pjfootballer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't think Campbell would have fared any better than McNabb had he stayed. The best case scenario would probably have been to not make the trade for McNabb and still ship JC out to Oakland. Just let Grossman run the show and keep the draft picks. This is what I was going to say. Jason would not have cut it under Shanahan. We might have the free safety the Eagles got on our roster right now. ---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 02:52 PM ---------- Its so funny to read the same old lack of objectivity about Campbell coming from the same people.-keep hatin fellas extremeskins wouldn't be the same without it Enough with the stats. Please go post these on your favorite Campbell thread. We've been over these "ONE GAZILLION" times. After the article where he said he was the scapegoat, the question asked was would you have kept Campbell and the picks or went with Grossman, kept the picks and still shipped Campbell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm cool with this statement provided that you are including yourself in it. Except that my post includes actual facts and facts are by definition objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Bottom line: The QB position did not measurably improve despite sending valuable picks to upgrade the QB, right tackle, and left tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wonder if Hue or Tom Cable had to get on the mic and tell him how to run a huddle? Jason Campbell will never win a team anything meangful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Enough with the stats.....the question asked was would you have kept Campbell and the picks or went with Grossman, kept the picks and still shipped Campbell out. What do the stats suggest to you? The passing game w/ Campbell was better especially in the most important areas: on 3rd downs and in the RZ despite having FO/coaching/playcalling instabilty, no running game and a worse OL But, if i have to spell it out: keep Campbell save the draft picks This thread is proof positive that despite the preponderance of statistical evidence to the contrary Campbell is still being blamed- And btw QB that everyone wanted over Campell has yet to outperform him despite the Jets superior level of talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 But, if i have to spell it out:keep Campbell save the draft picks Thanks. That's all I wanted to hear. We've had so many debates on a QB that will be in his 2nd year with a new club that the petty bantering back and forth is giving me a headache. Like I said in the Campbell/Gradkowski thread, neither side will change their mind, so why keep beating your head against a brick wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeb Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What do the stats suggest to you?The passing game w/ Campbell was better especially in the most important areas: on 3rd downs and in the RZ despite having FO/coaching/playcalling instabilty, no running game and a worse OL But, if i have to spell it out: keep Campbell save the draft picks This thread is proof positive that despite the preponderance of statistical evidence to the contrary Campbell is still being blamed- And btw QB that everyone wanted over Campell has yet to outperform him despite the Jets superior level of talent Insert standard retort claiming something that cannot actually be proven (JC was a terrible leader, couldnt run the huddle, has no fire...etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks. That's all I wanted to hear. We've had so many debates on a QB that will be in his 2nd year with a new club that the petty bantering back and forth is giving me a headache. Like I said in the Campbell/Gradkowski thread, neither side will change their mind, so why keep beating your head against a brick wall? B/c its hard for me to read false BS and not respond The objective truth is out there and its easy to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 But, if i have to spell it out: keep Campbell save the draft picks I don't like Campbell, but i agree with this, I miss those picks. We should've kept Campbell and started Grossman. Then after 2010, trade Campbell to Oakland for the 5ht round pick in 2013 or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What do the stats suggest to you?The passing game w/ Campbell was better especially in the most important areas: on 3rd downs and in the RZ despite having FO/coaching/playcalling instabilty, no running game and a worse OL But, if i have to spell it out: keep Campbell save the draft picks This thread is proof positive that despite the preponderance of statistical evidence to the contrary Campbell is still being blamed- And btw QB that everyone wanted over Campell has yet to outperform him despite the Jets superior level of talent DG, why then did Shanahan dump JC ASAP on becoming HC? What is it that we're missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 DG, why then did Shanahan dump JC ASAP on becoming HC? What is it that we're missing? Because Shanahan had the opportunity to trade for a 6 time Pro-Bowl quarterback. Granted an aging quarterback, but still a proven winner. Shanahan gave JC the option to stay in Washington and compete for the back-up spot. It was Jason who went to MS and asked to be traded to a team where he could be the starter. I know. I know. Wasn't much demand out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 with the absoulute joke this unorganized and rudderless Front Office and ownership has been the last 10 years, can