Yahoo: Assad predicts disaster if West meddles in Syria

[zoony]

Lets let the Swiss handle this one. TIred of the Middle East.

[nonniey]

No two ways about this, the President really screwed this up. The United States is now in a no win situation. Now what do we do? There is no support for military action in Congress, among our allies and more importantly among the public. If there is no effective military action (The President isn't even proposing effective action) it will undermine all efforts to prevent the future use of chemical weapons in Syria and the acquisition of nuclear weapons by other nations and heck even the use of those weapons (We have "redlines" on those issues too). In this COA the US credibility will be completely shot. If we do a limited strike (which the President is proposing) it will almost certainly be ineffective, will have the same effect as no strike and the increased risk of widening the conflict. If we act in a robust military effective way, we don't have support to sustain it which will mean a likely eventual defeat, it risks widening the conflict even further, restarting the Cold War (Although the President has been stumbling toward that for a couple of years now) and we can't afford it. That ladies and gentlemen is what I call gross incompetence.

So our COA's

# 1 No action = Humiliation expanded use of Chemical weapons in Syria and Iran and other countries now totally ignoring the US and international community when it comes to the acquisition of Chemical, Biological and Nuclear Weapons.

# 2 Limited Action = Humiliation expanded use of Chemical weapons in Syria and Iran and other countries now totally ignoring the US and international community when it comes to the acquisition of Chemical, Biological and Nuclear Weapons. Increased risk of expanding the war to other countries in the Middle East.

#3 Robust action designed to dissuade the use of WMDs = Will reinforce that the US is serious about Redlines; greatly increased risk of expansion of conflict internationally; Significant risk of turning frosty relations with Russian and China into a reignited Cold War (Heck this could even be a Guns of August situation); Risk a likely defeat in Syria due ascendance of other US enemies to power in Syria (ie extreme Islamic elements).

COA #3 is the only option that allows for success but the downside to that option is just too great (in a Black analogy it would be like doubling down on a 16 in Blackjack against a dealer face, while knowing that all the low cards but a single two are already out of the deck. Your hope is to get the last two card and hope the dealer has a 17.

I guess COA #1 is our best bet. It is the least worst option and I really hate it since it seems to be completely immoral as Syria will then increase the use of chemical weapons (IE we will be standing by doing nothing as a brutal dictator massacres men, women, and children with these weapons). Additionally this COA gives a green light to ignore US ultimatums/Redlines. (In a Black Jack situation this is a surrender).

[twa]

Lets let the Swiss handle this one. TIred of the Middle East.

or the Saudis and Turks, of course the whole ME could erupt.

 

the UN is a disgrace 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Lets let the Swiss handle this one. TIred of the Middle East.

 

I'm over it too. I liked the JQA quote earlier in the thread and sometimes wish that was our stance. I wish we only swooped in when it was absolutely critical that we do so. We need to have a much smaller list of allies we support with no questions asked. I'm sure there are reasons that my opinion is wrong, but that's how I feel. 

[KuNiT21]

Sick of hearing about the Middle East....it's time for the US to stand down and let the events unfold in the Middle East.  Sick and tired of sending our military/friends to places that DON'T want and AREN'T willing to change.  They will always have war in the blood, and terror.  Let them kill each other and I'm sorry if this sounds condescending but it's time to start worrying about ourselves.  Nobody gives a damn when the US has a terrorist attack and innocent woman and children are murdered in cold blood.  It's time we stay out of it and let other countries worry about it.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  If we strike Syria, I hope Mr. O is ready for WW3. 

[thebluefood]

I never thought I'd see the day, but it seems that the right and the left in this country can finally agree on something: stay out of Syria. Let's hope Congress agrees.

[GoSkins561]

Hopefully this doesn't pass, I hate how they are starting to say Syria is a threat to our National Security. 

 

 

 

 

Mike Rogers: ‘Congress will rise to the occasion’ and approve Syria strike

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/09/01/mike-rogers-congress-will-rise-to-the-occasion-and-approve-syria-strike/

 

“I think at the end of the day, Congress will rise to the occasion,”
Rogers said on CNN’s “State of The Union.” “This is a national security
issue. This isn’t about Barack Obama versus the Congress. This isn’t
about Republicans versus Democrats.”

