Draft Question / take Luck in the 6th?

[bentskin]

A player who is drafted but does not sign a contract can sit out that season, which is referred to as a "holdout", and can re-enter the draft the following year unless he is told differently by the NFL commissioner.

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/nfl-draft4.htm

Teams can draft almost anyone they want. In fact, the Dallas Cowboys have drafted two players with no football experience -- Olympic gold-medallists Carl Lewis in 1984 (12th round) and Bob Hayes in 1964 (7th round). Hayes took the ball and ran with it, while Lewis turned down the Cowboys for more Olympic gold...The deadline for underclassmen, sophomores and juniors, to declare themselves eligible for the NFL draft is in January. Once a player declares for the draft, they forego their remaining eligibility to play college football, which means that once they declare for the draft they cannot return to play in college.

Only Underclassmen have to declare to announce that they forgoing their remaining years of eligibility. Draft an underclassmen at your own risk. Wait for him to play out his year, hire an agent and then sign prior to the next draft. Easy.

Lets get this done.

[TotalRecall]

Tell that to the fans who come out to support the team every game...Tell that to the guys on our team and our coaches right now who work hard year round and put it on the line during the season....Hey, nevermind all that hard work you're putting in...we're gonna go into this year trying to lose every game and go through a miserable season, in hopes that ONE player can turn everything around. Who cares if you're not going to be here next year or this might be your last year in the NFL?

You don't tank an entire season.

Other than some money, there's no prize for coming in second place!!! You can tell that to all the players! To begin with, they all should be very fortunate just to be in the NFL collecting a huge salary! Secondly, after this season, do they REALLY think they will be in next year's playoffs (much more win the Super Bowl) with Rex Grossman or Donovan McNabb?!?!? If our current players don't already know that we have to rebuild again the next 2 seasons, then they are delusional and apparently some of the fans also.

[Rypien1191]

It's called rebuilding. They are putting in hardwork and being rewarded. They are being given a chance in the NFL. You want to worry about the feelings of the players? Fine. Trade them to contenders. But at the end of the day, the team's future direction and solid footing is what is important. The Redskins team is more important to most than any single player. Those players that stick and play on the 2014 championship will look back at 2011 as a necessary step to getting their ring.

Exactly, the team is more important than any single player. The 100+ players and coaches that put in the work for an entire year (and more, because you wouldn't automatically be good the next year) are more important than ONE player you are building your future around. And how many players and coaches do you think would still be around for this alleged "2014 championship" that are on the team next year?

Rebuilding is not tanking a season and mortgaging a future on ONE player. Plus, who's to say hes a sure thing? He will probably be good, sure, but you have no idea if he'll be a Manning/Brady, or a Leaf/Russell, or even a Carson Palmer. Then where are you? Or an injury.....you never know.

You rebuild a team the right way.... stockpiling draft picks, good scouting, building from the lines out.. a FA here or there where needed. Its going to take a while from the hole Vinny dug but we will get there.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 12:58 PM ----------

Other than some money, there's no prize for coming in second place!!! You can tell that to all the players! To begin with, they all should be very fortunate just to be in the NFL collecting a huge salary! Secondly, after this season, do they REALLY think they will be in next year's playoffs (much more win the Super Bowl) with Rex Grossman or Donovan McNabb?!?!? If our current players don't already know that we have to rebuild again the next 2 seasons, then they are delusional and apparently some of the fans also.

This 'tanking' argument is so ridiculous that I really don't even want to debate against it. Needless to say, its never going to happen. Why? For one, its NEVER happened...two, the guys who put in the work aren't going to throw an entire season for the hope of one guy.

You 'tanking' folks should show up to the first day of camp and make your argument to the guys... "HEY FELLAS... LETS LOSE EVERY GAME THIS YEAR... WE'LL GET THIS GOOD QB OUT OF COLLEGE AND MAYBE IN THREE YEARS WE'LL BE GOOD AGAIN, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS CAN'T HANDLE IT! ONE GUY WILL FIX IT!!"

A real morale booster. Let's see you get all the people who are actually important in line with that one.

