SOW| Niles Paul Following in Shannon Sharpe's Footsteps May Not Be as Crazy as it Sounds

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Do you know what Cooley's numbers were in Shanahan's offense? lol...

Imo, it's not just "the numbers". It's the lack of explosiveness and apparently, that is what Shanny covets.

[KingGibbs]

Yes Cali. I am emotionally attached to your every word.:doh: Yet you can't help but to be in love with me and respond to mine.

[E-Dog Night]

Is this your way of saying I don't have any valid points in my posts, and that all my viewpoints are emotional? lol

Nah, you are one of the guys around here that I respect the most. Your posts are usually thoughtful and reasonable, even if I don't always agree with them. Seems like you're just on the attack this morning.

[KingGibbs]

He's also coming off a very terrible year by his standards. And I'm not one of those emotional, hang on to player types. I thought Shanahan did Portis a favor his first year here, when I would have cut him. I still think Cooley can contribute to this team and I'm also aware that if he makes the roster, this is by all intents and purposes, Cooley's last year as a Redskin. He will not be on the roster next season.

Hey man. I think it sucks to even think about the 'skins being without Cooley, but it's the nature of the NFL.

If he is with the team come the season then it is a win/win for all of us because it means he can contribute.

[pjfootballer]

Also the point made with Moss was that he was still on the roster that was it

You mentioned a "slimmer" Moss, which insinuates that that is a reason he is still on the roster. My point was, Cooley has lost weight also, but doesn't get the same benefit of doubt. Moss had a terrible season and has clearly slowed down, yet his weight loss will allow him to contribute to the team more than he has. Cooley just completed OTAs with no knee swelling for the first time in over a year and has also lost weight.

---------- Post added May-30th-2012 at 10:27 AM ----------

Hey man. I think it sucks to even think about the 'skins being without Cooley, but it's the nature of the NFL.

Hey, I'm fine if they cut him. I may not agree with the coaches, but they know better than me. But as of now, he's still on the roster and I'll continue to support him staying on the roster as long as I know he can contribute. If he was still hobbling around and looked out of shape, I'd cut him in an instant. I understand the business side of the NFL and I'm OK with them cutting him if it's for the better of the team, but there have been too many fans in ES that have been 100% sure he's a gone without us hearing from the coaching staff. And I don't take everything that "insiders" say as gospel. Afterall, Jason LaCanfora is considered an "insider" and you see where that goes.

[rd421]

You mentioned a "slimmer" Moss, which insinuates that that is a reason he is still on the roster. My point was, Cooley has lost weight also, but doesn't get the same benefit of doubt. Moss had a terrible season and has clearly slowed down, yet his weight loss will allow him to contribute to the team more than he has. Cooley just completed OTAs with no knee swelling for the first time in over a year and has also lost weight.

In my opinion Moss is on the roster because Eddie Royal isn't

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Imo, it's not just "the numbers". It's the lack of explosiveness and apparently, that is what Shanny covets.

That'll definitely be what Shanny's looking for in Cooley...but it's a mistake to think that what we saw of Cooley last year was due to him "losing a step" or "slowing down". It was due to a knee injury. We haven't seen what Cooley is still capable of this year when completely healthy. But then again, that point has been beaten to death on this site ...Cooley has to prove he's healthy and that he's worth keeping on the roster. Some of us think that if he proves the first part, he'll end up proving the 2nd part. That's pretty much what this whole thing boils down to.

---------- Post added May-30th-2012 at 07:35 AM ----------

Nah, you are one of the guys around here that I respect the most. Your posts are usually thoughtful and reasonable, even if I don't always agree with them. Seems like you're just on the attack this morning.

Just so you know, my "wink" emoticon was supposed to convey that I wasn't being serious lol :yes:...

And, yeah...after that last lengthy, multi-page thread in which the whole idea of the Cooley argument being the "emotional fans vs. rational, unbiased fans" was finally put to rest, seeing a brand spanking new thread dedicated to dredging up that same ridiculous framing argument definitely made me want to speak out.

In reality, many times a thread like this ends up being locked because it dredges up those same tired arguments...and the mods don't want to see us go even further on the down escalator of stupidity ...

[Dick Edds]

Listen man I have yet to see you bring a reason why he should stick around, honestly I would love to hear it others have made great points and I commend that but to just keep throwing "your wrong" at me is pretty silly. Make a legit point as to why his inflated salary and injury concerns aren't an issue and why it is in this teams best Interest to move forward with him.