 

 

[visionary]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324463604579044642794711158?mg=reno64-wsj.html?dsk=y

Elizabeth O'Bagy: On the Front Lines of Syria's Civil War

 

The conventional wisdom—that jihadists are running the rebellion—is not what I've witnessed on the ground.

 

With the U.S. poised to attack Syria, debate is raging over what that attack should look like, and what, if anything, the U.S. is capable of accomplishing. Those questions can't be answered without taking a very close look at the situation in Syria from ground level.

 

Since few journalists are reporting from inside the country, our understanding of the civil war is not only inadequate, but often dangerously inaccurate. Anyone who reads the paper or watches the news has been led to believe that a once peaceful, pro-democracy opposition has transformed over the past two years into a mob of violent extremists dominated by al Qaeda; that the forces of President Bashar Assad not only have the upper hand on the battlefield, but may be the only thing holding the country together; and that nowhere do U.S. interests align in Syria—not with the regime and not with the rebels. The word from many American politicians is that the best U.S. policy is to stay out. As Sarah Palin put it: "Let Allah sort it out."

 

In the past year, I have made numerous trips to Syria, traveling throughout the northern provinces of Latakia, Idlib and Aleppo. I have spent hundreds of hours with Syrian opposition groups ranging from Free Syrian Army affiliates to the Ahrar al-Sham Brigade.

 

The conventional wisdom holds that the extremist elements are completely mixed in with the more moderate rebel groups. This isn't the case. Moderates and extremists wield control over distinct territory. Although these areas are often close to one another, checkpoints demarcate control. On my last trip into Syria earlier this month, we traveled freely through parts of Aleppo controlled by the Free Syrian Army, following roads that kept us at safe distance from the checkpoints marked by the flag of the Islamic State of Iraq. Please see the nearby map for more detail.

 

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/views/news/middle-east/2013/09/01/Will-the-Turkish-military-join-the-Syria-campaign-.html

Will the Turkish military join the Syria campaign?

 

While the United States is making its final preparations to strike Syrian targets, as a response to its use of chemical weapons in a Damascus suburb last week, Turkey is bracing for the intervention it has long-called for to end the 13-year-rule of Bashar al-Assad.

 

At a time when Britain, the chief stalwart wartime ally of the U.S., is sidelined after a parliamentary vote that refused to clear the way for the British government to join a campaign against Syria, the U.S. needs more allies in a war that was said to be a “multilateral action.” Turkey’s role in this intervention, however, remains a mystery. Sources and indications suggest that Turkey will play a key role in bringing about the end of the Syrian regime both during and after the intervention.

 

U.S. President Barack Obama said on Saturday that he has decided to take military action against Syria that will be a limited, narrow action with “no boots” on the ground, avoiding an open-ended war. The intervention is expected to take place in two weeks as Congress will start debating the Syria campaign on Sept. 9. The kind of operation the U.S. is preparing to undertake in Syria, likely aided by the French navy, will involve less than four dozen targets in a very short timeframe.

 

Ankara is unhappy with the goal of the intervention, which is to send a signal to the Assad regime that the Western allies won’t leave the use of chemical weapons go unpunished. Turkey wants a fully-fledged military action in Syria in a bigger scale and scope that will put the regime on the brink of collapse and unleash an era of political process to normalize the country.

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/01/us-syria-crisis-iran-rafsanjani-idUSBRE98009S20130901?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Iranian agency drops Rafsanjani remarks critical of Syrian government

 

An Iranian news agency quoted former president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani as saying Syria's government had attacked its own people with chemical weapons, but later replaced the report with a different version that did not attribute blame for the raid.

 

The second version by the semi-official Iranian Labour News Agency reported him as saying on Sunday: "On the one hand the people of Syria are the target of a chemical attack, and now they must wait for an attack by foreigners."

 

In the earlier version, the quote was: "The people have been the target of a chemical attack by their own government and now they must also wait for an attack by foreigners."

In other remarks which were unchanged, Rafsanjani went on: "Right now America, the Western world along with some of the Arab countries are nearly issuing a clarion call for war in Syria - may God have mercy on the people of Syria," he said.

 

"The people of Syria have seen much damage in these two years, the prisons are overflowing and they've converted stadiums into prisons, more than 100,000 people killed and millions displaced," he added.

