**POLL** Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera

[rincewind]

I think if you asked Jeter who was the best SS of all time, he just might say Cal

You think Rivera would say he's the best closer of all-time? I sure as hell don't.

[Forehead]

Anyone that says Jeter doesn't understand baseball.

Get out of here with that garbage. I played baseball for 16 years and umpired for a decade (yes, some of those years overlapped) and I voted Jeter. I'll leave it at that since I refuse to argue such a stupid blanket statement.

[ixcuincle]

Jeter is declining and can't play the infield like he used to.

That being said, noted AP writer Ian O'Connor wrote a book about him which is on the NY Times bestseller list. Am a big geek when it comes to sports books so this is next on my list. Only problem is the library doesn't carry it, and I'm not going to pay for a book which I'm only going to read once.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Anyone that says Jeter doesn't understand baseball.

No way. The save is completely overrated. For more on that: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805 And while Rivera is a great pitcher, there have been closers out there who could get the job done just as well for a season or two at a time. With the Yankees payroll it's quite conceivable that they could have picked up a new closer every 2-3 years and been just as fine.

Now, Rivera is probably hands down the best closer of all time, but I'm tired of people acting like he's infallible. People tend to forget the 2001 World Series and who was on the mound when Luis Gonzalez dinked that ball into the outfield to defeat the Yankees. Not to mention his own throwing error that helped set it all up. I also recall him blowing saves against the Red Sox in the 2004 postseason series as well when they came back from a 3-1 deficit. IIRC, he blew saves in back to back games which is bad enough but considering it helped the Sox pull off the biggest comeback in postseason history AND the fact that they're hated rivals, it's hard to ignore. I also remember seeing somewhere that Rivera's save percentage against the Red Sox is significantly lower than his career averages which isn't what you'd like to see considering their rivalry.

What we have here is a guy who just reached an impressive milestone (nothing to sneeze at, I'm just sayin) which have spawned a bunch of glowing articles about him and his career. Sportswriters love to bloviate about guys like Rivera when they reach a milestone like that.

I'm not a Rivera hater, I understand how great he's been. More importantly, he's probably one of the classiest individuals to ever play baseball as well. I just think the save is completely overrated and I think some baseball fans have selective memories as to certain moments in the postseason.

So I'm voting for Jeter. Granted, his postseason attributes are overhyped as well. Jeter's career slash line is .313/.383/.450 and his postseason slash line is .309/.377/.472. His career slash line for RISP is .302/.396/.424 and his career slash line for 2 out and RISP is .307/.408/.438. His career late and close situational hitting line is .290/.382/.414 In other words, it's a myth that he somehow elevates his game in the postseason. He is more or less the same hitter across the board, no matter the situation.

Although I'm voting for Jeter, it's pretty close. In the end, you can't fault for siding with either of them as they were both incredibly important to the Yankees since the mid 90's.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Mo had his bad moments but there is no better feeling than knowing he will always be there with the game on the line

DJ may have never even been close to the best but to ME, he's an underrated fielder and money in the playoffs

Look at the numbers, not even Cal can touch him in the biggest stage...in fact Cal batted near the Mendoza line in the 83 series if I'm correct (granted Cal never got the chances DJ did)

[sportjunkie07]

Anyone that says Jeter doesn't understand baseball.

anyone that makes this kind of blanket statement doesnt know anything about baseball. i really like rivera. i mean, he basically invented the cutter. he belongs in the hall of fame no questions asked and is the best closer of my generation.

but his overall effect on the game is less than that of a shortsop. mariano may have been better at his respective position, but jeter was more important to the team.

[Mufumonk]

You don't understand the effect Rivera has on the last 2-3 innings of a close game. He's not just shortening the game by 3 outs. So much of hitting is dictated on being loose/relaxed at the plate. That disappears from the 7th inning on when facing the prospect of MR coming in. The average shelf life of a closer is 3 years. The Yankees have had that ace in the whole for the last 15 years. The answer is Rivera and its not even close.

[ixcuincle]

No way. The save is completely overrated. For more on that: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/080805 And while Rivera is a great pitcher, there have been closers out there who could get the job done just as well for a season or two at a time. With the Yankees payroll it's quite conceivable that they could have picked up a new closer every 2-3 years and been just as fine.

