Mr. Daisey and the Apple Factory (This American Life)

[AsburySkinsFan]

Mike Daisey is a former high school classmate of mine (well actually 2 years ahead of me), he was always known as one who would cut through the bullcrap and tell the truth as he saw it. He now is a professional monologuist who works in the New York theater industry. Over the past 19 months Mike has been performing his latest monologue entitled "The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs", which was inspired by his impromptu investigation into the Chinese manufacturing industry which is for all intents and purposes multi-billion dollar sweat shops. Lately, Mike has been seen on everything from Bill Maher, to MSNBC, but this piece on "This American Life" to me seems the most poignant.

Please listen at the link....just press the "PLAY" button beside the factory picture on the following page.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/mr-daisey-and-the-apple-factory

Prologue.

Host Ira Glass speaks with an Apple device about its origin. (2 minutes)

Act One. Mister Daisey Goes to China.

Mike Daisey performs an excerpt that was adapted for radio from his one-man show "The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs." A lifelong Apple superfan, Daisey sees some photos online from the inside of a factory that makes iPhones, starts to wonder about the people working there, and flies to China to meet them. His show restarts a run at New York's Public Theater later this month. (39 minutes)

Act Two. Act One.

What should we make of what Mike Daisey saw in China? Our staff did weeks of fact checking to corroborate Daisey's findings. Ira talks with Ian Spaulding, founder and managing director of INFACT Global Partners, which goes into Chinese factories and helps them meet social responsibility standards set by Western companies (Apple's Supplier Responsibility page is here), and with Nicholas Kristof, columnist for The New York Times who has reported in Asian factories. In the podcast and streaming versions of the program he also speaks with Debby Chan Sze Wan, a project manager at the advocacy group SACOM, Students and Scholars Against Corporate Misbehavior, based in Hong Kong. They've put out three reports investigating conditions at Foxconn (October 2010, May 2011, Sept 2011). Each report surveyed over 100 Foxconn workers, and they even had a researcher go undercover and take a job at the Shenzhen plant. (15 minutes)

Below is the link to the transcript

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/transcript

Here is a piece from that pinko commie Bill Moyers.

http://billmoyers.com/2012/02/23/mike-daisey-takes-a-bite-out-of-apple/

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Mike has also released the entire transcript of "The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs" free of charge via download here.

http://mikedaisey.blogspot.com/p/monologues.html

Here is the Bill Maher piece....per the norm Bill tosses in an NSFW line.

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[Burgold]

Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of this story. Are you guys still in touch?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of this story. Are you guys still in touch?

Yep, through facebook, he remembers me too which IMO is pretty cool so now I can honestly say, "I knew him when". I dated his sister for a little while too and we had our first protest together too, our high school's Columbus Day celebration which presented a sterilized dramatization of the landing. LoL! I guess I was a Librawl in the making then too.

[Burgold]

Hmmm... let me check with the office and see if I can get the green light. If so, I'd love to arrange a chat with him if you can help me pull it off.

[Larry]

This seems like the 50th time I've seen this story. And what I'm noticing is that I'd bet that every electronics company in the world has parts made by Foxconn, but probably 3/4 of the stories point fingers at Apple, and I've never seen one that mentions any other company.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Hmmm... let me check with the office and see if I can get the green light. If so, I'd love to arrange a chat with him if you can help me pull it off.

Sure, he's on facebook under his own name and is very active, I can toss a pm over to him giving him a head's up obviously it'll carry about as much water a bucket with a hole in it, but he's been doing a lot of interviews latetly, and is loving that the issue is gaing a ton of traction in the media so he may be open for an interview. When I send the pm I'll link some of your stories etc so he can hear your work. No guarrantees obviously, but certainly worth a shot.

Just let me know when you're ready and I'll drop him a line.

---------- Post added February-24th-2012 at 07:50 AM ----------

This seems like the 50th time I've seen this story. And what I'm noticing is that I'd bet that every electronics company in the world has parts made by Foxconn, but probably 3/4 of the stories point fingers at Apple, and I've never seen one that mentions any other company.

