NFA - Mike Shanahan's Ego Has the Washington Redskins Set Up to Fall Face First

[SirClintonPortis]

This organization is still in better shape than when Snyder tried to be a "part-time CEO" of sorts of football operations. Oh, and that clique of players on the team that includes Rogers,etc who don't want to put in the max effort towards football and instead focus of on off-field fun can't leave soon enough.

[Wyvern]

A couple of things stick out here. Jason Campbell did not have a better year last year than he did here. He had the exact same season he did the last three seasons. The games they won with him as a starter was because they didn't let him throw the ball. He still was maddeningly slow going through his progressions. He still refuses to throw a ball to a receiver before he comes out of his break. And for a guy with a strong arm he throws a terrible deep ball.

Secondly, you can whine and moan all you want about Shanahan benching McNabb for a QB as bad as Grossman but it worked. The offense was ten times better after McNabb was benched. The team came out of the huddle quicker and they brought the short and intermediate passing game back into play. Grossman stinks. At this point in his career McNabb is worse.

I want to thank you for sharing a reality check on Jason Campbell's performance with the Raiders. I agree completely -- he's still got a ways to go, before I consider him much above a journeyman QB who landed in the right spot.

As for Grossman, he showed me he has all the passes, but not the consistency, patience, and decision-making we need from a season-long starter. He still needs to take care of the ball better and avoid gambling on possible turnovers. He'd still be a decent backup in this system, until the Skins get 'their' young QB to groom for the future. However, unless circumstances change radically, I can't see any scenario where the Skins would keep trying to make McNabb fit in this system.

As for Shanahan, he still seems in the 'back-to-basics' mode --- and the team does seem to be undergoing a methodical rebuild. It's a slow and methodical way forward, and we need to be patient with the the bumps along the way.

The kind of players being retained are players who can buy into Shanahan's program with a mix of veterans who can groom the next group of team leaders. For this reason, I like the Otogwe signing -- because as a former captain, I feel he's going to settle down that secondary that tended to freelance a bit too much last season, and maybe foster better 'team-habits'.

Let's acknowledge that Shanhan's Skins had to start from a long way back -- with very little of value left in Vinny's cupboard. So Shanahan is bringing in 'his' guys -- and seeing who'll fit, who'll step up, and who'll get with the team program. And that's how you build a basis for a team. While QB is currently an issue, Shanahan does have a 5th year QB candidate (allegedly someone he's liked in the past) and an owner willing to step up to sign a FA QB should Beck flop.

The point here is that we're probably looking at one more year of rebuilding before the defense is decent again, and the offense can stay on the field longer and put up enough points to win. Next year's draft is loaded with good QB candidates and by 2013 the Skins would have a lot of good players in place, and confident in their roles in the offense. The future looks decent -- assuming we're all patient with the transition.

[clarkskin]

Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!

Good point. I can't believe how many people just think McNabb sucks now given his track record. It sounds now like Shanny Jr. had some beef with McNabb even before he arrived from the trade. Doesn't really seem like 13 games is a real fair shake to me.

[KDawg]

Good point. I can't believe how many people just think McNabb sucks now given his track record. It sounds now like Shanny Jr. had some beef with McNabb even before he arrived from the trade. Doesn't really seem like 13 games is a real fair shake to me.

Or McNabb doesn't fit the offense and doesn't belong in DC and probably never did.

That's not a knock on him. It's a simple 'He didn't fit"

[The Tris]

The point here is that we're probably looking at one more year of rebuilding before the defense is decent again, and the offense can stay on the field longer and put up enough points to win. Next year's draft is loaded with good QB candidates and by 2013 the Skins would have a lot of good players in place, and confident in their roles in the offense. The future looks decent -- assuming we're all patient with the transition.

I completely agree that we are looking at a year or more of rebuilding this team before we can expect any substaintial playoff potential.

That is the whole reason why the McNabb and Brown moves are so troubling, and such mistakes (that Shanahan deserves to be criticized for). Likewise, that is the reason that the suggestions of our heavy use of free agency are so worrisome.

The future does look decent - assuming Shanahan himself is patient with the transition. Thus far he has not shown complete patience for a full rebuild

[Rodriggo]

The only thing going for Shanahan is that the majority of the fan base would rather have a senile washed up old coach "running" things than Snyder and his cronies. The ONLY thing.

Shanahan tried to break Haynesworth and now instead of a 2nd and 3rd round pick we'll have a beached whale blow up party in a couple of months. Free Blubber everybody!!!

Shanahan brought McNabb here, no getting around it. I remember him on Redskins Cam on draft day in his gansta' lean and a **** eating grin saying "We just drafted Donovan McNabb with the 37th pick." Not seven months later he's pulling him in a close game and a still competitive season for Rex Grossman....Uh, OK Chief. He brought in a vet that little Kyle couldn't coach and instead of making the best of it he distanced, lied and unfairly undermined a borderline HOFer and embarrassed himself in the process.

