Praying for Japan

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Who says we are his ultimate creation?

How could the world be perfect if we are not?

I mean we're created in his likeness no? And I don't recall an 8th day where he created something else?

[Tweedr01]

Who says we are his ultimate creation?

How could the world be perfect if we are not?

I always wonder about this too, we are made in His image, but we are far from ultimate, lol. We fail on a daily basis. If we as humans fail so often, how can we expect the world to be perfect? To add to what was said earlier, I do not believe that God creates or prevents disasters like this. I do believe that He uses these times to bring us, whether us is our nation, our community, our schools, or the world, closer together. It shows that we need each other too, but again as Footprints says, when we hit those rough patches and it feels like we are walking by ourselves, it's actually God carrying us through those times. Hence the one set of footprints.

Yes as part of the deal the Earth was cursed

yup

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 08:35 AM ----------

I mean we're created in his likeness no? And I don't recall an 8th day where he created something else?

Have you ever thought we could be the first creation, once the rapture occurs, He may do this again? I don't want to say trial and error, but I mean if you do something over and over and over, doesn't it get better every time you do it?

EDIT: I mean, don't you get better at what you are doing? Say you just started playing basketball, if you do it for years and years and years, wouldn't you think you do a better job of it now? These are just thoughts of a very young Christian, lol, so take it for what it's worth.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I'm not a Christian, so no, I haven't given much thought to the Rapture and all of that. I'm just trying to understand how things like earthquakes and tsunami's fit into an earth created by God.

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 08:38 AM ----------

Also, ultimate doesn't mean perfect. To me anyway. It means--as of now anyway, I guess--we were His final creation. The one that all the other creations were leading up to.

[twa]

KD doesn't rate any ire for asking, that's what you're supposed to do.

Yes,but w/o faith ,belief and prayer is of no use and simply ceremony.

Those of faith pray because they believe it has effect

[Tweedr01]

I'm not a Christian, so no, I haven't given much thought to the Rapture and all of that. I'm just trying to understand how things like earthquakes and tsunami's fit into an earth created by God.

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 08:38 AM ----------

Also, ultimate doesn't mean perfect. To me anyway. It means--as of now anyway, I guess--we were His final creation. The one that all the other creations were leading up to.

I dunno, Revelations 21:1 talks about seeing a new heaven and earth as the old earth passes away. It makes me think that when we are all taken away to Heaven, that God will begin again, which is why I don't think we are even a final creation. I mean, He created the earth, and animals, and obviously we were last...this time. Again, Revelations makes it sound as if He is going to begin anew. Who knows, we may not be the first Earth either, God knows no time boundary.

To me the more I read about this and hear from others, the more I am amazed...in a good way.

[KDawg]

Yes,but w/o faith ,belief and prayer is of no use and simply ceremony.

Those of faith pray because they believe it has effect

So wait, I deserve ire because I asked a question?

Or I don't necessarily see the world the way you do?

Isn't that doing exactly as you attempted to condemn me for above?

You're entitled to believe whatever it is you choose. As am I. I will never judge you for what you believe.

Admittedly, I may have taken this wrong, and I hope I did.

[Conn]

A question that I have: How do people feel about the fact that they are praying for people who don't share the same religious beliefs (mostly)? This is a question, not a statement. To clarify: I am NOT saying that your prayers are not appreciated, or that they don't help, if you believe.

What I AM asking is: how do you, as a Christian (for example) feel about praying for those who don't share your beliefs? Who don't believe in a Christian God or Jesus? Basically, if they knew you were praying, they might say "thanks, I appreciate it, but you're basically just talking to yourself there". That's a harsh example, but you get what I mean.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I dunno, Revelations 21:1 talks about seeing a new heaven and earth as the old earth passes away. It makes me think that when we are all taken away to Heaven, that God will begin again, which is why I don't think we are even a final creation. I mean, He created the earth, and animals, and obviously we were last...this time. Again, Revelations makes it sound as if He is going to begin anew. Who knows, we may not be the first Earth either, God knows no time boundary.

To me the more I read about this and hear from others, the more I am amazed...in a good way.

Yeah I dunno. I'm still not understanding why He would create a world where things like earthquakes and tsunami's happen. I'm talking on a physical level, not a spiritual one. Why would He physically create a world that has so much natural physical devastation?

I'm an agnostic who leans toward the existence of a higher power, but then I see disasters like what has happened in Japan or in Haiti and it really pushes me to the side of there being nothing.

[DRSmith]

So wait, I thought eating the forbidden fruit resulted in mortality and sin. It also resulted in God creating a world with earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc?

The eating of the fruit was a sin, which resulted in death coming into the world but there was other things

Genesis 3:

17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

One of things we also have to aknowledge is our own nature is making things worse also, how much damage do we cause out of greed

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 08:50 AM ----------

A question that I have: How do people feel about the fact that they are praying for people who don't share the same religious beliefs (mostly)? This is a question, not a statement. To clarify: I am NOT saying that your prayers are not appreciated, or that they don't help, if you believe.