Listen to the audio on the "This American Life" site, Mike is not naive, he states clearly and often that all of our Chinese made electronics are made there, in fact when he went "under-cover" as a buyer he went to several non-Foxconn factories, and to be sure Foxconn makes more than Apple products. Mike uses Apple because of their public image which is supposed to be cleaner than the rest of the industry, but he most certainly knows and states that this is an industry wide practice including Dell, HP, and nearly all of our stuff with the "Made in China" stamp on it.

[Burgold]

Cool. I'll see what they say.

[MattFancy]

Its kinda funny that most would associate hipsters with Apple. Yet, Apple is becoming more of the mainstream. Do I think they should take blame in this? Definitely. Are they the only one to blame? Definitely not. But, this is what comes along with being the biggest in the industry.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Its kinda funny that most would associate hipsters with Apple. Yet, Apple is becoming more of the mainstream. Do I think they should take blame in this? Definitely. Are they the only one to blame? Definitely not. But, this is what comes along with being the biggest in the industry.

Yep, the interesting thing though is that since Apple is the "Hippster computer", and Hippsters like to think of themselves as socially conscious buyers that Apple is the perfect company for Mike's case study. What's also cool is that because of this heightened media focus (obviously not all of which came from Mike's work) Apple is auditing its supply chain and making the results public...however...and why is there always a caveat...Foxconn et al always knew ahead of time when the company inspectors were coming so they cleaned up their act. When Mike went in as a buyer, he says they showed him anything he wanted to see, the dorms, the factory floor, the cafeterias...everything, which far more than any other journalist has managed to date. His description of the 12x12 dorms with bunks stacked so close to each other that the workers have to slide into their beds was heart breaking...is this a better existence than working in a rice field? Who knows, but the suicide nets around the buildings give us a hint.

[Larry]

Its kinda funny that most would associate hipsters with Apple. Yet, Apple is becoming more of the mainstream. Do I think they should take blame in this? Definitely. Are they the only one to blame? Definitely not. But, this is what comes along with being the biggest in the industry.

Apple in the biggest in the industry?

They're the biggest in the iPhone industry. But Foxcon makes electronics. For just about everybody. Is Apple bigger than, say, HP/Compaq? Bigger than Cisco? (I'm assuming that Foxcon makes things for those two companies.)

[MattFancy]

Apple in the biggest in the industry?

They're the biggest in the iPhone industry. But Foxcon makes electronics. For just about everybody. Is Apple bigger than, say, HP/Compaq? Bigger than Cisco? (I'm assuming that Foxcon makes things for those two companies.)

Apple makes the most money

[AsburySkinsFan]

Mike's Q&A on C-SPAN

For me the best thing about what Mike is doing is that he is a self avowed Mac worshiper, he loves Mac, all things Mac...which is where the Ecstasy comes from, but that leads to the Agony.

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---------- Post added February-24th-2012 at 10:23 AM ----------

Comments made by Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple)

http://www.baycitizen.org/theater/story/stage-afterward-spotlight-apple-china/

Jobs, who is on a medical leave of absence from Apple, has not seen the show, but Steve Wozniak, the co-founder of the company with Jobs, was in the audience Tuesday night.

Reached by e-mail and asked to comment on the performance, Wozniak said: “I will never be the same after seeing that show.”

To research “The Agony and the Ecstasy of Steve Jobs,” which is the artist's 16th monologue and one of several to deal with technology, Daisey traveled to the Foxconn factory in Shenzhen, China, a massive industrial complex where nearly one million workers make electronic devices for Apple and others. He hired a translator and spent three weeks talking with employees in the area. Stories from the workers, many of whom he said were children under 16, are woven into the monologue and give the audience a rare insight into smartphones, tablet computers and other popular devices: they are made largely by human hands.

“The shocking things that Mike said which brought me to tears were so because they came as a first-person story,” Wozniak said. “Mike was living the pain of what he was describing as he told it.”

Source: The Bay Citizen (http://s.tt/129Wg)

[Elessar78]

Powerful piece. Unfortunately, all of our consumer electronics and probably most of our consumer goods are manufactured under similar circumstances. It's what feeds the consumerist beast.

It's tough because these factory workers aren't stupid, but sometimes they don't know another model exists or that other work is not a better alternative.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Powerful piece. Unfortunately, all of our consumer electronics and probably most of our consumer goods are manufactured under similar circumstances. It's what feeds the consumerist beast.