 

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/96415

France Keen on Syria Action despite U.S. Delay

 

French President Francois Hollande, who appears determined to launch imminent strikes on Syria, is hamstrung by the United States -- which has delayed taking action -- and growing domestic opposition to military intervention.

 

Hollande, who unilaterally intervened in Mali to prevent Islamists from proceeding south towards the country's capital, has repeatedly voiced his determination to "punish" President Bashar Assad's regime for alleged chemical weapons attacks on August 21.

 

France has been catapulted to the status of Washington's main ally in the Syria crisis after the British parliament in a shock move rejected plans for military action mooted by Washington.

 

But Paris risks being seen as the "trailer" to the American vehicle in case of an intervention, former French prime minister Francois Fillon warned over the weekend.

 

He said France should act "responsibly" and not follow anyone into an attack "even if they are our friends and allies, the Americans."

 

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/saudi-fm-urges-arabs-to-back-syria-opposition-on-strikes

Saudi FM urges Arabs to back Syria opposition on strikes

 

Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal on Sunday urged Arab countries to back calls by the Syrian opposition for strikes on the Damascus regime, ahead of an Arab League meeting on Syria.

 

Arab states must echo demands by the "legitimate" representatives of the Syrian people for "help from the international community to put an end to the bloodbath" in Syria, he said, referring to the opposition.

 

The Saudi foreign minister did not explicitly mention a call by US President Barack Obama to launch punitive strikes on Syria for allegedly unleashing chemical weapons on its citizens last month, which according to Washington includes Sarin gas and killed hundreds.

 

But he told a news conference in Cairo that the international community must stop "the aggression against the Syrian people before these people perish".

 

http://atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/syria-the-congressional-angle?utm_content=bufferb8a6c&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer#.UiNsdU1rNSZ.twitter

Syria: A Mystifying Lack of US Preparedness

 

The decision of President Barack Obama to seek congressional approval for US military strikes in Syria is constitutionally sound, but strategically appalling. By not making it clear from the outset of the crisis that he would seek the approval of the Senate and House for a military response to the Assad regime’s chemical atrocity, the president’s jarring change of direction now runs the risk of thoroughly undermining whatever remains of allied confidence in his leadership. By not calling on Congress to return to Washington immediately the president conveys a sense of nonchalance that his newly discovered soaring rhetoric cannot disguise. Having taken a risk that is as profound as it is gratuitous, the administration would do well now to focus on that which it has avoided totally to date: creating and implementing an objectives-based strategy that would, among other things, employ sustained military strikes to destroy or significantly degrade the ability of Bashar al-Assad’s regime to commit mass murder in Syria.

 

The events of the past ten days suggest that there was no administration forethought to the possibility of a major chemical incident in Syria; there was no plan in place to respond to a major chemical attack by a regime that had already demonstrated its deep and abiding contempt for the president and his red lines. The results of this mystifying lack of preparedness have been abysmal. Secretary of State John Kerry responded quickly with a very convincing replica of presidential leadership, making a strong case for the inadmissibility of the regime’s action and the crying need for a strong American and Western response. Over the next few days Kerry’s clarity was blurred repeatedly by statements emanating from the White House and Pentagon. What effect this uncertain trumpet may have had on the shocking, disgraceful, yet understandable vote in Britain’s parliament is not known, but the spectacle of the secretary of state making the case while other senior officials temporized and agonized is not one to which historians will assign high grades in the annals of presidential leadership.

 

 

https://twitter.com/bbclysedoucet

Jordan govt spokesman says Jordan won't take part in any military action against Syria, won't join any US led "coalition of willing."
11:44 AM

 

Jordan Govt spokesman says Jordan waiting for results of UN investigation Ghouta
11:46 AM

 

Jordan Govt spokesman says Jordan won't allow its air space to be used for any strikes against Syria
12:14 PM

"will wait for the confirmed reports of the UN (on chemical weapons ) & will take  a position at that time " Jordan govt spokesman
12:23 PM

"No. The US govt has not been in touch" re joining possible military action Syria - surprising comment from Jordan Govt spox
12:31 PM

Jordan has been somewhat full of crap though, since they also said there were no US troops doing training exercises there, and there clearly were, among other things.

So what they say publicly may be quite different from what they do behind the scenes.

