MSNBC - KHAAAAAAN! Should 'Trek' film bring back villain?

[The Evil Genius]

Here is my choice - Philip Rhys

He's young enough to go toe to toe with Chris Pine (Kirk). Plus, he wouldn't be the "star" playing the villain...so he could become Khan move convincingly. Remember, the entire Star Trek universe has been re-written with the ending of the first movie...so anything is possible.

http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/06/9248670-khaaaaaan-should-trek-film-bring-back-villain

KHAAAAAAN! Should 'Trek' film bring back villain?

By Gael Fashingbauer Cooper

He's "Star Trek's" most iconic individual villain, and the inspiration for one of the most famed one-word movie quotes in history. Ricardo Montalban made him famous. He's Khan Noonien Singh, best known as Khan, or, in Shatner-speak, "KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!"

Last week, a rumor began to circulate that Benicio del Toro would play Khan in the next "Star Trek" movie. Now New York Magazine's Vulture column says del Toro is out of the film over money issues.

But is Khan still in the running to be the villain, even if played by someone else? Hitfix contacted director and producer J.J. Abrams, who said "not true." Of course, this being "Star Trek," nothing is over until you hear the Klingon Death Scream. As Hitfix smartly points out, unless the new film, a sequel to the 2009 reboot, jumps waaaay far into the future, the events of the 1982 "Wrath of Khan" film aren't ready to happen.

MORE AFTER LINK

[Larry]

I've had the same wish for all of the Trek films.

I want the villains to be Klingons.

The TV series Klingons.

Background: The

Enterprise

TV show actually had a plot line that explained why the TV series Klingons looked different. Supposedly, the Klingons heard about the genetic engineering the humans did (the engineering that created Kahn, for example). And they experimented with it. They thought that the idea of a stronger, smarter, Klingon sounded like a Good Idea. And, well, the Human augments were more aggressive, more power hungry, well, that's not bad for a Klingon, either, is it?

Supposedly, the Klingons stole some samples of the Human augments. And produced genes that would produce similar results for Klingons. The Klingon augments were stronger, smarter, more aggressive than Klingons. (They also looked a lot more Human. They were working on that.)

They were also contagious. The Klingons used an engineered virus, to put the augment DNA into their Klingon test subjects. Well, the augment DNA turned out to be contagious. The augments escaped, and their "gift" was spreading throughout Klingon space.

In

Enterprise

, Dr. Phlox managed to produce a virus that would halt the augment process in the early stages. Infected Klingons looked a little more Human, and they got somewhat more aggressive, and the genes were still dominant. But they didn't all turn into the Klingon version of Kahn.

So, yeah, we could have the TV series Klingons.

Well, that's what I want. I want villains. I want bad guys who beam down to planets with agonizers on their belts, just in case they decide to torture something on the planet. (Or each other.) I want villains who like being evil. Who spout tough-guy lines while twirling their Fu Manchu mustaches.

And, as for the story?

I want a confrontation that's so epic, that Kirk will hate Klingons for the rest of his life. I want a story where every Klingon kid will go to bed at night fantasizing about what he would do, if he could get his hands on James T. Kirk.

Something that will make Kirk and the Klingons hate each other for 50 years.

And I think I've got one. At least an outline. When last we saw our Klingons, the "cheese grater" Klingons were being replaced, slowly but surely, by the TV series Klingons. The TV series Klingons are a little bit smarter, are more aggressive, and are regarded as diseased by the "real" Klingons.

Obviously, there's going to be a Klingon civil war. Of course they're going to fight each other. It's what Klingons do.

I'm thinking, Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise, hears that a bunch of Klingons are about to commit genocide against a small, outnumbered, minority group of Klingons.

Anybody think that James T. Kirk, the biggest meddler in the Universe,

won't

stick his nose into a Klingon civil war?

And the usual reaction that meddlers get, when they stick their nose into internal, family, disputes, is . . . ?

