Beck Over Grossman in a VERY, VERY Small LANDSLIDE

[GWinSkins83]

Grossman's actually better at getting the ball out of his hands than Beck. Do you know specifically in what way Beck is BETTER!!!!!!! and what way Rex is BETTER!!!!!! There are plenty of good arguments for both you might want to read.

Experience in the system counts. Remember how Todd Collins shined here, then stunk it up in Chicago? Beck has two years in this system, and Rex has at least three.

Rex still has a more accurate deep ball, makes reads faster, and seems to know the offense better. And I think his "A" game is still better than Beck's (if only Rex was consistent).

The only people to suggest tanking the season with Rex have done so in jest. You might want to check your sarcasm meter. For example:

We can win the East? Glad you and Sexy Rexy are in agreement, then!

Hail!

I mean I cant tell how Rex is quicker making throws. I mean when both are in it seem the same to me with the passing game. Womea lie Men lie numbers dont. Next it not all about the pass game either. Beck makes the run game better. Stretch plays are called and the defense has to respect Beck's bootleg. If not he will run for a first down. Rex CAN NOT do that. Which makes this offense better. The passing stuff is for us to debate while people can say Rex reads are quicker I can say Beck's stats throwing are better and more efficient. But can't no one despute the run game is way better with Beck in there.

[jsbaugh]

My feeling is we know Rex is really just a good backup QB. He has never been a great starter in the NFL and we know exactly what he will give us. With Beck we just dont know yet and I think its time to find out. I think both of them have looked good in the preseason and are pretty even. Based on that I think Beck should get the start. Also I think Beck fits the offense scheme better with his ability to run. Best case is Beck looks good, worse case is Rex has to come in.

For those wanting to draft a QB next year, it will happen but this team is not bad enough to where your going to get one of the top QB's. Even if you draft a QB next year they are going to sit at least a year because they are not going to beat out Rex or Beck initially. Not in this offense.

[#98QBKiller]

I'm in the John Beck camp as of now. I like what I've seen from Rex but honestly Grossman's gonna Grossman. He's going to be inconsistent as he has been since college. This year is probably a building year regardless but IMO, from what I've seen Beck gives us the best chance to win.

[HailGreen28]

I mean I cant tell how Rex is quicker making throws. I mean when both are in it seem the same to me with the passing game. Womea lie Men lie numbers dont. Next it not all about the pass game either. Beck makes the run game better. Stretch plays are called and the defense has to respect Beck's bootleg. If not he will run for a first down. Rex CAN NOT do that. Which makes this offense better. The passing stuff is for us to debate while people can say Rex reads are quicker I can say Beck's stats throwing are better and more efficient. But can't no one despute the run game is way better with Beck in there.

The biggest effect of the bootleg is to avoid pressure, not set up the run game. Grossman has run the bootleg this season and last, though I agree with you Beck's relative speed means he does that better. Seems like Kyle calls more bootlegs with Beck in, probably for that reason.

I wouldn't give Beck or Grossman extra credit for how our RBs have done this preseason. Play selection had more to do with that this preseason.

Beck's overall stats are better. Except for one bad game against Indy, Grossman's stats are better. I prefer Rex, but there's good argument for both.

[GWinSkins83]

The biggest effect of the bootleg is to avoid pressure, not set up the run game. Grossman has run the bootleg this season and last, though I agree with you Beck's relative speed means he does that better. Seems like Kyle calls more bootlegs with Beck in, probably for that reason.

I wouldn't give Beck or Grossman extra credit for how our RBs have done this preseason. Play selection had more to do with that this preseason.

Beck's overall stats are better. Except for one bad game against Indy, Grossman's stats are better. I prefer Rex, but there's good argument for both.

I the defense plays the QB on the back side it MAKES A HUGE CUTBACK LANE IF ITS A RUN. I mean what dont you get about that. Its not all about the pass game. It affects everything when a QB can run for a first down. Thats why I think A Rodgers is the Best QB in the league. He can beat you both ways.

[DC_BearsFan]

GWinSkins83 --"But he doesnt look better than Beck. The Offense doesnt look better either. The offense looks more explosive when Beck is in there especially with the run game."

