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Andrew Luck theory: After the bye, did Shanahan tank the Redskins season on purpose? Was there hidden purpose in the McNabb extension?

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ATLredskin

ATLredskin

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At a current 4-8, there are six teams ahead of them in the draft. There's one tied and who knows if they win more games. Even if they wanted to make that move, they're in no position to make it with Luck still on the board.

They are going to make a mistake and draft Locker since Luck will be off the board. They should trade for McNabb and draft Prince.

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KDawg

KDawg

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I see your point though KDawg and it makes sense but I also see Luck as someone you would be lucky to have on the team no pun intended

This thought applies to all teams. Why would anyone pass on the kid in order to trade for draft picks later in this draft/the next couple drafts?

It would be a gigantic error. If you're in the market for a QB, you have to take him. Our only hope would be that Carolina or Buffalo wouldn't want him... But I don't see either of these teams passing on Luck if he fell in their laps.

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:42 PM ----------

They are going to make a mistake and draft Locker since Luck will be off the board. They should trade for McNabb and draft Prince.

What does that have to do with this thread? And why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for their pick when Luck is off the board?

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Dukes and Skins

Dukes and Skins

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This thought applies to all teams. Why would anyone pass on the kid in order to trade for draft picks later in this draft/the next couple drafts?

It would be a gigantic error. If you're in the market for a QB, you have to take him. Our only hope would be that Carolina or Buffalo wouldn't want him... But I don't see either of these teams passing on Luck if he fell in their laps.

Carolina no but Buffalo you never know, they are the ones who passed up on OL help and help in other areas for Spiller. They maybe are the most confusing team to understand when it comes to picks.

I wouldn't pass on him but a team like Cincy could since they still have Palmer and the Brown family could still want him to prove his worth the money they paid him. Carolina wouldn't pass on him though unless somehow someone says I'll take Clausen over him(big mistake IMO) our best bet though is that Detroit finishes #1 and we move up with them so they can get Patrick Peterson and we can get Luck

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Hitman21ST

Hitman21ST

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This thought applies to all teams. Why would anyone pass on the kid in order to trade for draft picks later in this draft/the next couple drafts?

It would be a gigantic error. If you're in the market for a QB, you have to take him. Our only hope would be that Carolina or Buffalo wouldn't want him... But I don't see either of these teams passing on Luck if he fell in their laps.

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:42 PM ----------

What does that have to do with this thread? And why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for their pick when Luck is off the board?

You'll have to forgive ATL, he just got out of his 2008 Redskins time machine. ;)

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KDawg

KDawg

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Carolina no but Buffalo you never know, they are the ones who passed up on OL help and help in other areas for Spiller. They maybe are the most confusing team to understand when it comes to picks.

I wouldn't pass on him but a team like Cincy could since they still have Palmer and the Brown family could still want him to prove his worth the money they paid him. Carolina wouldn't pass on him though unless somehow someone says I'll take Clausen over him(big mistake IMO) our best bet though is that Detroit finishes #1 and we move up with them so they can get Patrick Peterson and we can get Luck

Ehhh...

Buffalo is bad, and I can tell you their fans want Luck. I don't think they pass on him. Buddy Nix isn't a stupid guy. I also don't see Carolina passing on him. Detroit obviously would, but I'm sure they'd use their pick. I also don't see Cincinnati passing up on him.

Truth be told, I'd rather not trade up... I'd rather trade down, gather extra picks. If Newton is available with a second 1st rounder... (or an early second rounder) take a flier on him. No guarantees with him, sure, but if he pans out he'll be a monster. Yes, I'd rather have Andrew Luck. If he's on the board when we draft and we don't take him, we've got some issues (unless, of course, we target someone else and we trade him for a few year's worth of draft picks... I'd almost be okay with that)

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Dukes and Skins

Dukes and Skins

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Ehhh...

Buffalo is bad, and I can tell you their fans want Luck. I don't think they pass on him. Buddy Nix isn't a stupid guy. I also don't see Carolina passing on him. Detroit obviously would, but I'm sure they'd use their pick. I also don't see Cincinnati passing up on him.

