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CNN: House Democrats defy Obama on tax cut bill


Henry

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Well -It's more then just sementics. People seem to think this means everyone on unemployment will have unemployement for ALL of next year - and thats not the case.

But also - While you are not a die hard republican - you have ALWAYS been anti Democrat. Not saying your views are wrong on this (It's a BAD bill that is not good and costs to much) but in THIS case - you can give credit where credit is due. Dems are acting more responsbile then the Republicans. Dems are saying "We don't care how much funding for our pet projects you are throwing in, this costs to much".

I would never consider myself anti democrat nor anti republican. Only pro-sane fiscal policy and liberty first.It just so happens that neither of them embrace those ideals as a whole.

Just like in this one instance, while they are acting on the correct side in terms of not wanting to add to the debt, they are speaking out of both sides of their moyths by proposing many, many other high cost/low value bills that make the debt situation even worse.

i seek consistancy from all perspectives, noit just a gard stance ona pet issue while totally detracting from that stance in another at the same time. They are hypoocrites of the highest order, as is the majority in congress.

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What a mess. Dems need to get it together.

Departing Democrats Complain About Caucus Vote

http://www.rollcall.com/news/-201351-1.html

Rep. John Adler, who lost his New Jersey seat in the midterm elections, was upset over the vote, saying earlier in the day that he believed that departing Members were excluded. “The Democratic Caucus made a very significant policy decision without including the departing Members of the 111th Congress,” he said. “I support the president’s negotiated plan as a way to continue the economic recovery.”

...Rep. Bobby Bright (Ala.) also complained. “Even though we are in our lame-duck phase, we are still Representatives,” he said. “We should have been invited.”

Bright, who also lost in the midterms, disagreed with the resolution to not bring the bill to a vote on the floor. “Bring it up, and let’s have an up-or-down vote. That’s the American way,” he said.

“It appears that it’s an issue for the 111th, not the 112th,” retiring Rep. John Tanner (D-Tenn.) said.

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I don't understand what you are saying. I said "The solution, pain across the board. That is my solution."

My solution is pain for everyone. Everyone means everyone. I said nothing for or against Bush tax cuts. In fact, seems to me pain might be to repeal them and make everyone pay more taxes. Pain means the Government spending less money. Pain means the rich paying more in taxes. Pain means pull out of countries we are spending large chunks of money trying to fix to save money. Pain means everyone suffers to bring fiscal responsibility back. Like, an equal opportunity suffering.

And, I don't understand what pain you are referring too when you say it is coming. Some say that God's wrath is coming to bring order to the world. That would cause a lot of pain.

KPaDdd_PU8E&feature

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lets not forget what happened in '94 after a horrible first two years of Clintons presidency: Republicans took over congress. they then helped to balance the budget (congress controls the money, not the president), passed a number of bills that helped the economy such as welfare reform and the economy turned around. Then what happened was that Clinton took all the credit for the economic turnaround and got himself re-elected.

Fast forward to today: Obama shut the Republicans out for two years to pass all the democrats wet dreams and because he did this Obama and Pelosi got the democrats shalacked in the midterms. Keep in mind that our economy is worse now then it was when he got it. Insert Liberal talking point: We were losing 700,000 jobs a month when he came in to office and now we are creating jobs every month, so how can it be worse? Answer: Our unemployment rate has been over 9.5% for months now (just going UP to 9.8%). Actual unemployment when you factor in those who have stopped looking or are underemployed it's closer to 17%. We have keep extending unemployment benefits for people whom FOR THE MOST PART are complacent in taking free money rather than work for it. Businesses will not invest because of market uncertainty, gold is skyrocketing because of the weakening dollar and our "growth" is about 1.5%. Most economist would say that you need a 5% growth every month to make progress.

To my main point. If Obama does get the tax breaks to pass then IMO the economy will turn around faster then it has been. Now if that does happen Obama will take full credit for "saving" the economy and "millions" of jobs. If it doesn't work he gets to say that he tried to do it the Rebuplicans way and it didn't work. Either way he is sitting pretty for re-election. BUT he has to get them passed congress first

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Please: Tell us your definition of a tax cut/hike.

If my taxes go up next year, its a tax hike. If my taxes go down next year its a tax cut.

---------- Post added December-10th-2010 at 07:05 PM ----------

Bill Clinton wants the House Dems to back off:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2010/12/10/131966525/bill-clinton-i-hope-democrats-back-tax-cut-deal

in my opinion, this is a good bill. And I hope that my fellow Democrats will support it.

So there you go. According Clinton, this is a good bill.

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If my taxes go up next year, its a tax hike. If my taxes go down next year its a tax cut.

I actually think that's fair. I had the same sort of complaints when the government tells me that there was no increase in inflation excluding gas, food, and milk. That's some fine print right there.