I think you are just thinking of 1 series, Beck's first, and inflating that over the bulk of Beck's work in the game. Most glaringly, his second possession, where the offense looked awful. like a shell of itself in the drive before. The play where Beck wasn't sure what to do with the ball at the end of the rollout, and then eventually took a blind sack was an awful play, he could have easily thrown it out of bounds. He also thew the horrible pass into the dirt, with an open reciever. The running/ passing game with Beck for the rest of the half other than those first 2 -3 plays was not as efficient or well run than Grossman's remaining possessions. I think Hightower has looked great with both qbs, you are giving more credit to Beck when you should be giving it to Hightower.

A good reason to go with Grossman in week 1 is his chemistry with Moss. Moss is similar to Berrien in size and speed, so Grossman likes that type of reciever especially for deep passes and slants, but Moss is a better route runner and has better hands. I know Beck has completed a few passes to Moss as well, but it is clear that Rex and Moss have a lot of timing patterns on point, the pump fake deep pass to back of endzone was on the money in good coverage. Grossman hit Moss deep a few times in this last game, and Moss made the hot read TD vs the Steelers.

[HailGreen28]

I the defense plays the QB on the back side it MAKES A HUGE CUTBACK LANE IF ITS A RUN. I mean what dont you get about that. Its not all about the pass game. It affects everything when a QB can run for a first down. Thats why I think A Rodgers is the Best QB in the league. He can beat you both ways.

In the ZBS, it's the linemen on the weakside getting to the second level that create the cutback lane. Not the DE/OLB on the weakside playing contain.

Aaron Rodgers beat teams with precision passes, and keeping plays alive with his feet, not with planned bootlegs.

Beck's no threat to beat you running for yards. What he does very well is get out on the bootleg, where he has time for stuff to develop downfield. It's a staple of Mike's last coaching seasons in Denver, and Kyle's now.

[Diesel__44]

Both QBs are average at best. We can win with either but IMO Beck's mobility is the biggest difference between the two. It also seems that Kyle is more aggressive with Beck at the helm.

[GWinSkins83]

GWinSkins83 --"But he doesnt look better than Beck. The Offense doesnt look better either. The offense looks more explosive when Beck is in there especially with the run game."

I think you are just thinking of 1 series, Beck's first, and inflating that over the bulk of Beck's work in the game. Most glaringly, his second possession, where the offense looked awful. like a shell of itself in the drive before. The play where Beck wasn't sure what to do with the ball at the end of the rollout, and then eventually took a blind sack was an awful play, he could have easily thrown it out of bounds. He also thew the horrible pass into the dirt, with an open reciever. The running/ passing game with Beck for the rest of the half other than those first 2 -3 plays was not as efficient or well run than Grossman's remaining possessions. I think Hightower has looked great with both qbs, you are giving more credit to Beck when you should be giving it to Hightower.

A good reason to go with Grossman in week 1 is his chemistry with Moss. Moss is similar to Berrien in size and speed, so Grossman likes that type of reciever especially for deep passes and slants, but Moss is a better route runner and has better hands. I know Beck has completed a few passes to Moss as well, but it is clear that Rex and Moss have a lot of timing patterns on point, the pump fake deep pass to back of endzone was on the money in good coverage. Grossman hit Moss deep a few times in this last game, and Moss made the hot read TD vs the Steelers.

I have Hightower break more than once with Beck in the games. I also seen Helu get alot of yard with Beck in there. Yeah that play he could have thrown it out of bounds. But how many times in A REDSKIN JERESY have we seen that same play but he trys to turn it away and it ends up as an INT? I can name one the DALLAS game. This is not Chicago and we need to stop acting like this situation is the same. For one the NFC is way better than in those days. Sorry but this real. Next that team was lights out and gave the offense plenty of time to score with real good field position. Then we are only talking about ONE YEAR. What happen to his other 7 years? I mean this is what I dont get we dont want to give Beck a chance when he has less time in the system and less experience but he is putting up the same or better stats. Im sorry but if Gross was a better QB he should no matter what have better stat then a journey man QB that 2 team didnt want only in the system for a year. Im sorry if he had better stats then yeah let him start but he doesnt the offense is better with Beck in it. He had his chance last year and he was suppose to deflect that segma of him being a turnover machine but he had 8 turnover in 3 games hahaha. Then he has one again vs 2s. Im sorry but Beck should start and rightfully so he came in better shape and ready to go. Thats another thing why if youre Rex come in even 1 pound over weight. As the QB of the team you have to be the example and he didnt do a good job of showing good leadership by doing that. I mean thats the least he can do he didnt play all year nor was he injuried. Thats pathetic to me especially knowing Mike dont want know one out of shape.

