Fred Davis Possible trade?

[gkekoa]

Fred Davis is better than Chris Cooley. Cooley is extremely overrated.

[Conn]

Fred Davis is better than Chris Cooley. Cooley is extremely overrated.

I'm gonna be honest, I think this is too cut-and-dry. I DO, however, think that you could be right. I just don't think its that obvious. Once we no longer "need" Cooley's superior (barely?) blocking, I think you might see a move from Cooley to Davis as the premier pass-catching TE here. Its possible. Davis is much closer to the athletic TE fad that is now sweeping through the league.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

5 months or so back at the end of last season, and the 'Skins sitting with 7 picks and more holes than the holiest holey thing; I argued that Cooley should at the very least be floated out there to see what his value was given he was one of the VERY few tradable players we actually had.

Fast forward 5 months, with the CBA B/S costing us getting a head start in FA; and the draft been and gone; my opinion, at least for another season, has completely changed. It would be be too our detriment to shop EITHER TE. In Cooley and Freddy Delight, we hold two of the premier receiving TE's in the entire league. One of the very few positions on the team we actually have top bracket talent in. (Safety with Landry and Atogwe is the other IMHO.). If the dumbass OC would get his stubborn head out of his ass and actually start utilizing the talent at his disposal, in this case FreddyD, we have a pair of TE's that can give opposing D's nightmares trying to cover. Throw in Logan Paulsen, who's a very promising, young, big, pass blocking TE with the added bonus of great hands, with Davis and Paulsen 25 and 24 respectively going into next year, and Cooley hardly washed up at 29; and we'd be crazy to sacrifice one of the top two when we have such a good thing going IMHO. Throw in we could well have another new starting QB next year, and to deprive him of two great go-to-guys as he assimilates to this system would be even more to our folly.

As we currently stand, I honestly see no value in trading either at this current time. Aside from the fact all your doing is stockpiling a pick or two for a year, your not only weakening a serious offensive weapon in the TE group, but your risking taking that threat away totally if the guy left here goes down injured.

Relish that we actually dominate the league at a position, with 2 of 3 players we drafted and the other being an undrafted rookie; pray that the OC remembers Davis is actually on the roster this year; and put all talk of trading our weapons to bed.

Hail.

[gkekoa]

I think trading Cooley now is better than before the draft...now we get picks for next season in a trade. I absolutely want Andrew Luck leading this team for the next decade and getting picks in next years draft gives us more ammunition just in case we don't have the natural number one pick and have to trade up to get it. If also gives us more picks to properly block for Luck.

Shanahan said it a couple of weeks back...the plan is to get Luck.

[Leonard Washington]

We better figure out a way how to use him or he's gonna walk.

[Drexen Del'Sangre]

Shanahan said it a couple of weeks back...the plan is to get Luck.

Wait, when did he say this?

[Yeen80]

I think trading Cooley now is better than before the draft...now we get picks for next season in a trade. I absolutely want Andrew Luck leading this team for the next decade and getting picks in next years draft gives us more ammunition just in case we don't have the natural number one pick and have to trade up to get it. If also gives us more picks to properly block for Luck.

Shanahan said it a couple of weeks back...the plan is to get Luck.

Huh? When did Shanny say this?

[gkekoa]

Before the draft.

[tex]

trade him if the price is right.

[Mania]

5 months or so back at the end of last season, and the 'Skins sitting with 7 picks and more holes than the holiest holey thing; I argued that Cooley should at the very least be floated out there to see what his value was given he was one of the VERY few tradable players we actually had.

Fast forward 5 months, with the CBA B/S costing us getting a head start in FA; and the draft been and gone; my opinion, at least for another season, has completely changed. It would be be too our detriment to shop EITHER TE. In Cooley and Freddy Delight, we hold two of the premier receiving TE's in the entire league. One of the very few positions on the team we actually have top bracket talent in. (Safety with Landry and Atogwe is the other IMHO.). If the dumbass OC would get his stubborn head out of his ass and actually start utilizing the talent at his disposal, in this case FreddyD, we have a pair of TE's that can give opposing D's nightmares trying to cover. Throw in Logan Paulsen, who's a very promising, young, big, pass blocking TE with the added bonus of great hands, with Davis and Paulsen 25 and 24 respectively going into next year, and Cooley hardly washed up at 29; and we'd be crazy to sacrifice one of the top two when we have such a good thing going IMHO. Throw in we could well have another new starting QB next year, and to deprive him of two great go-to-guys as he assimilates to this system would be even more to our folly.

As we currently stand, I honestly see no value in trading either at this current time. Aside from the fact all your doing is stockpiling a pick or two for a year, your not only weakening a serious offensive weapon in the TE group, but your risking taking that threat away totally if the guy left here goes down injured.

Relish that we actually dominate the league at a position, with 2 of 3 players we drafted and the other being an undrafted rookie; pray that the OC remembers Davis is actually on the roster this year; and put all talk of trading our weapons to bed.

Hail.

Sorry for quoting this entire post, but I want to thank you for a very well thought out post.

