Oh my! The sky is falling!

[tr1]

Well, there are two sides to every story, isn't there?

Shanny is about to fire McNabb. Is anyone really shocked? He's led the team to an awful record. He's been as incompetent as JC...missing open receivers...oh, and missing 'check-down' guys. He's as bad as he was in Philly, but doesn't have Westbrook to bail him out. And, the natives in ES are absolutely...well...ambiguous. Half are saying we should have realized he was a turd and never spent the draft picks...and the other half are saying we've abandoned the guy.

Well, this team has needed a wake up call for a long time. Shanny is entitled to hiring 'his' guys. It happens in America every day. A new boss comes in, and he puts 'his' people in place. Sometimes it happens in a month....sometimes six months...but usually, the **** hits the fan at the end of the first year. So, guess what? Shanny is moving the team into his direction.

Oh sure, he may fail. It happens a lot. But, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year? Jimmy Johnson and Joe Gibbs would likely have been fired after their first year...except that reasonable men gave them enough time to prove themselves....yeah, I'm even giving Jerruh props for letting a guy have more than ONE year to prove himself.

Hey, if we attended every practice and watched all the film, I'm sure we'd probably come to the same conclusion as Shanny has: this team pretty much sucks...and qb is a problem.

Perhaps the Eagles were right...McNabb was done. Why then, you ask, would we spend a #2 for this guy? Well, for Shanny, the answer was easy. Here's a guy with a good history who will INSTANTLY make the entire organization forget about one Jason Campbell. Imagine the crap Shanny would have endured by keeping JC...and having this same record.

Shanny put up with McNabb until we were out of the playoff picture. Now, it's time to plan for the future. To see which guys want to stay and play, or ***** and moan.

Frankly, this is as refreshing as the time Shotty was here. He came in and stopped the festering...it took half a season, but by the time it was over, he'd identified some guys who were willing to play. Unfortunately, Dan pulled the trigger on him.

I'm tired of having an organization run by the players. It doesn't work...players' coaches don't work.

I like Shanny's style. I hope Dan does, too.

So, suck it up fellas. If we're going to be competitive, some mistakes will be made...but in the long run, we'll gain respect and attract better players.

Vinny crapped on this organization....it's going to take more than one year to clean up the mess.

[TaylorPickSix]

Objectively, your post is completely accurate.

Based on the track record of this franchise the past decade, I'm just not entirely certain that's what's going on here. I am desperately hoping this team gets blown to bits this offseason, but I'm holding my breath. I just don't trust that we actually will do what is necessary to become a team like Pittsburgh or New England.

[Coolio47]

If I was Shanahan, I would have treated these last three games sort of like the preseason.

Have Mcnabb play against Dallas, Beck against Jacksonville, and Grossman against New York.

[joeknows]

But, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year? Jimmy Johnson and Joe Gibbs would likely have been fired after their first year...except that reasonable men gave them enough time to prove themselves....yeah, I'm even giving Jerruh props for letting a guy have more than ONE year to prove himself.

so shanny cant be judged in one year but mcnabb can be judged in less than one? not sure i follow this line of thinking.

i DO like the no nonsense attitude... but i think the reason Mc5 hasnt performed well is because of the fact that we have arguably the worst OL in the league. and the argument that JC hasnt shown anything with the raiders is moot because we KNOW they suck too. its where veterans go to die.

i still think that we would have done just as well to keep JC until we had the answer rather than bringing in an aging vet for the price we paid.

but again, im not sure it is fair to pull the trigger on Mc5 because he has a line that affords him no protection at all!

if we are gonna pull the trigger ...how about we start with Rabach?

[CPORTISFAN999]

Well, there are two sides to every story, isn't there?

Shanny is about to fire McNabb. Is anyone really shocked? He's led the team to an awful record. He's been as incompetent as JC...missing open receivers...oh, and missing 'check-down' guys. He's as bad as he was in Philly, but doesn't have Westbrook to bail him out. And, the natives in ES are absolutely...well...ambiguous. Half are saying we should have realized he was a turd and never spent the draft picks...and the other half are saying we've abandoned the guy.

