ES Soccer Thread

[Elessar78]

I put Zidane up there with Maradona. I never saw Pele other than highlights so I'm just going off of reputation. 

[ixcuincle]

what the **** USA 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I put Zidane up there with Maradona. I never saw Pele other than highlights so I'm just going off of reputation. 

 

Certainly up there as one of the GOAT European players, but not on Maradona's level. 

 

For as much as an ass as he is, he was a special, special talent that almost single handedly took Napoli and Argentina to glory. 

 

Hail. 

[DC9]

there was context with out of place comment. It was about his size and style of play. Its not typical for England and what premiership fans expect. He is a legit flair player.

 

yeah, Neymar and Di Maria are two completely different "style of players" as you said.

Di Maria was wildly inconsistent in La Liga.

And Neymar is better than Di Maria technically. He would wreck the premiership.

 

why do Premiership fans just rely on "intangibles" as if it means something?

No, Neymar would come into the premiership and dominate after an adjustment period.

In 2015, a great player shines in any league. There are no more "La Liga" "Premiership" "Serie A" world class talents anymore. It just doesnt exist because of the best players battle in Champions League every season.

 

Well, I guess that kind of gets to the nuts and bolts of why you think Ozil is so good.  Cazorla is far and away the best creator for Arsenal.  Not even close, not even a discussion. 

 

The difference in "intangibles" is a leader will take ownership if he needs to, he'll get up into the attack if he needs to, fall back and play defense if he needs to, organize when he needs to.

 

Neymar does none of this.  In the past three or four Arsenal matches alone Ozil has passed up open lanes and open shots for the late pass or cross when he clearly has the better angle of attack on the goal.  I think Brave said it best when he said "Ozil wasn't a killer".  Might've been us talking on twittter though.  Good player, not a killer.  Won't take the initiative and isn't "that guy" that comes to mind when you need someone to step up.  For me that is Santi and Alexis with Arsenal.

what the **** USA 

 

Yeah that Archuleta kid or whatever the last sub Jurgen made was the victim on both of those late goals.  Poor marking on the 2nd goal and poor passing and positioning for the 3rd goal.  Bendtner was excellent last night.

 

And the Nick Rimando mystery continues to be a head scratch-er.  Dude is older than Howard and shorter than an 8th grader.  Play Johnson or Hamid.  It's ridiculous at this point.

 

But the plus is that was Denmark's "A" team and Jurgen is expirimenting still.  However, this side is so lazy off the ball... that needs to change immediately.

[Elessar78]

USA got TGSTELed last night.

[ixcuincle]

Adam Archuleta plays soccer for usa now? Lol

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Adam Archuleta plays soccer for usa now? Lol

 

Would explain the lack of work rate. 

 

Hail. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[RawBBQSauce]

US "soccer" makes me queasy.

[JoeWolf990]

Well, I guess that kind of gets to the nuts and bolts of why you think Ozil is so good.  Cazorla is far and away the best creator for Arsenal.  Not even close, not even a discussion.

do yo have the numbers to back this or are you just making an assertion based on what you "see" because the stats do not support this.

Ozil is one of the best creators in the entire premiership, just based on statistics.

And thats not including the chances he sees and creates off the ball.

English football media types, and by proxy the fans who lap up everything, just dont understand what Ozil does. Its really that simple.

Great article on Ozil in yesterday's Telegraph. The guy is a flat out genius.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/11494432/Mesut-Ozils-critics-are-ignoring-the-low-key-genius-of-Arsenals-crucial-player.html

 

The difference in "intangibles" is a leader will take ownership if he needs to, he'll get up into the attack if he needs to, fall back and play defense if he needs to, organize when he needs to.

yeah, great players already do this but you made your mind up.

 

Neymar does none of this.

hence why Brazil went to pieces after he got that back injury in teh World Cup?

Its all opinions, but your opinions are not correct on this topic.

And why would Neymar do what you are asking when Messi is on the team and is the "Man."

Suarez is the same way. He sits back and lets Messi cook. He doesnt play way he did at Liverpool because Messi is on the pitch. Its not like either of them are hiding like Bale does at Madrid.