 

 

https://twitter.com/markito0171

Damascus Big battle now in Ruhhaybah: 50+ dead & 4 T-72 + 2 Shilka-tanks were destroyed Rebels captured 2 bases & partly brigade81
7:41 AM

 

Damascus Rebels destroyed 2 tanks in Zabadani at easter mountain side
8:15 AM

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/hhassan140

Saudi FM: unacceptable to say that international intervention is a violation of Syria's internal affairs.
1:34 PM

Saudi FM: We can say that Syria is an occupied land [by] Iran's revolutionary guard and Hizbollah and other militias.
1:35 PM

Saudi FM: The Syrian regime hasn't responded to international calls and it will NOT respond. Will we wait till it annihilate all the people?
1:36 PM

 

[visionary]

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/relief-in-damascus-as-syrians-mock-obama-the-coward

Relief in Damascus, as Syrians mock Obama the "coward"

 

"He who talks a lot doesn't act," said Souad, a Damascus resident, mocking US President Barack Obama as a "coward" for delaying a decision to attack the Syrian regime.

 

"Obama is a coward. He didn't strike because he knows that our President Bashar [al-Assad] is all-powerful," said the employee of nationality electricity firm Ferdaws, in the northeast of the capital.

 

In the wealthy neighborhood people went about their business without seeming too worried about the thuds from intermittent shelling of rebel positions outside the city center.

"I saw him, he was trembling like a leaf as he spoke, he seemed really troubled," said Azzam, leafing through a copy of the state newspaper Ath-Thawra.

 

Obama's unexpected speech was broadcast by Syrian state television and on Sunday many in Damascus shared Azzam's view that the president of the world's most powerful army decided not to act because he feared the reaction of Assad's allies, notably Iran.

 

"[The Iranians] really intended to strike Israel... and Obama backed down because he knew that in response [to US strikes on Syria] Israel would be wiped off the map," said Azzam.

I think the only ones outwardly scared of any strikes on Syria are the jihadists who have largely gone into hiding out of fear they'll be targeted instead of the regime.

[twa]

Letting the French slap Assad on the wrist seems a fine choice....if that is all that is planned they are capable

[SKINS@THEGOALLINE]

Letting the French slap Assad on the wrist seems a fine choice....if that is all that is planned they are capable

 

I guess "Freedom Fries" are out and "Vive La France!" is back in.

[visionary]

Letting the French slap Assad on the wrist seems a fine choice....if that is all that is planned they are capable

Sounds good, but I don't think they will go ahead without us. 

We may find out.

I'm not sure what their capabilities are when it comes to cruise missiles and such though.

 

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/01/us-syria-crisis-arabs-idUSBRE9800GJ20130901?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Arab states urge international action against Syrian government

 

Arab states on Sunday called on the international community to take action against the Syrian government over a chemical gas attack that killed hundreds of civilians.

 

The final resolution of an Arab League meeting in Cairo urged the United Nations and international community to "take the deterrent and necessary measures against the culprits of this crime that the Syrian regime bears responsibility for".

 

The Arab League foreign ministers also said those responsible for the attack should face trial, as other "war criminals" have.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/syrian-refugee-obama-lied-zaatari

Syrian refugee: 'Obama lied to us'

 

Across the camp, five miles inside Jordan, Syrian refugees gathered in small groups to listen to Barack Obama. Some watched on al-Jazeera TV, others tuned in to the radio, many followed on Twitter or online news sites. Expectations were high.

 

"We thought, when he began to speak, the strikes on Bashar al-Assad's regime were going to start immediately," said one refugee, Abu Assam. "Then he said 'but'." In Arabic "but" is "wa lakin", but in both languages the implication is the same. "It was when he said that word that everything came crashing down." He added: "Obama lied to us."

 

A member of the Free Syrian Army, who walks on crutches after an accident inside Zataari, Abu Assam said he immediately decided to cross the border back to Syria to rejoin the fighters on the other side, despite his injury. "I can fire a weapon on a pick-up truck," he said.

 

The Zaatari refugee camp is home to about 120,000 Syrians who have fled the war next door, the sound of which, on still nights, can be heard from across the border. The mood on Sunday was uniformly bleak. The news of the chemical attack in Damascus was devastating for those in the camp, said a UN official. Residents asked for no visits from journalists or dignitaries for three days. After that period of grief, amid all the tough talk by western leaders, refugees believed that something would be done to punish the Syrian regime.

