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NFA - Mike Shanahan's Ego Has the Washington Redskins Set Up to Fall Face First


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I see this as a good thing. Why would we need Kyle as an OC if he was an exact clone of Mike? Although they may not agree on every personnel decision, the "compromise" may yield a more versatile player being selected.

Or, the compromise becomes Donovan McNabb. An older vet who we trade picks for that doesn't fit Kyle's offense all that well.

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Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!

It isnt so much that most of us want to see him gone, it is just that we expect that he will be gone once all is said and done. He doesnt want to play here, and Kyle doesnt want to have him as the starting QB. If we were to keep him as a backup we would be paying a backup QB 8 million a year for the next 4 years. Everything points to him being traded on down the line, but if he is the starting QB next year I will be ok with it.

There still may be some animosity towards him on this board due to the Eagles years, but I dont think that the issue is that most people want him gone. They have just accepted it as inevitable.

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The cost Gibbs paid for a 1-2 record in the playoffs was paid (and is still being paid for) by the roster of the past 3 years.

Sometimes pushing a team in the right direction has costs that are far greater and last far longer than the immediate return to an above .500 record.

There is a right and wrong way to push a team back into relevance. Thus far in his short tenure, MS has exhibited both. Time will tell if he is repeating the mistakes of Joe Gibbs, or if he is building "the right way."

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 10:47 AM ----------

After we were mathmatically eliminated, and only then, did Kyle get his wish. And if the rumors that Rex will not be retained come true, there will be no "Kyle's" QBs on the roster.

Does Vince Young seem more like a MS or a KS QB to you?

Like I said earlier, they have to maintain a certain level of hope for the fans. By benching McFail before they were mathmatically eliminated, it would have made the crap storm created by his benching far far worse. It doesn't change the fact that this supposed egomanic admitted his mistake in trading for Mcnabb by both allowing his benching and admitting to it publicly.

In then end it doesn't matter to me who they get this year, if anything has been proven by this FO it is that no knows what they hell they are actually going to do. So following any rumors and getting all bent out of shape over them is a massive exercise in futility.

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In then end it doesn't matter to me who they get this year, if anything has been proven by this FO it is that no knows what they hell they are actually going to do. So following any rumors and getting all bent out of shape over them is a massive exercise in futility.

When have they demonstrated that they know what they're doing?

This year's draft is the first time I said, "yes, personnel wise, we're starting to get on the right track"

But prior to that, the McNabb/Brown trades were some of the worst trades we could have made. Furthermore, although Atogwe is a good player, he fits a win now model at 30 years old. Which, for the record, wouldn't be that big of a deal if we were rebuilding the right way, but after having blown picks on McNabb/Brown, the Atogwe signings reeks of more of the same.

The true test will be when we actually have free agency. If we splurge, we're doing the same 'ol, same 'ol. If we're more conservative, stick to young guys, and sign a bunch of scheme fit guys I think we're headed in the right direction. Thus far, that hasn't been the Shanahan MO.

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The true test will be when we actually have free agency. If we splurge, we're doing the same 'ol, same 'ol. If we're more conservative, stick to young guys, and sign a bunch of scheme fit guys I think we're headed in the right direction. Thus far, that hasn't been the Shanahan MO.

Last offseason we signed a bunch of stopgaps in free agency because the entire free agency class got scuttled by the labor dispute. There were no young scheme fit guys out there to be had, and the ones who were available are on the roster, like Ryan Torain and Kory Lichtensteiger. Shanny tried to turn it around quickly by getting a probowl QB and plugging some holes with stopgaps. The offense showed tremendous improvement last season compared to under Zorn as well. The problem was that the defensive personnel were all wrong for a 3-4. That has now, to a great extent, been remedied. Even without FA this roster is a better roster than the one which we had going into last season. Hopefully this year the team can hit 8-8...

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When have they demonstrated that they know what they're doing?

This year's draft is the first time I said, "yes, personnel wise, we're starting to get on the right track"

But prior to that, the McNabb/Brown trades were some of the worst trades we could have made. Furthermore, although Atogwe is a good player, he fits a win now model at 30 years old. Which, for the record, wouldn't be that big of a deal if we were rebuilding the right way, but after having blown picks on McNabb/Brown, the Atogwe signings reeks of more of the same.

The true test will be when we actually have free agency. If we splurge, we're doing the same 'ol, same 'ol. If we're more conservative, stick to young guys, and sign a bunch of scheme fit guys I think we're headed in the right direction. Thus far, that hasn't been the Shanahan MO.