[GotNothing]

So the idea is to trade one of the best players on the team, and a top TE in the NFL for a 2nd/3rd round draft pick that may never pan out?

[CRobi21]

Before the draft.

You gotta link?

If he did say this I'm sure this would be pretty big news. And this is the first I'm hearing about it.

Soooo...

[Mania]

I think trading Cooley now is better than before the draft...now we get picks for next season in a trade. I absolutely want Andrew Luck leading this team for the next decade and getting picks in next years draft gives us more ammunition just in case we don't have the natural number one pick and have to trade up to get it. If also gives us more picks to properly block for Luck.

Shanahan said it a couple of weeks back...the plan is to get Luck.

With a Little Luck we can help it out. We can make this whole damn thing work out. Next years draft class is supposed to be full of elite qbs. Besides Luck, there is Landry Jones and Matt Barkley. We may be bad enough to get Luck, but we should be within striking distance of one of the 3 prize winners for picking high in the draft.

[gkekoa]

I read it on an article on here.

When I read it, it sounded like he was joking...after this draft, I'm not so sure.

As for trading one of the top TEs in the league, we have one that replaced him equally when he was injured. TE is not a position that requires two very good players but 2nd or 3rd round picks are key in rebuilding.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

trade him if the price is right.

I'd prefer to trade Cooley.

[MurrayH81]

Okay, using the logic espoused, any time we have a succesful well stocked set of players at a position, we should trade one of them. Stated that way, does that make any sense?

Does it make sense to weaken any further area of this team? For what purpose (draft picks)? Why do we need more draft picks next year? To get more players and depth at positions, so we can trade them for more draft picks?

If you want to raise the character of the football team, you cannot treat the players like commodities with only trade value. Why would they play hard for you?

You need to treat employees as if what they do for you right now IS THEIR VALUE, not their future trade value.

Cooley is productive and has never done anything detrimental to the team or fans. Davis has shown flashes, and by all accounts he is a good team mate. Most players at skill positions believe they are starters, but that doesn't make him one, or one right now.

As for the thought that Player X is probably going to leave as a FA, so we should try to get some value out of him in the form of draft picks. Well, I'd say the team recieved the compensation for the player already via their play (and whose fault is it in this situation if that is not true?).

[Conn]

5 months or so back at the end of last season, and the 'Skins sitting with 7 picks and more holes than the holiest holey thing; I argued that Cooley should at the very least be floated out there to see what his value was given he was one of the VERY few tradable players we actually had.

Fast forward 5 months, with the CBA B/S costing us getting a head start in FA; and the draft been and gone; my opinion, at least for another season, has completely changed. It would be be too our detriment to shop EITHER TE. In Cooley and Freddy Delight, we hold two of the premier receiving TE's in the entire league. One of the very few positions on the team we actually have top bracket talent in. (Safety with Landry and Atogwe is the other IMHO.). If the dumbass OC would get his stubborn head out of his ass and actually start utilizing the talent at his disposal, in this case FreddyD, we have a pair of TE's that can give opposing D's nightmares trying to cover. Throw in Logan Paulsen, who's a very promising, young, big, pass blocking TE with the added bonus of great hands, with Davis and Paulsen 25 and 24 respectively going into next year, and Cooley hardly washed up at 29; and we'd be crazy to sacrifice one of the top two when we have such a good thing going IMHO. Throw in we could well have another new starting QB next year, and to deprive him of two great go-to-guys as he assimilates to this system would be even more to our folly.

As we currently stand, I honestly see no value in trading either at this current time. Aside from the fact all your doing is stockpiling a pick or two for a year, your not only weakening a serious offensive weapon in the TE group, but your risking taking that threat away totally if the guy left here goes down injured.

Relish that we actually dominate the league at a position, with 2 of 3 players we drafted and the other being an undrafted rookie; pray that the OC remembers Davis is actually on the roster this year; and put all talk of trading our weapons to bed.

Hail.

Unfortunately, GHH, I think we've put ourselves into a position where we HAVE to choose between them, after this upcoming season. If we don't, Davis will walk. He knows he's starting caliber, and isn't going to spend his career in the shadow of Cooley's star. Even if we utilize 2-TE sets as much as we can, he still won't be the star he knows he can be...so, he will leave. And then Cooley will be 30, and we won't be looking so good at that position. What had been a strength would become a position that, in the back of our minds, we'd know we have to find a replacement for in the next couple of years.

Now, it IS certainly debatable how we should go about "fixing" this problem. To me, the answer seems to be to shop Cooley, and re-sign the younger, more explosive Davis. I'd hate to see him go, but it seems to be the fiscally responsible thing to do, for two reasons:

1) We'd get younger at TE.

2) We'd save money at TE.

3) We'd arguably get more explosive at TE, which, looking around the league, is in vogue. Look at the Finley's, the Graham's, etc. blowing up around the league. Hell, Gates, arguably one of the best TE's of all time, created this new proto-type. And Davis fits it better.

Its a tough decision to make, I'll admit. But I think that the 2011-2012 season will be our last with the luxury of TWO starting-caliber TE's.