Well, this team has needed a wake up call for a long time. Shanny is entitled to hiring 'his' guys. It happens in America every day. A new boss comes in, and he puts 'his' people in place. Sometimes it happens in a month....sometimes six months...but usually, the **** hits the fan at the end of the first year. So, guess what? Shanny is moving the team into his direction.

Oh sure, he may fail. It happens a lot. But, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year? Jimmy Johnson and Joe Gibbs would likely have been fired after their first year...except that reasonable men gave them enough time to prove themselves....yeah, I'm even giving Jerruh props for letting a guy have more than ONE year to prove himself.

Hey, if we attended every practice and watched all the film, I'm sure we'd probably come to the same conclusion as Shanny has: this team pretty much sucks...and qb is a problem.

Perhaps the Eagles were right...McNabb was done. Why then, you ask, would we spend a #2 for this guy? Well, for Shanny, the answer was easy. Here's a guy with a good history who will INSTANTLY make the entire organization forget about one Jason Campbell. Imagine the crap Shanny would have endured by keeping JC...and having this same record.

Shanny put up with McNabb until we were out of the playoff picture. Now, it's time to plan for the future. To see which guys want to stay and play, or ***** and moan.

Frankly, this is as refreshing as the time Shotty was here. He came in and stopped the festering...it took half a season, but by the time it was over, he'd identified some guys who were willing to play. Unfortunately, Dan pulled the trigger on him.

I'm tired of having an organization run by the players. It doesn't work...players' coaches don't work.

I like Shanny's style. I hope Dan does, too.

So, suck it up fellas. If we're going to be competitive, some mistakes will be made...but in the long run, we'll gain respect and attract better players.

Vinny crapped on this organization....it's going to take more than one year to clean up the mess.

eh, idk if i would say mcnabb has been as incompetent as jason campbell. honestly, do u think we would have won the game in philly with campbell as our qb? do u think campbell would have/could have driven us down the field to tie the game against green bay? do u think campbell would have given us the chance to beat the colts? do u think campbell helps us beat the titans, especially with the injuries we had in that game? do u think campbell leads us down the field sunday against the buccaneers to give us a chance at overtime?

i dont think he could have/would have done that if he was the qb this season. mcnabb did that and i think mcnabb, outside of the rams, bears,lions,2nd eagles game, and giants game, has actually been pretty good for us this season.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

so shanny cant be judged in one year but mcnabb can be judged in less than one? not sure i follow this line of thinking.

i DO like the no nonsense attitude... but i think the reason Mc5 hasnt performed well is because of the fact that we have arguably the worst OL in the league. and the argument that JC hasnt shown anything with the raiders is moot because we KNOW they suck too. its where veterans go to die.

i still think that we would have done just as well to keep JC until we had the answer rather than bringing in an aging vet for the price we paid.

but again, im not sure it is fair to pull the trigger on Mc5 because he has a line that affords him no protection at all!

if we are gonna pull the trigger ...how about we start with Rabach?

Well just like Jason's situation, I think that there's blame that lies with McNabb too. It's not all O-line, or all WRs dropping balls, part of the blame is with McNabb. Last weekends game McNabb had a number of times where he took a sack instead of throwing the ball away, or scrambling. He at times put his line in bad situations, which surprised me because overall he's been better than Jason in that aspect. If you watch Shanny's presser on Redskins.com I think he summed up his view on the situation quite well.

[drowland]

So you're saying the McNabb trade is justifiable simply because it made the organization forget about Jason Campbell?

That's worth a 2nd and 3rd/4th rd pick?

If Shanahan's so well respected and no nonsene, why would he need to do that?

[ABSTRACT]

The only inaccurate thing in your article is comparing McNabb to JC....NEVER do that again. JC is still a horrible QB despite how well the Raiders record. JC has been on and off the bench constantly. I watch many Raiders games online to analyze JC and he still has the horrible mechanics that he has had here (especially in our West Coast offense). OAK allows JC to throw alot of short screens to powerful RBs like Mcfadden and they just get ridiculous YAC....and he bombs it every so often to a speedingly open Ford.(Jacoby Ford is AMAZING)

You are right. Shanny will get years to rebuild this piece of ******* that Vinny has mustered up and we will be better with patience. I'm actually ashamed in the media and the vulnerable fans for perpetuating the ridiculous idea of firing Shanny after a season. After all this organization went through....I though we (out of all people/fans) would learn how to be patient and BUILD something....but I guess we are used to being quitters...I hope Dan isn't. Shanny will build us into winners with time.