one honeslty say that they did a good job with the development of Jason Campbell? In other words, they did as good as job as any other team with the development of their only first round drafted QB this decade? did they? yes or no ... I never seem to get an answer to this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee99 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 c DG, why then did Shanahan dump JC ASAP on becoming HC? What is it that we're missing? Because DarellGreenie is obviously smarter than Shanahan and Mike is a Campbell hater...I tuned Darrell Greenie out long ago on this issue...if the Head coach decides JC is not his guy get the **** over it.....JC was horrible here and good luck wherever his sorry football playing ass goes......good guy though, but sucky QB here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 DG, why then did Shanahan dump JC ASAP on becoming HC? What is it that we're missing? "ASAP"?...Um, no. Shanahan dumped guys like Betts, Collins and Randle El asap on becoming head coach. Not Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Because DarellGreenie is obviously smarter than Shanahan and Mike is a Campbell hater...I tuned Darrell Greenie out long ago on this issue...if the Head coach decides JC is not his guy get the **** over it.....JC was horrible here and good luck wherever his sorry football playing ass goes......good guy though, but sucky QB here!!! Lol, and so it goes. And i see you're still not letting little things like the truth bother you. Shanahan didn't dump JC he could have 'dumped' JC when he dumped a bunch of other players but he re-signed JC. He then traded for a pro-bowl QB in McNabb. Then JC asked to be traded. In your time constructing your strawman did you take a look at i don't the stats? Did you notice that the passing offense w/ JC in 2009 was actually better then the passing offense in 2010 despite the 2009 unit having much less talent? You probably glossed over that part in your haste to post this non-sense. HTTR ---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 06:58 PM ---------- DG, why then did Shanahan dump JC ASAP on becoming HC? What is it that we're missing? You mean what are you missing beyond truth and objectivity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 In your time constructing your strawman did you take a look at i don't the stats? Did you notice that the passing offense w/ JC in 2009 was actually better then the passing offense in 2010 despite the 2009 unit having much less talent? You probably glossed over that part in your haste to post this non-sense. DG, you know passing stats are team stats for the most part , so they really aren't very accurate indicators. I think the majority of us will agree that no single stat better isolates the performance of the QB position, than the Football Outsiders DVOA. McNabb is at 0.1% this year Campbell was at -1.8% last year, and is at -3.7% this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 oaklands run game is the sole reason they took off. the only people who would claim otherwise are skins campbell homers. any defensive coordinator in the league would tell you their game plan was centered around stopping the mcfadden/bush attack.although if you caught sports center highlights, campbell still throws a mean screen pass! Campbell went 7-4 as the starter in Oakland Gradkowski went 1-4 with the same team. McFadden/Bush only like to run well when Campbell is the starter? Hey look if you reread my post I said "He isn't great but not nearly as bad as ES folks make him out to be" and I stand by that. Campbell is about as average as they come which is good enough to give Oakland a 8-8 record and 7-4 record with him as the starter. The way I see it you are more of a Campbell basher than I am a Campbell homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 DG, you know passing stats are team stats for the most part , so they really aren't very accurate indicators. I think the majority of us will agree that no single stat better isolates the performance of the QB position, than the Football Outsiders DVOA. McNabb is at 0.1% this year Campbell was at -1.8% last year, and is at -3.7% this year. Yeah, i agree more or less that passing stats are a team stat. That's why i said the passing offense was better w/ Campbell. And as you point out w/ DVOA the difference between Campbell and McNabb was negligible despite the fact that Campbell played on a worse team: in utter chaos (FO/coaching) w/ a worse OL, WRs, running game. And while DVOA is a nice metric lets not forget that the 3rd down conversion % and the RZ % were both much better w/ Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 with the absoulute joke this unorganized and rudderless Front Office and ownership has been the last 10 years, can one honeslty say that they did a good job with the development of Jason Campbell? In other words, they did as good as job as any other team with the development of their only first round drafted QB this decade? did they? yes or no ... I never seem to get an answer to this ...It's because the question make you look unaware of the last few years.We drafted Candle. Sat him for a year and a half to give him time to learn. Gave him a good OL, RB, top receiver, and a offensive guru from KC. Candle stinks it up in 2007, a career backup replaces him and suddenly we're a playoff team. WE SCRAPPED THAT OFFENSE to bring in a coach to specifically improve Candle. For awhile the OL and RB carry the team, until the old OL finally gives out, and Candle is mediocre at best. So we trade Candle to one of the few teams