Daniel M. Snyder: Is he really a "new" owner, or just a more cunning version of the old one.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'll believe Danny has changed as an owner when we have a no name GM and a no name coach and Danny stays out of the football ops. So far that trifecta has never once happened.

Interesting POV scruff.

So for you, regardless of how dedicated, hard working and honest to the cause they may or may not be; the only way to build it right, so to speak, would to be hire a no-name GM and HC?

I'd be curious to hear your reasoning behind that view point, if I'm not reading way more into it then you wrote,

Hail.

[Oldfan]

So hiring a win now coach and a yes man GM is not shortsighted?

Hold on now! If Dan's goal was a quick return to mediocrity (7-9 to 9-7) those hirings were brilliant.:evilg:

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Hold on now! If Dan's goal was a quick return to mediocrity (7-9 to 9-7) those hirings were brilliant.:evilg:

*Chuckles. That was good for this time in the AM.

Hail.

[hail2skins]

Interesting POV scruff.

So for you, regardless of how dedicated, hard working and honest to the cause they may or may not be; the only way to build it right, so to speak, would to be hire a no-name GM and HC?

GHH, obviously consistent winning is the goal, and as fans we'll be happy to take it no matter what the structure is. I think what Scruff is referring to is the statement made by Snyder several times in the past year, including last week to some local media members, that he "doesn't have to be involved" as long as he "has a strong head coach who is fully in charge of football operations," and names Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan. A statement like this makes one wonder if we'll have the choice of either a) a big name/retread or a meddling owner, as long as Snyder owns the team.

Its something hopefully we won't have to worry about for a while. I'd like Mike to coach for between 7-10 years here and if Kyle is still on the staff and has done a good job as the O-coord, then I'd have no problem with him succeeding his father. However, if not, it'll be interesting to see what happens the next time Dan has to fill the vacancy.

[Forever21]

The 'Skins could win 5 consecutive SB's and people will still hate and distrust Snyder.

He has obviously backed off.

Can we stop talking about him now?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Its something hopefully we won't have to worry about for a while. I'd like Mike to coach for between 7-10 years here and if Kyle is still on the staff and has done a good job as the O-coord, then I'd have no problem with him succeeding his father. However, if not, it'll be interesting to see what happens the next time Dan has to fill the vacancy.

That was kinda' what brought about wanting to know how folk stand on the owner as of now. We can all speculate what he may or may not do in the future. And he's rightly been castigated over hill and under hill for his past failings. But since the end of '09, when he finally bit the bullet, fired Vinny, stepped back and handed the keys over to Allen; he's been hard to fault as the perfect prototype of what you'd like an owner to be. At least as regards the ultimate goal, the actual football team.

But sadly, and understandably to a degree, some can't look at the here and now without continuing to either slam him for the past; or what they perceive will only happen again in the future. That, to me, is a totally asinine, insular way of thinking.

The Washington Redskins are one of the most profitable sports franchises the World over. Snyder's 45. A relatively young man with a cash cow on his hands. He's going nowhere fast. If we don't give him the chance to turn himself and this franchise around by doing what the majority have craved for so long; WITHOUT bashing him for the past at every verse end; then just what does that say about us as a fanbase? And just what chance do we have as an organization going forward?

Hail.

[Oldfan]

...But sadly, and understandably to a degree, some can't look at the here and now without continuing to either slam him for the past; or what they perceive will only happen again in the future. That, to me, is a totally asinine, insular way of thinking.

The Washington Redskins are one of the most profitable sports franchises the World over. Snyder's 45. A relatively young man with a cash cow on his hands. He's going nowhere fast. If we don't give him the chance to turn himself and this franchise around by doing what the majority have craved for so long; WITHOUT bashing him for the past at every verse end; then just what does that say about us as a fanbase? And just what chance do we have as an organization going forward?

I think Snyder has ALWAYS tried to give Redskins fans what they want. What they want is to build a perennial winner with a win now plan.

I think most Skins fans are dummies and Snyder is a dummy for trying to give the fans what they want.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think Snyder has ALWAYS tried to give Redskins fans what they want. What they want is to build a perennial winner with a win now plan.

I think most Skins fans are dummies and Snyder is a dummy for trying to give the fans what they want.