Good thing for Shanahan is that this team has no shame left.

[ouvan59]

:

The fans should hold signs up again, telling Snyder to be patient stick with the plan.

However I'm afraid Dan is to worried about making $$$$$$ money than sticking with a rebuild plan but, hey Dan you do realize that you can make your own superstars through thr draft instead of buying them right?

The fans should hold up the signs to themselves. As much as our fanbase preaches patience, we have none. None.

Also, I don't Snyder has ever been about just making money. Don't get me wrong, he tries to squeeze as much blood from the fans as he can but it's never at the expense of winning. His ego and belief that he could play fantasy football with the team got in the way but never money.

---------- Post added May-17th-2011 at 11:44 AM ----------

The only thing going for Shanahan is that the majority of the fan base would rather have a senile washed up old coach "running" things than Snyder and his cronies. The ONLY thing.

Shanahan tried to break Haynesworth and now instead of a 2nd and 3rd round pick we'll have a beached whale blow up party in a couple of months. Free Blubber everybody!!!

Shanahan brought McNabb here, no getting around it. I remember him on Redskins Cam on draft day in his gansta' lean and a **** eating grin saying "We just drafted Donovan McNabb with the 37th pick." Not seven months later he's pulling him in a close game and a still competitive season for Rex Grossman....Uh, OK Chief. He brought in a vet that little Kyle couldn't coach and instead of making the best of it he distanced, lied and unfairly undermined a borderline HOFer and embarrassed himself in the process.

Good thing for Shanahan is that this team has no shame left.

Yeah, it was Shanahan that made McNabb not want to learn the playbook and it was Shanahan that made him throw the ball at receivers feet. :doh:

[The Tris]

The fans should hold up the signs to themselves. As much as our fanbase preaches patience, we have none. None.

I have no patience what so ever for a win now philosophy. If we are trading picks for vets and signing big time FAs and there are not immediate results, I lose my patience quickly.

Now if we were to ever commit to a rebuild, then I would have all the patience in the world.

But patience for this hybrid, fence-strattling team building philosophy? Sorry, I ran out of that the last three times it was sold to me.

[Rodriggo]

Yeah, it was Shanahan that made McNabb not want to learn the playbook and it was Shanahan that made him throw the ball at receivers feet. :doh:

McNabb didn't play great but when he did he was without a doubt the best QB and first true leader at the position this team has had in more than a decade.

"Not want to learn the playbook" Really? Donovan McNabb? I highly doubt that was the case.

Kyle Shanahan couldn't coach him, couldn't figure out how b/c McNabb has forgotten more about football than little Kyle knows.

[JPCreativelab]

McNabb didn't play great but when he did he was without a doubt the best QB and first true leader at the position this team has had in more than a decade.

"Not want to learn the playbook" Really? Donovan McNabb? I highly doubt that was the case.

Kyle Shanahan couldn't coach him, couldn't figure out how b/c McNabb has forgotten more about football than little Kyle knows.

you mean like the overtime rules?? he definitely forgot that one, prolly too much knowledge on football in his brain to keep that nugget in the queue.

[Rodriggo]

you mean like the overtime rules?? he definitely forgot that one, prolly too much knowledge on football in his brain to keep that nugget in the queue.

Good one but Shanahan knew that when he got him so he was cool with it.

[SMU Redskin]

Kyle Shanahan couldn't coach him, couldn't figure out how b/c McNabb has forgotten more about football than little Kyle knows.

Like the NFL overtime rules?

---------- Post added May-17th-2011 at 12:20 PM ----------

McNabb is a moron and a diva. Can't wait to see him hit the road and be a cancer somewhere else.

12 year career, plenty of headlines and controversy, zero super bowls. Perhaps TO said it best when referring to their Super Bowl loss to NE: "I wasnt the one who got sick"

[Skins Talk]

Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!

Because the McNabb-Shanahan relationship was a bust from the start. No point in keeping your wagon hitched to a QB who you made a mistake in trading for. Also, McNabb's play was horrific, Shanahan's coaching wasn't great, but he didn't do too badly with a ragtag team. And with this past draft, he's given a reason to be patient with him.

[AirMayo21]

I think he's starting to realize that his past success in Denver don't really matter anymore, and the clock is ticking for him to win again.

Wow great grammar

[Mahons21]

But patience for this hybrid, fence-strattling team building philosophy? Sorry, I ran out of that the last three times it was sold to me.

I'd argue that you're looking at this tenure so far in it's totality, rather than looking at it in stages. If you look at it in stages you see a win now strategy clearly in the beginning of the tenure, but around week 9 or 10 last week you see that change into a much more of a team building philosophy. PS squads guys got signed to the 53, younger players/less heralded players got some PT. Then multiple vets are cut, prior to entering a draft with less than 7 picks, and leaving with what 13 or something?