Noooooooo ... Cooley can;t leave! He's my favorite player! Jk, but not really. He IS my favorite player and would hate to see him be cut. But that is irrelevant to this discussion. There have been PLENTY of logical and well thought out opinions on what his value to this team actually is (performance vs. salary, etc). Like someone mentioned above, that info is pretty easy to find right here on ES. But putting my own bias aside, no player is bigger than the team and it would have been interesting had you asked these people (who all say "I love Cooley" as the only reason not to cut him), whether they would rather see him cut and have more success as a team, or whether they would rather him stay and take up a valuable roster spot? Some type of research like that would lend you more credibility in these blogs.

It is possible to love Cooley as one's favorite player, but to also see the benefit of keeping him around at least one more year.

When you think back when Shanny first came to DC, and there was a lot of talk about trading Cooley (when his value was at its highest and Fred was emerging as a play-maker) ... I specifically recall Bruce Allen responding to all the rumors/chatter about trading Cooley for more draft picks. I think Bruce's response went along the lines of "we don't think the best way to build this team is by getting rid of its best players" (in reference to Cooley as one of our better players).

I don't think there is a skins fan out there that wouldn't want to see a player like Niles become the next Shannon Sharper ... I mean the guy is a HOF'er, who the heck wouldn't want that on their team?

For all of the apparent lack of the "legitimate" reasons why Cooley should make the roster, there are just as many (if not more man-crushes) on players that are moved to different positions, drafted in the 7th round or traded for, etc. that are all "feel good stories".

heck, Ryan Torrain was a "feel good" story for a bout 4 weeks. I'm not shrugging at the notion that Shanny sees something in Paul, i sincerely hope he does. But I don't think that has some type of major conflict with keeping a player like Cooley on this team.

if Cooley is fully healthy he is worth the money. Even if he does take a back seat to Fred ... it doesn't mean he won't contribute and be a valuable member of this team. maybe he wold restructure to stay here ... or maybe he will break out again and prove all the same doubters wrong who didn't believe in him before. But that is why they play the game and that is what Training camp will decide.

I think it's a bit pre-mature to assume Cooley won't make the roster, too many talking heads out there have been saying this for some time already b/c they either doubt his physical ability/health right now or don't like his cap # as a 2nd string TE, and i think if Shanny & Bruce thought the salary cap was too big of an obstacle for what his envisioned role on this team will be next year, he would be cut already. Cooley's future lies in his own hands, literally. I am however happy for the fact that he controls his own destiny (somewhat) and isn't being disgarded like a reserve player on madden (I'm not suggesting you are).

HTTR!

[KingGibbs]

One thing I did notice (and mentioned) about Paul last year is he seems to excel as a blocker. I think that is another reason that Shanny has made the switch.

Just thought I'd get this thread back on topic and not continue the Cooley debate.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

And in reality, I opened this thread up because I thought it was going to be about Niles Paul lol ...more than half of the article is spent talking about Cooley and the emotionally naive fans who want him on the team.

As for the Paul tidbits themselves:

One of the biggest arguments against this move I have heard is that Paul is not tough enough to block and do the dirty work associated with TE. Call me crazy, but I am pretty sure one inch and four pounds is not a big enough difference to separate him from Sharpe, who made out quite nicely, thank you very much.

During the course of last season, Niles dished out a number bone crunching hits in his role as lead blocker for Brandon Banks on kickoff returns, and he was also one of the leading tacklers on special teams. The kid can bring the wood.

Being a good blocker--especially at TE--isn't simply about "toughness". Blocking is technique as much as it is strength. It's a technique that you have to develop...good and bad technique is what separates a good, clean block from a whiff, or from a holding call. What's important here when thinking of Paul becoming a TE with far more presence on the field is not just whether or not he's similar in size to Sharpe, but whether he's similar in technique (blocking, route-running, everything). Let's pray he turns out to be, even if it's not necessarily this year...because we're spending time and resources in the belief that he can.

The big question here is: can Paul put in the work to make the transition from just having physical similarities to Sharpe, and turn them into a career that rivals the hall of famer.

Nah, that's not the "big question"...the big question is whether or not Paul has the multiple attributes mentally and skill-wise to transition his talents to TE in a productive way. I don't think anyone has questioned whether or not Paul is dedicated-enough of a player to put in the necessary hard work.