Whilst I'd totally disagree he's given Redskins fans what we want (he's never, up to the end of the '09 season, committed to building a 'perennial winner' the right way. It's always been a 'win now with flashy names to bring in the big bucks and publicity' scenario); I totally and utterly agree about most 'Skins fans being dummies. And contradictory, confused ones at that.

I brought up similar a ways back here: http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?340147-The-bi-polar-nature-of-the-modern-Redskin-fan.

Hail.

[HailGreen28]

The 'Skins could win 5 consecutive SB's and people will still hate and distrust Snyder.

He has obviously backed off.

Can we stop talking about him now?

No, because Danny has pulled this crap before. Danny already backed off for one year when he hired Schottenheimer. Then at the end of the season fired Schotty, brought back Vinny, and ran the team into the ground again.

Now if we go consecutive seasons where Danny appears to be leaving football to the football people, I and I suspect others, will breathe easier.

[DC9]

The 'Skins could win 5 consecutive SB's and people will still hate and distrust Snyder.

He has obviously backed off.

Can we stop talking about him now?

I would name one of my kids after him if the Redskins won 5 consecutive Super Bowls, and so would you.

HAIL!

[Rocky21]

Has Snyder changed? What exactly is his involvement in football decisions? Interesting questions that seem to get asked and re-asked about every 3 months around here. Here are a couple of points to ponder when considering the questions at hand.

Here is a direct quote from Joe Gibbs. “The three of us normally at the end of it try and come up with a final game plan for the draft," Gibbs said. The three of us being Gibbs, Cerrato and Snyder. "Dan's philosophy is to be aggressive," Gibbs said. "We fall in the category of being more aggressive and it's based on Dan being as aggressive as he is."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042402340.html

And here is another direct quote from Joe Gibbs. “We talk a lot,” Gibbs says. “We are back and forth all the time. We work down the hall from one another. “I count on his opinion. He’s very instrumental on the draft, the salary-cap, free agency, strategy on how the team should be built.”

http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/sports/1679.html

Now here is a direct quote from Snyder, taken within the last week. "You know what’s interesting ... is a little bit of a misperception here," Snyder said. "When Joe Gibbs was here for over four seasons, nobody came to talk to me about football…”

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8200e43f/article/snyder-on-football-operations-i-dont-want-to-be-involved?module=HP_headlines

As a Skins fan, believe me, I understand the need to believe that Snyder has changed. This is our team. He is relatively young and we appear to be stuck with him for a LONG time so we want to believe he has changed. He is clearly deceiving us about his role in football operations in the past. Is he continuing to deceive us about his role on the football side of things in the present?

Do you believe what he is putting out in the public eye after reading the above? Whether you feel Snyder deserves the benefit of the doubt after witnessing the first 12 years of his stewardship of the franchise, that one’s up to you.

Hail!

[The Tris]

Jim Zorn and Cerrato are gone

The implication being "Anyone other than them is an improvement." I agree, but we need to stop measuring ourselves based on our awful past and starting measuring ourselves based on the best Front Offices in the NFL.

This draft shows Shanny isn't just about "win now,"

I agree. This draft was awesome for building a consistent winner. We need several more just like it.

However, the majority of the other personnel moves we have made since Mike Shanahan took over have reeked of win now. For a team as thread bare as ours, we need few and far between win now moves, and more rebuilding ones. Thus far, Mike has not demonstrated than, which is in line with his past history with the Broncos once he took over full control of football operations. He is a retooler, not a rebuilder.

and other than your conjecture, what solid evidence do you have that Allen is a yes man?

He does not have final say over football decisions.

I guess when you're obsessed with hating on one man to the point you'll never concede any of his positives but will over-exaggerate and fabricate the negatives then you'd come up with such a post as yours.

Mike Shanahan is a fantastic drafter and brilliant coach. Bruce Allen is a top notch cap manager and excellent PR man.

Neither are good with FA acquisitions, nor have either presided over a rebuilding operation.

A purely win now coach would have drafted Gabbert instead of being patient at the QB position

You think drafting and developing a QB is win now, and signing a FA vet is building for the future? OK...

a yes man GM would be allowing Snyder to have his say and would be going nuts in FA, instead of handing out reasonable contracts like Allen has been doing and not overbidding for players (like with Atogwe we made an offer, let him see what else was out there, and patiently waited to see if he would choose use, in years past Atogwe would have gotten a ridiculous contract while being wined and dined in DC).