Truth be told, I'd rather not trade up... I'd rather trade down, gather extra picks. If Newton is available with a second 1st rounder... (or an early second rounder) take a flier on him. No guarantees with him, sure, but if he pans out he'll be a monster. Yes, I'd rather have Andrew Luck. If he's on the board when we draft and we don't take him, we've got some issues (unless, of course, we target someone else and we trade him for a few year's worth of draft picks... I'd almost be okay with that)

I see Cam Newton being nothing more than a Vince Young type who struggles to learn the pro style offense and relies on his feet to much and ends up being a starter but not a great starter. If we don't move up for Luck then we have to wait for 2012 for QB's then and take either Blaine Gabbert, Matt Barkley or Aaron Murray. They won't be on the level of Luck but they'll be very good QB's for us

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KDawg

KDawg

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I was responding to what you wrote...

But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------

I see Cam Newton being nothing more than a Vince Young type who struggles to learn the pro style offense and relies on his feet to much and ends up being a starter but not a great starter. If we don't move up for Luck then we have to wait for 2012 for QB's then and take either Blaine Gabbert, Matt Barkley or Aaron Murray. They won't be on the level of Luck but they'll be very good QB's for us

We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

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ATLredskin

ATLredskin

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But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------

We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

I forgot...i'm not as swift as my usual self (I got it right? like how Crowder said it)

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Dukes and Skins

Dukes and Skins

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But you missed the point in what I was writing...

I said that noone is going to trade for McNabb to be their franchise quarterback... that's in position to take Andrew Luck. San Francisco isn't in position to take Luck, and San Fran. might even finish with a better record than we do. Why would we trade McNabb to San Fran. for a lower first round draft pick?

---------- Post added December-9th-2010 at 09:54 PM ----------

We disagree on our assessments of Newton. I see a lot of positives for him. And I very well could be wrong, I'm generally not a fan of the scrambling type of QB. But Newton has a chance to be very special. Not that Luck doesn't. As far as QBs go, I'd say Luck is the better prospect... But instead of mortgaging the future for Luck, why not find a way to take a late 1st early 2nd flier on a guy with the potential to be a stud and gather extra picks in the process by trading back to grab Rodney Hudson (if we don't sign guards) or a nose tackle prospect?

Well I see that KDawg but also at the same time say you spend that pick on Newton and he fails in the pro game. You then spend a 2nd rounder on someone who doesn't fit the team and pass up on someone else who could have had a bigger impact on the team. It's tough because I see what you see KDawg I see the talent of someone who's unreal but I also see Newton going in the 1st probably a lot higher than he should because of the hype a lot like VY did. Add into the fact that Newton has attempted around 250 passes in his career while VY attempted over 700 and there is worry about what Newton can do.

Personally if I were running the team which is crazy to think because I'd be a bad GM :ols: I'd do something like this

FA:

Ryan Kalil

Davin Joseph

Draft:

Trade pick 7 for pick 17 and a 2nd

17th pick: Allen Bailey DE Miami

2nd round pick: Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2nd round pick: Rodney Hudson OG Florida State

Those 3 right there solidify our OL and our D with Miller being the dynamic pass rusher opposite Orakpo, Bailey being a great pass rusher from the DE spot and Hudson solidifying our LG position and creating a great tandem with Williams

I would love Luck but if Carolina is dead set then I'd let them take him and I'd go for the QB in 2012 and take Blaine Gabbert

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MrSilverMaC

MrSilverMaC

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Back when Gibbs came back, these threads were interesting, and to me there was hope that our front office was smart enough to try to maneuver in ways that didn't need to make sense to us fans, or even other teams in order to put us in position to do something really good. But time and again theory threads like this have proven to be ridiculous.

We aren't losing in order to achieve some Machiavellian plan to attain some out of reach goal. The Redskins suck. Period. They are a bad team. They are losing because the other teams they are playing are better. And in some cases, as you can tell by the score, a lot better.

We need offensive linemen, defensive linemen, and a solid running back not to mention a respectable receiving threat. That is a lot of holes for one team. And a team with that many needs isn't losing on purpose just to work their way into drafting a qb which is a crap shoot regardless of how you come by the pick to draft him. They are losing because their teams is lacking talent.

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KDawg

KDawg

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Well I see that KDawg but also at the same time say you spend that pick on Newton and he fails in the pro game. You then spend a 2nd rounder on someone who doesn't fit the team and pass up on someone else who could have had a bigger impact on the team. It's tough because I see what you see KDawg I see the talent of someone who's unreal but I also see Newton going in the 1st probably a lot higher than he should because of the hype a lot like VY did. Add into the fact that Newton has attempted around 250 passes in his career while VY attempted over 700 and there is worry about what Newton can do.