Well, I have already addressed that I think a lot of people will be very dissapointed in FA this year. The brown trade was not a waste, he played well and who else was available? Atogwe is a good fit for the defense and actually smells like a smart signing as Haslett knows him pretty well. It checked off a major need for this team in the short term.

If you look at the contract structure it is far from a cap killer and he can be released at any time with minor reprocussions. These are exactly the types of moves I am referring too. Yeah the picks for Mcnabb sucked, but they admitted that mistake, but I know the posters at any site will bring it up over and over again. Mcnabb was questionable and the mistake has been admitted too by Mike. I don't really know what more people can ask for at this point.

Nothing that has been done under MIke is a long term albatross around his sons neck.

As I have said a couple of times, while they transform the franchise they have to keep the fans engaged and excited. It is a business after all and generating cash is its primary function.

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Wow. Some people seriously need to look in the mirror and question their own football knowledge.

We reached for a QB in the First already with JC, how did that work for us? If Shany felt like the QB for us was either A. Not in ths draft or B. Gone by the time we selected... then what can we do about it? We could have always pulled a Vikings and had the reach of Dhalsim from Streetfighter when selecting a QB..but I'm glad we didn't.

We are turning around a franchise that is in turmoil. Did it take 1, 2 or even 3 years to get us this far is the hole? No. So why do people think it will take 1-2 years to get us back out? It's like an overweight person who spent 20 years eating and gaining 400 lbs. then getting mad because after 4 months he wasn't a 205 lb athlete.

I LOVE our draft.. we will figure out the QB situation.. it will just obviously take more than a year.

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Last offseason we signed a bunch of stopgaps in free agency because the entire free agency class got scuttled by the labor dispute. There were no young scheme fit guys out there to be had, and the ones who were available are on the roster, like Ryan Torain and Kory Lichtensteiger. Shanny tried to turn it around quickly by getting a probowl QB and plugging some holes with stopgaps. The offense showed tremendous improvement last season compared to under Zorn as well. The problem was that the defensive personnel were all wrong for a 3-4. That has now, to a great extent, been remedied. Even without FA this roster is a better roster than the one which we had going into last season. Hopefully this year the team can hit 8-8...

The 3-4 move was a bad decision. That's on Shanahan.

He's a great coach for this job. Bad talent evaluator/staff guy.

Well, I have already addressed that I think a lot of people will be very dissapointed in FA this year. The brown trade was not a waste, he played well and who else was available? Atogwe is a good fit for the defense and actually smells like a smart signing as Haslett knows him pretty well. It checked off a major need for this team in the short term.

I addressed my feelings on Atogwe.

Brown is unsigned and a FA when FA begins. It's a waste if we don't sign him back. 100%. Playing well for a 6-10 team means nothing.

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.

In then end it doesn't matter to me who they get this year, if anything has been proven by this FO it is that no knows what they hell they are actually going to do. So following any rumors and getting all bent out of shape over them is a massive exercise in futility.

Are you kidding? Half of ES should have six-pack abs from all the futility exercising they do over rumors and speculations lol...

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The 3-4 move was a bad decision. That's on Shanahan..

It was only a bad decision short term. If he thinks the 3-4 gives us the best shot long-term to win then you have to do it right away. It makes for a bad defensive year but it also let him know who would and wouldn't fit and what needed to be replaced.

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Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!

Because McNabb has clashed with Shanahan (both of them) on a lot of levels. Shanahan thought, that when he brought McNabb in, that he could change McNabb into a quarterback who excelled in Shanahan's system. McNabb, being a verteran of 10 years, did not want to change a thing. To think that McNabb would suddenly change after a year in a system he really didn't care for in the first place is, well, incorrect. That's why McNabb has to go.

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The 3-4 move was a bad decision. That's on Shanahan.

He's a great coach for this job. Bad talent evaluator/staff guy.

I addressed my feelings on Atogwe.

Brown is unsigned and a FA when FA begins. It's a waste if we don't sign him back. 100%. Playing well for a 6-10 team means nothing.

Agreed on Brown 100%, I was going to add that but my laptop locked up and I had to reboot it. I did not see your posts on Atogwe but either way after this year it is at worst a wash to cut him next year if the cap is brought back.

