Simple question, not so simple answer

[Buddha]

Who is currently the most hated (or at least disliked) Redskin player and/or coach on the team???

About 6 weeks ago, it would be easy to produce a laundry list of responses to this question (Bruce, Shade, Banks, Jeff George, anyone with the last name Schottenheimer). He11, even in the best of times during the Norval years people could come up with at least 3 or 4 names (Deion, LeCharls, Whipping Boy Matt Stevens, Stanley Richard, Dead Arm Johnson).

Try to now. Just one name.

And Donovan Greer doesn't count.

[Mickalino]

I know what EVERYONE ELSE will say - Stephen Alexander.

I'll say Central McClellion. Because I hate his name. It just aint a football name. And because he's the only corner we have that can't handle man coverage.

Okay, I can't say just one.

Matt Campbell, Donnell Bennett.

[ by Mick on November 27, 2001.]

[Buddha]

I don't know if you can hate or even dislike Alexander after watching him try to play injured against the Eagles. There would have been no shame in him sitting out one more game to finish healing up, but he strapped it on anyway and tried to contribute in a crucial game. He gained some measure of respect from me for just getting on the field.

I'm pretty much neutral on Campbell-- hated him as a starter but like having him as the first veteran off the bench to play most of the line positions. Bennett isn't much of an offensive threat, but you have to credit him in helping open holes for Davis and Carter these past few weeks.

And Central McClellion-- how can you hate a guy that isn't even supposed to BE here???

[NavyDave]

Campbell and when activated the great corner who was going to push DarrelGreen to the 4th CB spot

[Art]

It's tough hating a guy that's injured, but I'm up to the task. I hate Matt Campbell. I was moderately happy with his signing as a guy who can play around the line, but, this guy is a dog. He brings little inside and he's not capable at left tackle. I didn't have flattering things to say about him in a game preview I wrote a year ago against Carolina, and, I guess I was more right than I knew .

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Doom is in the box.

[Darth Tater]

Originally posted by Buddha:

And Central McClellion-- how can you hate a guy that isn't even supposed to BE here???

Because Mick went to West McClellion High!

[ by OPM on November 27, 2001.]

[bulldog]

The player I get most annoyed at is Sam Shade, although he is a 100% effort guy so I don't hate him.

My choice is a popular one these days - Stephen Alexander. While it is true his ankle sprain may be more severe than LaVar's was, the reality is he is a guy that ends up on the shelf each season for a stretch of games. Either that or he plays with an injury but is so reduced in effectiveness as to render him a mere decoy.

Durability is a key factor in a team's success. If the best players don't consistently show up to play, a team can't improve or take that next step. We have been waiting years for Alexander and Westbrook to step up and have back to back healthy productive seasons. It just hasn't happened.

Some guys like Bruce Matthews or Darrell Green weave their way to a 19 year career avoiding major injuries. Others such as a Lawrence Taylor or seemingly a young LaVar Arrington get hurt but have a high threshold for pain and remain in the lineup and remain effective.

Either way you slice it, Stephen Alexander is a soft player. He isn't going to make anyone forget Mark Bavaro or Dave Casper. He doesn't have the physical bearing to stand up to getting hit by safeties around the NFL. One year he got knocked out by John Lynch and in another year by Brian Dawkins of the Eagles. Both times he failed to get back up.

Over time, you start to develop a rep around the league for being a guy who can't stand up to the punishment and then it really becomes open season.

Remember Brian Davis? The Redskins took him as a #2 draft choice, a guy with 4.4 speed at corner. He showed real promise his rookie season before getting hurt. Then he got hurt again the following season. After he missed another 4 games with a hamstring strain in his 3rd season, Gibbs had to let him go.

The lesson? The parking meter is running all the time on potential. At some point you have to come through and produce.

[mardi gras skin]

I don't TRUST Bruce Smith. The obnoxious attitude that he showed when things were going bad sickened me. Comparing his "leadership" with Arrington's through the first 4 games was night and day. I look forward to replacing him when the season is over.

[Henry]

Sorry, but NONE of those guys is a Matt Stephens, LeCharles, Ron Lynn, Mike Nolan, Shar Pourdanesh, Sterling Palmer, Rod Stephens, etc.

At this point there is really noone on this team you stop and think 'Does he have photos of the Coach and Snyder in the shower together or somehing? Why the heck does he keep sticking around?'

Alexander, Campell and Smith are serious reaches compared to those guys. That says a lot about the difference between this year's team and the teams of the past eight years.

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"Men, there's nothing to get excited about. The situation is normal; we are surrounded."

[bulldog]

well, I think you have a couple of things coming together at once here. One is that Marty showed by cutting Jeff George that nobody is untouchable. The other is that after the players/coaches meeting and the determination of some of the guys like Lang and Arrington not to let the season get flushed down the toilet, I don't think a player voicing negative sentiments would now be supported by anyone else on the team.

[National Defense]

i agree with henry--you can't really HATE any of these guys.

we also shouldn't rip alexander for getting injured often--we should rip his inconsistency. the dropped TD in the chiefs game (and many others over the years) lead me to believe that we'll be seeing several new guys in camp next year.

however, none of these guys compares to deion--who i just couldn't stand period, and was especially pissed when we signed him.

