kleese Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Yes, a "small landslide" is similar to a tiny giant or an extremely tall midget. Maybe a soaking wet desert. So please, let me explain. I knew about Beck's career numbers before our game in Baltimore the other night, but it never really hit me until I saw it flashed on the screen....he has four starts IN HIS CAREER. Those starts came as a rookie playing for a team that wound up 1-15. In all reality, we know very little about John Beck. He really hasn't gotten a legitimate chance to prove himself on gamedays. Now, perhaps there is a very good reason he hasn't gotten that chance. Perhaps the coaches in Miami, Baltimore, and Washington didn't give him that chance because he hadn't earned it. Maybe they simply didn't like what they saw in practice, pre-season, etc. We know quite a bit about Rex Grossman. We know he is wildly inconsistent. We also know that he knows this offense very well and has looked rather relaxed and poised running it here in DC. So far in pre-season, I'd say their on-field battle is pretty much a dead heat, with Rex probably looking a tad more sharp and in control. But I'm not sure that really matters. The Redskins aren't primed to win a Super Bowl in 2011. We have some holes in other areas besides QB that will prevent us from doing that. I do think it's possible that Grossman has hit his early 30's, that he's found a very good system for his skill set, and that he has matured to the point where he might be ready to take a step into a realm of a very effective NFL QB. But deep down, I think we know what we have. We know enough about Rex. We know almost nothing about Beck. And because he is competing against Rex Grossman and not Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan, I think it's time to find out. The Redskins finally have the luxury this season of rolling the dice on some things. We are no longer an old team desperately trying to squeeze into the post-season as our stars fade into the end of their careers. There is no desperation in 2011. There appears to be a very defined path for this team centered around competition between rookies and second/third year players and a under-the-radar free agents who have yet to hit 30. This season should be one worth building on. So before we just go ahead and with Rex and allow him to keep the seat warm for someone else in a year or two, let's first give Beck his chance. A true, legitimate chance. We won't be able to cite age or experience if he fails...he is 30 now and has been in the league since 2007. We won't be able to cite lack of comfort in a system...he's been here for well over a year learning what the Shannys do. And we won't be able to cite a complete lack of talent/help around him. His line and weapons on offense may not be juggernauts, but they aren't jokes either. He will have enough help for us to know if he is any good. This should be John Beck's big shot. I would give him a minimum of four games (unless he is so utterly putrid we have no choice) to show us what he's got. That's two home games, two road games. All four teams are beatable, but only Arizona would be a game where you'd think we'd be favored. It's a good test for Beck. He isn't facing the 70's Steelers or the sister of the poor. On the field, one thing that I do think will help Beck's cause is that he moves better than Rex. Our OL is improved, but I still think we'll have some issues with pressure up the middle and picking up blitzes. Beck rolls better and has a bit more ability to run for yards is the defense overpursues. If week one was the Super Bowl and I had to pick one QB to win it for us, I'd pick Rex. I'm more comfortable with Rex. I don't think Rex will completely screw us in any given game-- not at this point in his career. Beck might. He might be horrid. He might make us all long for Shane Matthews by week three. I have no idea. But he's done enough this pre-season to warrant the chance. This is a really, really good situation for a guy like Beck to be in. And a good situation for the Redskins as well. If he sucks, we yank him, go to Rex for the remainder of the season and make QB priority #1 heading into 2012. But the upside is great... if Beck is good, then maybe we do a lot better than we thought we'd do this year...maybe we're closer to serious contention than we thought and maybe our off-season plan changes a bit. If he's really good, then we might have our QB for the next 5-6 years. This is a very tight race. But the choice is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 If I am the coach of an NFL team, I play Week 1 the exact same way I play the Super Bowl. So by your way of thinking, Rex should be the starter until he warrants being pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I am cool with whoever Mike thinks is best, afterall he is there and forgot more about football than I will ever know. That being said, I would go with Beck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 If I am the coach of an NFL team, I play Week 1 the exact same way I play the Super Bowl. So by your way of thinking, Rex should be the starter until he warrants being pulled. Actually that is YOUR way of thinking, not mine. My way of thinking is that if you are a coach and team President and in it for the long haul, you sometimes make decisions with an eye toward the future. And the thing with Rex is that I doubt he will warrant getting pulled. I'd imagine he will be steady, average, etc... in which case there probably wouldn't be a good reason to yank him necesarrily and we'll never find out what Beck can go when the bullets are live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Kleese if this move is towards the future, you put Rex into start this season. There is no way we should have Beck as our starter and teach the rookie for 2012. I feel way more comfortable winning in the short term with Rex and then the long term with the rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Kleese if this move is towards the future, you put Rex into start this season. There is no