Personally if I were running the team which is crazy to think because I'd be a bad GM :ols: I'd do something like this

FA:

Ryan Kalil

Davin Joseph

Draft:

Trade pick 7 for pick 17 and a 2nd

17th pick: Allen Bailey DE Miami

2nd round pick: Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2nd round pick: Rodney Hudson OG Florida State

Those 3 right there solidify our OL and our D with Miller being the dynamic pass rusher opposite Orakpo, Bailey being a great pass rusher from the DE spot and Hudson solidifying our LG position and creating a great tandem with Williams

I would love Luck but if Carolina is dead set then I'd let them take him and I'd go for the QB in 2012 and take Blaine Gabbert

I'd be okay with all of that assuming Newton is off the board for the two second round picks. And I believe you're right in saying he will be. I definitely don't want to sabotage our entire draft for the guy. But if for some reason he's there when we pick in the second round, I say pull the trigger. Otherwise, I have no issue with your plan. Although, we need to find a nose... Bad. :ols:

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Dukes and Skins

Dukes and Skins

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I'd be okay with all of that assuming Newton is off the board for the two second round picks. And I believe you're right in saying he will be. I definitely don't want to sabotage our entire draft for the guy. But if for some reason he's there when we pick in the second round, I say pull the trigger. Otherwise, I have no issue with your plan. Although, we need to find a nose... Bad. :ols:

Say hello to Phil Taylor in the 4th/5th round range. He's a guy who I think is the perfect fit for the D we run. We don't take him then Chris Nield is an option from WVU he's in the mold of Kelly Gregg. I have to credit Steve on that one he brought my attention to him and I've been impressed with what I've heard about him

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mistertim

mistertim

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Its an interesting theory. Maybe a bit out there but you made interesting, rational arguments for it.

As far as trading up goes, I've never really been a fan of it. However, I think if some player comes along that you really think is worth it, you do it. I watched Luck a few times during his first season playing and was impressed and intrigued by him so I made an effort this year to watch him as much as possible and I think he really is THAT good and is worth it. I'm not blind, or a crazy kool-aid drinker, and I really couldn't care less about Stanford one way or the other. But, try as I might, I seriously couldn't find any flaws in the guy's game. Obviously I'm not a pro scout and there are tons of people who know more than I do about the QB position, but I believe I do know enough and have watched enough football over the years to make some passable judgements.

Accuracy? Check

Poise? Check

Vision? Check

Footwork? Check

Throwing mechanics? Check

Ability to read defenses and find his 2nd and 3rd options? Check

Plays in a pro style system with multiple reads? Check

Strong arm? Check

Leadership? Check

Toughness? Check

Size? Check

Ability to feel/avoid pressure? Check

Ability and willingness to scramble/take off with the ball? Check

This is all without a great supporting cast, as well. He has some passable people to throw to, but nobody special; maybe one of them will get drafted in the later rounds. I believe someone posted this in another thread as well, but before he took over as QB Stanford was bad to mediocre as far as protection/sacks allowed. In the two years he has played they have gone from that to being one of the best in the nation. I seriously doubt that is a coincidence. There really are QBs who just make everyone around them look better and Luck is one of those guys. They don't come around very often, but when they do you can see it. If we can pull it off, I would be thrilled. The pain of the draft picks we would lose would hurt, but in the long run I think we could end up with an elite QB to continue to build around.

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Loyal2Washington

Loyal2Washington

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Luck is not in the same league as Bradford. Not that Luck can't be a great QB in his own right but Bradford has Manning (Peyton that is) and Brady type talent. If Shanny is tanking the year then 1. Play the young guys and lose while getting reps and game tape of the young bucks. 2. He should be fired for being so dumb as not to do number 1. Finally he should have pulled the trigger and just gotten Bradford instead of wasting a year of football.

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Dukes and Skins

Dukes and Skins

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Luck is not in the same league as Bradford. Not that Luck can't be a great QB in his own right but Bradford has Manning (Peyton that is) and Brady type talent. If Shanny is tanking the year then 1. Play the young guys and lose while getting reps and game tape of the young bucks. 2. He should be fired for being so dumb as not to do number 1. Finally he should have pulled the trigger and just gotten Bradford instead of wasting a year of football.

Actually reverse that and you are correct. Andrew Luck has Manning type talent unlike Bradford IMO. Luck is one of the most rare prospects to come out in a long time and many scouts are saying he's the best one they've scouted ever and that's saying something. What he's doing with less talent at Stanford is more impressive IMO than what Bradford did at OU with the all american team he had

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