.

 

http://www.landrieu.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=4047

 

The President, himself, basically tried to force something similar through, without a vote, on Wed.   It's easy to say things like Democrats must have made them do it and actually, in this case that statement is true.   Democrats did make them do it.  They passed this trainwreck of a law with no GOP support, they put everybody in a position where they had no choice but to fight it, they made sure that, as Pelosi stated earlier, that we would only know what it was after we passed it, and now here we are. 

 

So yeah, I think your earlier statement is correct.  The Democratic Party did for the GOP on this.

[Bliz]

If this was a Republican mess, there would be 100 times the activity in this thread on this board......

All I hear is crickets. See no evil. Speak no evil. Hear no evil. Post no evil.

For me, I don't really know what to say about it. I still adamantly believe in the importance of curbing the abuses in the individual market. The law hit some of the worst ones, and that was an extremely important bit of consumer protection.

But I just couldn't be more disappointed in how badly the administration has ****ed this all up. They have done more to undermine the law than the pubs ever could have.

It gets pretty tough to dismiss the mounting evidence that Obama is incompetent

Edited November 16, 2013 by Bliz

[daveakl]

Is it possible we will look back 30 years from now and wonder how someone so politically young was able to rise so fast just because they were a good speaker?

[skinsmarydu]

Skinsmary....I've said all along it will help me, I strongly doubt the benefit is worth the costs to the country.

my wife is a medical moneypit

So is my husband, who is the primary policy holder, I'm just the wife who earns/uses almost nothing compared to him. I take Losartin, once a day.

That's my point, I think, LOL. The load gets spread more evenly. Don't know that I'm right, just asking questions.

[skinsmarydu]

It gets pretty tough to dismiss the mounting evidence that Obama is incompetent

We're in one of those crazy states that didn't expand Medicaid. New governor to be voted on next year...and there's a Carter on the list(grandson).

[Duckus]

Is it possible we will look back 30 years from now and wonder how someone so politically young was able to rise so fast just because they were a good speaker?

What? I am not sure what this is thread has to do with Reagan.

While a fun talking point - look back in history. Lot of political experience is strangely sort of rare for many of our former Presidents.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Duckus

[Duckus]

Double post.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Duckus

[Bliz]

We're in one of those crazy states that didn't expand Medicaid. New governor to be voted on next year...and there's a Carter on the list(grandson).

Our gov is awful. Not expanding Medicaid was exceedingly stupid and contrary to what should be conservative ideals, in the name of poking a finger in obamas eye.

But I'm not convinced that Jason is qualified to be gov, or capable of winning

[daveakl]

What? I am not sure what this is thread has to do with Reagan.

While a fun talking point - look back in history. Lot of political experience is strangely sort of rare for many of our former Presidents.

Less time to be on record one way or the other? Reagan was a puppet controlled by his reptilian overlords. Not sure you can count him.

[twa]

Our gov is awful. Not expanding Medicaid was exceedingly stupid and contrary to what should be conservative ideals, in the name of poking a finger in obamas eye.

But I'm not convinced that Jason is qualified to be gov, or capable of winning

as to expanding Medicaid, would block grants to states be more efficient?

they would certainly be more acceptable here

[twa]

Should I lie about smoking on the ACA application? 

 

http://www.althouse.blogspot.com/2013/11/whats-happening-with-charging-smokers.html

 

is enforcement going to be like for marijuana and immigration offenses....or delayed like the employer mandate(and the personal probably)

 

must be nice to choose what laws are enforced

 

add

 the comments in the link are fun

 

Perhaps all one has to do is claim that they are a pathological liar, claim it is a per-existing mental health issue, and ta-dah!, coverage is guaranteed.

Edited November 17, 2013 by twa