I don’t know what rebuild is...London Fletcher deserves the opportunity to try and win every game we play, and that's what our organization is gonna focus on. - Allen 5/9/11

We prepared for various options and will be able to be as aggressive as any team in the league based on what the rules are. - Allen 5/20/11

Let's just wait and see what happens when/if a new CBA gets done. If we pass on Cullen Jenkins and Jonathan Joseph and Vince Young, then I'll say we have changed our approach. If we sign a bunch of top flight FAs, will you concede that while we have a new FO, they are following the same flawed team building playbook that their predecessors followed?

It's always been a 'win now with flashy names to bring in the big bucks and publicity' scenario.

I'd say Mike Shanahan is among the flashest names Snyder has signed since he has been an owner.

And what did Snyder's selection for HC do in his first major personnel move? Signed the biggest name player since Snyder has been owner.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'd say Mike Shanahan is among the flashest names Snyder has signed since he has been an owner.

And what did Snyder's selection for HC do in his first major personnel move? Signed the biggest name player since Snyder has been owner.

Not by choice.

He went in hard for Braford by all accounts. REAL hard. But sadly didn't have quite enough ammo to sway the Rams. So we end up with a QB we they didn't want (Campbell) and Grossman or Beck. Throw in he intended to implement a completely new offense and defensive scheme, and on the face of it the best available, proven QB out there to help with that transition seemed, at the time anyway's for a 2nd and 4th, a fair price to pay. To me anyway's.

It obviously didn't turn out that way but it certainly wasn't by design that we ended up with McNabb.

Hail.

[skinsrbeast]

standard has Snyder changed thread.

insert "No he hasn't he sucks: post

insert "he spends money and donates to charity so therefore he is good" post

insert "true anecdotal story about something Snyder did which shows he was a dick" post

insert "hopefully he's better now" post

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Do you believe what he is putting out in the public eye after reading the above?

More importantly, do you believe what Shanahan and Allen are putting out in the public? Because they have been saying the exact opposite of what Gibbs was saying. Snyder's current attempts at burnishing his rep don't outweigh Shanny and Allen's words, imo.

---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 08:24 AM ----------

standard has Snyder changed thread.

insert "No he hasn't he sucks: post

insert "he spends money and donates to charity so therefore he is good" post

insert "true anecdotal story about something Snyder did which shows he was a dick" post

insert "hopefully he's better now" post

Insert obligatory "Insert (fill in the blank) post" post

[Rocky21]

More importantly, do you believe what Shanahan and Allen are putting out in the public? Because they have been saying the exact opposite of what Gibbs was saying. Snyder's current attempts at burnishing his rep don't outweigh Shanny and Allen's words, imo.

I wanted to ask the question in my post above if folks think Snyder has changed and can now be trusted to tell us the truth when he has been caught in a lie about his role in football operations within the past 5 days. What has shown you that Snyder can be trusted in this regard?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I wanted to ask the question in my post above if folks think Snyder has changed and can now be trusted to tell us the truth when he has been caught in a lie about his role in football operations within the past 5 days. What has shown you that Snyder can be trusted in this regard?

I don't think too many fans were worried about not being able to fully trust Snyder's words in the press, though lol ...The top 5 areas in which fans wanted Snyder to change were:

- Stay out of day-to-day football operations and decisions (check)

- Hire a qualified "football man" as GM and get rid of Vinny (check)

- Don't force your FO to go out and sign "sexy" FAs to big-buck contracts (check, so far)

- Don't force your FO to trade away the future by trading draft picks for questionable vets (debatable as to his role in McNabb)

- Don't circumvent the player-coach protocol by letting players come to you directly to complain (check)

"Be accurate in your media statements" really wasn't on the list...nobody took part in the "fan revolt" because Snyder said something during an interview that they didn't think was true lol...

[CrypticVillain]

Insert obligatory "Insert (fill in the blank) post" post

:owned:

I never really hated Snyder. To me, he always did what he thought would help the team. I can't fault him if players didn't play up to their contracts. Good for him that he has finally let a NFL coach and run the team and stay the heck out. I don't care what he says, he meddled with Gibbs. 2006 was the perfect example. But now, he seems to have the hang of things, the rest is on the Shoulders of Shanahan and Allen.