 

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-325166-turkey-expects-coalition-of-willing-action-on-syria-despite-us-delay.html

Turkey expects coalition of willing action on Syria despite US delay

 

Turkey, not concealing its regret over the US delay in approving military action in Syria, continues to call on the international community to take urgent steps on Syria without waiting for a UN Security Council (UNSC) decision and the UN chemical inspections team's final report.

“We would prefer the international community not to show any hesitation in taking action against the desperate situation in Syria as it poses international and regional pitfalls. However we can only respect the US decision to consult its congress. Our primary expectation from the international community is its refusal to excuse the UNSC's inability to make a decision,” a Turkish official said after Obama stepped back from plans for a military intervention to seek approval from Congress.

 

Turkey, disappointed by the US move which will postpone any foreign intervention in Syria, has no other option than to wait for its allies to reach a decision as Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has stated: Turkey has decided to take common action with international actors.

 

In a televised address to the nation that was broadcasted on Saturday evening, Erdoğan said Turkey has decided to participate in a common action in Syria. Erdoğan suggested that there will be a “volunteers' coalition” for Syria, underlining that it is time for to take a step to stop the killings in war-torn Syria.

 

“We decided to act together in Syria where hundreds of thousands have been killed. That means that there might be a volunteers' coalition being established today. It is time to take steps now. It is time to stop the killings [in Syria]. It is time to take steps for those who adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to collaborate with those who adopted humanitarian values,” Erdoğan said, adding, “We will preserve our principled, firm and disciplined stance as we have been doing for 11 years.”

[GoSkins561]

Good, maybe Turkey and Israel should launch a few attacks on key targets instead of calling on the US.

[visionary]

Good, maybe Turkey and Israel should launch a few attacks on key targets instead of calling on the US.

Israel has been doing that without retaliation.   

We didn't like so much though I guess, because we kept exposing them when they did it.

I don't know why Turkey isn't doing more militarily.

I mean they have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees and house and support rebel leaders, but they have shied away from direct conflict.

But the US has to some extent held Turkey and other regional allies (Qataris and Saudis) back from doing more.

[GoSkins561]

Israel has been doing that without retaliation.   

We didn't like so much though I guess, because we kept exposing them when they did it.

I don't know why Turkey isn't doing more militarily.

I mean they have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees and house and support rebel leaders, but they have shied away from direct conflict.

But the US has to some extent held Turkey and other regional allies (Qataris and Saudis) back from doing more.

 

 

Yeah, I guess they took out a couple of missile launch sites last week, without warning, why not take out a few chemical weapons plants. 

[visionary]

http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/policy-and-strategy/319859-white-house-inviting-top-lawmakers-on-key-committees-to-meet-with-Obama

White House invites key committee chairmen to meeting with Obama

 

The White House has invited the chairmen and ranking members of six national security committees to meet with President Obama on Tuesday to discuss military action in Syria.

 

Top members of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, House Foreign Affairs Committee, House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Armed Services Committee have all been invited to meeting, according to a senior White House official.

 

The official said the meeting is part of a "flood the zone" strategy to build congressional support for military action.

 

President Obama said Saturday that while he had decided intervention in Syria is necessary, he is seeking congressional approval before moving forward.

 

On Sunday, administration officials briefed 70 lawmakers on the evidence that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has used chemical weapons against his own people, and the potential steps forward.

 

Following the briefing, however, many lawmakers remained skeptical of the need for military force and the evidence of the use of chemical weapons that was provided.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10279620/Pressure-on-Cameron-for-new-vote-on-Syria-strikes.html

Pressure on Cameron for new vote on Syria strikes

 

Lord Howard, a former Conservative leader, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, a former Foreign Secretary, and Lord Ashdown, a former Liberal Democrat leader, led calls to vote again on Sunday.

 

Sir Malcolm, the chairman of the intelligence and security committee, said the situation has “moved on dramatically now” and that the evidence is “becoming more compelling every day”.

 

In his Daily Telegraph column on Monday, Boris Johnson, the London mayor, also suggests another motion could be put “inviting British participation”. Mr Johnson, who has been highly sceptical of intervening in Syria, believes that Parliament has helped the international community by allowing a delay in the action for further evidence to be collected.