[GibbsFactor]

Exactly, the team is more important than any single player. The 100+ players and coaches that put in the work for an entire year (and more, because you wouldn't automatically be good the next year) are more important than ONE player you are building your future around. And how many players and coaches do you think would still be around for this alleged "2014 championship" that are on the team next year?

Rebuilding is not tanking a season and mortgaging a future on ONE player. Plus, who's to say hes a sure thing? He will probably be good, sure, but you have no idea if he'll be a Manning/Brady, or a Leaf/Russell, or even a Carson Palmer. Then where are you? Or an injury.....you never know.

You rebuild a team the right way.... stockpiling draft picks, good scouting, building from the lines out.. a FA here or there where needed. Its going to take a while from the hole Vinny dug but we will get there.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 12:58 PM ----------

This 'tanking' argument is so ridiculous that I really don't even want to debate against it. Needless to say, its never going to happen. Why? For one, its NEVER happened...two, the guys who put in the work aren't going to throw an entire season for the hope of one guy.

You 'tanking' folks should show up to the first day of camp and make your argument to the guys... "HEY FELLAS... LETS LOSE EVERY GAME THIS YEAR... WE'LL GET THIS GOOD QB OUT OF COLLEGE AND MAYBE IN THREE YEARS WE'LL BE GOOD AGAIN, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS CAN'T HANDLE IT! ONE GUY WILL FIX IT!!"

A real morale booster. Let's see you get all the people who are actually important in line with that one.

It's not just one player. It's a complete overhaul of players with youth, talent and potential. I'll point you to the late 80s early 90s Cowboys. Use their model. It works. You have to select the right players but any team with a large infusion of young talent will be on the upswing, especially when one of the young talents happens to be a QB.

[nelsonal]

I think Elway was drafted or signed by the Yankees, so he told the Colts that if he wasn't traded he'd play baseball.

Great sig btw.

[TotalRecall]

Damn right - if only because if the NFL get so much of a whiff of tanking games they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks - don't even think about it

They wouldn't know. Take a page out of the Dallas playbook draft a rookie QB (In Dallas' case, 2 rookie QBs) and throw him out in the fire all season long.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 01:08 PM ----------

This 'tanking' argument is so ridiculous that I really don't even want to debate against it. Needless to say, its never going to happen. Why? For one, its NEVER happened...two, the guys who put in the work aren't going to throw an entire season for the hope of one guy.

You 'tanking' folks should show up to the first day of camp and make your argument to the guys... "HEY FELLAS... LETS LOSE EVERY GAME THIS YEAR... WE'LL GET THIS GOOD QB OUT OF COLLEGE AND MAYBE IN THREE YEARS WE'LL BE GOOD AGAIN, CAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS CAN'T HANDLE IT! ONE GUY WILL FIX IT!!"

A real morale booster. Let's see you get all the people who are actually important in line with that one.

Every time they start a rookie QB, THEY ARE TANKING THE SEASON!!!!! Only 2 NFL rookie starting QBs won a playoff game EVER! And only 3 second-year QBs (no rookie starting QBs) have started in a Super Bowl.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I just read the CBA. I think a team could do this, but it would be stupid.

A team is not drating a player. The team is drafting the player's exclusive negotiating rights.

Those rights terminate after Week 10 of the NFL season. At that point, the player becomes a free agent (though no longer eligible to play that season).

I'm sure there is some more technical points, but if the Skins did this, they would need to sign Luck by Week 10 next year - at which point he will be playing Oregon State.

[K.O. Johnny]

They wouldn't know. Take a page out of the Dallas playbook draft a rookie QB (In Dallas' case, 2 rookie QBs) and throw him out in the fire all season long.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 01:08 PM ----------

Every time they start a rookie QB, THEY ARE TANKING THE SEASON!!!!! Only 2 NFL rookie starting QBs won a playoff game EVER! And only 2 second-year QBs have started in a Super Bowl.

Do you seriously believe what you write?

Start tanking games at your peril - you may well end up with the first pick overall - only for the league to step in and strip you of it and probably the rest of the draft too

[Mr. Cooke]

...So, you're saying we've got a chance.