[Wildbunny]

No, because Danny has pulled this crap before. Danny already backed off for one year when he hired Schottenheimer. Then at the end of the season fired Schotty, brought back Vinny, and ran the team into the ground again.

Now if we go consecutive seasons where Danny appears to be leaving football to the football people, I and I suspect others, will breathe easier.

With all that Lockout mess I haven't noticed Danny had fire Shanahan and Allen... Silly me...

[ouvan59]

I wanted to ask the question in my post above if folks think Snyder has changed and can now be trusted to tell us the truth when he has been caught in a lie about his role in football operations within the past 5 days. What has shown you that Snyder can be trusted in this regard?

Well the real question is what difference does it make whether you trust him or not? It is what it is and we've got what we've got. So the ball is in your (our) court. Either we are going to spend money or we're not.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

GHH, obviously consistent winning is the goal, and as fans we'll be happy to take it no matter what the structure is. I think what Scruff is referring to is the statement made by Snyder several times in the past year, including last week to some local media members, that he "doesn't have to be involved" as long as he "has a strong head coach who is fully in charge of football operations," and names Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan. A statement like this makes one wonder if we'll have the choice of either a) a big name/retread or a meddling owner, as long as Snyder owns the team.

There's also the possibility of a "no-name" head coach and "no-name" GM ALSO being "strong"...Snyder's comment to me seem to say that neither Vinny/Zorn nor Vinny/Spurrier were strong duos...those were the tenures in which Snyder was the most heavily involved.

Its something hopefully we won't have to worry about for a while. I'd like Mike to coach for between 7-10 years here and if Kyle is still on the staff and has done a good job as the O-coord, then I'd have no problem with him succeeding his father. However, if not, it'll be interesting to see what happens the next time Dan has to fill the vacancy.

That's the beauty of actually, FINALLY, hiring a legitimate GM...hiring a new head coach is the GM's job, not the owner's. Yes, the GM has to sell his coaching decision to the owner...but the whole process is handled specifically by the GM. So in my eyes, it will be interesting to see what happens when Allen has to make a decision about who will replace Shanny.

[MartinC]

That's the beauty of actually, FINALLY, hiring a legitimate GM...hiring a new head coach is the GM's job, not the owner's. Yes, the GM has to sell his coaching decision to the owner...but the whole process is handled specifically by the GM. So in my eyes, it will be interesting to see what happens when Allen has to make a decision about who will replace Shanny.

My perception is that Shanny has final say and Allen his Shannys chioce as the guy who manages the contracts, coordinating the personnel and scouting side and front office. If Shanny gets fired my thinking is Allen goes with him and THEN its gets interesting.

Lets just hope that Shanny wins and we dont have to cross that bridge for a while and in a positive context not a negative one.

[88Comrade2000]

I say it's superficial. Here's what will convince me Dan has changed. He allows Shanny to complete his 5 years and then allows quality head coach with Bruce Allen as GM succeed Shanny and let them run things. Then I will believe things will be different. Let Shanny have a bad year this year, will Danny resist the urge to fire him. Year 3 going through the growing pains with a rookie QB, will Danny resist the urge to fire Shanny after a year 3?

The answer to this question and the other question- it's really way to early.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

My perception is that Shanny has final say and Allen his Shannys chioce as the guy who manages the contracts, coordinating the personnel and scouting side and front office. If Shanny gets fired my thinking is Allen goes with him and THEN its gets interesting.

I would bet you a year's salary that Allen does not leave when Shanahan is no longer here...only way that happens is if Allen decides to quit on his own, but I don't see that happening at the same time as Shanny leaving. Snyder wanted to replace Vinny with Allen back during Gibbs' tenure here...so it's hardly that Shanahan forced Allen on Snyder.

[MartinC]

I say it's superficial. Here's what will convince me Dan has changed. He allows Shanny to complete his 5 years and then allows quality head coach with Bruce Allen as GM succeed Shanny and let them run things. Then I will believe things will be different. Let Shanny have a bad year this year, will Danny resist the urge to fire him. Year 3 going through the growing pains with a rookie QB, will Danny resist the urge to fire Shanny after a year 3?

The answer to this question and the other question- it's really way to early.

With the lockout Shanny will get a pass on this year and will be back for year 3 almost come what may. That a good thing in my view - we need continuity almost at any cost.