Our tax rate is whatever the current norm is... even if technically, it's supposed to be artificially lowered by a "temporary" tax hike we've been experiencing for eight years. I guess the difference for me is the rhetorical gymnastics don't impress me. I think a tax hike isn't always a bad thing... medicine tastes bad. So, if we're asking me, you, or just those in the upper 2% to swallow a tax hike that doesn't make me want to throw all the tea into Boston Harbor. Not all tax hikes are evil and not all tax cuts are good.

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If my taxes go up next year, its a tax hike. If my taxes go down next year its a tax cut.

So, in your opinion, the Republican Party passed a tax hike on you in 2000, passed it again a few times since then, and are attempting to pass one right now?

You must be really ticked at them, I'd bet. Constantly raising your taxes.

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Please: Tell us your definition of a tax cut/hike.
If my taxes go up next year, its a tax hike. If my taxes go down next year its a tax cut.

.

That's close to what I say.

I look at it. Right now Taxes are level A.... if this bill doesn't pass then come january that rate is changing, it goes up, that's a hike...> However if it does passes, current rates stay the same. I don't expect an increase in refund, or decrease in taxes owed, in fact I'll probably still owe more in taxes just due to working a few more hours this year than last.

The bottom line is. We need all of the taxes to stay the same, give some confidence to the marketplace so they can go and do their thing and start hiring and buying capital.

But it won't matter which way the taxes go if they can't get spending under control, we'll still be in a death spiral regardless of which way taxes go.

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So, in your opinion, the Republican Party passed a tax hike on you in 2000, passed it again a few times since then, and are attempting to pass one right now?

If my taxes go up next year, it will be a hike. I don't think either party is suggesting that my taxes should go up next year. Although, if congress does nothing, they will be raising my taxes next year.

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If my taxes go up next year, it will be a hike. I don't think either party is suggesting that my taxes should go up next year. Although, if congress does nothing, they will be raising my taxes next year.

The Republican Party is unanimously demanding that Congress immediately pass legislation which will cause tax rates for every single American to increase in tax year 2013. In fact, they have announced that they will not permit any legislation whatsoever to pass until it's done.

Just letting you know, since I suspect you may have missed that.

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The Republican Party is unanimously demanding that Congress immediately pass legislation which will cause tax rates for every single American to increase in tax year 2013. In fact, they have announced that they will not permit any legislation whatsoever to pass until it's done.

Which is amazing because you can't get the Democratic party to unanimously agree that water is wet.

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The Republican Party is unanimously demanding that Congress immediately pass legislation which will cause tax rates for every single American to increase in tax year 2013. In fact, they have announced that they will not permit any legislation whatsoever to pass until it's done.

Just letting you know, since I suspect you may have missed that.

Can you send me a link?

edit: I haven't seen where Republicans want taxes to go up in 2 years. I read that Republicans wanted the Bush tax cuts to be made permanent but that the 2 year extension was a concession to the Democrats.

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Which is amazing because you can't get the Democratic party to unanimously agree that water is wet.

"I'd say it's more moist than wet."

"Damp, damp fits best."

"I was planning to roll with soggy, perhaps with a bit of humid."

"There you go again, always tacking on needless amendments. We might as well toss any chance of winning Rangel over out the window, he'll never agree to a bit of humid."

"You tried to say that the sky was 'aquamarine, but close to turquoise' just last week! We lost Waxman and Frank to that brilliant example of legislating!"

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It does blow your mind how Republicans seem to have unanimity on every topic. It seems unnatural to me. How can you get a dozens of individuals representing different districts in a land as diverse as the United States of America and them all be of one mind without any dissent.

It's practically twilight zonish.

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Can you send me a link?

edit: I haven't seen where Republicans want taxes to go up in 2 years. I had read that Republicans wanted the Bush tax cuts to be made permanent but that the 2 year extension was a concession to the Democrats.

OK, we're talking about the same bill.

I'd been trying to find the actual bill on Congress' web site. But searching for bills with the words "tax rate" in them got, shall I say, a lot of hits. I'm not certain exactly which of the bils I'm looking at, is the one that's supposedly being voted on.

(And I found some news stories that say that the D's balked yesterday, but House.gov doesn't show any votes on that subject, yesterday.)

---------- Post added December-10th-2010 at 07:56 PM ----------

It does blow your mind how Republicans seem to have unanimity on every topic. It seems unnatural to me. How can you get a dozens of individuals representing different districts in a land as diverse as the United States of America and them all be of one mind without any dissent.

It's practically twilight zonish.

Oh, there's lots of potential explanations.

Fear.

Mind control.

uh . . . .

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OK, we're talking about the same bill.

I'd been trying to find the actual bill on Congress' web site. But searching for bills with the words "tax rate" in them got, shall I say, a lot of hits. I'm not certain exactly which of the bils I'm looking at, is the one that's supposedly being voted on.

I'm pretty sure everything I've read and heard has the republicans pushing for a permanent extension of the Bush tax cuts. The two year extension was a compromise that the Democrats demanded. So tax increases in 2013 would be something the Democrats fought for.

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