[CommanderDOOM]

The Beck'r

[GWinSkins83]

In the ZBS, it's the linemen on the weakside getting to the second level that create the cutback lane. Not the DE/OLB on the weakside playing contain.

Aaron Rodgers beat teams with precision passes, and keeping plays alive with his feet, not with planned bootlegs.

Beck's no threat to beat you running for yards. What he does very well is get out on the bootleg, where he has time for stuff to develop downfield. It's a staple of Mike's last coaching seasons in Denver, and Kyle's now.

One thing the bootleg works off the stretch and and stretch works off the bootleg. Watch the DE on that play with Grossman and then with Beck. The DE can pursue the back side on the stretch if there is no threat of a bootleg. Beck is not a threat getting yards runnng? If he bootlegs and they dont contain him he will get 8 yards. Thats not a threat? Are you even thinking about what you are typing? Even if he adverage 6 yards a run on a bootleg thats a threat.

[SpacePenguin]

The Stormin Mormon doesn't make stupid mistakes. Throwing it up with one on one coverage is not a mistake. Rex has a tendency to take a tougher throw downfield over a checkdown. Beck will take what the defense gives him, and play smart. I'm not going to repeat what others have said about his mobility in the pocket and on the rollout, and better pocket presence.

I don't mind either guy starting, but I think Beck, right now, gives a better chance to win close games than Rex does. Taking chances is one thing, but forcing balls into coverage is something coaches tend to frown upon. Beck has taken too many sacks, but at least held on to the ball when hit. This can be corrected, I'm sure he'll learn to throw balls away instead of taking sacks. Small concern.

But hey, I liked Beck before this season started just from film in college and on a bad Miami team. He looks the same to me, maybe a bit stronger arm now. I'll take that over Rex, by a small margin.

Not gonna type the phrase "small landslide". Oh damn, I just did.

[AKM311]

Regardless of who starts, I don't feel comfy with either one of them being able to bring us back down 6 with 2:00 left to go in the game.

[HailGreen28]

One thing the bootleg works off the stretch and and stretch works off the bootleg. Watch the DE on that play with Grossman and then with Beck. The DE can pursue the back side on the stretch if there is no threat of a bootleg. Beck is not a threat getting yards runnng? If he bootlegs and they dont contain him he will get 8 yards. Thats not a threat? Are you even thinking about what you are typing? Even if he adverage 6 yards a run on a bootleg thats a threat.

Teams have had no trouble containing Beck on the bootleg. But Beck has more time to throw that way. What do you mean, stretch works off the bootleg and vice-versa? In general, you could say that about any play-action, including what Kyle does with Rex.

edit: And no, when the RB makes his cut back on the typical ZBS play, the DE/OLB weakside is too far away to make a play. Hightower (I think it was him), had a nice run bouncing it to the backside recently where the OLD/DE could have made a play. But if he had contain, he would have been in position anyways.

[GWinSkins83]

Teams have had no trouble containing Beck on the bootleg. But Beck has more time to throw that way. What do you mean, stretch works off the bootleg and vice-versa? In general, you could say that about any play-action, including what Kyle does with Rex.

edit: And no, when the RB makes his cut back on the typical ZBS play, the DE/OLB weakside is too far away to make a play. Hightower (I think it was him), had a nice run bouncing it to the backside recently where the OLD/DE could have made a play. But if he had contain, he would have been in position anyways.