Exactly right, and I feel that the reason so many here in America don't want to address this issue in any substantive way is that it means as much about adressing our cultural demand for cheap disposable goods as it does our desire for humane working conditions in China, as it does our never ending desire for higher stock prices.

It's tough because these factory workers aren't stupid, but sometimes they don't know another model exists or that other work is not a better alternative.

That's what I loved about the part where after a week of interviews Mike's translator asks him honestly if he thinks these people are all insane, in some way she seemed to be searching for an answer that didn't point to and extremely repressive system.

[Larry]

I've wondered for a while if there isn't something we can do about things like this.

I've considered the direct legal approach. As I understand it, the US has laws that actually make it illegal for US citizens to travel abroad, for purposes of doing things like child sex, even if such things are legal in the country he's traveling to.

I would assume that, since corporations are people, we could simply make it illegal for any US corporation to perform certain, specified, labor practices, even if said practices are legal in the country where performed. That we could, for example, mandate that US corporations pay a certain minimum wage to workers, even if abroad.

But that would only apply to US corporations.

I've considered that (I think) that most corporations, and most of the world, frankly, only cares about the US as a place to sell things. That they think of us as customers. Well, it occurs to me that customers have power over corporations.

We could make it illegal for products to be sold in the US, unless said products are made using certain minimum labor practices.

And I'm thinking that we ought to set the minimum very low. I don't think we should mandate that everybody in China make the US minimum wage, a 40 hour work week, and three weeks paid vacation a year. But I don't think it would be unreasonable to mandate, say, a dollar an hour, and no more than six, ten hour, days, a week. Something that's still low enough to encourage business to expand, but it isn't slavery, either.

Yep, you can pay your workers 7 cents an hour to make your tennis shoes. But if you do, you won't be able to sell them in the US.

Then there's the more voluntary, libertarian approach.

Create some kind of independent organization, that has the authority to put a sticker on a product. (Or legislate rules for such a sticker.) In order for your product to get a sticker, then it has to be made in accordance with said minimum labor practices. (And every component in it must be stickered, too.) Advertise that "this sticker means that you aren't contributing to slavery". Let consumers "vote with their wallets".

(Only problem is, we all know which way consumers will vote.)

[Elessar78]

They discuss in act two about how empllyees are voting with their feet. Turnover is really high and at some point it can't be cheaper to constantly train replacements and in time you're going to run out of replacements who are willing.

The piece also touched on an interesting thing aspect in that China is a nascent economy. The US went through the same thing during this coutry's rise—we grew through environmentally destructive practices and ghastly working conditions.

[Larry]

They discuss in act two about how empllyees are voting with their feet. Turnover is really high and at some point it can't be cheaper to constantly train replacements and in time you're going to run out of replacements who are willing.

The piece also touched on an interesting thing aspect in that China is a nascent economy. The US went through the same thing during this coutry's rise—we grew through environmentally destructive practices and ghastly working conditions.

I wouldn't count on China running out of disposable employees any time soon.

[AsburySkinsFan]

They discuss in act two about how empllyees are voting with their feet. Turnover is really high and at some point it can't be cheaper to constantly train replacements and in time you're going to run out of replacements who are willing.

Yeah, the turnover is something like 20%, that is just crazy, but how hard can it be to train a person to wipe down the glass for an iPhone?

The piece also touched on an interesting thing aspect in that China is a nascent economy. The US went through the same thing during this coutry's rise—we grew through environmentally destructive practices and ghastly working conditions.

The major difference here is that in the US we have the right to form a union, there the gov't steps in and ships you off to a work camp or blacklists you. The only way we grew out of corporate abuse was the ability to go on strike with a union, a right that these people do not have. In many ways the people of China are the ants in the movie "A Bugs Life", the day they realize there are more of them than the grasshoppers it's game over.

[Elessar78]

Nice analogy. But I think even in the American version, the workers had to fight for the right to unionize and sometimes it was bloody.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Nice analogy. But I think even in the American version, the workers had to fight for the right to unionize and sometimes it was bloody.

True enough but even at its bloodiest it wasn't the US gov't rolling over them in tanks.

[alexey]

True enough but even at its bloodiest it wasn't the US gov't rolling over them in tanks.

the good news is that such exploitation requires our tacit approval. We can actually change things if we have the political will for it.

The bad news is that currently in our country political will can be purchased. The circle is complete, and our national dialog does not appear to be moving in the proper direction.