[No_Pressure]

Yeah, because if there's anything American movie-going audiences hate, its original plot lines with original characters. They couldn't possibly use the now completely wide open endless possibilities to send Kirk, Spock and McCoy on an exciting never before seen adventure (perhaps a Star Treky adventure that isn't just a bunch of action movie bs and has *gasp* a moral infused plot that forces the audience to question serious subjects.)

Nah, better stick with the action stuff. MORE PHASERS! Also Kirk can have a fistfight or something against his biggest enemy, Khan! Then the new Spock can further destroy the Nimoy character by acting like an emotional douchebag rather than the 95% emotionless Vulcan he was for the entire duration of Star Trek before the reboot. The plot can be about Khan. He's trying TO DESTROY SOMETHING! Or perhaps he's trying TO KILL KIRK! OHNOE!

Seriously, I enjoyed the Star Trek reboot as an action film, but as somebody who enjoys Star Trek (not to the extent of Trekkies by any means) I'm sad to see the franchise headed away from where it once was. Who remembers The Next Generation? I'm not talking about their BS movies where all the characters act erratically, especially Captain Piccard, I'm talking about the TV series where everybody had strong moral convictions and a lot of questions were raised and situations played out which obviously were talking about current issues we're facing right now. People react calmly to things and have evolved past stupid, destructive irrational thought...ah no **** it, LETS PUT MORE PHASERS INTO THE MOVIE!!! ALSO KIRK CAN KILL A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE AND WEIRD ALIENS AND STUFF!!!

Also, I don't mind your idea at all Larry. As someone who grew up in the 90's and was first introduced to Star Trek with The Next Generation, I was a bit perplexed when I watched the original series and noticed Klingons were basically a bunch of angry Indian people from outer space. I knew that Enterprise (which I cannot bring myself to watch ever) answered the question of why they looked like that, and it would make sense to incorporate it.

The ideal plot for me would generally be one of the classic mystery and suspense plots but we're gonna get action, action, and more action. STAR TREK HAS BEEN HYPER-CHARRRRGGGEEEDDDDDDDDD!

[FanboyOf91]

Yeah, because if there's anything American movie-going audiences hate, its original plot lines with original characters. They couldn't possibly use the now completely wide open endless possibilities to send Kirk, Spock and McCoy on an exciting never before seen adventure (perhaps a Star Treky adventure that isn't just a bunch of action movie bs and has *gasp* a moral infused plot that forces the audience to question serious subjects.)

Nah, better stick with the action stuff. MORE PHASERS! Also Kirk can have a fistfight or something against his biggest enemy, Khan! Then the new Spock can further destroy the Nimoy character by acting like an emotional douchebag rather than the 95% emotionless Vulcan he was for the entire duration of Star Trek before the reboot. The plot can be about Khan. He's trying TO DESTROY SOMETHING! Or perhaps he's trying TO KILL KIRK! OHNOE!

Seriously, I enjoyed the Star Trek reboot as an action film, but as somebody who enjoys Star Trek (not to the extent of Trekkies by any means) I'm sad to see the franchise headed away from where it once was. Who remembers The Next Generation? I'm not talking about their BS movies where all the characters act erratically, especially Captain Piccard, I'm talking about the TV series where everybody had strong moral convictions and a lot of questions were raised and situations played out which obviously were talking about current issues we're facing right now. People react calmly to things and have evolved past stupid, destructive irrational thought...ah no **** it, LETS PUT MORE PHASERS INTO THE MOVIE!!! ALSO KIRK CAN KILL A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE AND WEIRD ALIENS AND STUFF!!!

Also, I don't mind your idea at all Larry. As someone who grew up in the 90's and was first introduced to Star Trek with The Next Generation, I was a bit perplexed when I watched the original series and noticed Klingons were basically a bunch of angry Indian people from outer space. I knew that Enterprise (which I cannot bring myself to watch ever) answered the question of why they looked like that, and it would make sense to incorporate it.