---------- Post added May-30th-2012 at 08:00 AM ----------

I was going to say this and you beat me to it. Funny how a 32 year old Moss is suddenly rejuvenated with weight loss, but 29 year old Cooley is not.

Cooley doesn't really have a weight loss issue...he slimmed down last offseason. But it could be said that he is "rejuvenated" now that he has a completely healthy knee. A few too many seem to think Cooley's lack of speed last year was due to age or a build-up of previous injuries taking their toll. It was because he was still injured with a knee that was being drained on damn near a daily basis lol...

That's why his health is so important now. If...IF...he's able to prove he's 100% healthy, he becomes a VERY valid weapon for RG3...yes, even in Shanahan's offense lol ..

Listen man I have yet to see you bring a reason why he should stick around, honestly I would love to hear it others have made great points and I commend that but to just keep throwing "your wrong" at me is pretty silly. Make a legit point as to why his inflated salary and injury concerns aren't an issue and why it is in this teams best Interest to move forward with him.

It's been done so freakin' many times on this site, and is sooooooooooo easy to find, why do it again on here? Just type "Cooley" and "Paul" in search and voila...

But here you go anyway lol...

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?365626-CBS-DC-Healthy-Cooley-Confident-He%E2%80%99ll-Be-%E2%80%9CA-Major-Factor%E2%80%9D-For-Redskins&daysprune=7

Noooooooo ... Cooley can;t leave! He's my favorite player! Jk, but not really. He IS my favorite player and would hate to see him be cut. But that is irrelevant to this discussion. There have been PLENTY of logical and well thought out opinions on what his value to this team actually is (performance vs. salary, etc). Like someone mentioned above, that info is pretty easy to find right here on ES.

Exactly :yes:

(a bunch of other great stuff)

Well said :applause:

[pjfootballer]

It is possible to love Cooley as one's favorite player, but to also see the benefit of keeping him around at least one more year.

This quote pretty much speaks for itself.

Anyway, I hope that Paul "will" become the next Shannon Sharpe. But I still think we have something special with Sleepy Davis. If he's truly put the weed away, all three of these guys can be deadly in their own way.

[HailSkins83]

Im rooting for Niles. This offense keeps getting younger and faster...

How many times have we seen Cooley or Davis wide open when catching the ball only to be ran down from behind.

[rd421]

Im rooting for Niles. This offense keeps getting younger and faster...

How many times have we seen Cooley or Davis wide open when catching the ball only to be ran down from behind.

Paul does have the wheels to beat that

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Im rooting for Niles. This offense keeps getting younger and faster...

How many times have we seen Cooley or Davis wide open when catching the ball only to be ran down from behind.

I touched on that in the other thread...that for all the athleticism Davis brings to the TE position, he has never scored a TD outside of the red zone. I think his longest TD catch is 17 yards, and the rest were 10 yards or less. All but two of his TDs were caught inside the end zone (or at the one foot line lol)...and from what Shanahan said earlier in the year he felt that the pass catchers only scoring when inside the end zone was not a good sign for the offense...it was a huge reason why he got Garcon and Morgan specifically. He wants playmakers on offense, and playmaking pass catchers at least occasionally turn 20 yard receptions into TDs. Davis needs to be more than just athletic...he needs to develop into a playmaker.

[pjfootballer]

I touched on that in the other thread...that for all the athleticism Davis brings to the TE position, he has never scored a TD outside of the red zone. I think his longest TD catch is 17 yards, and the rest were 10 yards or less. All but two of his TDs were caught inside the end zone (or at the one foot line lol)...and from what Shanahan said earlier in the year he felt that the pass catchers only scoring when inside the end zone was not a good sign for the offense...it was a huge reason why he got Garcon and Morgan specifically. He wants playmakers on offense, and playmaking pass catchers at least occasionally turn 20 yard receptions into TDs. Davis needs to be more than just athletic...he needs to develop into a playmaker.

Part of the problem was the lack of YAC from our receivers (TEs and WRs) and the other part was weak armed Rexy. I think both problems have been solved. I do remember a couple of times Davis having to come back for the ball as did most of our receivers.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Part of the problem was the lack of YAC from our receivers (TEs and WRs) and the other part was weak armed Rexy. I think both problems have been solved. I do remember a couple of times Davis having to come back for the ball as did most of our receivers.

