A Closer Look:John Beck vs Panthers

[TheGreek1973]

IMO, no matter how Beck performs, we should only take a QB at number one if he's the BPA. Drafting for need, and reaching to fill it, is dumb regardless of the position.

totally agree with this. And because we have Allen I don't think this is going to happen.

[darrelgreenie]

Summary of earlier breakdown:

Short: 9 completions, 16 attempts, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions, 1 drop

Intermediate: 10 completions,14 attempts, 0 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, 1 drop

Long: 1 completion, 3 attempts, 0 touchdowns, 1 interception, 1 drop

I considered a short pass to be anything that reaches the receiver less than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Intermediate were between 10 and 20 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Long passes were 20+ yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

Accurate passes: 23; Drops: 3

Inaccurate passes: 7; Passes that were or could have been intercepted: 3

Passes tipped at line of scrimmage: 3

His intermediate game was on the money for the most part, and the 1st half commitment to the run really helped create easy reads w/ open receivers.

The 3rd qtr looked like classic Mike Shanahan Denver WCO play/boot action passing attack.

Which passes did you count as drops? Gaffney x 2 and Davis x1?

I didn't count the Armstrong as a drop.

Passes that should have gone to a different receiver: at least 2

I'm curious which ones you thought?

I thought the pre-snap read on the 3rd and 2 should have been towards the opposite side of the field w/ Austin/Armstrong, but later heard Chris Russell atest that Beck said it was the correct read.

---------- Post added October-27th-2011 at 02:06 PM ----------

Quick and dirty:

I should recount, but a quick +/- grade system:

I had Beck: 27+ and 11-

I thought he showed the ability to hit these throws: skinny post, corner/out (Fred Davis/Paul), TE post (Paulsen), crosser/drag, fade stop (Gaffney), iso throw to position (Gaffney)

[Pelado]

His intermediate game was on the money for the most part, and the 1st half commitment to the run really helped create easy reads w/ open receivers.

The 3rd qtr looked like classic Mike Shanahan Denver WCO play/boot action passing attack.

Which passes did you count as drops? Gaffney x 2 and Davis x1?

I didn't count the Armstrong as a drop.

I'm curious which ones you thought?

I thought the pre-snap read on the 3rd and 2 should have been towards the opposite side of the field w/ Austin/Armstrong, but later heard Chris Russell atest that Beck said it was the correct read.

---------- Post added October-27th-2011 at 02:06 PM ----------

Quick and dirty:

I should recount, but a quick +/- grade system:

I had Beck: 27+ and 11-

Drops:

3:20 - Accurate ball to receiver on long stop route, dropped (Gaffney)

7:55 - Bootleg, accurate ball in stride to receiver on intermediate route, dropped (Davis)

12:17 - Accurate ball to receiver on short route, dropped (Gaffney)

Should have gone to different receiver:

1:39 - Tipped ball to potentially open receiver on slant route near endzone (Receiver open on right side - but could be just that defenders were reading Beck's eyes to the left side of the field - maybe there would have been tighter coverage had he looked right)

3:33 - Accurate ball to receiver on short route over the middle, completed and fumbled (Davis open on the out route to the near sideline - less than 30 seconds left in half, would have been throwing to the same side of the field, leading the receiver to the sideline for YAC and to stop the clock)

---------- Post added October-27th-2011 at 03:14 PM ----------

I thought he showed the ability to hit these throws: skinny post, corner/out (Fred Davis/Paul), TE post (Paulsen), crosser/drag, fade stop (Gaffney), iso throw to position (Gaffney)

How many times did "Admiral Checkdown" target his running backs out of the backfield?

[Skinsinparadise]

totally agree with this. And because we have Allen I don't think this is going to happen.

Shanny flat out said he drafted BPA last draft, he talked about it in context of why he didn't draft more O lineman, so the idea that its not going to happen this time, you got me why you think so.

---------- Post added October-27th-2011 at 05:45 PM ----------

His intermediate game was on the money for the most part, and the 1st half commitment to the run really helped create easy reads w/ open receivers.

The 3rd qtr looked like classic Mike Shanahan Denver WCO play/boot action passing attack.

Greg Cosell was just on 980, later it will be on their archives I bet, he grades players for NFL Films. He's generally pretty cynical about players as opposed to an optimist like lets say like Gruden. He was somewhat skeptical about Beck last week before this last game. Today, he said watching film, he was impressed with Beck, he said he made quick reads, was accurate, was decisive -- was very good with the bootleg and executes play action well.

[darrelgreenie]

Greg Cosell was just on 980, later it will be on their archives I bet, he grades players for NFL Films. He's generally pretty cynical about players as opposed to an optimist like lets say like Gruden. He was somewhat skeptical about Beck last week before this last game. Today, he said watching film, he was impressed with Beck, he said he made quick reads, was accurate, was decisive -- was very good with the bootleg and executes play action well.