Where are the dems with the balls? Russ Feingold has been making the rounds, he seems to be talking about some of these things. Or maybe Obama will remember the platform that he ran on a few years back. An election between extreme nuts right and moderate "fair share" right will not be fun.

[AsburySkinsFan]

the good news is that such exploitation requires our tacit approval. We can actually change things if we have the political will for it.

Agree and in a market where the consumers as a whole can force companies to change the way companies operate, that's the hopeful part.

The bad news is that currently in our country political will can be purchased. The circle is complete, and our national dialog does not appear to be moving in the proper direction.

Agreed, in this devisive climate I find it difficult to imagine unified populace joining together for any thing especially since the industires which would have to change will simply buy their own experts who will sell the status quo and lies like the one's that say that sweat shops are necessary in developing economies, when the reality is that sweatshops are necessary in developing economies in order to sustain the self indulgent levels of consumerism we see in our society today.

Where are the dems with the balls? Russ Feingold has been making the rounds, he seems to be talking about some of these things. Or maybe Obama will remember the platform that he ran on a few years back. An election between extreme nuts right and moderate "fair share" right will not be fun.

Political will is soley dependent upon finances, when the money flows politicians grow all sorts of courage.

[Dan T.]

*Bump*

Well, it looks like Mr. Daisey made up "facts" for his "This American Life" piece:

This American Life retracts Apple episode, says Daisey fabricated parts

The public radio show This American Life has retracted an entire storyline told by comedian and self-described Apple "fanboy" Mike Daisey that aired in early January after Daisey's translator said he made up significant details of the tale.

In a press release, the show says the episode was the most popular in its history and was downloaded 888,000 times. The episode also sparked a petition for Apple to improve its working conditions that was signed by a quarter of a million people.

Daisey said in the 39-minute episode that he became curious about the conditions of Chinese factories where Apple products are made after he discovered photos of factory workers that were left onto his iPhone by mistake. He travelled to the factories in Shenzhen, China and interviewed workers there, who told him they endured terrible working conditions. Daisey described meeting workers whose hands were shaking after they were poisoned with the neurotoxin hexane and meeting several children right at the gates of the factory who were as young as 12 years old.

The China correspondent for the radio show Marketplace, Rob Schmitz, wrote that he decided to track down Daisey's translator after he found it suspicious for Daisey to ferret out some of the worst labor abuses reporters have been hunting for years in a six-day trip to the site. Translator Cathy Lee told Schmitz that she never saw the underaged or poisoned workers, and that she also never saw armed factory guards, which Daisey describes.

So why didn't This American Life talk to Cathy Lee earlier, before they aired the episode? In a press release, the show says Daisey told them he lost her cell phone number. "At that point, we should've killed the story," show host Ira Glass said in the release. "But other things Daisey told us about Apple's operations in China checked out, and we saw no reason to doubt him. We didn't think that he was lying to us and to audiences about the details of his story. That was a mistake."

This American Life claimed it did "weeks of fact checking to corroborate Daisey's findings," when airing his original episode.

A new episode explaining how the show was duped will air Friday at 8 p.m. According to Schmitz, Daisey admits on the show that he never talked to poisoned workers.

More here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/american-life-retracts-apple-episode-says-daisey-fabricated-175638428.html

While he still stands by parts of his story, this quote from Daisey sums it up:

"My mistake, the mistake I truly regret, is that I had it on your show as journalism, and it's not journalism. It's theater."

[Larry]

He's an entertainer.

----------

That said, I have to confess that I'm not certain that I'd take the word of a translator who I assume works for the Chinese government's "what do we want foreigners to see" department, either.

[Mad Mike]

Let's all give a hand to Michael Moore, who made bull****, fabricated documentaries like this popular. Here's to all those who think it's OK to lie to push their agenda. :finger:

---------- Post added March-16th-2012 at 07:41 PM ----------

He's an entertainer.

----------

That said, I have to confess that I'm not certain that I'd take the word of a translator who I assume works for the Chinese government's "what do we want foreigners to see" department, either.

It's more than just his word against the translator. And even if it wasn't, what does the fact that Daisey tried to prevent any contact with her tell you? Or the simple fact that he ADMITTED that he lied. :doh:

Something tells me you WANT to believe the lies.