he can go in as the starter at that time. We put forth more effort to develop that sorry excuse of a starting QB, than anybody deserves. And what do we get from this supposedly classy player and his supporters? "I was the scapegoat." "Can one honeslty say that they did a good job with the development of Jason Campbell" The answer is yes, the Skins did their part. Candle didn't do his. But that should be blindingly obvious, hence the lack of response to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 hes played better in oakland, but thats a direct result of maybe the most pummeling running game in the NFL. remember campbell used to play decently when portis was running wild most of the time. fact remains that leaning on campbell is an awful idea for a team, and to be considered a good QB you have to be able to put the team on your shoulders and win. he still cannot do that and never will. Maybe, but I think he proved that he's a capable starter in this league and a QB who is, at the very least, average. Something you and a lot of others went way overboard trying to disprove... how many times did we have to hear from you all that he's the worst QB in the league with the exception of Jamarcus Russel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutch03 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Maybe, but I think he proved that he's a capable starter in this league and a QB who is, at the very least, average. Something you and a lot of others went way overboard trying to disprove... how many times did we have to hear from you all that he's the worst QB in the league with the exception of Jamarcus Russel? Exactly the point I was trying to make that thesubmittedone summed up perfectly. Just because a lot of us didn't believe he was the worst QB in the league we were labeled as JC homers which still doesn't make any sense to me. You can't get more average then JC yet there were many that believed he shouldn't start anywhere ever. But yet he did and ended with a winning record. Something our pro bowl/future hall of fame QB could not do with a better coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yeah, i agree more or less that passing stats are a team stat.That's why i said the passing offense was better w/ Campbell. The passing offense was better with Campbell, but the passing offense isn't the same this year, receivers are different, scheme is different. It's very difficult to isolate the exact impact either QB had on the offense, especially since both offenses were in a constant state of flux. And as you point out w/ DVOA the difference between Campbell and McNabb was negligible despite the fact that Campbell played on a worse team: in utter chaos (FO/coaching) w/ a worse OL, WRs, running game. The difference is slight, but McNabb's is better, and I would argue this team was in a similar state of chaos this season. OL- Last year tackles were awful, but guard play wasn't atrocious, this year we've gained a LT, but the ability for teams to get pressure up the A-gap on us has been insane. Either way I wouldn't want to be the QB by the line, but I have a difficult time saying this year's line is that much better than last years. WR- You got me here. Pretty much remained the same except for the emergence of a solid #2 in Armstrong, which Campbell didn't have the luxury of. Rushing attack-Also remained pretty much the same. 2010 2009 21.9 att 24.4 4.2 ypc 3.9 91 ypg 94.4 And while DVOA is a nice metric lets not forget that the 3rd down conversion % and the RZ % were both much better w/ Campbell. Can't argue against that, but again it's difficult to isolate the impact Campbell actually had. But I don't mean to take credit away from him a 110 pr in the RZ is damn impressive, clearly he was doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phixius Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Seems to me that Campbell hasn't learn anything. One problem I had with Campbell was that he expected everyone to hold his hands. Campbell said it himself, he had a better supporting cast. All of their wins were on a strong rushing, good defense, and a occasional passing play from Campbell. Campbell played no better in Oakland than he did here. Campbell expects everything to be handed to him and don't improvise at all. He still can't take responsibility for his own play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 He also went 6-0 in the division, 7-4 as a starter and led one of the biggest joke franchises in the league to their first .500 season in 8 years. I'd say Bruce Grad kept them from the playoffs since he went 1-4, but why let facts get in the way of a good bash session.Same old crybaby? Cause he wasn't professional when he was here? And McNabb hasn't whined at all, right? JC...is that you?? Oh ****! What's up, bro??? How's my favorite captain checkdown, take-no-responsibility QB doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beans Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Campbell is pathetic, as a player and to watch play. It's painful watching him attempt to impersonate a NFL quarterback. Anyone that think otherwise isn't very perceptive, or doesn't understand anything about football. Campbell couldn't even convincingy beat out Bruce Gradkowkski as the starter. The fact that there was asolutely zero interest around the league speaks volumes about that loser. Skins gave him to Oakland for free. What will all the Campbell lovers say when Oakland drafts a QB early? Will these debates ever stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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