I make an effort to catch Cosell Thursdays on 980.

I was surprised about his take on Beck from the Eagles game.

Given the circumstances I thought Beck was better against the Eagles then the Panthers.

He seemed quicker with his reads that game and sharper overall.

But, I wasn't surprised about his take on Beck from the Panthers.

Although Beck started out slow imo due to the low number of early pass attempts which didn't allow Beck to get in rhythm early.

But, the emphasis on the run allowed a new OL the chance to punch somebody and in the face and build confidence early an set-up play action; which was more important then getting Beck in rhythm for the drop back passing game imo.

I like what I see thus far and I'm eager to see more.

Once Kyle finds a balance with the getting Beck in rhythm in the passing game without sacrificing the run or vice versa.

BTW-

I editted the OP to include a link to a SOW article on the game.

Check it out and let me know what you think.

[darrelgreenie]

Drops:

12:17 - Accurate ball to receiver on short route, dropped (Gaffney)

Forgot all about this one; I completely thought he caught that one at first.

Gaffs had a tough day to be sure.

Should have gone to different receiver:

1:39 - Tipped ball to potentially open receiver on slant route near endzone (Receiver open on right side - but could be just that defenders were reading Beck's eyes to the left side of the field - maybe there would have been tighter coverage had he looked right)

3:33 - Accurate ball to receiver on short route over the middle, completed and fumbled (Davis open on the out route to the near sideline - less than 30 seconds left in half, would have been throwing to the same side of the field, leading the receiver to the sideline for YAC and to stop the clock)

1:39: on a 3 step drop the ball is gonna have to come out quick; there's not gonna be time to get to the backside of a progression so it was important pre-snap to pick the best side to work. Initially I would have graded that play down but after hearing the Russell I figured it was push because it seems if according to Beck that was the read as designed in the play.

edit:

3:33 Gaffney and Davis were both open at about the same depth, that was a fielders choice if you will. I think the expected YAC were the same for either guy.

How many times did "Admiral Checkdown" target his running backs out of the backfield?

I know right? lol

Sadly enough, being right or honest isn't a requirement for starting a thread in this forum.

Funny things is that some people really believe that Beck checks down a lot because of that thread.

Crazy.

BTW-What would you grade Beck at for this game using +/-

And what did you think of the Eagles game vs this game?

[HailGreen28]

Greg Cosell was just on 980, later it will be on their archives I bet, he grades players for NFL Films. He's generally pretty cynical about players as opposed to an optimist like lets say like Gruden. He was somewhat skeptical about Beck last week before this last game. Today, he said watching film, he was impressed with Beck, he said he made quick reads, was accurate, was decisive -- was very good with the bootleg and executes play action well.

I thought play action was the weakest part of Beck's game. He really didn't sell the fake or fool the panthers at all.

[darrelgreenie]

...........................misquote

[Red8Rex]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

[darrelgreenie]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

Wow, you want a Redskins player to get hurt?

You are not a fan, seriously that's pathetic.

Anyway, surely you aren't gonna be a mindless troll that only posts nonsense?

You're gonna actually make an attempt to discuss the game right?

[Pelado]

1:39: on a 3 step drop the ball is gonna have to come out quick; there's not gonna be time to get to the backside of a progression so it was important pre-snap to pick the best side to work. Initially I would have graded that play down but after hearing the Russell I figured it was push because it seems if according to Beck that was the read as designed in the play.

After having heard the announcers, my initial review followed their analysis, that Beck should have thrown to the right side since the receivers were open. Upon further review, those defenders were playing zone and reading Beck's eyes, so they cheated to the left of the field. Had Beck's pre-snap read been to the right instead of the left, I think the receivers on the right would have been more tightly covered, though they still could have been open.

edit:

3:33 Gaffney and Davis were both open at about the same depth, that was a fielders choice if you will. I think the expected YAC were the same for either guy.

I disagree. There's a secondary angle on that play which shows you exactly what Beck was looking at as he's making the throw. Both receivers are in the same field of view, Gaffney with the shallow slant, Davis with the deeper out. Not only was Davis more open, he also had more room to run upfield as well as having the sideline to get out of bounds and stop the clock, since time was running out in the half.

I know right? lol

Sadly enough, being right or honest isn't a requirement for starting a thread in this forum.

Funny things is that some people really believe that Beck checks down a lot because of that thread.

Crazy.

Beck is certainly not afraid to go downfield. On the other hand, I find it funny that people dismiss checkdowns even when they keep drives alive. The defense can only guard so much of the field. If they take away the deep routes, then you throw the checkdown and let the receiver get the YAC.