As another poster put it, the 3-4 switch was a bad move at first if you believe the defense was actually good to begin with. That is another thread through. It will work out in the end and actually supports my theory that Mike is taking the bumps to allow his son to take over a strong organization later.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 11:42 AM ----------

Are you kidding? Half of ES should have six-pack abs from all the futility exercising they do over rumors and speculations lol...

Perhaps that is why I have a pony keg. :-P

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REALLY? Because Free Agency has come and gone?? Not saying he will or won't, but just the fact that the author states he never did further proves this article is garbage.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Yup, the article is fatally flawed and all over the place. One minute he says they haven't targetted a QB in FA (FA hasn't happened yet) then he says we're going with Beck, then he says we'd like to re-sign Grossman.

Poor effort from the author.

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Wait, what?

There might be a plan now, but it is certainly not the same plan that he had at this time in 2010.

The idea that John Beck was ever part of this plan prior to (at the earliest) the end of the 2010 season is comical.

There is some reason they signed Beck so don't laugh too hard. Not saying it is going to solve the problem but obviously they again were hedging their bets along with signing McNabb and Brown.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 12:13 PM ----------

KDawg as usual makes some great points. Much will be uncovered by what they do in FA this year when it happens. Where I don't condem them as much is the McNabb / Brown signing, I think they were gambling and trying to use what was in place to have a good year, fail. So what though. They wasted some picks and then moved on from there. I liked the draft, I think if we see them add some young FA's with some vet OL help, and yes maybe a vet QB, the team could be mildly competitive.

But hey what do I know, in 2009 I voted for Skins Hokie Fan for GM and KDawg as HC.

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It was only a bad decision short term. If he thinks the 3-4 gives us the best shot long-term to win then you have to do it right away. It makes for a bad defensive year but it also let him know who would and wouldn't fit and what needed to be replaced.

I'm still not sure it was the best option for us... And I think we're hinging our hopes for this D to work on a carbon copy of Rak... That said, I see your point and concede that it may be correct. I just don't see it happening with Haslett. The 3-4 itself wasn't necessarily a problem, but I disagree 100% with the guy who's running it.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 12:31 PM ----------

But hey what do I know, in 2009 I voted for Skins Hokie Fan for GM and KDawg as HC.

Show me the money! :ols:

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There is some reason they signed Beck so don't laugh too hard.

I will laugh at the suggestion that on September 1st, 2010 (when they signed Beck's extension), Mike Shanahan's "plan" for this team/roster/the QB position included Beck being in the mix to be the 2011 opening day starter of the Redskins.

There is a reason they signed Beck - they needed a 3rd QB with upside.

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The reports are (from multiple sources) suggest that McNabb was not willing to make concessions to fit into the Shanahans' scheme [from his footwork to the infamous wristband]. If this is the case, which i'm inclined to believe , as to why many ppl aren't willing to give McNabb the benefit of the doubt. I think had he shown a stronger work ethic and willing to do everything necessary to fit into what they wanted, then he would probably be back.

Our FO made a big mistake trading for Donny. You don't ask a 34 year old QB to change his footwork/mechanics after 12 years of doing something he is used too. You don't trade for a 12 year veteran and become so hard headed you won't fit the scheme around him even a tiny bit. This has ego problems written all over it whether it's Mike or Kyle. You do this to a 22-25 year old quarterback which is why I blame whoever traded for Donny in the first place.

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The problem with this premise is that it assumes that the Redskins were standing on their feet prior to Shanny's arrival.

honeslty ... should we even bother discuss this thread after this? I mean ... shannahan took over the titanic.

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Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!

Career longevity/career history. Not a lot of time left on McNabb's career, he's clearly already on the decline, and his past accomplishments aren't of the same caliber as MS. There's clearly a problem between the two sides, one had to go, I think the Redskins made the right choice for now.

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Career longevity/career history. Not a lot of time left on McNabb's career, he's clearly already on the decline, and his past accomplishments aren't of the same caliber as MS. There's clearly a problem between the two sides, one had to go, I think the Redskins made the right choice for now.

+10000. This is really a no brainer.

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Found this in the BN section and thought it was worthy to discuss. Followed up by looking at the writer and found some stuff on him. Obviously he is just a blogger with an opinion. Some of this has been discussed in other threads, but does anyone feel that Shannahan has really set up the Skins to fall flat on thier faces this year? I know there is the Luck theorist out there, but I like what I have seen draft wise and long term wise thus far. I think Shannahan will find a QB, he has a knack for it. This guy discredits that ability.

http://www.nationalfootballauthority.com/2011/05/mike-shanahans-ego-has-washington.html

By(former BR writer) Bear HeiserSenior Writer

Washington Redskins head coach Mike Shanahan's tenure with the organization has largely been forgettable to say the least. Most of the trouble in Washington has stemmed from the lack of a reliable quarterback, and the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of Shanahan.

