A Closer Look:John Beck vs Panthers

[KCClybun]

beck can't throw the ball in a standard position. He has to run and throw. No arm at all. They need to play Rex, the whole team morale has gone down ever since they benched hm. No way in the universe Beck gonna help this team, bring it back to the orginial offense for GOoDness sake...

Um, in what universe is it easier for a quarterback to throw on the run?

[Pelado]

Um, in what universe is it easier for a quarterback to throw on the run?

His post is full of inaccuracies - why worry about a debate on the relative difficulty of throwing on the run as compared to a stationary position?

beck can't throw the ball in a standard position. He has to run and throw.

False, as anyone who watched the clip at the beginning of this thread can see.

No arm at all.

False, as anyone who watched the clip at the beginning of this thread can see. Additionally, at the combine, he threw the ball harder than guys considered to have rocket arms, like Jay Cutler.

They need to play Rex, the whole team morale has gone down ever since they benched hm.

I've seen nothing to support this assertion.

No way in the universe Beck gonna help this team, bring it back to the orginial offense for GOoDness sake...

Hyperbolic assertion that also has no support.

The good news is that Rex's pain medication is starting to wear off.

[SirClintonPortis]

Guys, this Clay dude is probably a Bungles troll or some Gator fan, not a Redskins fan. You can't even excommunicate him, since he was never one of us to begin with.

[Skinsinparadise]

I make an effort to catch Cosell Thursdays on 980.I was surprised about his take on Beck from the Eagles game.

Yeah he wondered about his accuracy in that game but seemed to be reassured by the Panthers game.

I editted the OP to include a link to a SOW article on the game.

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Good article, yeah I agree the Gaffney pass was the best one, the corner was all over him, and the placement was perfect. the game might have turned out differently if he caught that one

[darrelgreenie]

After having heard the announcers, my initial review followed their analysis, that Beck should have thrown to the right side since the receivers were open. Upon further review, those defenders were playing zone and reading Beck's eyes, so they cheated to the left of the field. Had Beck's pre-snap read been to the right instead of the left, I think the receivers on the right would have been more tightly covered, though they still could have been open.

Oh no, I agree.

I still think based purely on a numbers count defenders vs receivers and the how far off the 2nd DB was playing the right side would have been a better side to work.

I disagree. There's a secondary angle on that play which shows you exactly what Beck was looking at as he's making the throw. Both receivers are in the same field of view, Gaffney with the shallow slant, Davis with the deeper out. Not only was Davis more open, he also had more room to run upfield as well as having the sideline to get out of bounds and stop the clock, since time was running out in the half.

You're right @3:36 I was confusing Helu entering the right flat for Davis.

It looks like they're running a slant-corner concept and it appears the Panthers are playing Cover 2.

I think Beck would have to hit Davis way early in the route to have a chance.

Almost as soon as Davis comes out of his initial break towards the corner the ball would have to be on him almost back shoulder.

The corner, linebacker and safety are all reading Beck but the corner especially is looking right at him and starting to backpedal as his receiver Gaffney is moving out of his zone, if Beck throws the corner route I think the CB would break underneath Davis.

At least that's the way I see it, meh, who knows?

Beck is certainly not afraid to go downfield. On the other hand, I find it funny that people dismiss checkdowns even when they keep drives alive. The defense can only guard so much of the field. If they take away the deep routes, then you throw the checkdown and let the receiver get the YAC.

Amen, bro.

Not that familiar with the grading system, but I thought your +/- assessment seemed reasonable.

A plus for a positive play.

A minus for an improve or mistake.

They neglected to DVR the Eagles game, so I haven't seen it yet. Have any Youtube links?

found it

---------- Post added October-29th-2011 at 01:19 PM ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xemkr2_CS-8

[GaryGreenMonk]

I'm giving Beck 5-6 more games.

If I don't see at least flashes of something that hints that he could be someone in this league, then I will be solidly in the camp that both our QB's our terrible and not only do we need to draft someone (which we need to do either way), but we'll need to also be looking into the FA market for a stop gap QB or at least a vet to provide a mentor for our draft pick.

[skinfan2k]

We played the freaking panthers and that first half was awful. Please Beck fail.

[GaryGreenMonk]

We played the freaking panthers and that first half was awful. Please Beck fail.

I agree.. but it was his first game and he did play better the second half.

But the Panthers D is terrible..

So is Buffalos D though.. so lets see if he takes a step forward this week. IF he does and say he leads the offense 30+ points...

Then we'll need to see if against a D that isn't bottom of the barrel. So, even if he looks like he's getting a lot better this week, it wont tell us a lot except he at least has the ability to torch one of the worst D's in the league.

Which actually would be more than we've had at QB in years... Campbell, McNabb or Grossman showed no ability to torch a bad D. We routinely got our asses handed to us by bad teams with all 3 of those guys.

[darrelgreenie]

We played the freaking panthers and that first half was awful. Please Beck fail.

Anything specific about the game you want to talk about?

---------- Post added October-29th-2011 at 08:23 PM ----------

I'm giving Beck 5-6 more games.

If I don't see at least flashes of something that hints that he could be someone in this league, then I will be solidly in the camp that both our QB's our terrible and not only do we need to draft someone (which we need to do either way), but we'll need to also be looking into the FA market for a stop gap QB or at least a vet to provide a mentor for our draft pick.

Fair enough.

How do you define 'be someone' in this league?

What did you think about Beck from this game?

[JohnLockesGhost]

I've been encouraged by what I've seen out of Beck. I certainly like him better than Grossman, but it remains to be seen if he's anything more than a placeholder.

[darrelgreenie]

I've been encouraged by what I've seen out of Beck. I certainly like him better than Grossman, but it remains to be seen if he's anything more than a placeholder.