[AirMayo21]

I'll repeat, some people on this board make me wanna kiss a pistol...

[TotalRecall]

Do you seriously believe what you write?

Start tanking games at your peril - you may well end up with the first pick overall - only for the league to step in and strip you of it and probably the rest of the draft too

What's the league going to do? Say you can't start rookie QBs?!? Currently, it's not illegal. So, they can't punish us for doing it! The NFL wouldn't say that anyways, because they want star QBs, like Flacco, Ryan, and Bradford, out there playing.

[K.O. Johnny]

What's the league going to do? Say you can't start rookie QBs?!? Currently, it's not illegal. So, they can't punish us for doing it! The NFL wouldn't say that anyways, because they want star QBs, like Flacco, Ryan, and Bradford, out there playing.

It's a multi-billion $ league, which tries (i think successfully) to create parity and competitiveness year in year out - and you think they are gonna tolerate tanking to 0-16?

I tell you what the league would do if it suspected tanking the season - they'd get a committee up to examine every play, every personnel decision, every injury would be investigated, and every player and coach would be questioned - and then that committee would present a recommendation of it's findings to Goodell. No jury, no nothing. Don't even go there TotalRecall

[GibbsFactor]

It's a multi-billion $ league, which tries (i think successfully) to create parity and competitiveness year in year out - and you think they are gonna tolerate tanking to 0-16?

I tell you what the league would do if it suspected tanking the season - they'd get a committee up to examine every play, every personnel decision, every injury would be investigated, and every player and coach would be questioned - and then that committee would present a recommendation of it's findings to Goodell. No jury, no nothing. Don't even go there TotalRecall

Um what? You announce that you are rebuilding, getting younger, cutting fat. It's done all the time.

[K.O. Johnny]

Um what? You announce that you are rebuilding, getting younger, cutting fat. It's done all the time.

I'm gonna stop posting on this subject - hopefully no one in any position of power is stupid enough to even contemplate tanking to 0-16.

If you can't see what I'm saying, I can't show you

[GibbsFactor]

I'm gonna stop posting on this subject - hopefully no one in any position of power is stupid enough to even contemplate tanking to 0-16.

If you can't see what I'm saying, I can't show you

You are implying that we would intentionally lose games on purpose. I'm implying that we would field a squad that wouldn't win a game for trying.

See the difference?

[MartinC]

Every time they start a rookie QB, THEY ARE TANKING THE SEASON!!!!! Only 2 NFL rookie starting QBs won a playoff game EVER! And only 3 second-year QBs (no rookie starting QBs) have started in a Super Bowl.

Right off the top of my head I can name three rookie QBs who won playoff game - Big Ben, Flacco and Sanchez. Also there is a difference between playing a rookie QB and taking some lumps as part of accelerating his development while trying to win games and setting out with a strategy of losing on purpose. You would absolutely ruin the psychology of the locker room and your players would never trust the coaching staff again.

[bentskin]

I just read the CBA. I think a team could do this, but it would be stupid.

A team is not drafting a player. The team is drafting the player's exclusive negotiating rights.

Those rights terminate after Week 10 of the NFL season. At that point, the player becomes a free agent (though no longer eligible to play that season).

I'm sure there is some more technical points, but if the Skins did this, they would need to sign Luck by Week 10 next year - at which point he will be playing Oregon State.

I think you confused a drafted player with RFA like the Charger's Vincent Jackson. He must sign by wk 10 to accrue a year of playing time and then be granted FA the following year. If he had not signed by week 10 he still would not have become a FA. I am not sure how you have come to that conclusion.

When a team drafts a player they have 1 year, until the following draft to sign that player. He then goes back into the draft. He is not granted Free Agency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft

The drafting team has one year to sign the player. If they do not do so, the player may reenter the draft and can be drafted by another team. Bo Jackson famously sat out a season in this way.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 12:57 PM ----------

I think somehow this got off topic. The point of the post was not in any way to TANK GAMES or field a crappy team. It is, rules permitting, an idea on drafting a player a year early to secure his rights. To use a draft pick on a player that you know will not contribute to your team for one full year. This player would obviously have to be a very very solid prospect and individual. But, man, are you telling me that anyone here would not give a 6th round pick for the right to wait on Andrew Luck or a player of his caliber?