So unless you want to overreact to the OJ signing (we've already done that song and dance), than you'd have to agree since the failure of plan "win-now" it appears the FO has changed to a rebuilding strategy.

---------- Post added May-17th-2011 at 12:35 PM ----------

The only thing going for Shanahan is that the majority of the fan base would rather have a senile washed up old coach "running" things than Snyder and his cronies. The ONLY thing.

and 2 superbowl rings, how many does McNabb have again?

Shanahan tried to break Haynesworth and now instead of a 2nd and 3rd round pick we'll have a beached whale blow up party in a couple of months. Free Blubber everybody!!!

and now instead of a bunch of whiney little ****es, Redskins players will know they have to act like real men and be held accountable for all their actions.

Shanahan brought McNabb here, no getting around it. I remember him on Redskins Cam on draft day in his gansta' lean and a **** eating grin saying "We just drafted Donovan McNabb with the 37th pick." Not seven months later he's pulling him in a close game and a still competitive season for Rex Grossman....Uh, OK Chief. He brought in a vet that little Kyle couldn't coach and instead of making the best of it he distanced, lied and unfairly undermined a borderline HOFer and embarrassed himself in the process.

....

Why does that NNT not surprise me?

[The Tris]

I'd argue that you're looking at this tenure so far in it's totality, rather than looking at it in stages. If you look at it in stages you see a win now strategy clearly in the beginning of the tenure, but around week 9 or 10 last week you see that change into a much more of a team building philosophy. PS squads guys got signed to the 53, younger players/less heralded players got some PT. Then multiple vets are cut, prior to entering a draft with less than 7 picks, and leaving with what 13 or something?

Shanahan only started inserting young players once we were mathmatically eliminated. Only when the prospect of the 2010 playoffs were gone did he scrap the win now philosophy, and not a moment before (despite our team being fundamentally flawed from the get go).

So unless you want to overreact to the OJ signing (we've already done that song and dance), than you'd have to agree since the failure of plan "win-now" it appears the FO has changed to a rebuilding strategy.

I was not a fan of the OJ signing, but I acknowledge the unique circumstances and accept that as a one off move, it does have value as part of a measured rebuild.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit, but all signs indicate that following the best Redskins draft in a decade, we are prepared to make quite the splash in free agency. This has been confirmed by the resident insiders, so I have no reason that this is the plan (unless we are physically prevented from signing players by the lockout). This strong desire to signing multiple veterans to high $ contracts underminds the forced rebuilding moves of late last season and the fantastic draft class we had last month.

If this were a scale, it would be pretty balanced with rebuilding moves (trading down in draft, 3-4) and win now moves (McNabb, Brown, not playing youth earlier in 2010, OJ). Should we sign a handful of high priced FAs, I think the scale clearly tilts in the direct of win now. I'd rather us chose one strategy or another, and stick to that plan. Right now, we are a middling team making middling moves that will continue to keep us hovering around .500 for as long as this team building philosophy continues.

[darrelgreenie]

McNabb is a moron and a diva. Can't wait to see him hit the road and be a cancer somewhere else.

Wow.

McNabb a multiple pro-bowler, borderline HOFer, repected leader coming off a pro-bowl season gets traded to the Burgundy and Gold and becomes a moron and a cancer.

[Hitman21ST]

Wow.

McNabb a multiple pro-bowler, borderline HOFer, repected leader coming off a pro-bowl season gets traded to the Burgundy and Gold and becomes a moron and a cancer.

Deion Sanders, Brandon Lloyd, Jason Taylor...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Shanahan only started inserting young players once we were mathmatically eliminated. Only when the prospect of the 2010 playoffs were gone did he scrap the win now philosophy, and not a moment before (despite our team being fundamentally flawed from the get go).

I think that Shanahan playing musical left guards between Dock and Lich, bringing up Banks, Cutting Galloway and bringing Austin off the PS when the team was 5-5, all qualify as signs the "Win Now" mentality was not the common denominator in Shanahan's decision making.

Perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit, but all signs indicate that following the best Redskins draft in a decade, we are prepared to make quite the splash in free agency. This has been confirmed by the resident insiders, so I have no reason that this is the plan (unless we are physically prevented from signing players by the lockout). This strong desire to signing multiple veterans to high $ contracts underminds the forced rebuilding moves of late last season and the fantastic draft class we had last month.

How do you define "making a splash in free agency"? Because I haven't seen anything that says we're gonna sign high-priced or big-name FAs, unless of course that FA is of the right age, fills a definite hole and can be signed to a contract that is manageable. In which case we'd be insane NOT to try signing them.

For the record, I define "win now" as having a mentality that "we are just one or two players from making a SB run"...and I haven't heard of any rumored FA signings from resident insiders that would make me think they're only being sought after because of that mentality.