The ideal plot for me would generally be one of the classic mystery and suspense plots but we're gonna get action, action, and more action. STAR TREK HAS BEEN HYPER-CHARRRRGGGEEEDDDDDDDDD!

Thank you, J. J. Abrams, for bringing LOST's pointless graceless ****bath plotting into the Star Trek universe.

[PokerPacker]

while the klingon civil war thing could make for a good movie... its already been done by The Next Generation. I'm going to have to disagree with The-Rock to a bit on the reboot. I thought it did a good job of reintroducing us to the characters. With this next movie they have more of a chance move on to a more "authentic" Star Trek experience now that the scene has been set for the characters and how the universe has changed.

Now if we're gonna look into something in Star Trek's past to give a good example of the things I'd like to see from this movie, it's gotta be Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. You've got action, suspense, betrayal, conspiracy, interstellar politics, and one may even argue that Chang may be a left-over TV Klingon (he's very aggressive, smart, and he's not all wrinkly).

[HailGreen28]

Sure, do Khan in the reboot. Just understand that "Space Seed" and "Wrath of Khan" will be VERY hard to measure up to. Especially WoK.

[Larry]

Actually, another idea for something that I think would be really dramatic?

Have an episode where Kirk is wrong.

Something where be blows up the primitives' computer God, and things don't work out in the end.

Wouldn't that shock the audience.

[No_Pressure]

while the klingon civil war thing could make for a good movie... its already been done by The Next Generation. I'm going to have to disagree with The-Rock to a bit on the reboot. I thought it did a good job of reintroducing us to the characters. With this next movie they have more of a chance move on to a more "authentic" Star Trek experience now that the scene has been set for the characters and how the universe has changed.

Now if we're gonna look into something in Star Trek's past to give a good example of the things I'd like to see from this movie, it's gotta be Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. You've got action, suspense, betrayal, conspiracy, interstellar politics, and one may even argue that Chang may be a left-over TV Klingon (he's very aggressive, smart, and he's not all wrinkly).

I don't think we're getting a more authentic experience, unless of course the future is full of frat boys. It always seemed to me that Star Trek was supposed to be portraying what Gene Roddenberry hoped the human race could become in the future- more intelligent, less rash and emotional. The members of The Original Series are supposed to be more contemplative and less rash or quick to snap judgments or decisions. The Next Generation seemed to be even further evolved. Rather than being the fist fighting rough and gruff Captain Kirk, Captain Piccard was a man of conviction, peace, and diplomacy.

It felt to me like the reboot had high school dropout Kirk and angsty teenager Spock shooting phasers at a bland assortment of bad guys. McCoy was pretty much unimportant to the plot outside of getting Kirk on the ship which is nothing like his original role in the series. Spock presented the pure heartless logic element, McCoy presented the compassionate, emotional human element, and Kirk weighed and balanced their personalities. I didn't get the feeling like the reboot Kirk was a smart and calculating star fleet officer like the Shatner Kirk. He seemed more like a member of the high school football team who jumped out of a spaceship in a special space suit and parachuted onto a platform firing a giant laser, getting into an exciting fistfight. Spock was angsty the whole time. I don't know how to elaborate on that very much, but the original Spock wouldn't talk to people in ****ty tones, he would talk in an emotionless and clear tone about everything, even if normal people would be angry or sad at that point in time. They overplayed the human element to Spock, and I don't buy the whole "he was young!" thing because it never showed up with the original cast, in fact Spock only started to become more human and sentimental in his old age after many years of friendship with humans.

Eh I have surpassed the area with which I'm comfortable discussing star trek character development. I don't want to start buying uniforms and going to conventions here

---------- Post added December-6th-2011 at 09:39 PM ----------

Actually, another idea for something that I think would be really dramatic?

Have an episode where Kirk is wrong.

Something where be blows up the primitives' computer God, and things don't work out in the end.