[TotalRecall]

Right off the top of my head I can name three rookie QBs who won playoff game - Big Ben, Flacco and Sanchez. Also there is a difference between playing a rookie QB and taking some lumps as part of accelerating his development while trying to win games and setting out with a strategy of losing on purpose. You would absolutely ruin the psychology of the locker room and your players would never trust the coaching staff again.

Yeah, there were 4 rookie QBs that won a playoff game (Shaun King, the other one, although he only started 5 games during the regular season). And the common thread out of the 4 is a great defense, which I might add we don't have.

The veterans may be upset about starting a rookie QB next season, but the younger players will understand. One way or another, the organization will either hit rock bottom or we will continue to be in perpetual mediocrity. And as I stated before, if the players or the fans don't know we are still rebuilding the next two seasons, then they are delusional. Trading for McNabb was a big mistake with the same ole win now-pay later philosophy that the Redskins have been doing the past 12 years.

---------- Post added January-7th-2011 at 02:46 PM ----------

I think somehow this got off topic. The point of the post was not in any way to TANK GAMES or field a crappy team. It is, rules permitting, an idea on drafting a player a year early to secure his rights. To use a draft pick on a player that you know will not contribute to your team for one full year. This player would obviously have to be a very very solid prospect and individual. But, man, are you telling me that anyone here would not give a 6th round pick for the right to wait on Andrew Luck or a player of his caliber?

I don't see the NFL letting this happen. It would defeat the whole purpose of the draft. Imagine the Colts or Pats doing this.

[bentskin]

I don't see the NFL letting this happen. It would defeat the whole purpose of the draft. Imagine the Colts or Pats doing this.

If there is not a rule against it then there is no recourse. A bit different but it used to be illegal to spike the ball, it was called intentional grounding. So someone, the Vikings I think, came up with simply throwing the ball over a receiver's head to stop the clock. The NFL then instituted a rule that you could spike the ball to stop the clock. If there is not a rule against it and a team is willing sacrifice a down or in this case a year of playing time for a player than I think it is worth the risk/reward. It is not like this guy is going to play baseball or something. He will be on your team in 2012. Getting a contract done in 4 months between the end of the season and the next draft should not be difficult. And if you don't, that's just another 6th / 7th rounder that did not make the team. No big loss.

[Truant]

If there is not a rule against it then there is no recourse. A bit different but it used to be illegal to spike the ball, it was called intentional grounding. So someone, the Vikings I think, came up with simply throwing the ball over a receiver's head to stop the clock. The NFL then instituted a rule that you could spike the ball to stop the clock. If there is not a rule against it and a team is willing sacrifice a down or in this case a year of playing time for a player than I think it is worth the risk/reward. It is not like this guy is going to play baseball or something. He will be on your team in 2012. Getting a contract done in 4 months between the end of the season and the next draft should not be difficult. And if you don't, that's just another 6th / 7th rounder that did not make the team. No big loss.

There are obviously checks put in-place against this. This isn't the first time someone has had this idea. It will never be done EVER because it can't be done.

[bentskin]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Truant. I should have known it was so obviously impossible that it can't be done. My bad.

Or maybe it can be done, there is no RULE against this, but it is more a case of professional courtesy between owners / organizations as a whole that it would not be proper.

Either way, I do appreciate your obvious exhaustive research into this and the information you presented to back up your opinion.

Good Day.

[Dirt]

hehehe

"Did you hear? Luck is staying for his last year of college!"

"Whatever, I'm drafting him anyway."

[honejc]

hey i got an idea... why dont we find something he holds very dear to his heart and control it so we have leverage over his life and he wont be able to go to any other team but ours...

yea... not going to happen doesnt even make sense

[Darth Tater]

We have done something similar before.

Cal Rossi was an American football running back at the University of California, Los Angeles. He is the only football player ever to be selected twice in the NFL Draft.

[Timmy Smith]

idea FAIL.