The hope for this thread isn't to project what can be going forward.

There are plenty of threads about that, the aim is to discuss how Beck played in this game.

So toward that objective what did you see from Beck that was encouraging?

[Soup]

DG do you think the skins can run a version of the patriots offensive system, seeing that beck looked great in the shotgun and he can get rid of the ball quickly?

Beck plays like Ryan Fitzpatrick, in that he reads the field quickly and doesn't hold on to the ball. With the oline in bad shape, I think the redskins can pull off a 3-4 WR set without worrying about getting Beck killed by the other team's defense.

[darrelgreenie]

DG do you think the skins can run a version of the patriots offensive system, seeing that beck looked great in the shotgun and he can get rid of the ball quickly?

Beck plays like Ryan Fitzpatrick, in that he reads the field quickly and doesn't hold on to the ball. With the oline in bad shape, I think the redskins can pull off a 3-4 WR set without worrying about getting Beck killed by the other team's defense.

I could certainly see Beck running a quick rhythm spread concept passing attack.

Beck has quick feet, throws with a quick release and has good velocity but more importantly Beck seems to make sound decisions with the football.

Beck was able to move the ball through the air against an Eagle defense when they knew we were gonna have to pass.

Not to mention that the Eagles defense, featuring 3 #1 CBs and a good pass rushing DL, was imo specifically built to stop/limit a spread passing offense (Green Bay).

After the moving the ball against the Ealges I thought we would see Beck in a lot of 3-4 receiver sets and some 5 wide (w/ Helu motioning out).

But against the Panthers it was like a tale of 2 offenses.

1s half was run-run-run, second half was play action boot/swap; 4th qtr was 3-4 wide.

I think our passing attack has plenty of options: Davis, Armstrong when healthy can take the top off any defense, Gaffney a position type guy, Austin a slot/Tana type, Stallworth deep threat, Paul/Hankerson have the size, speed, athleticism of prototypical X receivers.

I'm excited to watch how this passing game develops.

[Doctorfro]

I thought Beck played pretty well in the 2nd half, but some play calling and drops killed him. The 4th down was beaten to death, not going to go over it.

3rd Skins Drive (score 23 - 13) @ 8 mins: Pass to AA (high and fast, but catchable), next play perfect bootleg pass to FD, with YAC available, killer drop.

Absolutely the back breaker. I was at the game and this series could have kept us in it. Those drops were HUGE. Both passes were good. Frankly, other aspects of our game lost this contest, not Beck. Think he can be an above average player.

[grego]

Beck has quick feet, throws with a quick release and has good velocity but more importantly Beck seems to make sound decisions with the football.

these attributes are what gives me hope that he can be a good quarterback. looking forward to seeing how he plays tomorrow.

[Newera]

You know, the more you read about the guy, the more there is to like . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-quarterback-john-beck-brings-a-cerebral-approach-to-the-game/2011/10/29/gIQAAtcXTM_story.html

[rskinsftw125]

Since beck and grossman are both about half as good as every other quarterback, they should join forces and become one. Together, they can get sacked and throw interceptions while holding hands. As one, they might even get a first down!

[Conn]

Since beck and grossman are both about half as good as every other quarterback, they should join forces and become one. Together, they can get sacked and throw interceptions while holding hands. As one, they might even get a first down!

How long did it take you to think that up? Don't lie. Clever posts like that don't just happen naturally. :doh:

[Newera]

Since beck and grossman are both about half as good as every other quarterback, they should join forces and become one. Together, they can get sacked and throw interceptions while holding hands. As one, they might even get a first down!

What do you mean, Beck had nine first down in his two possessions against the Eagles. 22 last week. Just sayin. That's 31 first downs in four and a half quarters. Let's see what we have after seven games. But then, why am I even responding.

[terrifNick21]

How long did it take you to think that up? Don't lie. Clever posts like that don't just happen naturally. :doh:

Sarcasm should be a font, lol

[Skinsinparadise]

You know, the more you read about the guy, the more there is to like . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-quarterback-john-beck-brings-a-cerebral-approach-to-the-game/2011/10/29/gIQAAtcXTM_story.html

Good article. Personality wise, I like it that Beck is self critical, obsessive about fixing what he didn't like from the previous game, you can tell via his interviews and the article gets into it. Conversely, as Sally Jenkins pointed out in her WP article, Rex doesn't tend to take blame or be self critical, could be why arguably he hasn't fixed what has ailed him throughout his career -- not to mention IMO it comes across petulant and non leader like. Both come across to me though as good guys, the difference that I notice is one of the QB's is about excuses and the other not. To the point of that article, i recall Kyle saying in the preseason that Beck comes into his office so much to talk about the offense that sometimes he has to kick him out so he can work done.

[JohnLockesGhost]

The hope for this thread isn't to project what can be going forward.

There are plenty of threads about that, the aim is to discuss how Beck played in this game.

So toward that objective what did you see from Beck that was encouraging?

First thing is mobility. He has, I believe, two first down runs and two touchdown runs in a game in a quarter. His mobility also seems to give him more comfort to slide in the pocket away from pressure. That's the first thing I noticed during the Eagles game: Were Rex would have brought the ball down and looked ready to panic, Beck was able to slide up and hit a pass.

It's apparant as well he has better velocity on the ball and a quicker release.

However, we will see if his field vision improves. There was a completion or two he left on the field because of bad decisions, but every QB does that. He's clearly a smart, motivated guy, so I see this as an issue that will improve with experience and reps.

I have also noticed he has a special relationship with Terrence Austin. And Niles Paul received his first pass from John Beck. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise (it's close to Halloween, right?) that Santana is out for a couple months.

Come to thnk of it, there's nothing about Grossman's game I like better than Beck's yet. Even his snap count and leadership abilities seem superior to Grossman's.