SOW| Niles Paul Following in Shannon Sharpe's Footsteps May Not Be as Crazy as it Sounds

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The 4 TE statement really does seem to make Cooley a little safer but the cap is still an issue IMO. I will let you guys know what I see tomorrow at OTA's perhaps Cooley looks great and I'm wrong but I'll see it with my own eyes before I decide 100%

They have two other TEs at OTAs (at least)...at least I think they do lol...but I haven't heard anything about Shanahan or any of the coaches praising them or talking about their potential.

Yes. Brandon Banks.

Um...he's not a TE lol...

---------- Post added May-30th-2012 at 12:31 PM ----------

Shanahan tends to believe in certain guys ala Grossman and Beck, but I do see the physical tools in Paul...If he can complement Davis in any way, that would be a huge plus

I think it was Shanahan who suggested Young move from LB to FB, and that turned out great so far...so he might have a knack for seeing potential production for players if put in different positions.

[2cents]

I was looking at the team as a whole, 4 TE means probably not 7-8 receivers.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I was looking at the team as a whole, 4 TE means probably not 7-8 receivers.

Ah, gotcha lol...well, Allen also said they'd be carrying 6 WRs...not sure if they consider PR/KR a separate position, though.

[2cents]

As always, I don't much care since I have no say on who ends up on the team. I'm just glad we have real choices.

[SirClintonPortis]

Until Paul develops some proficiency in doing what a receiver does...he will be the one-trick pony who can block but cannot do "receiving". Right now, Paul is a very athletic blocking TE. Yes, he might develop and become a Shannon Sharpe...but it's going to take a while.

[ZRagone]

This is legitimately the first coherent argument I have heard to keep Chris around :applause:

You hit the nail on the head with Fred especially after thy pic that went around Friday night. But I could argue that Chris is one cut away from missing the season too... That is exactly why I like the grooming of Paul which was the point of this piece not to bash Cooley.

That's true, Chris is one cut away from missing the season.

So is Fred Davis though. Knee injuries don't just hit those who had them before.

However if Chris smokes pot one day he's not going home for a year. Davis is.

I get the salary cap issues, but I think that's something to care greater about if we need to make cap room...which doesn't seem to be the case right now. Best case scenario in my mind would be that Cooley either restructures, or if a fitting restructure can't happen then released and resigned, at a reasonable rate that could keep him here for another 2 or 3 years. We keep him for a reasonable rate, we have a solid 1 - 2 punch this year with him and Davis while Paul learns. If Paul comes along like Gangbusters and Cooley is still in good form, then we keep Paul for cheap and Cooley and let Sleepy leave. If Paul's still got some developing to go, then we have Cooley and him competing for the 2nd spot next year. If Paul fails at the transition, then we still have two solid tight ends.

Outside of best case, then I'd take Cooley with a bloat salary and Davis.

Honestly, worst case scenario in my mind is cutting Cooley, going with Davis and then having unproven guys like Paulsen and Paul as our TE's.

Now, my previous post was about the football decisions. However, I do think there are organizational reasons to keep him, reasons that could...if not explained...could be "I love Chris Cooley" type of reasons, but I believe they're still important for good teams.

The reason threads that even hint around about Cooley being cut turn into a cluster-F is because he is a huge fan favorite. He's been the face of the Franchise in many ways for quite some time. He's an excellent ambassador for the team, great with the media, and a solid representative for the team. He's also a guy with clear and unquestionable fandom for the team, that lives and dies by its fans and what it means to be a Redskin, and is brings a mentality and personality similar to that of your "old school players". I think an individual like that is actually beneficial for an organization to have, both to market the team not just to fans but even to players as well. I think its an excellent example for the young guys...of which this team is getting more and more and more of. Finally, it would show that while yes...the NFL is a business...there is some idea of loyalty, some idea that Washington not only isn't a place just to come and get paid but a place that all our young guys can see will take care of their own.

Orakpo. Kerrigan. RGIII. Helu. Hankerson. Trent. Jenkins. And on and on. We have a lot of young guys on this team. A lot of young guys who in 3 to 5 years are going to be having the chance to jump ship to some other team and leave us in the dust if they choose. If Cooley is healthy, he represents a guy who can still play...not someone who, if cut, is unlikely to be picked up again (like Portis) or who just doesn't fit the scheme at all (like Carter)...and is a home grown guy. Yeah, his pay check is large, but I think the team benefits by the young guys seeing the team do right by someone like that.

Granted, this does hinge on two things....Cooley is healthy and Cooley is willing to restructure to a reasonable contract fair to both sides. But if that is the case...I think it benefits the team from a football and organizational stand point to keep Cooley and potentially have him retire here as a Skin after helping the new crop grow.

As to your primary point in the article....