 

In the past three or four Arsenal matches alone Ozil has passed up open lanes and open shots for the late pass or cross when he clearly has the better angle of attack on the goal.  I think Brave said it best when he said "Ozil wasn't a killer".  Might've been us talking on twittter though.  Good player, not a killer.  Won't take the initiative and isn't "that guy" that comes to mind when you need someone to step up.  For me that is Santi and Alexis with Arsenal.

did you watch the Monaco match when Ozil demanded the ball and kept finding teammates and created or set the table up for chances, particularly the end? Like I said, your mind has already been made up and you have ignored everything you watched just because the narrative is in your head.

Oh yeah, Alexis has been well below par since January and has at times been detrimental to how we play. Like I said, your mind has already been made.

Santi has been great at it, but Ozil is on another plane that even Santi falls back and lets him cook.

Edited March 26, 2015 by JoeWolf990

[JoeWolf990]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3011776/Are-Manchester-United-Liverpool-Arsenal-Chelsea-biggest-club-Sportsmail-s-study-finally-settles-football-s-great-debate.html

[jobaga]

^^you go realize that Anfield is much smaller than Emirates Stadium, don't you?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

LMAO @ the 'global fanbase' numbers. 

 

Then I saw the rag it came from, but still .....

 

LMFAO!

 

Hail. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Joe I love Ozil and he's certainly underrated but there are certainly points where he makes head scratching decisions when games are close.

I agree he's been our best creator since he's been back (thats another reason they looked **** against Newcastle) but he definitely has his flaws.

[JoeWolf990]

^^you go realize that Anfield is much smaller than Emirates Stadium, don't you?

Highbury was a smaller (seated) stadium than Anfield, where Arsenal played for 93 years.

 

Joe I love Ozil and he's certainly underrated but there are certainly points where he makes head scratching decisions when games are close.

I agree he's been our best creator since he's been back (thats another reason they looked **** against Newcastle) but he definitely has his flaws.

the points only stand out because we are fans who follow the ball. (and tbf, he should shoot more)

but the guy is a beast of a footballer. He is only underrated in England because English pundits are idiots for the most part.

Edited March 26, 2015 by JoeWolf990

[DC9]

Santi has been great at it, but Ozil is on another plane that even Santi falls back and lets him cook.

 

I believe that you believe everything you are telling me.  I just don't, man.  It's nothing personal.

 

Dude is an asset but that's about it.  He won't be difficult to replace.

[jobaga]

Highbury was a smaller (seated) stadium than Anfield, where Arsenal played for 93 years.

the points only stand out because we are fans who follow the ball. (and tbf, he should shoot more)

but the guy is a beast of a footballer. He is only underrated in England because English pundits are idiots for the most part.

Did they rank these clubs from their inception or are they looking at a specific time frame?

I actually agree with you about bias against foreign players in the BPL. Suarez was criminally underrated in England. You can same the same about Hazard. I think Ozil is great. He will never be considered a World Class player until he adds goals to his game.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I believe that you believe everything you are telling me.  I just don't, man.  It's nothing personal.

 

Dude is an asset but that's about it.  He won't be difficult to replace.

 

How is that so hard to grasp?

 

He's not being underrated because the English media and pundits are 'idiots' as has been claimed. 

 

He's being judged, rightly or wrongly, on a ridiculously over priced fee Arsenal stumped up in the first place. 

 

If you come with a club record transfer fee that obliterated the previous high, and one the makes you the most expensive Countryman in your home Nations history; you darn well better elevate your team to the heights they paid the money for. You could argue they won the FA Cup, but the league and European form has been little different. 

 

1 goal in 13 Champions League games and 8 in 40 PL doesn't cut it for a £ 42.5 million player. With a WHOPPING 9 assists in the league last year and 5 this. 

 

Ozil is a talented but inconsistent player who is nothing like his price tag and certainly not irreplaceable. 

 

*Cue Joe to dispute this and tell us we know nothing of what we're watching. 

 

Hail. 

 

*Edit* And FTR, Raheem Sterling is FAR from a 'great' player. 

 

He's had 3 WAY too inconsistent years to be classed as anything like that. Oh, he will be when Liverpool try fleece some club this summer of something approaching the Bale fee. But all he is, is potential. On his day, very, very good potential. But the bad days are just as common as the good ones. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[DC9]

*Cue Joe to dispute this and tell us we know nothing of what we're watching. 

 

Hail. 

 

I don't want to be hard on him.  I just don't know how he can watch that team and think Ozil is anything better than the 4th or 5th best player (at best) on the 11.

[Elessar78]

It may have obliterated the previous Arsenal transfer record, but it wasn't like it was out of whack with the rest of the market. 

