Homer: Breaking down film of Luck, Griffin III and Tannehill

[Truant]

But Griffin's black and runs fast and Vick's black and runs fast so the two keep getting smashed together even though they're different prospects.

That's not fair. People always make comparisons. When people project players they try to find a player that came before that they remind them of. Griffin's athleticism coming out of college is comparable to only the most athletically gifted QBs to ever play - Newton, Vick, Elway come to mind. Both Elway and Newton are bigger guys, 6'3"+ with bigger frames. Elway was a beast in his day, but Newton can do things that John could never. Both Griffin and Vick have similar measurables (6"-6'1" 215-220) and a similar build as far as body proportion. Vick is rumored to have a bigger arm. Both are playmakers. Both are elusive in the pocket but Vick is more "make you miss" as you said. That right there is probably the best comparison you'll find of RGIII that has played in the NFL. If you have a list of players that compare better, please divulge. Steve McNair and Steve Young definitely doesn't have the same physical attributes.

When people earlier in this thread say that Tannehill reminds them of Campbell are they all taking into account all of the following factors: "attitude wise, skillset wise, arm strength wise, IQ wise, work ethic wise"? I highly doubt it. If you break it down to that level no prospect will be like any other player that has come before them. Yet people continue to make comparisons to help them project what a player is capable of.

As a minority myself I've found that if you have little faith in others and look for race/skin color to play a role, you'll probably find something -- even when those factors don't exist.

[Ryko]

The tease. I went to ASU and I live a few minutes away from campus. Saw just about every game he played. I would take him as an undrafted free agent, at best. Horrible accuracy and not good with game management. Has physical potential, but nothing comes easy for him. Just not a natural QB. He is big and athletic, but he doesn't have the presence or moxie... basically he has zero "it" factor.

This is the game that he's leaving in everyone's minds as he's declaring early. He was in a pass happy offense and took advantage of inflated stats and is declaring. He will not be missed.

You think he's a tease? He might be, I only watched "tape" I never saw a full game or know his personality or anything haha. BUT I saw that ESPN has him graded as a potential first or second rounder, so that got me thinking that maybe his potential isn't a magic trick and may actually be real.

[SilkyDiamonds]

In 2 years combined as QB for VT Michael Vick threw 313 passes.

RGIII as a true Frosh alone threw 267 passes (1159att in career)

Vick never completed 60% of his passes (56.5% comp for career)

RGIII's lowest comp% was as a Frosh 59.9% (67% comp for career)

Vick's Td/Int 20/11

RGIII 77/17 (19/3 as Frosh and 3 games in Soph yr)

These guys are WORLD's different

[GaryGreenMonk]

we'd have to pry Tannehill from the Dolphins if we wanted him I think. Which would mean probably reaching for him at 6.

Tannehill played under Mike Sherman at Texas A&M... Mike Sherman is the Dolphins new OC.

The Dolphins also publically stated that they have no intention of resigning Chad Henne, which leaves only Matt More with 1 more year on his contract on their roster.

[RWJ]

we'd have to pry Tannehill from the Dolphins if we wanted him I think. Which would mean probably reaching for him at 6.

Tannehill played under Mike Sherman at Texas A&M... Mike Sherman is the Dolphins new OC.

The Dolphins also publically stated that they have no intention of resigning Chad Henne, which leaves only Matt More with 1 more year on his contract on their roster.

This is the main reason I think we will have to get Tannehill @6 instead of trading down. Yes, it's a reach but if you can't get RG3, I think you select Tannehill @6.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Brock did NOT look good at all. Wow.

As for Tannahill - I guess it really doesn't matter. we can sit here and debate about what we think but the people in charge know a lot more and will ultimately decide. Whatever that choice is we live with it. Let's just hope it's not another 20 years of crap.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

That's not fair. People always make comparisons. When people project players they try to find a player that came before that they remind them of. Griffin's athleticism coming out of college is comparable to only the most athletically gifted QBs to ever play - Newton, Vick, Elway come to mind.