[Guest Spearfeather]

Well just like Jason's situation, I think that there's blame that lies with McNabb too. It's not all O-line, or all WRs dropping balls, part of the blame is with McNabb. Last weekends game McNabb had a number of times where he took a sack instead of throwing the ball away, or scrambling. He at times put his line in bad situations, which surprised me because overall he's been better than Jason in that aspect. If you watch Shanny's presser on Redskins.com I think he summed up his view on the situation quite well.

Exactly, and even when he has time to throw, he still makes some bad decisions and poor throws.

[joeknows]

Well just like Jason's situation, I think that there's blame that lies with McNabb too. It's not all O-line, or all WRs dropping balls, part of the blame is with McNabb. Last weekends game McNabb had a number of times where he took a sack instead of throwing the ball away, or scrambling. He at times put his line in bad situations, which surprised me because overall he's been better than Jason in that aspect. If you watch Shanny's presser on Redskins.com I think he summed up his view on the situation quite well.

i dont deny that Mc5 has his share of blame to be mentioned, but i dont think anyone could be productive behind that line especially with Rabach at center stepping on his feet a couple times a game.

when you have a qb that is standing in a collapsing pocket looking to make ANYTHING happen... yeah sometimes the sack is gonna happen before it can be avoided.

and to be fair and honest ... i too was highly disappointed in the worm burners thrown to wide open check downs.

but to say that shanahan cant be judged after one year and mcnabb can be judged in less than that behind THIS OL i think is kinda unfair.

[s0crates]

I agree we have to be patient and give Shanny a chance to build his team, but I do not like benching McNabb this week. Next week maybe, but not this week.

I just want to beat Dallas. I think benching McNabb on Dallas week is a bad idea. Not only does it create a huge distraction from the game at hand, but I would also think the guy who has played 13 games with this team gives you a better chance than the guy who who has not started since 2008. I will not leap to conclusions about this. Hopefully Shanny knows something about Grossman that I do not.

Maybe I am wrong and Grossman lights it up, but maybe I am right and we are effectively blowing our chance to sweep Dallas. I think Shanny should have waited one more week. This is Washington. You gotta beat Dallas.

[Commander PK]

I just want to beat Dallas.

and herein lies the problem with many Redskins fans. It's not just about Dallas. It's about having a legit playoff contender every season. A place we are never going to get unless Shanahan and Allen are allowed to make this team over. They have decided that they have to evaluate the other two QB's, and McNabb may not be back. FINE. It's not just about McNabb, and no he's not the only problem on the team. Does that mean he's above being benched?

I'm starting to believe the fans are less upset about McNabb being benched, then they are that it's Dallas week that the decision was made. Personally, if the decision had to be made, I don't give a crap when he made it. Teams don't win Lombardi's by only beating Dallas.

[wvufootball1976]

Ya funny how he's had all these great seasons and he comes here and is suddendly terrrible? No its our garbage line, no running bak help and a terrible defensive coach and scheme, nevermind our terrrible offensive coordinator. Of course Shanny won't put any blame on him. I've defended EVERYTHING Redskins for years and years. I've always made excuses for why we're so bad to everyone that's always knocking how crappy we are every year. Been a fan since birth as this has always been my father's team. And I have nver been as mad with this organization as I am today. Totally screwing McNabb over here and it's not right. I'm gonna go take a deep breath now that I got that out.

[TSO]

Well put, tr1. My sig is all that's needed for me to add to this thread.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

i dont deny that Mc5 has his share of blame to be mentioned, but i dont think anyone could be productive behind that line especially with Rabach at center stepping on his feet a couple times a game.

when you have a qb that is standing in a collapsing pocket looking to make ANYTHING happen... yeah sometimes the sack is gonna happen before it can be avoided.

and to be fair and honest ... i too was highly disappointed in the worm burners thrown to wide open check downs.

but to say that shanahan cant be judged after one year and mcnabb can be judged in less than that behind THIS OL i think is kinda unfair.