Trust me if he can run for 6yards if given space he will be trouble. The stretch play sucks a defense to one side of the field. As soon as they do that it could be a bootleg with open field. Now there might be a TE leaked out and maybe a WR on a drag. Now if over persue that leave the CB and Safety trying to account for three offensive players. Do you get it now. So yes that play has options. Next yes Grossman can dropback but Beck can too. But Beck can rollout too but Grossman not good at it sooooooooooo....this offense has more options and ways to get yards and put points up with Beck in there instead of Grossman. Get it now.

[HailGreen28]

Trust me if he can run for 6yards if given space he will be trouble. The stretch play sucks a defense to one side of the field. As soon as they do that it could be a bootleg with open field. Now there might be a TE leaked out and maybe a WR on a drag. Now if over persue that leave the CB and Safety trying to account for three offensive players. Do you get it now. So yes that play has options. Next yes Grossman can dropback but Beck can too. But Beck can rollout too but Grossman not good at it sooooooooooo....this offense has more options and ways to get yards and put points up with Beck in there instead of Grossman. Get it now.

The weakside DE/OLB is going to still be there, and neither Beck nor Grossman is going to beat him upfield with their legs. Understand? What the option is that on the handoff fake, the QB can bootleg and avoid pressure. That gives time for the routes you describe to happen. And yes Rex has done it too.

Are you sure you aren't confusing Beck with Steve Young? lol

[Dallsux]

The now and future best QB for the Redskins is John Beck. He's not only is more talented than Rex, he is a much better fit for the scheme.

Except, I think he holds onto the ball way too long & Rex seems to make better decisions in the clutch.

That being said, I also think that Beck seems to have a better touch pass & the long ball, he seems more accurate.

In the end, I will be satisfied as long as the QB Shanahan starts is the one who actually gives us the best opportunity to win.

[CrypticVillain]

Both QBs are average at best. We can win with either but IMO Beck's mobility is the biggest difference between the two. It also seems that Kyle is more aggressive with Beck at the helm.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be mad if Rex starts, but Beck's mobility has always been the separating factor. It was times in this pre-season where Grossman looked so stiff in the pocket. He he plays that stiff in the regular season, he might get killed. In an offense that will be running the ball efficient, you should want the mobile QB so he can set up the playaction.

Top recap: Rex = Beck Rex Mobility <<<<<<< Beck Mobility.

[SpacePenguin]

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be mad if Rex starts, but Beck's mobility has always been the separating factor. It was times in this pre-season where Grossman looked so stiff in the pocket. He he plays that stiff in the regular season, he might get killed. In an offense that will be running the ball efficient, you should want the mobile QB so he can set up the playaction.

Top recap: Rex = Beck Rex Mobility <<<<<<< Beck Mobility.

While I agree mobility is a big factor in Beck's favor, I feel that many are being superficial by claiming it as the only deciding factor. I think Beck's decisions with the ball grade out higher than Rex's have. Play by play, looking at the film, I promise you that the Shanahan's will decide based on specific decisions against specific defensive looks.

Sometimes, Rex may get a completion into traffic, but ignore the right read in the flats. This is why Beck should win the competition, imo. The mobility is nice, but a QB's ability to read a defense and make a smart decision is more important to a head coach. Either player can effectively lead the team, after all. Rex isn't in a wheelchair out there, similarly John Beck does not run a 4.4 ;p

[GWinSkins83]

The weakside DE/OLB is going to still be there, and neither Beck nor Grossman is going to beat him upfield with their legs. Understand? What the option is that on the handoff fake, the QB can bootleg and avoid pressure. That gives time for the routes you describe to happen. And yes Rex has done it too.

Are you sure you aren't confusing Beck with Steve Young? lol

Man in a stretch play you think a DE is going to for REX GROSSMAN. NO. Why would they even if Rex has a step on a DE he wont be able to turn the Corner. If Beck has a step he can turn a corner. Can Rex do a bootleg with the effectiveness as Beck though? I say no because Beck can run for a mesly 6 yards. I mean its that simple Beck can run for 6 yards we have seen this in the preseason. With perfect exacution yeah Grossman is good in this system. But Beck can make something happening if the play doesnt go the way it was suppose to better than Rex. Im not confusing Beck with Young but I know that he can do things like Young that REX CANT DO. And hold up Mike offense is known for WHAT? ZBS and BOOTLEGS. Who FITS THAT SYSTEM BETTER?