Griffin is 6'2, maybe 6'2.5. Vick is 6'0 (generously) and 210. Vick was a poor passer in college, Griffin was a dominant passer in college. Vick and Griffin are nowhere near each other as far as intangibles go. That's why it's bothering people, because they literally have nothing in common EXCEPT "black QBs who can run".

[Truant]

These guys are WORLD's different

That's production vs. projection. Both played in different offenses and had different coaching philosophies in different conferences. Comparisons can also be made on physical attributes such as size, weight, athletic ability, etc. By those standards I can see those two players being grouped together.

By your post I could probably pull Colt Brennan or that kid from Houston's numbers and say they are more similar to RGIII -- when that clearly would not be the case.

[GaryGreenMonk]

This is the main reason I think we will have to get Tannehill @6 instead of trading down. Yes, it's a reach but if you can't get RG3, I think you select Tannehill @6.

Yeah I agree.. if we trade down and have no QB yet.. the dolphins will MAKE SURE to trade up in front of whatever our next pick is.

I have said before that Tannehill would be a difficult player for us to secure without reaching because of our draft position.

This would be the nightmare scenario....

Colts take Luck

Rams stay at 2 (no one trades up)

Cleveland takes RGIII

We trade down to 10

Miami trades up to 9 and takes Tannehill

We would probably be left with taking that NT at 10 and then taking Foles or Weeden in the 2nd

[KCClybun]

That's not fair. People always make comparisons. When people project players they try to find a player that came before that they remind them of. Griffin's athleticism coming out of college is comparable to only the most athletically gifted QBs to ever play - Newton, Vick, Elway come to mind. Both Elway and Newton are bigger guys, 6'3"+ with bigger frames. Elway was a beast in his day, but Newton can do things that John could never. Both Griffin and Vick have similar measurables (6"-6'1" 215-220) and a similar build as far as body proportion. Vick is rumored to have a bigger arm. Both are playmakers. Both are elusive in the pocket but Vick is more "make you miss" as you said. That right there is probably the best comparison you'll find of RGIII that has played in the NFL. If you have a list of players that compare better, please divulge. Steve McNair and Steve Young definitely doesn't have the same physical attributes.

When people earlier in this thread say that Tannehill reminds them of Campbell are they all taking into account all of the following factors: "attitude wise, skillset wise, arm strength wise, IQ wise, work ethic wise"? I highly doubt it. If you break it down to that level no prospect will be like any other player that has come before them. Yet people continue to make comparisons to help them project what a player is capable of.

As a minority myself I've found that if you have little faith in others and look for race/skin color to play a role, you'll probably find something -- even when they really don't.

There were three guys Cam Newton got compared to constantly; Michael Vick, Vince Young, and JaMarcus Russell. No one I can remember made the connection to John Elway. I myself thought he reminded me of a more athletic Big Ben with a bigger arm. But when you look back, you'll see large swaths of people who compared Cam Newton to those three guys; Vick, Young, and Russell. Over and over and over again. And the only thing that Cam had in common with them from a pure physical standpoint was that he was black and had "character issues", and they were black and had character issues.

I'm not looking for race and color to play a role, I'm just noticing it. I stand by my point I made earlier; if everything about Robert Griffin III was exactly the same, but he looked like Matt Barkley, then most of the arguments about Griffin would be null and void. There'd be more people willing to trade up. He'd be getting compared with Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers. His athleticism would be heradled and his upside would be trumpted, ore people would be ready to get him. Not everyone, but more people.

But making the Vick/RGIII comparison smacks of laziness to me. The main things they have in common are 1.) skin tone, 2.) they're roughly the same height. (Though Vick is closer to 5'11" than he is to 6'1" and RGIII's closer to 6'2" and 3.) they run. Everything else, from the intangibles and the character, to the numbers in college, to being run-first vs. pass-first, to the offenses they played in, from a raw arm strength standpoint, mechanically how they throw the ball, how they run the ball...is different.