way we should have Beck as our starter and teach the rookie for 2012. I feel way more comfortable winning in the short term with Rex and then the long term with the rookie The point being that we know SO little about Beck...what if he's really good? Then maybe we won't need that rookie after all next year and can focus our attention on other areas. I would agree it's probably a long shot that Beck is a long-term starter for the Redskins, but I'd like to at least find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Nice, reasoned, well written piece Kleese man. Personally, I'm impervious as to who get's the gig come Week One against NY as I honestly don't see much from either or this O this year there in; and I'm looking at next spring and the draft to sort this mess out hopefully once and for all. That said, if you want a chance to win more than you lose, Beck's your man. He's the safer option than Grossman. And the mobility you mentioned will be massive come the regular season when everything's raised another few levels and opposing defenders are in the QB's face. That's where the agility and savvy decisions of John outweigh the panic stricken, throw it up for grabs under-pressure side of Rex. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Beck was with the team last season. He's not an unknown quantity to the Shanahans anymore. I'd personally like to see Rex out there, but as I keep repeating: in Shanny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The point being that we know SO little about Beck...what if he's really good? Then maybe we won't need that rookie after all next year and can focus our attention on other areas. I would agree it's probably a long shot that Beck is a long-term starter for the Redskins, but I'd like to at least find out. he might be good but i still don't see him as a long term solution. this draft upcoming is probably comparable to 2004 NFL draft in terms of QB Talent. The ceilings of the Big 3 are much much higher than Beck. Beck to me, seems to be a tier 3 QB for his ceiling. Otherwise he would have already been discovered or given a chance. The quarterbacks coming up all have a chance being in the top tier 1 group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Actually that is YOUR way of thinking, not mine. My way of thinking is that if you are a coach and team President and in it for the long haul, you sometimes make decisions with an eye toward the future. And the thing with Rex is that I doubt he will warrant getting pulled. I'd imagine he will be steady, average, etc... in which case there probably wouldn't be a good reason to yank him necesarrily and we'll never find out what Beck can go when the bullets are live. Well I'm glad you aren't the coach of the Redskins... There are 16 weeks in a season, plenty of time to 'put an eye to the future' if your best men can't cut it right away. NFL coaches don't start their QBs out of curiosity- they start the guy who they believe will give them the best chance to win at 4:15pm on Sunday. While I agree there isn't a whole lot of separation between the two players, it's Rex's job to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canethang 305 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Not to rain on anyone's parade ( pun intended ) but exactly how many NON CFL starts did one Joe Thiesmann have before he was annoited starter and thats not the only thing he has in common with #7. You could have said the same thing about Schroeder 4000 yards and playoffs, Ryp greatest statistical season by a 'Skins SuperBowl winning QB. If he can play he can play, you have to get the experience before you have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The now and future best QB for the Redskins is John Beck. He's not only is more talented than Rex, he is a much better fit for the scheme. It's only when Kyle calls those zone stretch rollouts for Beck that one begins to see the dynamic potential of the Shanahan scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 The point being that we know SO little about Beck...what if he's really good? Then maybe we won't need that rookie after all next year and can focus our attention on other areas. I would agree it's probably a long shot that Beck is a long-term starter for the Redskins, but I'd like to at least find out. Or,Beck's really good and you draft that QB next year and let him sit on the bench and develop....much like Aaron Rodgers did and the way it used to be done. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Or,Beck's really good and you draft that QB next year and let him sit on the bench and develop....much like Aaron Rodgers did and the way it used to be done. :2cents: Ding. Not like we have Brett Favre for said young QB to develop behind, but still, it's the right way to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 QB reputations are based on such superficial information thanks to the Madden games etc. All-pro Cutler didn't do any better in the same system as Rex in Chicago. Ryan and Flacco both choke in the playoffs. If this was a coach like Zorn, the choice would be Rex. But since the Shanahans have the reputation and probably will stay here a while (at least in their minds), who knows what they will do. Not too many coaches would bank on a 30 year old with one career TD pass unless they are established in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You people dont know nothing about football if you think Grossman gives up a better chance against the Giants line. Sorry but they will have like 4 sacks in the first half against him. Beck is a BETTER QB. Plain and Simple as that. I dont care about experience in the system. Beck gives us a better chance to win. He is just as good passing and he is better in the pocket and outside the pocket. Sorry but what can Grossman do that Beck cant? It seem like people just want Grossman to be n so we can be the # 1 pick. But we're not because the team around him wont let that happen. We can win the East and Beck gives us the best chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Go