Wouldn't that shock the audience.

Kirk is never wrong, stop it with your original plot with early life lesson learning stories that properly round and develop a character, heretic!

[Thanos]

I hope the Eugenic Wars are shown.

[PokerPacker]

I hope the Eugenic Wars are shown.

The Eugenic Wars happened 15 years ago

[Thanos]

The Eugenic Wars happened 15 years ago

Shhhhh its JJ Abrams. The EW will become WW3 that destroyed most of Earth prior to "First Contact". Econ ( Eastern Coalition vs The West).

[Larry]

Just showed up on Facebook:

[HailGreen28]

Actually, another idea for something that I think would be really dramatic?

Have an episode where Kirk is wrong.

Something where be blows up the primitives' computer God, and things don't work out in the end.

Wouldn't that shock the audience.

lol. They could have extrapolated that from a number of TOS episodes. A few "Kirk beams down, destroys supercomputer keeping the status quo in place, leaves place in shambles" episodes. Including a planet where WWIII is played out by computer instead of IRL. Kirk destroys their system, tells them work it out or wipe each other out. Like that couldn't end badly.

Another one: Alien chick sleeps with Kirk, so his STDs can start a plague to help with population control on her planet. Rather than suggest emigration since they obviously have access to spaceships, Kirk eventually accepts his one-stand being a planet-wide "Typhoid Mary".

The Wrath of Khan was an example of a Kirk screw-up actually being played out. Kirk maroons bad guy on planet. Planet's orbit changes. Bad guy gets loose because nobody checks up on bad guy's status.

[PokerPacker]

Shhhhh its JJ Abrams. The EW will become WW3 that destroyed most of Earth prior to "First Contact". Econ ( Eastern Coalition vs The West).

I would prefer to see the Federation at war with the Romulans or Klingons.

actually, now that I bring up Romulans, has the Federation seen Romulans other than the time-traveling ones in this timeline? In the Original Series, despite being at war with them, wasn't Balance of Terror the first time the Federation had actually truly seen them?

[No_Pressure]

I would prefer to see the Federation at war with the Romulans or Klingons.

actually, now that I bring up Romulans, has the Federation seen Romulans other than the time-traveling ones in this timeline? In the Original Series, despite being at war with them, wasn't Balance of Terror the first time the Federation had actually truly seen them?

Yeah because there was that whole plot line where Spock looked like the Romulans and that guy was all pissed because his forefathers fought in a war against the Romulans which was fought without ever even seeing each other and there was a shaky cease fire agreed upon.

[The Evil Genius]

Apparently, the Federation has a ship near Mercury right now.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mysterious-planet-sized-object-spotted-near-mercury-154443870.html

[The Curious One]

I seriously hope that they do NOT use Khan in the next movie. Do something original.

People (the fans) have been speculating about Khan being in the next movie since the first one came out. JJ Abrahms and co. have never said anything about who or what the next villian will be.

[PokerPacker]

Yeah because there was that whole plot line where Spock looked like the Romulans and that guy was all pissed because his forefathers fought in a war against the Romulans which was fought without ever even seeing each other and there was a shaky cease fire agreed upon.

I"m not quite sure what you're saying here :/

[No_Pressure]

I"m not quite sure what you're saying here :/

I'm saying exactly what I wrote, you were correct in what you said, Balance of Terror was the first time the federation ever saw the Romulans, and part of the story was that the Romulans turn out to be an offshoot of Vulcans which makes Spock look like the Romulans. One of the helmsman who hates the Romulans because his forefathers fought them in a war suspects Spock is somehow a Romulan spy among them. They mention in the episode that its the first time they're seeing each other because when Earth and Romulus were at war they didn't have the technology to see each other and fought with nuclear weapons in space.

[Bang]

Of all the plot possibilities, i'd be seriously disappointed if all they did was re-hash something they already got right.