I don't say this lightly or like it's something I just thought of. I've pretty much noticed it since the end of the season, while the entire Barkley/RGIII debate was raging. I'm a minority as well, but it's hard not to notice it when you all day long you've got people comparing two people who are not a whole helluva a lot a like.

[GaryGreenMonk]

Brock did NOT look good at all. Wow..

Brock is terrible. I really don't get all the analysts and people calling for him to go in the 1st.

One guy was even trying to say Brock was the 3rd best QB. People lost their minds if they think that guy is any good.

[Truant]

Griffin is 6'2, maybe 6'2.5. Vick is 6'0 (generously) and 210. Vick was a poor passer in college, Griffin was a dominant passer in college. Vick and Griffin are nowhere near each other as far as intangibles go. That's why it's bothering people, because they literally have nothing in common EXCEPT "black QBs who can run".

The Baylor media guide lists him as 6-feet-2, which is great ... except it might be generous. Scouts want to know if he's closer to 6-feet, which is what one GM told me he's hearing.

Based on size, weight, speed, and general athletic prowess I can see how these two are grouped together. At least I don't think it's necessary to throw the race card.

[MartinC]

we'd have to pry Tannehill from the Dolphins if we wanted him I think. Which would mean probably reaching for him at 6.

Tannehill played under Mike Sherman at Texas A&M... Mike Sherman is the Dolphins new OC.

The Dolphins also publically stated that they have no intention of resigning Chad Henne, which leaves only Matt More with 1 more year on his contract on their roster.

Let's see what the Dolphins do in free agency first - the connections to Green Bay through Philbin make Flynn a possible candidate for them at QB in free agency.

[Truant]

The Baylor media guide lists him as 6-feet-2, which is great ... except it might be generous. Scouts want to know if he's closer to 6-feet, which is what one GM told me he's hearing.

Based on size, weight, speed, and general athletic prowess I can see how these two are grouped together. At least I don't think it's necessary to throw the race card.

"Hey, what do you mean by 'these' guys?"

[SilkyDiamonds]

That's production vs. projection. Both played in different offenses and had different coaching philosophies in different conferences. Comparisons can also be made on physical attributes such as size, weight, athletic ability, etc. By those standards I can see those two players being grouped together.

By your post I could probably pull Colt Brennan or that kid from Houston's numbers and say they are more similar to RGIII -- when that clearly would not be the case.

Except for the part where ya know Colt Brennan had 267 total rushing attempts & 547yds in his career, and Griffin had 510 att and 2026yds rushing in his. Even then RGIII in his career threw as many Ints as Colt did as a senior.That and Griffin while not playing SEC defenses, wasnt playing San Jose St, UNLV, Fresno, New Mexico st etc etc. Griffin did it against u know, Texas, aTm, OkSt, Oklahoma. Teams that legitmately play for National titles year in and year out. So the guy put up Colt Brennan passing numbers, running back rushing numbers and did it in a major BCS conf. No I dont believe there are any comparisons we can make. Noone's ever done what the kid has done. Instead of comparing or trying to make him fit what makes us feel comfortable, how about we treat him for what he is, the evolution of the mobile quarterback. he wont be the last but there is noone we can compare to that makes legit sense.

[MartinC]

There were three guys Cam Newton got compared to constantly; Michael Vick, Vince Young, and JaMarcus Russell. No one I can remember made the connection to John Elway. I myself thought he reminded me of a more athletic Big Ben with a bigger arm..

We did a series of threads last year on the various QBs called 'Closer Look' in which a couple of us did break downs of some game film and some analysis of the QBs. The comparison I made for Cam Newton in the break down I did of him was Big Ben.