And maybe it should be, for all the reasons posted above.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2011 at 10:47 PM ----------

So the idea is to trade one of the best players on the team, and a top TE in the NFL for a 2nd/3rd round draft pick that may never pan out?

Yes, or almost certainly lose another 2nd round pick in Davis, who is younger, more dynamic, and arguably just as good. At least as good.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2011 at 10:53 PM ----------

Okay, using the logic espoused, any time we have a succesful well stocked set of players at a position, we should trade one of them. Stated that way, does that make any sense?

Many of the top teams in the league, personnel-wise, do just this. As a player gets towards their peak age/performance, they are traded by quality organizations like the Eagles and Patriots.

Not EVERY position of depth, mind you. But TE is probably one of the least important positions to have such quality depth, to the tune of two start-able guys.

[gkekoa]

Okay, using the logic espoused, any time we have a succesful well stocked set of players at a position, we should trade one of them. Stated that way, does that make any sense?

Does it make sense to weaken any further area of this team? For what purpose (draft picks)? Why do we need more draft picks next year? To get more players and depth at positions, so we can trade them for more draft picks?

If you want to raise the character of the football team, you cannot treat the players like commodities with only trade value. Why would they play hard for you?

You need to treat employees as if what they do for you right now IS THEIR VALUE, not their future trade value.

Cooley is productive and has never done anything detrimental to the team or fans. Davis has shown flashes, and by all accounts he is a good team mate. Most players at skill positions believe they are starters, but that doesn't make him one, or one right now.

As for the thought that Player X is probably going to leave as a FA, so we should try to get some value out of him in the form of draft picks. Well, I'd say the team recieved the compensation for the player already via their play (and whose fault is it in this situation if that is not true?).

I'd rather pattern my philosophies after winners. Look at the PATS...they are the epitomy of a winning franchise. Richard Seymour reaches his pinnacle and probably decline and they get a first for him. They get what they could from Moss and trade him. Follow what winners do...you don't hold onto guys when they are about to decline. Players play hard for money...end of story.

[Reaper 21]

^^^ guy I don't want to be the iggles or pats regardless of regular season

Wins, I rather be the steelers they keep their vets and it shows In there blue collar attitude teams that win in the playoffs. I'm all for youth but your team has to be loyal to it's players

[MurrayH81]

Players play hard for money...end of story.

I have a response for that - Albert Haynesworth. There are some more examples if you like. Players do not simply or only play hard for money.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2011 at 08:15 PM ----------

^^^ guy I don't want to be the iggles or pats regardless of regular season

Wins, I rather be the steelers they keep their vets and it shows In there blue collar attitude teams that win in the playoffs. I'm all for youth but your team has to be loyal to it's players

Thank you. I happen to agree, and I never, ever want to do things the Eagles way. I understand you cannot keep every player, and some want to leave. But if you treat every player as a future trade commodity, instead of valuing what they do on the field for you, then the problem is with you (the organization).

[gkekoa]

^^^ guy I don't want to be the iggles or pats regardless of regular season

Wins, I rather be the steelers they keep their vets and it shows In there blue collar attitude teams that win in the playoffs. I'm all for youth but your team has to be loyal to it's players

Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress, Willie Parker, Nate Washington, and Larry Foote were not kept. They were only kept until a replacement was found. As players age, you replace them...No poor team carries two very good TEs. It's a luxury we can't afford.

---------- Post added May-3rd-2011 at 10:18 PM ----------

I have a response for that - Albert Haynesworth. There are some more examples if you like. Players do not simply or only play hard for money.

Players do play hard for money...why do you think contract years are usually their best years? AL was paid, he had no reason to play hard...money motivated him in Tennessee and we quenched his hunger.

[jflow78]

I don't know if he'll be back next season, but I seriously doubt Shanahan is even considering this (Allen either). Just because we have depth doesn't mean we should trade it away.

[gkekoa]

Depth at a less valuable position is just depth for the sake of depth. What good is two starting TEs when we need a starting QB, CB, C, G, OT, NT, and ILB?

[Bibby]

Ah the annual trade Cooley/Davis offseason threads I see are back in action...

[ZRagone]

Unless we got a 1st I just don't think we get value by trading away Cooley. I view him in the same way I view this draft....its as much a message as it is production.

Cooley is a home grown guy. He was drafted by us. He performed for us. He is an amazingly gracious and good ambassador for the Redskins in the community. This is the type of guy you want your team to make good on, to give reasonable money to, to keep, to show respect to, and say "hey, we're not a place always looking for the next hot thing and ignoring our own talent". This is the one guy from this generation of Skins, along with Chris Samuels, that I can see coming back 20 or 30 years down the line and still being involved in some form with this team and the community.

It'd be one thing if his production was truly declining, but its not. His TD's have been down from his best seasons, but everyone on the teams TD's have been down during that same time so suggesting its Cooley is ridiculous. He's still a top caliber TE in this league that is a great teammate, not a diva, and everything you could want in a player. I don't think you trade Davis, because you want a good quality 2nd TE in the league now, but I absolutely don't think you trade Cooley because whatever roll of the dice of a 2nd or 3rd rounder you get is not worth the gamble of what you lose by shipping him away.