 

Signs of Labour disagreements over Ed Miliband’s response to the Syrian crisis were also beginning to emerge on Sunday.

 

Jim Murphy, the shadow defence secretary, became the first senior Labour figure to admit that the case against the Assad regime over last month’s chemical weapons attack was not in doubt.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/01/us-syria-crisis-carrier-idUSBRE9800IT20130901?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

Exclusive: USS Nimitz carrier group rerouted for possible help with Syria

 

The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz and other ships in its strike group are heading west toward the Red Sea to help support a limited U.S. strike on Syria, if needed, defense officials said on Sunday.

 

The Nimitz carrier strike group, which includes four destroyers and a cruiser, has no specific orders to move to the eastern Mediterranean at this point, but is moving west in the Arabian Sea so it can do so if asked. It was not immediately clear when the ships would enter the Red Sea, but they had not arrived by Sunday evening, said one official.

 

"It's about leveraging the assets to have them in place should the capabilities of the carrier strike group and the presence be needed," said the official.

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/markito0171

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzIk7vpo-nc

Damascus Video shows rebel-offensive in Qalamoun mountains -captured base & tanks http://wikimapia.org/#lang=de&lat=33.786567&lon=36.713562&z=12&m=b
5:00 PM

Apparently rebels started an extended offensive in northern & western countryside of Damascus Qualamoon  It is sustainable?
5:18 PM

 

DeirEzzor Defection of 19 soldiers in Jura neighborhood
5:29 PM

 

 

https://twitter.com/al_3ashg69

Dima was among at least 43 martyrs killed today in Rohiba after intense bombing by Assad’s forces.

pic.twitter.com/mGNU6pLqWh
7:44 PM 

 

https://twitter.com/minglishmuffin

I'm anti-war. That's why I think we need to act in Syria. FSA guys who took me into Syria are decent, secular, & committed to civil society.
7:47 PM

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=729775257049613&l=0b78111e5f

Local Cordination Committees in Syria

By the end of Sunday the coordination committees were able to document 118 martyrs including 13 children, 6 women, 3 under torture:

55 Martyrs in Damscus and its suburbs; 29 in Idlib; 9 in Aleppo; 7 in Daraa; 6 in Homs; 5 in Hama ; 5 in Deir Ezzor ; 2 in Lattakia

[thebluefood]

I will say this: if the UK is back on board with going into Syria, that might change my mind on the matter.

[visionary]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/syria-resolution-will-be-a-very-tough-sell-in-congress-lawmakers-say/2013/09/01/a7f8b97e-132a-11e3-880b-7503237cc69d_story_1.html

Syria resolution will be ‘a very tough sell’ in Congress, lawmakers say

 

The most difficult hurdle comes in the House, which has been incapable this year of approving what in the past were considered perfunctory measures. The farm bill, usually a bipartisan celebration of agriculture policy, failed in late June.

 

Compounding the troubles is that the debate on Syria comes just as Congress is poised to renew the fiscal showdown with Obama on federal spending and raising the debt limit so the Treasury does not default.

 

The Syria deliberations will not fall along the normal ideological fault lines. Obama cannot count on the near-universal support he usually has among the 201 House Democrats, a caucus in which doubts are plentiful.

 

Aware of the growing bloc of Republican isolationists, senior GOP aides warned Sunday that a large number of Democrats will have to support the use-of-force resolution for it to have any chance. Advisers in both parties described the measure as a “vote of conscience” that House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) will not be lobbying lawmakers to support.

 

Obama’s allies said the first order of business will be to work with the administration to redraft the resolution, which was sent to Capitol Hill on Saturday night and barely filled one page. It had no prescriptions for what type of military action could be carried out or its duration.

Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), a former Senate staffer who inspected chemical weapons attacks by Saddam Hussein’s government against its own citizens in Iraq in the 1980s, said he will push to add language that would limit the length of the mission and prohibit putting U.S. troops on the ground in Syria.

 

Such provisions could gain support from lawmakers who want to rein in the Obama administration, without hampering the goals of the mission — which the president has said should be limited to missile strikes against military targets.

 

Two key Obama allies, Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), are slated to meet with White House officials Monday, following their criticism this weekend that the president should be calling for a more expansive attack on Assad’s forces to help push him out of power.