What I AM asking is: how do you, as a Christian (for example) feel about praying for those who don't share your beliefs? Who don't believe in a Christian God or Jesus? Basically, if they knew you were praying, they might say "thanks, I appreciate it, but you're basically just talking to yourself there". That's a harsh example, but you get what I mean.

Do unto others as you would have them do to you, seems to cover this well

[Tweedr01]

A question that I have: How do people feel about the fact that they are praying for people who don't share the same religious beliefs (mostly)? This is a question, not a statement. To clarify: I am NOT saying that your prayers are not appreciated, or that they don't help, if you believe.

What I AM asking is: how do you, as a Christian (for example) feel about praying for those who don't share your beliefs? Who don't believe in a Christian God or Jesus? Basically, if they knew you were praying, they might say "thanks, I appreciate it, but you're basically just talking to yourself there". That's a harsh example, but you get what I mean.

Doesn't bother me one bit. Just because they don't believe doesn't mean I shouldn't. They are still God's creation in my eyes and deserve to be taken care of the same. What kind of Christian would I be if I only cared about other Christians? That's not the message we should be preaching. I care about everyone. I may not agree with everyone, I may argue with people, but in the end none of that matters.

[twa]

So wait, I deserve ire because I asked a question?

Or I don't necessarily see the world the way you do?

Isn't that doing exactly as you attempted to condemn me for above?

You're entitled to believe whatever it is you choose. As am I. I will never judge you for what you believe.

Admittedly, I may have taken this wrong, and I hope I did.

You are taking it wrong,no ire intended....I'm not condemning,simply saying there is no way to truly explain prayer w/o faith

It is like describing color to a blind person

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

A question that I have: How do people feel about the fact that they are praying for people who don't share the same religious beliefs (mostly)? This is a question, not a statement. To clarify: I am NOT saying that your prayers are not appreciated, or that they don't help, if you believe.

What I AM asking is: how do you, as a Christian (for example) feel about praying for those who don't share your beliefs? Who don't believe in a Christian God or Jesus? Basically, if they knew you were praying, they might say "thanks, I appreciate it, but you're basically just talking to yourself there". That's a harsh example, but you get what I mean.

Reminds me of Christopher Hitchens. If you don't know who he is, he's one of the world's most famous atheists and author of such books as "God Is Not Great". Also a popular journalist and blogger. Last year he was diagnosed with I think brain cancer. I'm not positive that it's terminal but I've been told it is. There was a lot of discussion in the blogosphere, about praying for him. Was it appropriate, did he deserve it, would he want it. Very interesting stuff.

EDIT: Throat cancer

Just googling it, there is also some disgusting stuff directed at him. But that's life and that's the internet.

[Tweedr01]

Yeah I dunno. I'm still not understanding why He would create a world where things like earthquakes and tsunami's happen. I'm talking on a physical level, not a spiritual one. Why would He physically create a world that has so much natural physical devastation?

I'm an agnostic who leans toward the existence of a higher power, but then I see disasters like what has happened in Japan or in Haiti and it really pushes me to the side of there being nothing.

That may be a question for techboy to answer, lol, but I can give it a shot. Have you ever thought that maybe some of the stuff man has made has contributed to any of the inclement weather? I also don't rule out the fact that the Rapture may be near. Jesus said that there will be a time of great peril on Earth. A time where the seas will roar and the earth will shake. It will be a time of famines and earthquakes like the world has not seen before.

Luke 21:25-26 (King James Version)

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

EDIT: Also, not to harp on what I said in the other thread, but to be honest if you don't believe in God before He has done a miracle why would you believe afterwards? Wouldn't that be chalked up to another scientific reasoning? Why can't God be the one who created that scientific reason?

EDIT again, lol: Sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth, which is exactly what it looks like I'm doing

[Conn]

Doesn't bother me one bit. Just because they don't believe doesn't mean I shouldn't. They are still God's creation in my eyes and deserve to be taken care of the same. What kind of Christian would I be if I only cared about other Christians? That's not the message we should be preaching. I care about everyone. I may not agree with everyone, I may argue with people, but in the end none of that matters.

This is a good answer, and one I can understand. Thanks, Tweedr.

Here's another one: If something happened to you, doesn't matter what, and you had a friend or acquaintance of another faith...what would you say to them if they told you that they were praying for you, knowing that they are not praying to your God? Or may even be praying to a god that your don't believe exists?

Now, is what you say to them the same as what you feel about it, on the inside? Would you be more "comforted" by a Christian friend's pledge to pray for you, because you actually believe that its doing you some good on some level? Or does the comfort actually come from just knowing that someone is thinking about you and your situation and hoping for you?

[Tweedr01]

The eating of the fruit was a sin, which resulted in death coming into the world but there was other things

Genesis 3:

17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and took to eating from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 And thorns and thistles it will grow for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

One of things we also have to aknowledge is our own nature is making things worse also, how much damage do we cause out of greed

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 08:50 AM ----------

Do unto others as you would have them do to you, seems to cover this well

I couldn't agree more with this post, very well written too

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 09:01 AM ----------

This is a good answer, and one I can understand. Thanks, Tweedr.

