Prediction: The 2011 Skins Offense Will Perform Above Average in the Red Zone

[KCClybun]

I think we're going to see a lot more of Fred Davis in the red zone. I was surprised it was Sellers running that play for the tight end and not Davis, since it seems like Davis was developing into the red zone guy last season, but maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think we'll be above average, but I think we'll be at league average in terms of red zone efficiency.

[TheRookie]

I haven't had a chance to watch the game yet, but sheesh :doh: Has anbody explanied to sellers that the goal line, although intended to be considered as a "plane", its an imaginary "plane", and he doesn't have to worry about tripping on it. It seems like that guy can't stay on his feet if he's anywhere within 10 feet of that thing.

I know you haven't actually seen the play yet...but, to be fair to Mike, he got tripped up from behind by the defender. No call on the play as it was deemed incidental contact, but it wasn't like he fell over himself.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I haven't had a chance to watch the game yet, but sheesh :doh: Has anbody explanied to sellers that the goal line, although intended to be considered as a "plane", its an imaginary "plane", and he doesn't have to worry about tripping on it. It seems like that guy can't stay on his feet if he's anywhere within 10 feet of that thing..

I think this one was more bad luck. He got his feet tangled with the defender, and toppled over.

[Hitman21ST]

The John Beck advantages: Beck’s mobility is a major plus in the RZ as are his sharp, accurate passes. In other words, the same advantages that will enable him to play the ball control game well, will apply even more in the compressed area of the RZ.

The Cooley-Davis advantage: The versatility of these two, blocking and receiving, should be a big plus in the RZ.

To add to those two, having the big bodies to be able to go 3 and 4 WR sets will help also. Gaffney, Hankerson, Davis, and Cooley is a good 4 WR set (assuming Davis and Cooley line up as a WR) in the red zone. Great size between those 4.

Another good assessment :thumbsup:

[MintSkinz]

Fewer turnovers with Beck. I'd give him a nudge ahead of Rex in the red zone.

And to those who criticize Beck's deep-throwing ability, well, we just have to wait it out until he throws one

[Skinsinparadise]

Beck according to one of the reporters reviewing tape post game would have had a TD throw if the TE didn't trip in the end zone, forgot which TE that was maybe Davis? As for Hankerson, he IMO looked good after the first drop, had the most yardage I believe on the night for a WR, so am not ruling him out. Shanny said in his post game interview that for the red zone its about game planning and he more or less said they didn't game plan for the game and won't do so this preseason -- in other words seems like he wants to hold his cards for the element of surprise.

Wonder where all the Beck haters are today? You got me if he's the real goods but its a good start. I never got how people could just rule him out based on 4 games in 2007. I was listening to sports talk pre game and a bunch of people were convinced that Beck would stink and show Shanny to be the fool. Chad Dukes from 106.7 for weeks has been ridiculing callers who had some faith in Beck.

[tibbidoe]

I just hate that every pass play seems to be something short of the goal line. I want to see more pass plays into the end zone...

[Oldfan]

Beck according to one of the reporters reviewing tape post game would have had a TD throw if the TE didn't trip in the end zone, forgot which TE that was maybe Davis? As for Hankerson, he IMO looked good after the first drop, had the most yardage I believe on the night for a WR, so am not ruling him out. Shanny said in his post game interview that for the red zone its about game planning and he more or less said they didn't game plan for the game and won't do so this preseason -- in other words seems like he wants to hold his cards for the element of surprise.

Wonder where all the Beck haters are today? You got me if he's the real goods but its a good start. I never got how people could just rule him out based on 4 games in 2007. I was listening to sports talk pre game and a bunch of people were convinced that Beck would stink and show Shanny to be the fool. Chad Dukes from 106.7 for weeks has been ridiculing callers who had some faith in Beck.

Sellers tangled feet with a defender. Beck's throw was right there.

I pointed out in the OP that I wouldn't expect the Shanahans to tip their hand with good RZ plays in the preseason. So, I appreciate the confirmation on that point.