The Redskins only won six games in Shanahan's first season in Washington. A horrible year all around for a team that has seemingly been searching for its identity since legendary head coach Joe Gibbs left after the 2007 season.

Failure with quarterbacks is not something Shanahan knows a lot about, and I'd have to imagine the pressure he feels because of the failed McNabb experiment has his ego making most of the decisions at this point. I think he's starting to realize that his past success in Denver don't really matter anymore, and the clock is ticking for him to win again.

Every decision Shanahan has made since arriving in D.C. has been questioned, and rightly so. It's clear he has a plan, and the only way he comes out of this mess ahead of where he started—is to take a flyer with Beck and hope for the best.

This writer also has a history, http://bleacherreport.com/users/354093-bear-heiser

http://bearconsults.wordpress.com/want-to-know-more-about-bear/

Obvious to me, Mr. Bear Heiser is looking for employment with the main stream sport's media. Prerequisite to becoming employed by the main stream sport's media is to come down hard, negatively speaking, on the Washington Redskins.

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Its so hypocritical on this board of you guys giving Shanahan and Co. a pass because "its only been one year" but on the other hand that doesnt matter when you are talking about McNabb! He too has only been in this system for ONE year but most of you want to see him gone after last year. So my question is why does Shanny get time to adjust but McNabb has to go?!
If McNabb was a a young prospect I'm sure people wouldn't be wanting him gone. Personally, I dont want him gone, but with the events that went down this past season, it seems inevitable.

If I was the coaching staff, I would have kept in good graces with McNabb and tried to build a pieces around him with WRs, RBs, and OL via the draft and free agency. I also would have gotten a young QB prospect to develop behind McNabb for a few years. People have to remember that the offense talent for the the redskins has been atrocious in recent years. I dont know any QB that could put up good numbers behind an unstable OL, RB core, and terrible WRs. Just think-Jason Campbell had a better year than any in his first season in Oakland because they have a much better core of offensive talent. I believe McNabb would play better if he was around better pieces.

Now if the coach benches you for Grossman, a QB who makes you go "OH NO" even when his name is mentioned, that should piss anyone off. If Shanahan is going to trade a second round pick for a QB who has played double digit seasons a certain way, why in the world do you not adjust your system to him or have a well thought out plan for him. This whole McNabb situation is a sham because of shanahan...I'm going to call him SHAMAHAN until he proves otherwise. A coach that has been in this league as long as he has should know better.

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If McNabb was a a young prospect I'm sure people wouldn't be wanting him gone. Personally, I dont want him gone, but with the events that went down this past season, it seems inevitable.

If I was the coaching staff, I would have kept in good graces with McNabb and tried to build a pieces around him with WRs, RBs, and OL via the draft and free agency. I also would have gotten a young QB prospect to develop behind McNabb for a few years. People have to remember that the offense talent for the the redskins has been atrocious in recent years. I dont know any QB that could put up good numbers behind an unstable OL, RB core, and terrible WRs. Just think-Jason Campbell had a better year than any in his first season in Oakland because they have a much better core of offensive talent. I believe McNabb would play better if he was around better pieces.

Now if the coach benches you for Grossman, a QB who makes you go "OH NO" even when his name is mentioned, that should piss anyone off. If Shanahan is going to trade a second round pick for a QB who has played double digit seasons a certain way, why in the world do you not adjust your system to him or have a well thought out plan for him. This whole McNabb situation is a sham because of shanahan...I'm going to call him SHAMAHAN until he proves otherwise. A coach that has been in this league as long as he has should know better.

A couple of things stick out here. Jason Campbell did not have a better year last year than he did here. He had the exact same season he did the last three seasons. The games they won with him as a starter was because they didn't let him throw the ball. He still was maddeningly slow going through his progressions. He still refuses to throw a ball to a receiver before he comes out of his break. And for a guy with a strong arm he throws a terrible deep ball.

Secondly, you can whine and moan all you want about Shanahan benching McNabb for a QB as bad as Grossman but it worked. The offense was ten times better after McNabb was benched. The team came out of the huddle quicker and they brought the short and intermediate passing game back into play. Grossman stinks. At this point in his career McNabb is worse.

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