[fish]

Yep,

I concur with those that say.......Nobody.

We FINALLY have a team that is making us proud. The habitual, obgliatory fold, mistake, penalty turnover or total no-show just hasn't reared it's ugly head. As Boswell wrote, we have become A PROFESSIONAL looking team.

All of the potential guys on the list are all trying VERY hard and are sometimes just asked by the coaching staff to do things they are not capable of; like Shade covering HUGE TEs.

Even Westbrook is finally looking like a grown up.

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HAIL

[bulldog]

of course it helps Westbrook's attitude when you throw him the ball a few times each week........................

Westbrook is a troubling player. He makes plays and snookers you into counting on him and then he rips your heart out by showing inconsistency or getting injured.

He seems to have become a larger part of the offense the past two weeks and I see that trend continuing.

When you have a 6'3 receiver who runs a 4.4 and you can establish him deep, defenses are distracted from making the bread and butter plays at the line of scrimmage in the running game.

[Ignatius J.]

I think he's showing more than that bulldog. What he's done in the last two games is become a posession receiver, and I think that position is more important to the offense than the deep threat. As a deep threat a receiver rarely makes the clutch plays that keep a drive going. That has been the second biggest knock on westy, that he couldn't catch on third down or when we really needed it.

Over the past two games we've seen westy run the shorter routes to get open quick, make the catch and get a first.

If he can keep doing that, there's a place for him in this offense.

-DB

[SonnyJ]

Now if only Banks would look his way more often...

[Romo]

Just a note in Peter King's Monday Morning QB he mentioned Central McClellion and said it was the best name in the NFL.

There are several other skins comments as well.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/peter_king/news/2001/11/26/mmqb/

[Montilar]

I will be ripped for it. But if I could upgrade ONE position, and one only it would be QB (Tony Banks). yes, he's been the team player and with a year in the offense he could pull a Gannon or Testeverde type resurrection.

But I still think he's comparable to Frerotte. He will get you going for him, thinking he's gonna do it, then break your heart. It may be a return of fumbilitis, it may be the "deer in the headlight look", but he's never gonna be more than a servicable QB.

Don't get me wrong, a servicable QB can win the super bowl. Ryp did it. Dilfer did it. Heck collins got the Giants there. But I'm NOT sold on Banks.

I didn't want George. I didn't want Peeon. I didn't want Banks. To be truthful, I didn't like Thiesmann and his ****y attitude either. But he was a skin and got the job done in Gibb's system.

[indyskinsfan]

Ironic this thread there Buddha, but nevertheless I will respond, since I am so bone-headed.

I see it in a sense like bulldog, I am angry at times at Alexander, Westbrook for the reason of some-timieness, if that's a word and the fact you see something that baits or hooks you and the next week, WTF!!!!!

So it is more an annoyance than a "hate" and as for Sam Shade, maybe they've found out something that makes this guy tick, like how Richie Pettibone got the most out of Brad Edwards. Let's hope it "sticks" if you know what I mean.

Now Watch all of them have a monster game

<FONT COLOR="Yellow">GO SKINS!!!!</FONT c>

[ by indyskinsfan on November 28, 2001.]

[All In]

Actually it looked like they went to Westbrook in the game. It's not that Tony Banks needs to look for him more, Jimmy Raye needs to call his number more. Banks tends to throw to his first read, which isn't bad as long as it's open. I think they did call Westbrook's number in the game as well as Gardners' evenly. On the last drive each received one pass.

I have complete confidence in THIS year's coaching staff. They are game planning very well. It's amazing what a competent proven coaching staff can do.

GO SKINS!!!

[Mickalino]

If Jimmy Raye is the one that is responsible for Westbrook's lack of passes thrown to, and not Banks, then why did we see a 180 degree turn in Westbrook's productivity the minute Kent Graham stepped in 2 weeks ago

[All In]

You're right Mick. What I think that happened is that the staff has realized that they need to get him the ball. Maybe after seeing the game film they decided to make an adjustment to their play calling. Maybe it took the performance we all saw at Denver. I think we'll see that adjustment to get him his fair share of balls. When was the last time you saw Westbrook drop a pass? He had some real nice snatches at Philly.

[Thinking Skins]

Whats that corner's name who was marty was so hype about saying that he would be competing for a starting spot, then he got beat so badly in the preseason and marty still said he was competing for a starting spot, then he played the first week and got injured on special teams? I'd say that he is teh most hated player on the team...

[OrangeSkin]

I really kind of like Alexander, as a person. He seems like a good player too, but he's not a good enough blocker to be a starter. Bring him off the bench as the second or third TE and start Flemister or Rasby. But, then again, it is kind of ironic that Alexander was a pro-bowler last year, and we're slamming him.

Speaking of Flemister, he's been playing great. It seems like that he's had more catches in the last couple of weeks than Alexander had in the five weeks which he actually played.

[jonjeff]

It's much harder to hate when your team is on a five game winning streak. I guess I would have to say Stephen Alexander. The job Flemister and Rasby have done in his absense leave me with the feeling of "who cares if he ever comes back". Alexander was a real disappointment early on before his injury. He will have to do something spectacular to get back on my good side. How about two TD catches this week against the Cowboys?