---------- Post added May-17th-2011 at 11:25 AM ----------

Deion Sanders, Brandon Lloyd, Jason Taylor...

Deion was considered a moron and a cancer before joining the Skins lol...

Actually, Lloyd was, too, by quite a large number of ES members, but we were starving for some WR help outside of Moss that we hoped it was just rumors.

Jason Taylor?...cared more about "dancing with the stars" than football was the critique at the time, but most of us blew it off as reaching...

[The Tris]

Jsteelzout2dome Jenkins offered Packer a home town discount..they didnt do it, did it before lockout now he gonna get some offers..B&G horsehead n bed

Making "an offer he can't refuse" to a 30 year old DE coming off a super bowl victory is the epitome of a win now big splash in free agency.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Making "an offer he can't refuse" to a 30 year old DE coming off a super bowl victory is the epitome of a win now big splash in free agency.

So we've made an offer to him already? lol

And if you think the Packers winning the SB somehow pushed Shanahan and Allen to try and get the guy, you're crazy. If the Packers had ended up missing the playoffs altogether and he was still available as he is now, I damn well guarantee you they'd be targeting him to whatever degree they are targeting him now. So the whole "coming off a SB victory" twaddle is irrelevant, other than a way to stretch whatever is being rumored so that it fits into the definition of "win now".

Bottom line: we needed a ****load of DLine help...we were atrocious last season along the line, save for a few good game here and there by a few linemen here and there. We would be going after front 7 help in the draft AND free agency no matter what.

[Commander Adama]

This article is hilarious. I loved the draft and the direction Shanahan is taking. Are we contenders this year? No, but whoever thought we were has some serious issues.

[The Tris]

So we've made an offer to him already? lol

Isn't the majority of the discussion on this board based on hypotheticals. And as I have said, "Should we sign a handful of high $ FAs..."

And if you think the Packers winning the SB somehow pushed Shanahan and Allen to try and get the guy, you're crazy. If the Packers had ended up missing the playoffs altogether and he was still available as he is now, I damn well guarantee you they'd be targeting him to whatever degree they are targeting him now. So the whole "coming off a SB victory" twaddle is irrelevant, other than a way to stretch whatever is being rumored so that it fits into the definition of "win now".

The point is, a player coming off a Super Bowl is going to have a more inflated value than the already inflated value of top FAs to begin with. It's like paying double retail. So when an insider that I have no reason to doubt says we are going to make a serious run at such a player, it is logical to conclude that NOTHING about their contract will be managable. Not to mention the age of this particular player.

Bottom line: we needed a ****load of DLine help...we were atrocious last season along the line, save for a few good game here and there by a few linemen here and there. We would be going after front 7 help in the draft AND free agency no matter what.

I think signing reasonable veteran depth in free agency as well as using the UDFA market are wise ways to add to our DL.

Signing Cullen Jenkins is the antithesis of that. And the exact wrong type of FA that we should be pursuing as a team that needs to rebuild.

[ABSTRACT]

I'm mad ppl actually responded to this for it to go to so many pages. Ignore this BS. #Offseason boredom

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Isn't the majority of the discussion on this board based on hypotheticals. And as I have said, "Should we sign a handful of high $ FAs..."

Actually, you said this:

'Making "an offer he can't refuse" to a 30 year old DE coming off a super bowl victory"...

You seem to already "know" that the offer will be a huge one...which of course conveniently fits into the definition of "win now". If the offer is reasonable and structured in a way that does not even come close to crippling or even harming the Skins' ability to rebuild, it becomes harder to define the signing as a "win now", high price, splashy FA move.

The point is, a player coming off a Super Bowl is going to have a more inflated value than the already inflated value of top FAs to begin with. It's like playing double retail. So when an insider that I have no reason to doubt says we are going to make a serious run at such a player, it is logical to conclude that NOTHING about their contract will be managable. Not to mention the age of this particular player.

But when EVERY contract we've handed out under Allen HAS been manageable, why convince yourself already that this one will somehow be different? We might lose out on obtaining Jenkins because someone else decides to go the old Snyder route and let the fact that the player was on a SB-winning team dictate their actions. In my eyes that's more probable than Allen handing over a bloated contract to the guy.

I think signing reasonable veteran depth in free agency as well as using the UDFA market are wise ways to add to our DL.

We don't need depth along the DL...that's all we really had last year: depth players who we were forced to use as starters. What we need is starters.

Signing Cullen Jenkins is the antithesis of that. And the exact wrong type of FA that we should be pursuing as a team that needs to rebuild.

We need DL starters. Jenkins definitely could (and would) be starter material for at least 3 years, barring injury. Signing someone like him would be a absolute smart move on the Skins' part, as long as it's a manageable contract...which, again, all of Allen's contracts have been just that so far.