That's completely fair, and I understand where you're coming from. Personally I'm not going to judge McNabb completely off of this season, I think that he can make improvements with another year in the system (I'm actually a big McNabb fan, have liked him since 'Cuse). I think that when you look at how McNabb has performed even with this o-line there have been certain things that I've seen out of him that disappointed me. Whether it was decision making, or errant throws, there were times where throws or situations that you would have thought he'd be a noted improvement over any of our other QBs, and he simply hasn't established himself as absolutely hands down the best option for us at QB. That's what I think Shanahan said in so many words, if you watch his presser he says that the reason for the move was to see what he has in the other QBs before he commits to anyone. I think that's fair all things considered.

[visionary]

Personally I'm not going to judge McNabb completely off of this season, I think that he can make improvements with another year in the system.

Um...you mean on another team right?

I think McNabb's done here. lol

[joeknows]

I think that when you look at how McNabb has performed even with this o-line there have been certain things that I've seen out of him that disappointed me. Whether it was decision making, or errant throws, there were times where throws or situations that you would have thought he'd be a noted improvement over any of our other QBs, and he simply hasn't established himself as absolutely hands down the best option for us at QB.

im not arguing with you so please understand that.... however... if HE of all people hasnt performed any better than any other QB... then maybe the problem isnt at the QB position?

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Um...you mean on another team right?

I think McNabb's done here. lol

No, I meant with the Skins. I'm sure he wont be back, but it was a hypothetical statement. I'd posit that if McNabb had another year in the system, he'd be better.

im not arguing with you so please understand that.... however... if HE of all people hasnt performed any better than any other QB... then maybe the problem isnt at the QB position?

Oh trust me, I'm not taking it as argument, and I do see your point. But I think what Shanny sees is that if McNabb is going to perform badly, he might as well see is the guy who is behind him is really that bad. Because if Grossman will perform just as poorly behind a bad o-line, at worst he has the same problems but at least he's cheaper, and we can see what we have before we commit a bunch of money to Mcnabb.

Edit: In-fact I think our point is the same, we're just presenting it from different views.

[flexxskins]

I'm not sure how objective you can be or how unbiased your opinion about a player is when you start out by calling the guy a "turd".

Also, I don't understand how the OP can make the statement "but, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year?" after having already basically condemning another in less than a year. That's kind of a contradiction. Isn't it?

McNabb frustrated the hell out of me and a whole hell of a lot of other Redskins fans this season. He played his part in a lot of really bad plays. I just hope that we don't realize after he is gone that it was the fact that he didn't have a lot to work with. It's not like players haven't left here and flourish elsewhere before.

[1972FAN]

McNabb is not the QB for Shanahan's system, period. He tried to mold him correct his footing, whatever, it doesn't matter he's a 10+ year vet and he's not changing. He's better to leave to play for a team that plays his style, system, whatever you want to call it. We can get compensation back for him. At least thats what the so called experts said on ESPN (Patriots Arse kissers), NFL network (Jason Lackinforia) "oh there's plenty of teams out there that would take McNabb in a heart beat!, Great!, I guess were getting compensation back since you guys seems to know so many teams that are dying to have him, good news for McNabb and the Redskins. We both win

[scruffylookin]

First, Jason Campbell played better than The Franchise QB with a similar lack of talent around him and with far more disfunction going on around him (Zorn neutered and the bingo caller brought in) so I wish people stop with the whole "mcNabb is better than Campbell" nonsense because that is just an opinion and perception based on their careers to date and not actual performance.

I have no problem with Shanahan moving away from JC. Just like I would have had no problem if Shanahan cut CP (my favorite player over the last 7 years). This is his team and I am willing for him to rebuild it how he sees fit. But that assumed that he was going to rebuild with youth. There is no excuse for giving up draft picks, to a division rival no less, for an over the hill QB. Not when other areas of the team are in shambles thanks to Vinny, Danny AND Gibbsy (people love to leave the last one off the list of people to blame for the lack of talent on this team as if the stream of young talent stopped being acquired in 2008). Sorry you don't give up two picks to "forget" JC.

I think it's clear Shanahan is simply admitting he made a mistake by finally benching McNabb and hopefully this marks the beginning of a true, youth centric rebuild and we finally see a team that is being built for a long term run at being competitive instead of the short term quick fixes we've seen for a decade.