with the young guy and see what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 How old was Rodgers when he started for Green Bay. I found the answer. He was 24. Rodgers is only 27, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_BearsFan Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think grossman has a higher cieling than people give him credit for he played one full rollercoaster season for a team with dismal offensive weapons and still showed flashes. The idea that he is a known commodity is bogus, he looks much better in this offence than he did in his one season as starter in chicago. the age difference is a non-factor( they are about 363 days apart. less than year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 I think grossman has a higher cieling than people give him credit for he played one full rollercoaster season for a team with dismal offensive weapons and still showed flashes. The idea that he is a known commodity is bogus, he looks much better in this offence than he did in his one season as starter in chicago. the age difference is a non-factor( they are about 363 days apart. less than year) But he doesnt look better than Beck. The Offense doesnt look better either. The offense looks more explosive when Beck is in there especially with the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You people dont know nothing about football if you think Grossman gives up a better chance against the Giants line. Sorry but they will have like 4 sacks in the first half against him. Beck is a BETTER QB. Plain and Simple as that. I dont care about experience in the system. Beck gives us a better chance to win. He is just as good passing and he is better in the pocket and outside the pocket. Sorry but what can Grossman do that Beck cant? It seem like people just want Grossman to be n so we can be the # 1 pick. But we're not because the team around him wont let that happen. We can win the East and Beck gives us the best chance. Well, Grossman didn't play badly against the Giants last season but I believe he ended up throwing 1 interception and fumbling twice (with quite a few balls batted down): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jugw7ZjyMLs&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKuswgk6ZzM&feature=related Grossman is perfectly average, his usual up and down (though the most concerning thing about last year's game against the Giants is that almost 5 minutes into the third quarter Grossman still had not converted ONE third down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You people dont know nothing about football if you think Grossman gives up a better chance against the Giants line. Sorry but they will have like 4 sacks in the first half against him. Beck is a BETTER QB. Plain and Simple as that. I dont care about experience in the system. Beck gives us a better chance to win. He is just as good passing and he is better in the pocket and outside the pocket. Sorry but what can Grossman do that Beck cant? It seem like people just want Grossman to be n so we can be the # 1 pick. But we're not because the team around him wont let that happen. We can win the East and Beck gives us the best chance.Grossman's actually better at getting the ball out of his hands than Beck. Do you know specifically in what way Beck is BETTER!!!!!!! and what way Rex is BETTER!!!!!! There are plenty of good arguments for both you might want to read.Experience in the system counts. Remember how Todd Collins shined here, then stunk it up in Chicago? Beck has two years in this system, and Rex has at least three. Rex still has a more accurate deep ball, makes reads faster, and seems to know the offense better. And I think his "A" game is still better than Beck's (if only Rex was consistent). The only people to suggest tanking the season with Rex have done so in jest. You might want to check your sarcasm meter. For example: We can win the East? Glad you and Sexy Rexy are in agreement, then! Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWinSkins83 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Well, Grossman didn't play badly against the Giants last season but I believe he ended up throwing 1 interception and fumbling twice (with quite a few balls batted down): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jugw7ZjyMLs&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKuswgk6ZzM&feature=related Grossman is perfectly average, his usual up and down (though the most concerning thing about last year's game against the Giants is that almost 5 minutes into the third quarter Grossman still had not converted ONE third down). This is what Im talking about I didnt watch the video but you said he threw a INT and had two fumbles. Now everthing after was good but that is where we lost the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 In the second video, if you just FF to 7:00 in, it has a recap of the Giants defense against Grossman, it's 3 batted balls, 1 interception, and 2 lost fumbles. Grossman seems to never feel or recognize pressure...or he didn't in that game. I'm not anti-Grossman, I just think what we have seen from him is as good as it will get and IMO that means he should be back up. With his experience as a starter in the NFL and with this system he should be playing lights out football and he just isn't. There's really no reason why Beck should be playing just as good as he is with far far less experience on the field and in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 This is what Im talking about I didnt watch the video but you said he threw a INT and had two fumbles. Now everthing after was good but that is where we lost the game. Watch that video. I noticed two things: 1) That just made me really excited about Cofield. That seemed like his highlight reel 2) Grossman looked awful. If he had time, he did well. But he could not create time or plays at all with his feet. Our o-line has to be dominant in pass pro for him to succeed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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