I think Paul does have the tools to be a Shannon Sharpe TYPE, but "Shannon Sharpe" himself? That's a huge question mark that feels almost laughable to seriously think on (however, those kind of things are what May/June for NFL bloggers is made for so not bregruding you that ). I really liked him last year and thought he'd easily stick around in a James Thrash type role but with a bit more tools due to his run blocking. If he can put on the weight and really only lose a little speed he has the potential to be a very good TE. But it's a lot of "potential" there and while potential is great, it's not something I like to gamble on if I don't have to

---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 12:13 AM ----------

We all love Chris. But.........time too move on. Chris has lost that explosion. It looks as though he is running in cement. He may have lost 20lbs. but Niles Paul needs to be given the opportunity.

See, it's stuff like this that gets me. For every "BUT WE LOVE CHRIS" comment you seem to get these type of things too.

Lost explosion based on...? What exactly? Last year when its been clearly established his knee issues were handled horribly due to prohibitions brought on by the lock out? Or two years ago, the last season he played healthy, where he had his 2nd best season in terms of total receptions and tied his mark for most yards in a season (But with a longer average). While his TD's have been down recently that's an issue that hardly was plaguing just Cooley. While his YAC did go down, he still averaged over 5 yards with it and was higher than his lowest total at 4.6 in 2007.

What are you judging the lost explosion based off of?

[flexxskins]

Paul has reportedly put on more weight while maintaining his speed. Still, its a stretch.

What is a stretch? Paul having a career at the TE position nearly as productive as Sharpe's or him making the transition to the TE position successfully at all?

My thing is, we really don't need Paul's career at TE to rival Sharpe's. If Paul could be just as good of a TE as Fred Davis is, then I predict that we are in for one entertaining season.

You said it yourself that Paul gained weight and we already know that the kid is tough as nails. You put those things together with 4.4 speed and WR type hands and sky's the limit IMHO.

[D-Day]

I will give you this very quick couple of lines for keeping Chris on the team.

Davis is one failed drug test from being gone, Paul is an experiment, Logan is not a pass catching threat (Cooley is insurance at TE). Cutting Cooley saves 2 mil on the cap or 4 mil if you spread it out over two seasons, we don't need the money. If we do need money you restructure trent whom has a 10 mil fully guaranteed salary this year, it makes no difference cap wise to push a few mill back into 2014.

[SkinsTillIDie]

If there's one Redskin that can continue to thrive despite a loss of athleticism, it's Chris Cooley

He was never a star tight end due to his physical, elite athletic gifts, a la an Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez. He was always a subpar athlete, but has incredible football instincts and is superb at finding the soft spot in zone coverage, finding a way to get open when the play breaks down, finding a way to get open when the play doesn't break down, running routes, with dependable hands.

Earlier in his career, he was a tackle-breaking machine, and while he hasn't been that guy in several years, he's still easily capable of being a highly productive 2nd tight end.

A guy like Santana Moss, who was a freak athlete, has naturally seen his production and level of play drop as he has lost his athleticism with age and wear and tear.

In a reduced role, Cooley is a fantastic guy to have for a rookie quarterback, especially one who can extend plays. Dependable, reliable tight ends are very often a young quarterback's favorite target -- that's essentially defined Cooley's role as a Redskin. A player who can consistently pick up 7, 8 yards and move the chains. A prototypical "possession receiver."

He's missed one year due to injury. One year. He set a career high in receptions the year before that. It's amazing the fall from grace Cooley's had from a huge section of the fanbase, simply due to one missed year.

Not to mention that he's a fantastic influence in the lockerroom and is truly one of "Shanahan's guys" -- for any head coach, but particularly one that aims to have an authoritarian hold on his team -- this is an underrated element. There's clearly a mutual respect between them.

Nevermind that Niles Paul has never even played a snap at the position before at any level of football, or that Logan Paulsen defines subpar NFL tight end. Chris Cooley has a role to play on this team

[Koolblue13]

If Paul does develop into a solid TE, imagine the options we have with a package on the field including Paul, Davis and Cooley? That is some fast power and could make for some serious mismatches, especially if we can do it fast and keep the same defense on the field.

[chipwhich]

This was already blogged about in a local newspaper.

[Laxpunk2006]

This is evidence that either you rarely, if ever, actually listen to and understand what people with opposing views are saying...or you've just taken your first "Using Strawmen For Fun And Profit" seminar.

Or that that is the reason people have given me directly... Listen man I love Cooley he's I'm fact my favorite Redskin but we have to look at this outside of emotional attachment. In the battles I have taught on this (all of which are not on ES) the response has been because I love him he can't go...

Some casual fans may hold that opinion but the majority of discussion regarding Cooley's retention has been based on football. Those that support him have given reasons why they believe he can continue to be productive on the football field. Those against retaining him have given their reasons why they think he can be replaced with a better/cheaper/younger/etc. option.

No one is denying that fans hold an emotional attachment to Cooley but stating that no deeper reason that "I love him" has been given is completely false. It's lazy journalism looking for a reaction.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

If Cooley IS on his way out, we might find out rather quickly since June 1st is tomorrow. His cap hit (whatever it would be) can be distributed over to next year, plus the cuts from other teams might have Shanahan wanting more cap space now in order to get a newly released player...which might have been the plan all along.

[cphil006]

Good read! Thanks!!