[GoSkins561]

I will say this: if the UK is back on board with going into Syria, that might change my mind on the matter.

 

The end result is still a poop storm.

[twa]

Sounds good, but I don't think they will go ahead without us. 

We may find out.

I'm not sure what their capabilities are when it comes to cruise missiles and such though.

the French have cruise missiles and other systems easily equal to slapping his wrist.

as far as congress trying to micro manage thru a AUMF THAT is pure idiocy, a time limit is fine

[visionary]

the French have cruise missiles and other systems easily equal to slapping his wrist.

Hmm, I wouldn't be opposed to letting France do it themselves, if they're willing, and we gave some sort of background/diplomatic/intel support. 

They did all right in the Ivory Coast and Mali without us (although they had UN authorization in IC and both included boots on the ground).

That said the administration seems pretty committed to doing something at this point anyway.

I can't guess how pissed off Kerry would be after all the speeches and interviews he'll have given.

[thebluefood]

The end result is still a poop storm.

Yeah, but at least it isn't just us going alone. If the UK turns around on this issue, I imagine the rest of Europe might follow suit. France is already itching to go and from what I understand, Germany is waiting to see what the rest of the west is going to do. I'm not sure if there are any other EU nations in any condition to send troops to fight Assad.

 

Also, if the UK goes, will the other Commonwealth nations (i.e. Canada, Australia, etc.) follow suit?

[visionary]

Yeah, but at least it isn't just us going alone. If the UK turns around on this issue, I imagine the rest of Europe might follow suit. France is already itching to go and from what I understand, Germany is waiting to see what the rest of the west is going to do. I'm not sure if there are any other EU nations in any condition to send troops to fight Assad.

 

Also, if the UK goes, will the other Commonwealth nations (i.e. Canada, Australia, etc.) follow suit?

Australia has offered "moral support", lol.  Not sure what else though. 

But the likely PM winner there in the next few days election is the conservative opposition leader who has called Syria "baddies vs baddies" (which he got a lot of heat for apparently) and seems set against any involvement.

I don't know when he would take over though.

 

 

To make matters worse, the Gulf countries seem pretty pissed off now.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/time-to-end-tragedy-in-syria-arab-league-told#page1

"Obama threw a wrench in everything. The decision took a lot of people by surprise," said Abdullah Al Shayji, head of political science at Kuwait University. "It will send the wrong message to the Syrian leadership and to Iran and Hizbollah, who already think that Obama is not really serious about this strike."

 

Before the announcement, several Gulf countries had argued in private for more assertive intervention in Syria and had been expected to push for a strong resolution in Cairo - perhaps even one that could have fulfilled Mr Obama's request made on Saturday for allies to "stand publicly behind" US action.

 

The Gulf Cooperation Council under-secretary general made the most explicit case so far for military intervention yesterday, saying that Syria warrants invoking the "Responsibility to Protect", a UN-endorsed doctrine that allows for international intervention when a country fails to provide - or intentionally denies - security to its citizens.

 

"The Syrian regime is acting as a sectarian militia supported by like-minded Hizbollah and Iranian forces, and unbound by rules of war or civilised behaviour," Abdel Aziz Aluwaisheg wrote in Saudi Arabia's Arab News. "It has become incompressible while the international community has yet to move to protect Syrians from annihilation."

Analysts say Gulf countries may now be less likely to publicly support US military action, if and when it comes.

 

"There won't be any GCC initiative or participation in any military exercise - as a result of or substitute for - or even in conjunction with - US military action. The delay is looked upon from many corners of the world that there is a weakness in the US position," said Kuwait University's Mr Al Shayji.

 

[visionary]

http://brown-moses.blogspot.be/

Chemical Weapons Specialists On Claims Linking Rebels To Chemical Attacks in Damascus

This week there's been a lot of discussion about an article written by veteran journalist Dale Gavlak and Yahya Ababneh which claims the Syrian opposition in Damascus were behind the chemical attacks in Damascus on August 21st after an accident with Saudi supplied chemical weapons.

I've asked a number of chemical weapons specialists for their opinion on the claims made in the article.

 

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/syria/france-give-lawmakers-proof-regime-behind-chem-attack-afp-reports

France to give lawmakers proof regime behind chem attack: AFP reports

 

France will hand over evidence to lawmakers on Monday proving President Bashar al-Assad's regime was behind the August 21 chemical weapons attack in Syria, a government source told AFP news agency.