Now, Rivera is probably hands down the best closer of all time, but I'm tired of people acting like he's infallible. People tend to forget the 2001 World Series and who was on the mound when Luis Gonzalez dinked that ball into the outfield to defeat the Yankees. Not to mention his own throwing error that helped set it all up. I also recall him blowing saves against the Red Sox in the 2004 postseason series as well when they came back from a 3-1 deficit. IIRC, he blew saves in back to back games which is bad enough but considering it helped the Sox pull off the biggest comeback in postseason history AND the fact that they're hated rivals, it's hard to ignore. I also remember seeing somewhere that Rivera's save percentage against the Red Sox is significantly lower than his career averages which isn't what you'd like to see considering their rivalry.

What we have here is a guy who just reached an impressive milestone (nothing to sneeze at, I'm just sayin) which have spawned a bunch of glowing articles about him and his career. Sportswriters love to bloviate about guys like Rivera when they reach a milestone like that.

I'm not a Rivera hater, I understand how great he's been. More importantly, he's probably one of the classiest individuals to ever play baseball as well. I just think the save is completely overrated and I think some baseball fans have selective memories as to certain moments in the postseason.

So I'm voting for Jeter. Granted, his postseason attributes are overhyped as well. Jeter's career slash line is .313/.383/.450 and his postseason slash line is .309/.377/.472. His career slash line for RISP is .302/.396/.424 and his career slash line for 2 out and RISP is .307/.408/.438. His career late and close situational hitting line is .290/.382/.414 In other words, it's a myth that he somehow elevates his game in the postseason. He is more or less the same hitter across the board, no matter the situation.

Although I'm voting for Jeter, it's pretty close. In the end, you can't fault for siding with either of them as they were both incredibly important to the Yankees since the mid 90's.

Intriguing argument against Mo here

Save is kind of overrated too

There is no "correct" answer and this is debate, but I chose Mariano.

[pjfootballer]

Now, Rivera is probably hands down the best closer of all time, but I'm tired of people acting like he's infallible. People tend to forget the 2001 World Series and who was on the mound when Luis Gonzalez dinked that ball into the outfield to defeat the Yankees. Not to mention his own throwing error that helped set it all up. I also recall him blowing saves against the Red Sox in the 2004 postseason series as well when they came back from a 3-1 deficit. IIRC, he blew saves in back to back games which is bad enough but considering it helped the Sox pull off the biggest comeback in postseason history AND the fact that they're hated rivals, it's hard to ignore. I also remember seeing somewhere that Rivera's save percentage against the Red Sox is significantly lower than his career averages which isn't what you'd like to see considering their rivalry.

It would be inconceivable to think that Rivera could be perfect in every WS he's been in. The Yankees have been in what, 6 WS in his career. Blowing a game 7 WS game "In Arizona" on a bloop was bound to happen. And regarding Boston, every player has his one team he struggles against. If it were the Royals or Mariners, it might be concerning, but Boston has been just as good a team, so it's not surprising he might struggle against them.

[stanleys]

If the poll was "better at their respective position compared to all-time greats", it's Rivera by a country mile...but the poll is "more important"...we know whom the Yankees feel is more important (hint it's the one with the "captain" next to his name.)

---------- Post added May-27th-2011 at 04:36 PM ----------

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here. Sure, Rivera was an awesome weapon for shutting down the game after the 8th inning, but Jeter plays every day, plays through the entire game, and in many circumstances was at least partially if not solely responsible for the lead that Rivera was protecting. Plus he's played solid defense at one of the toughest defensive positions for about 12 years (not so much in the last 4).

Mariano Rivera never scored a run. Derek Jeter scored 1700 of them.

Mariano Rivera never batted in a run. Derek Jeter has 1150 of them.

Last I checked, the goal is to score more runs than the other team.

You're incorrect. Rivera does have an RBI.

[Redskin4ever]

This is not even close. Rivera was much more important. No one can do what he does. Trevor Hoffman was the closest in this generation of players, but Hoffman couldn't get it done in the WS against the Yankees. Rivera was the most reliable and dependable closer.