I don't see a comparison between RGIII and Mike Vick. Vick has developed over the last couple of years as a passer but when he came out he was a guy whose game was based around his athletic ability and play making outside the pocket. In comparison RGIII is a much more developed passer operating from the pocket. He looks to work from the pocket unless it's a called play to get him outside and only uses his athletic ability when his protection or the play breaks down. When he does get outside the pocket he is still looking pass first run second he really is not the classic athletic one read and run QB, he is a passer who happens to be very very athletic.

[Truant]

Instead of comparing or trying to make him fit what makes us feel comfortable, how about we treat him for what he is, the evolution of the mobile quarterback. he wont be the last but there is noone we can compare to that makes legit sense.

I said based on the stats you posted. You only posted passing stats.

Because it won't happen. In an effort to project people make comparisons. It's why analogies are so prevalent. I didn't make the Vick comparison but I can see why others might. Just speaking physically (size, weight, speed, agility) who could you compare RGIII to? You might say he's the best athlete to ever touch a football so there is no comparison, I would say that Vick is a possibility and it would have nothing to do with skin color.

If you don't believe in comparisons, fine. Not sure why you'd get worked up when others make them. Don't put any stock into them and move on -- the result is still the same.

[SilkyDiamonds]

Noone's worked up, but the Vick to RGIII comparison is lazy and misinformed. Garbage in Garbage out right? Vick as its been said is closer to 5'11 than 6'3. Griffin is closer to 6'3 than 5'11. In order for us to have a healthy discussion we should view the players we talk about through accurate lenses. If comparing him to Vick makes you happy, than as you said to me lol dont get so worked up about it when its shown that outside of the immediately identifiable they arent alike. I handicap college football games for a living so I tend to watch players, teams, confs with a very scrutinizing eye. Having watched both college careers of Vick & RGIII (amongst countless others), I can only deduce that people that make that comparison havent watched them both.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I said based on the stats you posted. You only posted passing stats.

Because it won't happen. In an effort to project people make comparisons. It's why analogies are so prevalent. I didn't make the Vick comparison but I can see why others might. Just speaking physically (size, weight, speed, agility) who could you compare RGIII to? You might say he's the best athlete to ever touch a football so there is no comparison, I would say that Vick is a possibility and it would have nothing to do with skin color.

If you don't believe in comparisons, fine. Not sure why you'd get worked up when others make them. Don't put any stock into them and move on -- the result is still the same.

Griffin is 2-3 inches (the 6'0 crap is silly to anyone who's actually done their homework, he looks barely shorter than Luck) taller than Vick, and about 10-15 pounds heavier. He has a different running style. And while Vick had talent throwing the ball, Griffin, while not quite as polished as Luck or even Tannehill, is well ahead of Vick in the fundamentals department.

[Truant]

Noone's worked up, but the Vick to RGIII comparison is lazy and misinformed. Garbage in Garbage out right? Vick as its been said is closer to 5'11 than 6'3. Griffin is closer to 6'3 than 5'11. In order for us to have a healthy discussion we should view the players we talk about through accurate lenses. If comparing him to Vick makes you happy, than as you said to me lol dont get so worked up about it when its shown that outside of the immediately identifiable they arent alike. I handicap college football games for a living so I tend to watch players, teams, confs with a very scrutinizing eye. Having watched both college careers of Vick & RGIII (amongst countless others), I can only deduce that people that make that comparison havent watched them both.

Read my post again. I explicitly said that I didn't compare him to Vick. So no, a comparison of RGIII to Vick doesn't make me happy. I just think that the comparison isn't necessarily because they have the same skin color.

[RiggosMohawk]

I posted some comments about this in the RG3 thread, but given the 3 Amigos are the title of this thread, I'd suggest everybody watch whatever film you can of each of these three playing against their best common opponent - OkSt.

You should never base a decision off one piece of data, but I found it very interesting to see their successes and mistakes that each had against OSU.