~Bang

[PokerPacker]

I'm saying exactly what I wrote, you were correct in what you said, Balance of Terror was the first time the federation ever saw the Romulans, and part of the story was that the Romulans turn out to be an offshoot of Vulcans which makes Spock look like the Romulans. One of the helmsman who hates the Romulans because his forefathers fought them in a war suspects Spock is somehow a Romulan spy among them. They mention in the episode that its the first time they're seeing each other because when Earth and Romulus were at war they didn't have the technology to see each other and fought with nuclear weapons in space.

ah, gotcha. I wasn't really looking for confirmation that in TOS they hadn't seen them before, but rather wondering what exactly it means for the reboot. The timeline has been altered, so I don't know if the Romulans are still a mystery other than having seen the future Romulans (and of course Spock Prime's wisdom)

[No_Pressure]

ah, gotcha. I wasn't really looking for confirmation that in TOS they hadn't seen them before, but rather wondering what exactly it means for the reboot. The timeline has been altered, so I don't know if the Romulans are still a mystery other than having seen the future Romulans (and of course Spock Prime's wisdom)

They could be used if Spock, who worked with the Romulans in an episode of The Next Generation decides to try and open relations in the new timeline to avert their problems in the future. Other than that I suppose the Romulans won't go out of their way to meet the federation until they raid their outposts testing their new weapon in Balance of Terror.

I think the Klingons would make the best villains for the next movie. Old style Klingons at that, keeping with the canon which was established to explain differences in makeup budgets to distraught trekkies. It would be cool to explore just why Kirk is so infamous to the Klingons in the original series. What things he might have done when he was younger both to earn his heroic reputation among the federation and his revered yet hated standing with the Klingons. They would need a plot where the stakes weren't super dire- you don't need something threatening to destroy earth every 15 minutes to get people to pay attention to a movie. They wouldn't need to have Kirk getting into a fight every 15 minutes. It would be nice to see A. a movie where the stakes are appropriate and not simply pushed to the maximum because the audience can't care about a character and support what they're doing unless they're saving everything that has ever existed ever, and B. Where Kirk starts moving into his role as a wiser, calmer, more rational strategist captain than one who wants to beam to the other ship so he can get into an exciting gun fight. Sure, Kirk beamed into dangerous situations every other episode in the original series, but it was usually out of ignorance or the desire to gain some knowledge or speak to someone. Rarely was it to get into an exciting fight of some sort.

Eh whatever we'll see what they give us. I'm not hopeful for a good star trek movie, but if I go see it and pretend I'm watching "Exciting Space Action Film" rather than "Star Trek II: This is the 2nd time we've made Star Trek II" then I'm sure it will be enjoyable for what it really is. Then I'll see something that references a gimmicky thing from the original series, such as tribbles and I'll go "aaa-haa!" in my head and almost smile for a second, then I'll frown and go back to pretending it isn't a star trek movie.

[PokerPacker]

Don't get me wrong, I love a good Klingon movie, but they've been integral in a good number of Star Trek movies, and there are so many other races out there that don't get much attention. I mean, they got a lot of attention in III, V, and VI. When's the last time we've seen the Gorn or the Tholians?

though if they did use the Klingons... any love for bringing back the Tribbles?

[88Comrade2000]

Eh I have surpassed the area with which I'm comfortable discussing star trek character development. I don't want to start buying uniforms and going to conventions here

---------- Post added December-6th-2011 at 09:39 PM ----------

Yeah, you don't know who you may see at those conventions.

I don't want anymore ties to the past. The movie plot allowed them to completely break away from what they did under Roddenberry and Berman. I trust them to create a good script that should be entertaining.

[No_Pressure]

Yeah, you don't know who you may see at those conventions.

I don't want anymore ties to the past. The movie plot allowed them to completely break away from what they did under Roddenberry and Berman. I trust them to create a good script that should be entertaining.

Is that a picture of you meeting a cardboard cutout of Patrick Stewart?!