[HailToTheRedskins14]

I've read this thread and haven't once seen the argument of cardiovascular endurance. It is obvious that Shanahan really believes in Rex Grossman's cardiovascular endurance after the Legendary Two Minute Drive of Doom last year. I know NOTHING about John Beck's cardiovascular endurance, so I'm going with Grossman.

In actuality, I'm Bucking for Beck!

[HailGreen28]

Man in a stretch play you think a DE is going to for REX GROSSMAN. NO. Why would they even if Rex has a step on a DE he wont be able to turn the Corner. If Beck has a step he can turn a corner. Can Rex do a bootleg with the effectiveness as Beck though? I say no because Beck can run for a mesly 6 yards. I mean its that simple Beck can run for 6 yards we have seen this in the preseason. With perfect exacution yeah Grossman is good in this system. But Beck can make something happening if the play doesnt go the way it was suppose to better than Rex. Im not confusing Beck with Young but I know that he can do things like Young that REX CANT DO. And hold up Mike offense is known for WHAT? ZBS and BOOTLEGS. Who FITS THAT SYSTEM BETTER?

The answer to your last yelling, is that Rex fits the system better. Because he makes better reads and knows the system better.

If Rex gains a step, yes he can turn the corner. Not saying he'll go far (and neither will Beck), but think about what you said.

And no, Beck can't turn a standard rollout into a long run like Young could. Let alone try to run like a rb in open space like Young did.

In the games we've seen this preseason, Rex has done just as good a job of avoiding pressure in the pocket as Beck has. It's on the bootleg where Beck's speed has made a difference.

It may come down to execution (Rex) vs mobility (Beck). Or consistency (Beck) vs great plays (Rex). Last season, Kyle pushed for Rex to start over McNabb. And Beck saw no playing time. This season, Shanny turned down Rex getting starting money, and has been opaque as usual about who he favors. Ought to be interesting.

[Snagletooth]

Has anyone compared Beck to Joe Montana yet? His accuracy in the short to intermediate pass game appears to be on an elite level, consistently. And that is a function of making quick reads, decisions, and having the confidence to pull the trigger as soon as that back foot hits the top of the drop.

He has the quick feet to avoid the rush, and to take advantage of the defense in the rollout game. But I havent seen enough yet. If the accuracy in the deep game, pushing the ball down field, and over the top, can approach that of the short game we will be serious contenders.

There are a number of passes we just havent seen Beck even attempt. The touch passes. The deep outs, fade. I would love to see one of those throws to the back shoulder. And most importantly pressure situations. I just don't see how Beck could have enough on field, live game, bullets flying, experience to effectively manage, let alone excel, in all the real game situations.

I like Rex for now. And I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. But I am ready and waiting to jump on the Beck Banbwagon with all my high hopes, and Joe Montana expectations.

[GWinSkins83]

The answer to your last yelling, is that Rex fits the system better. Because he makes better reads and knows the system better.

If Rex gains a step, yes he can turn the corner. Not saying he'll go far (and neither will Beck), but think about what you said.

And no, Beck can't turn a standard rollout into a long run like Young could. Let alone try to run like a rb in open space like Young did.

In the games we've seen this preseason, Rex has done just as good a job of avoiding pressure in the pocket as Beck has. It's on the bootleg where Beck's speed has made a difference.

It may come down to execution (Rex) vs mobility (Beck). Or consistency (Beck) vs great plays (Rex). Last season, Kyle pushed for Rex to start over McNabb. And Beck saw no playing time. This season, Shanny turned down Rex getting starting money, and has been opaque as usual about who he favors. Ought to be interesting.

We'll see I hope you got another Sig probably with Grossman with a helmet on holding a clipboard. Ha!

[HailGreen28]

We'll see I hope you got another Sig probably with Grossman with a helmet on holding a clipboard. Ha!

Aw, I don't think Beck's ready to give up his clipboard yet. But we'll see.