[Springfield]

Let me preface this by saying that I believe the "Redskins rebuilding project" will take at least two and more likely three seasons. Let me also say that I respect tr1 as a poster and I think he is a great fan and somebody who I could talk to relevantly about our team.

So here it goes...

Well, there are two sides to every story, isn't there?

Sure.

Shanny is about to fire McNabb. Is anyone really shocked? He's led the team to an awful record. He's been as incompetent as JC...missing open receivers...oh, and missing 'check-down' guys. He's as bad as he was in Philly, but doesn't have Westbrook to bail him out. And, the natives in ES are absolutely...well...ambiguous. Half are saying we should have realized he was a turd and never spent the draft picks...and the other half are saying we've abandoned the guy.

Yes, Shanny is about to fire McNabb... or so it appears. He brought McNabb in here. He couldn't utilize him properly. Rather, his son Kyle couldn't utilize him properly. Say what you will about his performance. He was here because Mike Shanahan wanted him here.

Well, this team has needed a wake up call for a long time.

Yep, wasn't last season enough?

Shanny is entitled to hiring 'his' guys. It happens in America every day. A new boss comes in, and he puts 'his' people in place. Sometimes it happens in a month....sometimes six months...but usually, the **** hits the fan at the end of the first year. So, guess what? Shanny is moving the team into his direction.

Most of us were under the impression that McNabb was the "new direction" that Shanahan was moving the team into.

Oh sure, he may fail. It happens a lot. But, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year? Jimmy Johnson and Joe Gibbs would likely have been fired after their first year...except that reasonable men gave them enough time to prove themselves....yeah, I'm even giving Jerruh props for letting a guy have more than ONE year to prove himself.

So you'll give Shanahan more than a year, but you won't give McNabb? Even Campbell had more than one year.

Hey, if we attended every practice and watched all the film, I'm sure we'd probably come to the same conclusion as Shanny has: this team pretty much sucks...and qb is a problem.

But we didn't... and we can't... if you say so.

Perhaps the Eagles were right...McNabb was done. Why then, you ask, would we spend a #2 for this guy? Well, for Shanny, the answer was easy. Here's a guy with a good history who will INSTANTLY make the entire organization forget about one Jason Campbell. Imagine the crap Shanny would have endured by keeping JC...and having this same record.

Perhaps they were. Perhaps the Redskins had a better option at QB than they had over the last 10 seasons. Basically what you are saying is that Shanahan wasted two draft picks to make the Redskins faithful "forget" about a bad QB who was under season for only two seasons.

Shanny put up with McNabb until we were out of the playoff picture. Now, it's time to plan for the future. To see which guys want to stay and play, or ***** and moan.

And the future includes a journeyman, back up QB? We will waste even more draft picks on a QB? That is what you are saying?

Frankly, this is as refreshing as the time Shotty was here. He came in and stopped the festering...it took half a season, but by the time it was over, he'd identified some guys who were willing to play. Unfortunately, Dan pulled the trigger on him.

Aside for the fact that Shottenhimer looked better at the END of the first season than he did at the BEGINNING. Plus, you have no idea that Snyder won't grow tired of Shanahan after this season anyhow. We all know our Snyder. He's the ultimate tool.

I'm tired of having an organization run by the players. It doesn't work...players' coaches don't work.

Agreed.

I like Shanny's style. I hope Dan does, too.

Aside from all that I've said above, I like his style as well.

So, suck it up fellas. If we're going to be competitive, some mistakes will be made...but in the long run, we'll gain respect and attract better players.

Vinny crapped on this organization....it's going to take more than one year to clean up the mess.

I can only hope you're right.

I'm sucking it up. Honestly speaking though, in Shanahan I do NOT trust. In Allen I do NOT trust. In SNYDER I DO NOT TRUST. I fully expect this team to be at the bottom of the NFC East until my children have kids. That is the kind of expectations that I have. I love this team but I think it will take a long time to come out of this "slump". We need a change of culture. A change of culture we have not experienced yet.

[brdawk20]

I can't believe that Shanny didn't know what he was getting. If he is a great coach, he saw McNabb's body of work the past ten years in Philly. He must have thought that McNabb could do the job.