[Skinsinparadise]

I pointed out in the OP that I wouldn't expect the Shanahans to tip their hand with good RZ plays in the preseason. So, I appreciate the confirmation on that point.

Here was one of them:

"It's always disappointing when you don't get the ball in the end zone, there's no question about that. But that's why you have to game plan the red zone. Hopefully we do get better when we game plan."

http://www.1070thefan.com/news/story.aspx?ID=1525435

[Fresh8686]

For the guys who know better about this stuff... is it just me or is there an inherent weakness with the zbs and producing rushing td's in the redzone? The reason I ask is because it seems to me the athleticism we look for in our linemen is negated in goal line situations were the field of play is compressed and pounding it through to the endzone becomes contigent upon purely manhandling the opponent in front of you, who will most likely be crowding the line with about everyone they've got.

[Oldfan]

For the guys who know better about this stuff... is it just me or is there an inherent weakness with the zbs and producing rushing td's in the redzone? The reason I ask is because it seems to me the athleticism we look for in our linemen is negated in goal line situations were the field of play is compressed and pounding it through to the endzone becomes contigent upon purely manhandling the opponent in front of you, who will most likely be crowding the line with about everyone they've got.

Sounds like you missed this line in the OP.

"The ZBS disadvantage: A power blocking scheme, with bigger O-linemen would be better in the RZ. Mike Shanahan’s Broncos were not a great RZ team."

[THEREALTOR1]

For the guys who know better about this stuff... is it just me or is there an inherent weakness with the zbs and producing rushing td's in the redzone? The reason I ask is because it seems to me the athleticism we look for in our linemen is negated in goal line situations were the field of play is compressed and pounding it through to the endzone becomes contigent upon purely manhandling the opponent in front of you, who will most likely be crowding the line with about everyone they've got.

I would admit the rushing yds could become scarce with a zbs -vs- power run scheme, but if the D is pressing the line why couldn't you just use that to your advantage? Ignore the run and have your QB run a deep drop, (almost backpedal 7,9 steps or more), and allow your OL to be pushed back with the QB, creating a pocket behind the DL and in front of the endzone that you could run crossing patterns through with your WR's & TE's. If nothing's open, throw it OB and try again.

[RandyHolt]

The ZBS seems somewhat less effective on a short field. The box is packed in, the D loaded up for the run. We have to go play action more than a traditional Gibbs Jumbo Heavy look that is almost imprinted in long time Skins fans DNA. Or show pass, go 4 wide, and then run it up the gut.

[Oldfan]

I would admit the rushing yds could become scarce with a zbs -vs- power run scheme, but if the D is pressing the line why couldn't you just use that to your advantage? Ignore the run and have your QB run a deep drop, (almost backpedal 7,9 steps or more), and allow your OL to be pushed back with the QB, creating a pocket behind the DL and in front of the endzone that you could run crossing patterns through with your WR's & TE's. If nothing's open, throw it OB and try again.

Something like that could work now and then. But, if you do the unexpected often enough, it becomes the expected.

I think the zone stretch is a useful play in the RZ, but in the final analysis, the lighter O-linemen are a disadvantage in the RZ. It's just one of those minuses you have to account for when you choose a scheme. The major plus that offsets it is that you hope to have many more RZ opportunities when you use the ZBS.

[THEREALTOR1]

Something like that could work now and then. But, if you do the unexpected often enough, it becomes the expected.

I think the zone stretch is a useful play in the RZ, but in the final analysis, the lighter O-linemen are a disadvantage in the RZ. It's just one of those minuses you have to account for when you choose a scheme. The major plus that offsets it is that you hope to have many more RZ opportunities when you use the ZBS.

I agree, you know going in with the ZBS that you're more than likely not gonna win a battle of the lines. I think one of the best ways to offset that is with larger WR's & TE's. As long as the line can hold long enough to allow a competent QB enough time to scan the matchups, he can potentially find a mismatch and take the opportunity to pick on it, like a TE matched up with a CB or undersized S. Just like any good scheme, you gotta have all the right pieces to make it work in its entirety.