Here's another one: If something happened to you, doesn't matter what, and you had a friend or acquaintance of another faith...what would you say to them if they told you that they were praying for you, knowing that they are not praying to your God? Or may even be praying to a god that your don't believe exists?

Now, is what you say to them the same as what you feel about it, on the inside? Would you be more "comforted" by a Christian friend's pledge to pray for you, because you actually believe that its doing you some good on some level? Or does the comfort actually come from just knowing that someone is thinking about you and your situation and hoping for you?

I know my Christian brothers and sisters will be praying for me, and that is VERY comforting, lol.

You know, I never thought about it, I would like to believe I would thank them for praying for me. I would hope they know that I am a Christian and where my heart is though. The answer is I don't know, but again, them doing it I know means they care for me and I know that is comforting in itself too.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

T.

EDIT: Also, not to harp on what I said in the other thread, but to be honest if you don't believe in God before He has done a miracle why would you believe afterwards? Wouldn't that be chalked up to another scientific reasoning? Why can't God be the one who created that scientific reason?

EDIT again, lol: Sorry, not trying to put words in your mouth, which is exactly what it looks like I'm doing

So DrSmith is saying it's the OT stuff and you're saying it's NT stuff?

TECHBOY!!!!!

Just kidding. As far as not believing in God, I didn't say that. I said I'm an agnostic. I really heavily lean toward an existence of something (just not religion.) Just sometimes, like now, I really have my doubts. And I don't have scripture to turn to for answers.

As far as miracles go, a miracle, to me, is something that can't be explained by science. Like Moses parting the oceans, or Jesus walking on water and raising from the grave, Muhammed splitting the moon in two, etc.

[Tweedr01]

So DrSmith is saying it's the OT stuff and you're saying it's NT stuff?

TECHBOY!!!!!

Just kidding. As far as not believing in God, I didn't say that. I said I'm an agnostic. I really heavily lean toward an existence of something (just not religion.) Just sometimes, like now, I really have my doubts. And I don't have scripture to turn to for answers.

As far as miracles go, a miracle, to me, is something that can't be explained by science. Like Moses parting the oceans, or Jesus walking on water and raising from the grave, Muhammed splitting the moon in two, etc.

I agree with drsmith on his OT quotes as well. Thing is, we don't know exactly why. We likely never will, not until it's too late anyways. So what if someone was raised from the dead, would that be considered a miracle then? If not, then don't worry I won't bother you with it, but there is a book called "90 minutes in heaven". Guy is clinically dead and than for no reason at all comes back to life, true story, and the book is his description of what happened. It's pretty intense, but a great short read, like 200 small pages.

This is just a short summary of the book:

http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/book-review-90-minutes-in-heaven

Sorry, if you can't tell I really liked it, and I hate, hate, hate reading, lol. I have to read at school I don't wanna read at home, but it was something I couldn't put down.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Well I love reading and I'll read anything. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommendation

[KDawg]

I wanna commend everyone in this thread. Everyone checked their attitudes at the front door and the thread has a lot of good conversation.

:applause:

[Tweedr01]

Well I love reading and I'll read anything. I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommendation

no problem, it's a very....honest book, and he is very open with what he was thinking during the entire process.

---------- Post added March-15th-2011 at 09:34 AM ----------

I wanna commend everyone in this thread. Everyone checked their attitudes at the front door and the thread has a lot of good conversation.

:applause:

hey, honest and sincere questions result in honest and sincere answers. can't hate on someone trying to get some knowledge, lol

glad you set this thread up

[Sikbug]

praying won't do anything, sending money will. When I say support online I prefer to say I sending good vibes and or love.

[Tweedr01]

praying won't do anything, sending money will. When I say support online I prefer to say I sending good vibes and or love.

beg to differ, and we're gonna do it anyways

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I dunno, Revelations 21:1 talks about seeing a new heaven and earth as the old earth passes away. It makes me think that when we are all taken away to Heaven, that God will begin again, which is why I don't think we are even a final creation. I mean, He created the earth, and animals, and obviously we were last...this time. Again, Revelations makes it sound as if He is going to begin anew. Who knows, we may not be the first Earth either, God knows no time boundary.

To me the more I read about this and hear from others, the more I am amazed...in a good way.

I'm no theologian, but this is an excellent take IMO. :applause:

[Tweedr01]

I'm no theologian, but this is an excellent take IMO. :applause:

i appreciate it, i'm still learning, but the more i learn, the more questions i have, and the more astounded i am with the answers. sometimes there is no better word than amazing, and even that falls short. to sum it up, it's really cool.

[Sikbug]

beg to differ, and we're gonna do it anyways

Nothing wrong with that, before I go to sleep at night I've been saying a little prayer for them too, it doesn't hurt.