 

The nerds get caught up in the stats, overall the team is playing the best it has in a long long time. Ozil has created a ton of chances, that our forwards haven't put away—is that on him too? Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3 in each of the past two seasons and that puts him near the top in assists. 

I don't want to be hard on him.  I just don't know how he can watch that team and think Ozil is anything better than the 4th or 5th best player (at best) on the 11.

That's a good thing then.

[DC9]

That's a good thing then.

 

It's definitely a sign of a good player.

 

But we're talking about Marodonna and Zidane in the same breath?

 

And the Ballon d'or goes to the 4th or 5th best player on a team?

 

Only in North London....

Oh....

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

 I never knew the wizard of the dribble, Sir Stanley Matthews, had been crowned the best player in the World. 

 

I'd NEVER of gotten the 6th if you'd asked me the 6 players from English clubs to win the honour.

 

Thanks bro'.

 

Hail.  

Edited March 26, 2015 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[Morrison J]

Those global fanbase numbers! 

 

Leeds just nudging one place ahead of Wigan..

 

Shocking survey

[LondonSkins77]

I was always told Shaun 'the goat' Goater was a "legend" at Man City... That was the good old days when they played at Maine Road and flirted between old second & third divison before the Arab money took em to a whole new dimension. That's what I thought when I saw that Ballon D'or winners. Just made to think back to times past!

[JoeWolf990]

I believe that you believe everything you are telling me.  I just don't, man.  It's nothing personal.

 

Dude is an asset but that's about it.  He won't be difficult to replace.

"Özil is unique," said Jose Mourinho, "there is no copy of him – not even a bad one. He is the best number 10 in the world."

Spanish newspaper AS reported Ronaldo as telling his Portugal team-mates: “The sale of Ozil is very bad news for me.

“He was the player who best knew my moves in front of goal... I'm angry about Özil leaving.”

And lets not forget Joachim Low builds Germany around him.

Like I said, idiotic English pundits influencing English football viewers. The man is a main man type, and much more than an asset.

 

Did they rank these clubs from their inception or are they looking at a specific time frame?

beginning of clubs existence.

 

I actually agree with you about bias against foreign players in the BPL. Suarez was criminally underrated in England. You can same the same about Hazard. I think Ozil is great. He will never be considered a World Class player until he adds goals to his game.

Ozil is already considered a World Class player. This is why these views are mind boggling off. EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD sees Ozil as the best playmaker in the world. Its only in England because they look at "intangibles" like body language and him not running "hard," and other nonsense.

Probably why their national team is a C level national side. Need more grit and running and none of that creativity an off the ball running.

Edited March 26, 2015 by JoeWolf990

[JoeWolf990]

He's not being underrated because the English media and pundits are 'idiots' as has been claimed.

English pundits are idiots and has favorites.

man like Craig Burley telling it like it is with regards to the English media:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us8X5XBM8Eo

 

He's being judged, rightly or wrongly, on a ridiculously over priced fee Arsenal stumped up in the first place. 

 

If you come with a club record transfer fee that obliterated the previous high, and one the makes you the most expensive Countryman in your home Nations history; you darn well better elevate your team to the heights they paid the money for. You could argue they won the FA Cup, but the league and European form has been little different.

its not about the damn fee, lol.

Its about your media not appreciation the type of player he is. Its a big reason why England falls further behind.

On every single metric, Arsenal are a much better team with him in it playing centrally.

 

1 goal in 13 Champions League games and 8 in 40 PL doesn't cut it for a £ 42.5 million player. With a WHOPPING 9 assists in the league last year and 5 this.

I agree he needs to score goals. Thats it tho, he does everything else well.

9 assists last year was tied for 5th in the league last year, despite missing 12 games in the league. He also created 81 chances which was tied for 6th as well.

LOL at "doesn't cut it." Like I said before, idiotic English pundits influencing a nation.

 

Ozil is a talented but inconsistent player who is nothing like his price tag and certainly not irreplaceable. 

 

*Cue Joe to dispute this and tell us we know nothing of what we're watching.

because you guys dont.

If only he didnt "let it slip," or something for the cameras. Thats what the media loves in England, those who ham it up for the cameras.

 

*Edit* And FTR, Raheem Sterling is FAR from a 'great' player.

no one called him a great player, I said he "kills it" in the premiership despite being a more continental player and that he is 19. He is a beast and I hope his career gets saved by leaving Rogers and Liverpool.