[Truant]

Griffin is 2-3 inches (the 6'0 crap is silly to anyone who's actually done their homework, he looks barely shorter than Luck) taller than Vick, and about 10-15 pounds heavier. He has a different running style. And while Vick had talent throwing the ball, Griffin, while not quite as polished as Luck or even Tannehill, is well ahead of Vick in the fundamentals department.

Can you send me the links to the size/weight information you're talking about? It's very difficult to have an accurate gauge of college player heights and weights. This is why our scouting department hired a 3rd party company to obtain more accurate height/weight figures. Wikipedia, while not the end all be all of scouting (to say the least), has them 5lbs apart. This link suggests RGIII might be closer to 6 foot tall.

I'm not saying he is 6 foot, I've never met the guy. That link is what I read so I'd be interested to see any more accurate links because school websites are known to be inaccurate (hence us hiring that scouting service [bLESTO]).

[Mahons21]

Why are people getting so worked up over this Michael Vick comparison? It's a fairly accurate comparison, it doesn't mean they have everything in common or that they're the same passer, all it means is that if you had to compare RG3 to a current NFL player he'd probably be closest to M Vick.

Both are;

-under-sized for the QB position (please don't get into who is taller I don't care) they're both under-

sized.

-they both possess freakish athletic ability at the QB position

-they both have very high velocity on their passes that seem almost effortless

-they both excel outside the pocket

-they both throw extremely well on the run

-they both pose a double threat

In all there is a lot more in common with these guys, that there are differences, it shouldn't be surprising nor upsetting that they're being compared. Furthermore, why is this a bad thing? Did we see Michael Vick a year ago? The guy took the NFL by storm, and was one of the most electrifying players in the NFL.

In addition why is a Cam Newton comparison to Young a bad thing? We're talking about physical skill sets here, and Young despite his recent decline in the NFL has one hell of a physical skill-set, he proved this in his first couple season in TEN when he continually led the Titans on 4th qtr comeback wins with both his feet and his arm. Young didn't succeed because of his mental make-up, which I've never seen compared to Cam.

This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the fact that these guys have similarities. I've never seen Cam compared to Jawalrus, and anyone who would do so obviously is ill informed.

[SilkyDiamonds]

U just described lol:

Pat White, West Virginia

Brad Smith, Missouri

Antwaan Randle El, Indiana

Joshua Cribbs, Kent St.

Kareem Wilson, Ohio

Eric Crouch, Nebraska

Chris McCoy, Navy

Beau Morgan, Air Force

Brian Mitchell La.-Lafayette

Tim Jefferson Air Force

Chris Leake, Florida

Charlie Ward, FSU

Denard Robinson, Michigan

Michael Bishop, KSt

Ell Roberson, Kst

[Mahons21]

U just described lol:

Pat White, West Virginia

Brad Smith, Missouri

Antwaan Randle El, Indiana

Joshua Cribbs, Kent St.

Kareem Wilson, Ohio

Eric Crouch, Nebraska

Chris McCoy, Navy

Beau Morgan, Air Force

Brian Mitchell La.-Lafayette

Tim Jefferson Air Force

Chris Leake, Florida

Charlie Ward, FSU

Denard Robinson, Michigan

Fine then compare him to Randle El if that makes you feel better.

It's as if you've never seen an NFL QB comparison before...

Usually when this is done, said player is a.) compared to an actual NFL QB not college players b.) compared to someone who actually played said position in this instance it's QB c.) for the most part back-up QBs in the NFL are not used in comparisons.

Just to make you happy though I'll add one more comparison, they're both projected to go to 5 as prospects.

EDIT: it's as if you guys wake up in the morning and need to argue about something. Comparing a prospect to an NFL player doesn't mean they're replicas of one another it means they have a lot of similarities. White QB prospects have comparisons made to them as well, and again it doesn't mean they're an exact replica of the NFL player. Sometimes a few inches will separate them, sometimes it will be arm-strength or accuracy, but for the most part the players will have a lot of similarities.