BTW-What would you grade Beck at for this game using +/-

Not that familiar with the grading system, but I thought your +/- assessment seemed reasonable.

And what did you think of the Eagles game vs this game?

Unfortunately, since I don't have Sunday Ticket and don't live anywhere near D.C., I have to go to a relative's house for the games. They neglected to DVR the Eagles game, so I haven't seen it yet. Have any Youtube links?

[richmond_skins]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

Really? Rex had his shot and he didn't win games, the defense won those 3 games. We know what Rex gives us and it looks like Beck is much more effective at this point even with 1 loss, but time will tell.

[RED06]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

WOW! To think something BAD like that is one thing. But to actually say it, really shows how sick some people can be. That's incredibly insane to wish anyone gets hurt regardless of how you feel about them. Take care

RED06

[Pelado]

After having heard the announcers, my initial review followed their analysis, that Beck should have thrown to the right side since the receivers were open. Upon further review, those defenders were playing zone and reading Beck's eyes, so they cheated to the left of the field. Had Beck's pre-snap read been to the right instead of the left, I think the receivers on the right would have been more tightly covered, though they still could have been open.

Here's Kyle Shanahan explaining what I was trying to say:

You have a concept on two sides. Pre-snap, you’ve got to pick the side that looks best and you go off of percentages based off of one side compared to the other. We had two different concepts. He took the single safety concept – looking one way. A lot of times, when a quarterback looks one way, you will see a lot of people open on the other side. A lot of people play with vision and watch the quarterback. Or if he looks the other way a lot of people are driving on that route, so it can be a little deceiving and the linebacker did a good job reading his eyes and got under and tipped the ball.

[Oldfan]

Originally Posted by Pelado

After having heard the announcers, my initial review followed their analysis, that Beck should have thrown to the right side since the receivers were open. Upon further review, those defenders were playing zone and reading Beck's eyes, so they cheated to the left of the field. Had Beck's pre-snap read been to the right instead of the left, I think the receivers on the right would have been more tightly covered, though they still could have been open.

Here's Kyle Shanahan explaining what I was trying to say:

"You have a concept on two sides. Pre-snap, you’ve got to pick the side that looks best and you go off of percentages based off of one side compared to the other. We had two different concepts. He took the single safety concept – looking one way. A lot of times, when a quarterback looks one way, you will see a lot of people open on the other side. A lot of people play with vision and watch the quarterback. Or if he looks the other way a lot of people are driving on that route, so it can be a little deceiving and the linebacker did a good job reading his eyes and got under and tipped the ball."

There is another factor involved making it risky to grade a QB's choice of receivers -- we don't know the read sequence. The QB will pull the trigger if he sees the first read open even if it's a narrow window. Meanwhile, a coverage could be blown, and a receiver left wide open, on his second or third read that he never gets around to.

[Jumbo]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

Listen carefully, butthead: we often ban people for wishing injury on other team's players, let alone our own. You just got here, already have an NTT, and you just made a very bad impression. You best think more, or better yet, read more and post less for awhile.

<edit>---having just entered this in your user notes, and seeing what Mark the Homer had in there regarding your NNT and other posts, welcome to your first temporary ban.

People who quickly show little regard for our forum rules, or other posters, or even common sense, may not survive ES. You still have a shot, so if you like it here, don't blow it.

[BeefJerky]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

WOW, really?????? Karma can be a biatch sir.

[rookieskin]

4:39 - Slides in pocket, accurate throw to receiver being held on short route (no penalty called)

Receiver was held, but Davis was more open crossing from right to left.

The line actually did a great job picking up the bliktz, and held up well.

John had time, but he had been feeling pressure, and pumped it out hard.

If the hold is called this is a mute point, but this would have been a pivital completion for a first, and a game changer.

I just realized that Davis did not make his first catch until late in the 3rd quarter..... WTHeck?!

THIS is on KYLE/COACH.

DAVIS AND PAULSON SHOULD BE INTEGRALLY INVOLVED EARLY AND OFTEN, AND THIS WILL OPEN UP THE RB AND OTHER WR'S.

I LOVE the decision to tuck and run in the TD. Showed great heart, and courage and quick decision making.

8:27 - Low but accurate ball to receiver on intermediate route between two defenders, no YAC

This was a phenominal throw where only the WR can make the catch

9:33 - 6-man blitz (no offsides penalty called even though at least two defender were in neutral zone at snap), inaccurate ball to receiver on short route over the middle with room to run, hits defender in the hands, incomplete

DAVIS was OPEN for a gain of 5.

9:45 - Inaccurate throw to receiver on sideline route (caught, but thrown too far out of bounds)

AA and Beck do not appear in SYNC at all... not just this throw.