[cphil006]

That's true, Chris is one cut away from missing the season.

So is Fred Davis though. Knee injuries don't just hit those who had them before.

However if Chris smokes pot one day he's not going home for a year. Davis is.

That's the biggest thing... Davis is a positive-test away from a one-year suspension...

I'd like to keep both as well as Paulsen and Niles... mostly Niles because he can play WR, too, still... not that we need him there, but I think Chris really only has one more season left here.

[Uno Mas]

What is a stretch? Paul having a career at the TE position nearly as productive as Sharpe's or him making the transition to the TE position successfully at all?

My thing is, we really don't need Paul's career at TE to rival Sharpe's. If Paul could be just as good of a TE as Fred Davis is, then I predict that we are in for one entertaining season.

You said it yourself that Paul gained weight and we already know that the kid is tough as nails. You put those things together with 4.4 speed and WR type hands and sky's the limit IMHO.

Any time you compare a second year, 5th round pick to a HOF'er, it's a major stretch.

[Lavarleap56]

If Cooley IS on his way out, we might find out rather quickly since June 1st is tomorrow. His cap hit (whatever it would be) can be distributed over to next year, plus the cuts from other teams might have Shanahan wanting more cap space now in order to get a newly released player...which might have been the plan all along.

June 1st has no bearing on Cooley at this point. Redskins could have released Cooley in March,April,or May and designated him a post June 1st release and still received the same salary benefit. Teams are allowed one pre-june 1st release like this year a now under terms of the new cba.

[tiger187126]

Do you think there WILL be an odd man out after Bruce Allen said they plan on carrying four TEs?

since at least two of our current TEs could line up wide (davis and paul) it'll be interesting to see if they keep cooley because he's more of a total package TE and a guy like paulson as a pure blocker (although we could do better).

[Lavarleap56]

Any time you compare a second year, 5th round pick to a HOF'er, it's a major stretch.

lol so it is a major stretch to compare the physical attributes of two players even though the info is slightly inaccurate. Shannon played at 237-240 and Niles Paul is currently 237 not 227. The main point is Shanahan converted Shannon from a WR to a TE just like he is doing with Paul.

[Uno Mas]

lol so it is a major stretch to compare the physical attributes of two players even though the info is slightly inaccurate. Shannon played at 237-240 and Niles Paul is currently 237 not 227. The main point is Shanahan converted Shannon from a WR to a TE just like he is doing with Paul.

Love the optimism. So how much would you be willing to throw down that Paul becomes a HOF'er?

[tiger187126]

Love the optimism. So how much would you be willing to throw down that Paul becomes a HOF'er?

saying that two things have the same beginning doesn't imply that they'll end the same. i think you're taking things a little too far with this and missing the point.

[Lavarleap56]

Love the optimism. So how much would you be willing to throw down that Paul becomes a HOF'er?

What I posted was fact not optimism.

[Uno Mas]

saying that two things have the same beginning doesn't imply that they'll end the same. i think you're taking things a little too far with this and missing the point.

Have you read the thread title?

[tiger187126]

Have you read the thread title?

have you read the article?

Niles Paul Following in Shannon Sharpe's Footateps (meaning making the same conversion under the same coach) May Not Be as Crazy as it Sounds

it doesn't even sound crazy, he's making the transition and has a similar build to the guy who did it before him. if i were to say to you a WR is going to be converted to TE you would say it was crazy because WR's lack that size, but i would say back, no niles paul is the same size as shannon sharpe was when shannahan converted him.

but somehow in that cooley loving brain of yours all of this equals:

niles paul is shannon sharpe and will make the hall of fame.

[Uno Mas]

have you read the article?

Niles Paul Following in Shannon Sharpe's Footateps (meaning making the same conversion under the same coach) May Not Be as Crazy as it Sounds

it doesn't even sound crazy, he's making the transition and has a similar build to the guy who did it before him. if i were to say to you a WR is going to be converted to TE you would say it was crazy because WR's lack that size, but i would say back, no niles paul is the same size as shannon sharpe was when shannahan converted him.

but somehow in that cooley loving brain of yours all of this equals:

niles paul is shannon sharpe and will make the hall of fame.

Direct quote from article: 'The big question here is: cam Paul put in the work to make the transition from just having physical similarities to Sharpe, and turn them into a career that rivals the hall of famer.'

Obviously one of us read the article.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify, once and for all.

My 'Cooley loving brain' (good one) doesnt want to dismiss #47 because up until his injuries, he was one of the most productive TE this team has ever had. The man is only 29 years old. If, big if, he can stay healthy, I dont see how he suddenly becomes unproductive. He's never had great speed, just a knack to make plays. Paul is a complete unknown, but trust me, if he can produce like CC47 has, he'll be my new sig sooner than later. Im rooting for the guy.

I think there are too many folks on here latching on to the words of 'insiders' who, when it comes down to it, are just fans like you and me. It's all speculation until coach makes an announcement. Especially now that we're hearing that the team is hoping to carry 4 TE, it seems very unlikely that we've seen the last of CC, barring injury.