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BRAVEONAWARPATH

By BRAVEONAWARPATH
in The Tailgate

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

The problem is the for 2 years they played him as a backup 2 or 3. And he's not going to out shoot Meeks or Oubre. He's a tall pg. hopefully Brooks has fully embraced this by now. The league has. ( Simmons/Giannis)>

 

Sato isn't like Simmons though.  Simmons drops crosscourt dimes from half court and is one of the best at running the break in the league already.  He plays like a true PG even though he's in a big forward's body--like Magic Johnson did.

 

Sato is a ball-handling, shot creating wing.  He can run point in half court sets where the movement is scripted and the ball isn't sticking in his hands.  He doesn't run the break and he's honestly a better option playing off the ball as a filler in transition.  He's more like a poor man's Manu Ginobili.  Obviously not as good a ball handler or shooter, but the style and size are similar.  And the other thing is matching up with PGs defensively is tough for Sato.  Ish Smith went off on him in the third and early fourth because Sato couldn't run with him.  Our switch everything D becomes weaker when you have a mismatch like that forcing switches every time rather than playing Sato alongside a guy who matches up better against smalls and matching Sato up with a wing.

 

Obviously we don't have the personnel to do that because neither he nor Frazier can shoot and you can't have two non-shooters on the perimeter.  So we have to make sacrifices by going positionless and running a ball movement offense to get Sato on the court.  But the best outcome is Sato becoming a good shooter so we can play him on the wing next to Oubre/Meeks.  It's the only thing holding him back from becoming an outstanding player.

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Skin'emAlive

Skin'emAlive

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The game plan for Detroit should always be letting a guy like Ish Smith go off on us. He takes poor  mid range jumpers. Let him do that. Someone on the other team has to score, and Ish would be the guy I would rather have do it than anyone else. 

 

We already tried Sato as the shot creating wing. It was a failure to the point of people thinking about him as trade bait filler. He's a point guard that is tall. He can't share the court with another pg, because it neutered his game. The dude is selfless, and everyone touches the ball. Why would we want another ball handler on the court to take the ball away 50% of the time from a guy who can do all that without turning it over. If Frazier was a sharpshooter, this would make more sense. But he can't shoot from anywhere, and any shot from him is a win for the defense. ( same case for Jennings, Thornton, Sessions, Temple, etc.) Meeks getting open looks is far more dangerous, and Satoransky has been getting the ball in the right spots.  Meeks and Mahinmi have had a huge jump in production with Sato over Frazier based on passing accuracy alone. 

 

If anything, I think he plays like a more deliberate and confident Otto that isn't particularly great at shooting, but has very similar cagey inside game that gets him off balance looks at the hoop. It's herky-jerky. It's kind of slow. But it's always deliberate and full of fakes, step throughs, and give and go step outs when it doesn't work.  He drives with a purpose, and always knows his bailout when there is nothing there. ( something I really hope Beal could improve). It's kind of like if Manu and Otto merged, without the shooting. 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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I don't think the plan on defense is for anyone to go off on us, especially not like Jackson and Smith did last night.  There wasn't any design in how Smith was scoring on us, it was just due to Sato not being able to keep up with him off a high ball screen.  Frazier is a better match up for quick PGs, he actually does a good job staying in front of them.

 

We didn't really try Sato as a wing, he couldn't get on the floor over Oubre and Meeks.  That's understandable: Oubre is a better player and Meeks is a deadeye shooter.  It didn't mean Sato wasn't valuable though.  And you see his value right now in his ability to play each perimeter position.  He's the only guy on our team like that.  He's getting minutes at PG right now, not because Scott decided he's a pure PG, but because that's where we need Sato to be playing with Wall out.  If it had been Beal, Meeks, Otto, or Oubre that had gotten hurt, Sato would be playing alongside Frazier at one of the wing positions instead.

 

And really, the Frazier/Sato pairing would work well if one of them could shoot.  Sato is much more comfortable and successful on the defensive end when he is guarding a wing spot, to the point that he goes from a poor defensive player to a pretty good one.  Sato is a natural transition finisher and a real weapon as a lane filler, and Frazier is a good fast break ballhandler.  They have a lot of complimentary skills.  The issue completely boils down to shooting and thus spacing.  If Sato could shoot, he could play with anyone.