Our OL played pretty good in the 2nd half, but looked atrocious in the first.

[BackToGlory]

I still think once Moss went out and Gaffney dropped a ball then fumbled, we couldn't come back, we aren't built that way. Kyle's playcalling sucked and the defense inability to stop Cam was the final straw. Sorry but no way I won't send the entire team on a rookie. Haslett acts like a whimp at times, blitzing in stupid situations that bite us in the butt, and not blitzing a rooking QB to rattle him. Haslett game calls gave Cam more and more confidence. Anyone that can't see that is blind......Beck was iffy in the first half but heated up the second half. No other player stepped up and the defense got crapped on. Game over......

[Rickc402]

Beck did a good job, can't ask a guy to come off the bench and do any better unless you win the game ie. Your defense shows up. It just wasn't in the cards on a few of those passes Newton looked like P. Manning not his scrub little brother. On this touchdown throw Wilson was there and in close coverage. In short at critical moments the redskins as a team failed and the panthers converted their critical moments which equaled our loss.

---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 02:08 PM ----------

Did I miss Gaffeney fumble the ball in the second half? Play calling and the going for it on fourth down was the turning point of this game Period that poor call lead to a touchdown, 3 redskins plays and a second Panthers touchdown being down by 3 no problem, 13 big problem

---------- Post added October-28th-2011 at 02:09 PM ----------

Thanks Fred Davis for dropping the critical third down conversation to help give the defense a blow

[SKIN4WAHOOZ]

All I know is JBeck looks much better in his 1st start then Rex did in any of his starts. If anyone thinks differently, put your bib on. Beck is gonna serve you crow this weekend.

Im damn excited to see him get his 2nd consecutive start. Lets hope Kyle opens the playbook from the start.

[Pelado]

4:39 - Slides in pocket, accurate throw to receiver being held on short route (no penalty called)

Receiver was held, but Davis was more open crossing from right to left.

The line actually did a great job picking up the bliktz, and held up well.

John had time, but he had been feeling pressure, and pumped it out hard.

If the hold is called this is a mute point, but this would have been a pivital completion for a first, and a game changer.

Davis may have been a little more open, but it's hard to tell for sure because his right arm wasn't being held. If the receiver isn't interfered with, then he catches that ball in stride going upfield. I don't think it was a bad decision, I think it was bad luck to have the receiver get held without the penalty being called.

[

B]I just realized that Davis did not make his first catch until late in the 3rd quarter..... WTHeck?!

THIS is on KYLE/COACH.

DAVIS AND PAULSON SHOULD BE INTEGRALLY INVOLVED EARLY AND OFTEN, AND THIS WILL OPEN UP THE RB AND OTHER WR'S.

There were 10 attempts in the first half, including 1 intentional grounding and 2 tipped passes. There was also a bootleg that Beck held onto for positive yards It's possible that Davis was the primary receiver on each of those plays, but just didn't get the ball because of being tightly covered (bootleg), or the ball not getting delivered (tipped or intentional grounding), though I think Gaffney was the intended receiver on at least one of those tipped balls.

I LOVE the decision to tuck and run in the TD. Showed great heart, and courage and quick decision making.

[/b]

8:27 - Low but accurate ball to receiver on intermediate route between two defenders, no YAC

This was a phenominal throw where only the WR can make the catch

Agree

9:33 - 6-man blitz (no offsides penalty called even though at least two defender were in neutral zone at snap), inaccurate ball to receiver on short route over the middle with room to run, hits defender in the hands, incomplete

DAVIS was OPEN for a gain of 5.

Similar to the play before, Davis did look more open than the targeted receiver, and an uncalled penalty goes against the Redskins.

Our OL played pretty good in the 2nd half, but looked atrocious in the first.

The run blocking seemed pretty solid in the first half, but there were a few protection issues. Overall, I thought the line protected pretty well throughout the game.

[Clay112]

beck can't throw the ball in a standard position. He has to run and throw. No arm at all. They need to play Rex, the whole team morale has gone down ever since they benched hm. No way in the universe Beck gonna help this team, bring it back to the orginial offense for GOoDness sake...

[Pelado]

beck can't throw the ball in a standard position. He has to run and throw. No arm at all. They need to play Rex, the whole team morale has gone down ever since they benched hm. No way in the universe Beck gonna help this team, bring it back to the orginial offense for GOoDness sake...

So I guess you only saw 5 of his passing attempts.

Mobility really sucks. It's too bad Beck was able to run in that one touchdown and get positive yards on his rushing attempts..

[SWFLSkins]

Can't wait until Beck is injured so Rex will be back winning games.

GTFO with that Rexy. Grossman is a TO machine and nothing has changed.