 

It will be a set of evidence of different kinds that will allow the regime to be clearly identified as responsible for the August 21 chemical attack," the source said.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/02/us-syria-conflict-russia-ships-idUSBRE98104O20130902?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=992637

Russia sends spy ship to Mediterranean: Interfax

 

Russia is sending a reconnaissance ship to the eastern Mediterranean, Interfax news agency reported on Monday, as the United States prepares for a possible military strike in Syria.

 

The reconnaissance ship Priazovye left Russia's naval base in the Ukrainian Black Sea port of Sevastopol late on Sunday on a mission "to gather current information in the area of the escalating conflict," the report quoted an unidentified military source as saying.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/02/opinion/global/forcing-obamas-hand-in-syria.html?smid=tw-share

Forcing Obama’s Hand in Syria

 

For the past two years the Obama administration has resisted entanglement in Syria, but now this grisly civil war has become an unavoidable international problem and a defining moment for American foreign policy.

 

Having concluded “with high confidence” that the Syrian government carried out a deadly chemical attack on the outskirts of Damascus on Aug. 21, the Obama administration has no choice but to enforce the “red line” the president laid out a year ago. To maintain American credibility — and his own — President Obama has to do so quickly and decisively. He also has to explain to the American people and to the world what is at stake in Syria and how the United States will lead in ending this crisis.

 

Mr. Obama has understandably viewed any involvement in Syria as a slippery slope to an expensive war that Americans do not want and will not support. Even after President Bashar al-Assad’s use of chemical weapons, his administration has been slow to react, and after much back-and-forth it has decided to punish Mr. Assad — but only in a discrete operation that would not have a direct bearing on the outcome of the civil war, and only, as Mr. Obama suggested on Saturday, if Congress gives its blessing.

 

The world will not see this as prudence but rather as dithering — reinforcing the perception that the United States is hiding behind its economic woes and, hounded by the ghosts of Iraq, is no longer keen on leading the world. That will embolden America’s adversaries and deject its friends. America could soon find itself alone in standing up to Iran or North Korea, or in pushing back against China and Russia, which have used their veto power on the Security Council to block United Nations authorization for intervention in Syria.

 

Americans are justifiably weary of war, but the lesson of Syria is that shirking from our global responsibilities will only create bigger problems that will eventually raise both the cost and the likelihood of American intervention.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/02/us-syria-crisis-france-idUSBRE98104H20130902?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

No plan for French lawmaker vote on Syria: senior lawmaker

 

France's government will not cede to calls from opposition figures to have lawmakers vote on whether to take military action in Syria, the head of parliament's foreign affairs committee Elisabeth Guigou said on Monday.

 

President Francois Hollande's demands for Bashar al-Assad's government to be punished for an alleged chemical attack have left him out on a limb since Britain's parliament voted against carrying out punitive strikes and U.S. President Barack Obama said he would seek Congress approval before any action.

 

Hollande is head of the army under the French constitution and empowered to order an intervention, with the sole obligation of informing parliament within three days of it starting. Only if military action were to last more than four months would he be obliged to seek parliamentary approval for it to continue.

 

With opinion polls showing up to two-thirds of the public would oppose an intervention in Syria, however, several conservative, centrist and green politicians called over the weekend for France to hold a special parliament vote.

 

"In a complicated situation like this, we need to stick to principles, in other words the constitution, which does not oblige the president to hold a vote, nor even a debate," Guigou, a veteran of the ruling Socialist Party, told France Info radio.

"France cannot act alone. To give an intervention legality it would need to be carried out by a broad coalition," she said.

 

Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault will meet parliament leaders later on Monday to discuss the crisis and share with them French intelligence on the attack.

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/TheMoeDee

Western Ghouta was just hit with two air strikes by regime warplanes. #Damascus
3:39 AM

 

https://twitter.com/AJELive

Libya FM Mohamed Abdulaziz speaks about Syria, places responsibility of chemical attacks on Syrian gov
4:15 AM

[skinsmarydu]

OK, so from what I'm reading from you, and what I've watched on TV (almost the whole argument by Cameron, and the UK voting "no"), we might have to go it alone?  That's gonna suck.