 

Now that's not to say that Frazier should play over Sato.  Sato is a far better scorer and that makes him a much more valuable play if the choice is between the two.  The offensive gain is more valuable than the defensive dropoff.  And you can work around any point guarding issues by having the second unit run a slow-paced, movement heavy half court offense.  That's why I am for playing Sato over Frazier moving forward.

 

However, another workaround would be to start Oubre over Kieff and have Sato play with Frazier and Meeks and then use a rotation of Kieff/Scott/Gortat/Mahinmi at the two big spots.  You could start Mahinmi over Gortat too and between Gortat, Kieff, and Meeks, you'd have a lot of shotmakers beside Sato and Frazier.  Meeks and Gortat being such weak defenders could be an issue their though.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted

I also want to say that, if Mahinmi keeps playing like he has the past couple games, then that could change the outlook of our entire season.  Because it'd mean we have a potential fix to really big problem Gortat causes our defense already on the roster.  This is year 4 of Gortat's 5 year extension, we knew he'd start to decline right around now.  Signing Mahinmi was supposed to protect us from that decline.  Thus having his signing be a bust has killed us.

 

But if he turns it around enough to start him, then we don't have to make a desperation trade to get another C.

 

That doesn't stop me from searching for upgrades though.  I still don't trust Mahinmi and I am 100% behind trying to get DeAndre Jordan or DeMarcus Cousins.  And I still like trading for Nerlens Noel, who I think can also be an immediate upgrade over either Gortat or Mahinmi.

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Skin'emAlive

Skin'emAlive

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I'm going to disagree about Frazier because his limitations really hurt the team. Sure he can run a fast break... But that's not hard and accounts for but a few possessions per game. He should be a spot guy who gets minutes due to injuries and fatigue. Sato is clearly the better option, and that's without his improved shooting. 

 

The team would be better without Gortat in any capacity. His value is declining by the second, and no chance he would be ok playing the utility big off the bench. 

 

Ernie has to decide whether it is best to throw caution to the wind for 2 years with Deandre and our 3 max guys, or if it's better to resign Oubre and kick the tires on a young big Noel/Okafor and pray to the gods they don't severely outplay their contract by the end of the season. 

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Destino

Destino

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I'm not seeing what you're seeing Steve.  Sato looks to be succeeding at point guard specifically, and all you have to do is compare his performance with Beal's who is really struggling with Brooks attempts to shoe horn him into that role.  Beal is by far the better player, but when Sato is runnng point the team's offense is better and Sato individually is better.  When's the last time he turned it over?  Has to be at least three games without a turnover despite playing around 18 minutes and having the ball.  Sato as a wing is where he struggled, maybe it's because he's not a guy that flourishes glued to a spot behind the three line.  That is how Brooks uses his wings not named Beal.  Sato needs to be moving and early in the shot clock to be at his best.  He doesn't seem to run PnR well, but when he runs the offense he pushes the ball and we see a ton of ball movement as a result.  Early shot clock touches to willing passers is a great thing.  

 

Also im not seeing him struggling to guard opposing point guards.  Yes, they get a drive on him a few times but that's because Sato is usually trying to deny them space to dribble or create.  I like that approach against back up point guards.  Force them to beat you instead of letting them sit back and wait for a shooter to come around a screen.  

 

On the subject of screens, we still aren't running nearly enough off ball action to get guys free.  Last night was kind of strange to watch, got all this ball movement without a lot of players actually moving without the ball.  It doesn't normally work that way.  It was like they would take turns cutting or sprinting around.  Brooks needs to continue to embrace ball movement and move us closer to a motion offense (I can dream can't I?)

 

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Destino

Destino

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13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'd feel a lot more confident about this game if Wall were back.  Something dumb is going to happen like Joe Ingles going off on us for 30.

The random guy going off happens with Wall, that's just a Wizards thing, but you're right about feeling better with him in the lineup.   

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Gobert vs Gortat is roughly akin to my cat vs a hamster.  It's entertaining but ultimately tragic.

 

Also, Brad is well on his way to having the worst shooting season of any Max player in NBA history.

Exactly what I was thiking before I came I hear, like a cat pawing at a mouse it doesn't feel like killing yet.

 

I don't know about Beal, he was averaging well over 20ppg before wall got hurt.  I hate when he slumps like this but feel like I've seen this before.

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