[Oldfan]

I agree, you know going in with the ZBS that you're more than likely not gonna win a battle of the lines. I think one of the best ways to offset that is with larger WR's & TE's. As long as the line can hold long enough to allow a competent QB enough time to scan the matchups, he can potentially find a mismatch and take the opportunity to pick on it, like a TE matched up with a CB or undersized S. Just like any good scheme, you gotta have all the right pieces to make it work in its entirety.

I think the Shanahans just accept the idea that they are gong to have to pass more in the red zone than the power running teams.

There are two variables in the equation. How many trips do you make to the red zone, and what percentage end up in TDs? So, if you make lots more trips, it doesn't matter if your success percentage is a bit lower than other teams.

[THEREALTOR1]

I think the Shanahans just accept the idea that they are gong to have to pass more in the red zone than the power running teams.

There are two variables in the equation. How many trips do you make to the red zone, and what percentage end up in TDs? So, if you make lots more trips, it doesn't matter if your success percentage is a bit lower than other teams.

It would be nice to see us minimize the 3 and outs and put together more "clock killing" field drives. I agree the law of averages would tend to favor the consistent team. With most drives appearing as though they will now be starting from the 20, the teams that have the ability to consistently drive the ball down the field to the RZ should be at an advantage against the teams that rely on the hit/miss quick strike and only get down into the RZ intermittantly.

[GWinSkins83]

I think ZBS is not the problem. Its the Linemen getting tired. Dlines are rotating while an Oline stays on the field cause whos going to sub your starting center or tackles out for second string to protect your QB. Thats where the oline is just gased going like 60, 70, 80 yards the whole way and the dline had been getting rest on the sideline while we are driving. But I just hope we get more of the bootlegs ten yards away from a TD. Than Beck can either run it in or pass it.

[Darth Tater]

For the guys who know better about this stuff... is it just me or is there an inherent weakness with the zbs and producing rushing td's in the redzone? The reason I ask is because it seems to me the athleticism we look for in our linemen is negated in goal line situations were the field of play is compressed and pounding it through to the endzone becomes contigent upon purely manhandling the opponent in front of you, who will most likely be crowding the line with about everyone they've got.

Yes and no, depends on how the refs are dealing with things like the 5 yard rule. If they are really being sticklers, it is probably going to have the advantage but if they aren't, you'll likely be at a disadvantage. Now, you also have the disadvantage that you are usually dead if the backside doesn't hold long enough. Also, you are probably going to be at a disadvantage if you are less than a yard out or more than 5 out but inside the 10 in any case.

---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 07:25 PM ----------

I would admit the rushing yds could become scarce with a zbs -vs- power run scheme, but if the D is pressing the line why couldn't you just use that to your advantage? Ignore the run and have your QB run a deep drop, (almost backpedal 7,9 steps or more), and allow your OL to be pushed back with the QB, creating a pocket behind the DL and in front of the endzone that you could run crossing patterns through with your WR's & TE's. If nothing's open, throw it OB and try again.

That actually sounds close to one of the basic red zone plays the Redskins run. Now that I think about it, its very close to the what one of our base plays from just about anywhere.

[THEREALTOR1]

That actually sounds close to one of the basic red zone plays the Redskins run. Now that I think about it, its very close to the what one of our base plays from just about anywhere.

I just saw the saints run this scenario, almost to a T, about 15 minutes ago, except it wasn't a crossing pattern just a short hitch behind the backs of the D lineman

[Mania]

Old fan, I agree with you, but I remember an old thread started by you "Shanahan Your Losing Me". Have you jumped back on the shanahan bandwagon.

[Oldfan]

Old fan, I agree with you, but I remember an old thread started by you "Shanahan Your Losing Me". Have you jumped back on the shanahan bandwagon.

I was never on the Shanahan bandwagon because he had never demonstrated the willingness to rebuild a team. He surprised me this past offseason with the youth movement and changed my mind. I'm now satisfied that he's really trying to build a championship team. Now, we'll find out if he has the ability.

[2STaylor1]

i think the people who are talking about the 2 TE sets are right on, we need the bigger bodies running routes in the endzone in goal line chances