Rex definitely played his role, but from listening to Shanahan he felt the WRs just didn't get it done in terms of making plays (not just YAC)...that's why Kyle said Rex was actually the best playmaker on the offense last season, and why Shanahan brought in two WRs. As you said, both problems were solved...and hell, maybe Shanny feels he'll be "solving" the lack of playmaking issue at TE with Paul. But mostly, if Davis IS going to be the answer at TE for the foreseeable future, he needs to step up his playmaking. Catching a wide-open pass at the 40 with nobody around him and getting stopped at the 10 yard line isn't good enough.

[Hiro]

I actually no idea that Shannon Sharpe was a converted wide receiver. I looked it up, and it turns out that he was also converted in his 2nd season, and only had like 5 more catches than Paul did during his rookie season (mind you, they had John Elway throwing the ball). Both his first and his second seasons were with Mike as an offensive assistant.

I don't think it's too farfetched to say that Mike might see in Niles what he saw in Shannon.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I don't think it's too farfetched to say that Mike might see in Niles what he saw in Shannon.

Neither do I...

I do, though, think it's farfetched right NOW to believe that because Sharpe did it, Paul will do it lol (thankfully not too many feel that way)...

I also think it's farfetched right NOW to believe Paul has already made Cooley expendable.

[tiger187126]

being a WR at nebraska gave him more than enough practice blocking.

[roanoker]

Great back and forth, especially from you senior posters.

IMO, no coach in their right mind is going to get rid of a seasoned veteran that can contribute to the team; the caveat is of course is salary cap issues. The speculation about Cooley, Davis and Paul is interesting and fosters competition Can a healthy Cooley out play Paul and Davis? Can Paul make a successful transition? Has Davis cleaned up his act and performs as the #1 TE? Who is going to be the odd man out? OTAs, Mini Camp and training camp will answer these questions. I'm stoked!

---------- Post added May-30th-2012 at 01:56 PM ----------

Great back and forth, especially from you senior posters.

IMO, no coach in their right mind is going to get rid of a seasoned veteran that can contribute to the team; the caveat is of course is salary cap issues. The speculation about Cooley, Davis and Paul is interesting and fosters competition Can a healthy Cooley out play Paul and Davis? Can Paul make a successful transition? Has Davis cleaned up his act and performs as the #1 TE? Who is going to be the odd man out? OTAs, Mini Camp and training camp will answer these questions. I'm stoked!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Great back and forth, especially from you senior posters.

IMO, no coach in their right mind is going to get rid of a seasoned veteran that can contribute to the team; the caveat is of course is salary cap issues. The speculation about Cooley, Davis and Paul is interesting and fosters competition Can a healthy Cooley out play Paul and Davis? Can Paul make a successful transition? Has Davis cleaned up his act and performs as the #1 TE? Who is going to be the odd man out? OTAs, Mini Camp and training camp will answer these questions. I'm stoked!

Do you think there WILL be an odd man out after Bruce Allen said they plan on carrying four TEs?

[rd421]

Do you think there WILL be an odd man out after Bruce Allen said they plan on carrying four TEs?

The 4 TE statement really does seem to make Cooley a little safer but the cap is still an issue IMO. I will let you guys know what I see tomorrow at OTA's perhaps Cooley looks great and I'm wrong but I'll see it with my own eyes before I decide 100%

[2cents]

Do you think there WILL be an odd man out after Bruce Allen said they plan on carrying four TEs?

Yes. Brandon Banks.

[pjfootballer]

I actually no idea that Shannon Sharpe was a converted wide receiver. I looked it up, and it turns out that he was also converted in his 2nd season, and only had like 5 more catches than Paul did during his rookie season (mind you, they had John Elway throwing the ball). Both his first and his second seasons were with Mike as an offensive assistant.

I don't think it's too farfetched to say that Mike might see in Niles what he saw in Shannon.

We've been doing Fantasy Football since 1991 and its funny that you mentioned that. We actually came up with a rule that you could start a RB at the TE position, but you could not use the RBs rushing yards, only his receiving yards. It was called the Keith Byars rule because he lined up in multiple positions. We had a heck of a time determining Sharpe's position his first couple of years in the league. I had him on my roster, then dropped him, because I wasn't sure he was a TE. My friend picked him up and rode him and his other WRs to a title 3 years in a row. We are in a keeper league. I did pick up Ben Coates, who was a beast for about 5 years to replace Sharpe. I also had his brother Sterling for a few seasons.

[Murphs56]

Shanahan tends to believe in certain guys ala Grossman and Beck, but I do see the physical tools in Paul...If he can complement Davis in any way, that would be a huge plus