Here is what I don't understand. An Eagle's coach is one of my neighbors. Asking him how and why McNabb has been successful despite his flaws, he has three things to say:

1. Philly's O-line has generally been good. When McNabb made a bad throw on 1st or 2nd down, he had confidence that on 3rd down his O-line would give him a chance to make a play. Given enough protection, a guy who will throw the ball 40-50 times will make good throws along with the bad ones. His key was to keep throwing until those good throws came, not unlike a running back who keeps getting the ball, knowing that he can break one at any time. He could do that because he has the time to make those plays. On your team, he can't do that. I've seen a fair number of Skins games. There were times when he takes the snap and is already running for his life during his dropback. Your line is as secure as the Mexican-Californian border.

2. He had a great safety valve. This is my neighbor's quote "It's easy not to panic when you had a guy like Brian Westbrook standing ten to fifteen yards away." The Skins have no one even close to what Westy could do. I don't have to tell you what Westbrook brought to the Eagles, as I'm certain you already know.

3. He knew the system. Coach said that you can't underestimate the value of a stable coaching staff and ownership. On top of that, the coaches brought in by Reid were/are top notch guys who are all on the same page. When was the last time the Skins had that? Plus, you can't deny that Reid knows the QB position as well as anyone in the league.

I have to believe that Shanny knew all of this.

He made an interesting point. When Reeves was coaching Atlanta, Vick was raw, but the edges were starting to be roughed out. When Reeves left, Vick never got better, and even regressed. If McNabb had gone to Atlanta, even with McNabb's better work ethic, he never would have been considered anything better than an average quarterback because of the coaching situation there.

[Chump Bailey]

McNabb get's on my nerves I'll admit. He actually reminds me of Bobby Bonilla. Whenever he strike out or made a dumb play; he would just give this annoying grin. Whatever. The question is who the heck is going to be the QB for the Redskins next season? Mike and Kyle think they can win with Rex? Maybe they just roll with Rex for a season and stock up elsewhere we need it. We don't have the top pick obviously and no QB looks like Bradford coming out or anything close to him. We don't have draft picks to move regardless IMO. Are we going after Kolb and WAY overpay for him like any other team interested? Philly's going to lock up Vick.

[tr1]

Also, I don't understand how the OP can make the statement "but, how is it possible to judge a guy after one year?" after having already basically condemning another in less than a year. That's kind of a contradiction. Isn't it?

.

McNabb is a guy at the end of his career. For those who have watched him over time, he may not have had much of a running game for most of it, but he had Westbrook...a guy who could take a check-down and make 24 yards....over and over and over again. McNabb did about as well in Philly's scheme as anyone could, but Philly fans had problems with him because of his inconsistency and repeated penchant to go into huge doldrums during the middle of games...the same as he's demonstrated here in one year.

This isn't giving up on McNabb in 'one year'. There are over a dozen years of tape on the guy, and his unwillingness to learn the new system or understand it, makes him a liability going forward.

He's not a rookie. More should be expected of him. And, his progression has slowed or not improved significantly to warrant another examination of his role here.

I think everyone is disappointed at his play...especially 13 weeks in.

---------- Post added December-18th-2010 at 08:46 AM ----------

McNabb get's on my nerves I'll admit. He actually reminds me of Bobby Bonilla. Whenever he strike out or made a dumb play; he would just give this annoying grin. Whatever. The question is who the heck is going to be the QB for the Redskins next season? Mike and Kyle think they can win with Rex? Maybe they just roll with Rex for a season and stock up elsewhere we need it. We don't have the top pick obviously and no QB looks like Bradford coming out or anything close to him. We don't have draft picks to move regardless IMO. Are we going after Kolb and WAY overpay for him like any other team interested? Philly's going to lock up Vick.

Hey, I'm not a Grossman kind-of-guy...but, he did look awfully good during pre-season (which isn't saying much.) He has awful presence in the pocket, and behind this line, that might get him killed, but if he's burning it up in practice, let's give him a look. We're out of playoff contention, our defense is a mess and we still don't have a running game...I don't expect much.

I mentioned in another thread something we all overlooked....that Philly game was a turning point for Shanny. I think he realized then that no matter how much tinkering he did here, he'd end up with the same inconsistent result...leading to a failed tenure.

I suspect he reasoned that given the age and amount of holes and inconsistent effort, it was time to go in a new direction. BUT, he had to wait until we were eliminated from any chance of a playoff run.

That happened last week.