Hey Dan Snyder, thanks for setting the Redskins back in the right direction!!! HTTR!

[Section123OnSundays]

Allen 's resume is strong on salary cap and negotiations, weak on personnel.

Shanahan's two Super Bowls showed he could coach a team built by others, but his ten years in charge yielded one playoff win.

Thanks, Dan. After years of teams that won 47% of their games, a higher level mediocrity is just what this franchise needed.

Dude, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Times are changing and headed in the right direction. People like you need to roll out :point2sky

[Oldfan]

When it's on topic, you have every right. We've done this dance before and I've never told you to not post your opinion, so don't fabricate something.

I didn't fabricate anything. I quoted you. This is what you said: OF, you don't have to bring your skepticism into every thread that mentions Allen and/or Shanahan. It's well-documented that you don't believe this team will succeed.

So, you agree. We don't "know" what will happen from this point forward.

Scientists aren't certain about anything. They deal in probabilities. That's what I'm doing based on the extensive resumes of Bruce and Mike.

If Allen and Shanahan fail, then I'll want Snyder to again look to improve the front office. I'm happy that he's apparently learned that he should hire football men to make the football decisions. If you can't see that as a major step forward, I'm sorry about that. But, as the thread states, we're moving forward (even if not as much as you'd like) instead of regressing.

The OP thanks Dan for putting us on the right track. Hiring two men who have proven themselves mediocre in running a football team over a ten-year span isn't the right track. That's my opinion -- one which you can expect to see again when the topic arises.

[Larry Brown #43]

OldFan, is your time coming to an end because you seem rather bitter?!

I think this is pretty inappropriate and disrespectful. I often disagree with Oldfan, but I respect his opinions because he clearly puts thought into his posts. This would be a boring place if we all agreed all the time. I think your post crosses the line of good taste.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I didn't fabricate anything. I quoted you. This is what you said: OF, you don't have to bring your skepticism into every thread that mentions Allen and/or Shanahan. It's well-documented that you don't believe this team will succeed.

Right. In the context of this thread, I don't believe our guesses on how Allen/Shanahan will do are relevant. That's why I still haven't contributed mine. I believe setting up a stronger front office is the main point of this thread, not hearing that Shanahan has only won 57% of his games as a coach.

Scientists aren't certain about anything. They deal in probabilities. That's what I'm doing based on the extensive resumes of Bruce and Mike.

We're not scientists, we're football fans. Batman was a scientist.

The OP thanks Dan for putting us on the right track. Hiring two men who have proven themselves mediocre in running a football team over a ten-year span isn't the right track. That's my opinion -- one which you can expect to see again when the topic arises.

You're mincing words, which is exactly what I'd expect you to do at this point as you're painted into a corner. We can disagree again.

I believe you are either moving forward or backward...it's pretty obvious that we're moving forward compared to the past couple years when we've regressed. To me, that translates to being set "back in the right direction" as the thread states. To you, because you don't see us following that path all the way to a dynasty, you can't see that we're still pointing the correct direction.

As always...agree to disagree. I hope that one day we can all agree that we're happy with this team (after a SB win)!

[Oldfan]

I'm just wondering if there's a happy medium for you between what Shanahan's post-Elway Broncos did and what Belicheck's Patriots have done.

I want the team to strive to be the best in the NFL and to maintain that position indefinitely. That should be the goal of every team in the league.

I don't see how you compromise on that.

If we were making smart moves toward that goal, I'd be ticked pink. I wouldn't care what record we post this season.

[KingGibbs]

Kind of hard for me to pat Danny on the head when he is the main reason the 'skins have been below mediocre during his tenure as an owner. There's such a long list of cluster **** moves he's made that it would take all day to list them.

I compare him to that relative that is a drug addict. You want to trust them, but in the back of your mind you can't stop thinking about how many times you've been burned when you think they've turned the corner.

IMO. Snyder still has to earn our trust by continuing to do what he is doing now and that's letting the football people take care of the football aspect of this team. He's on his way to being the owner most of us envisioned, but to forgive him for ten years of frustration because he hasn't hit the crack pipe for a few months isn't a good idea until his self intervention leads him to years of being sober. If you get my drift.

[Oldfan]

Right. In the context of this thread, I don't believe our guesses on how Allen/Shanahan will do are relevant. That's why I still haven't contributed mine. I believe setting up a stronger front office is the main point of this thread, not hearing that Shanahan has only won 57% of his games as a coach.

You think progress has been made because Mike and Bruce will likely win more games than the previous administration. That's what you consider to be the "right direction." I see no progress because no movement has been made in the right direction.

If you want to disagree, fine, but my posts are on topic.

We're not scientists, we're football fans. Batman was a scientist.

My point, which you missed, is that predictions are always based on probability , not certainty.

You're mincing words, which is exactly what I'd expect you to do at this point as you're painted into a corner.

Your opinion on our debate is not relevant debate.

I believe you are either moving forward or backward...

Or, you could be moving in the wrong direction. Which, I think is the case here (unless high-grade mediocrity appeals to you).

As always...agree to disagree. I hope that one day we can all agree that we're happy with this team (after a SB win)!

I'd love to be proven wrong.

[ThomasRoane]

I'll say thanks; for now. He said he learned his lesson after Gibbs II and screwed up royally! So I'll reserve judgetment for a few years down the road!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You think progress has been made because Mike and Bruce will likely win more games than the previous administration. That's what you consider to be the "right direction." I see no progress because no movement has been made in the right direction....I'd love to be proven wrong.

OF, I removed some of your post so as to not take up too much space. I think I need to apologize. We seem to go around and around every couple of weeks with the same bullet points.

You want/believe what you want and I want/believe what I want. I believe that, for the most part, the NFL is a bunch of one-year seasons strung together. Granted, teams develop a core, but due to circumstances/salary cap/etc. there are different key players every year.

The 2001-2004 NE Patriots had different veteran defenders each year, different RBs each year, new OL some years, different WRs each year, etc. What remained the same was the coaching and the QB. They were able to win Super Bowls with an unspectacular/defensive team (2001), a dominant offensive team (2003), and pretty well-balanced team (2004). In the end, I believe they had to have an eye toward the future, but they approached every single season attempting to win it all that season, knowing they could re-arrange things as necessary the following season.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that we're always going to fundamentally disagree on team-building. You have strong opinions and you back them up very well. I need to stop engaging in these debates as they usually end up side-tracking the actual topic (which I'll take the blame for).

Here's to the Skins making everyone happy very soon!

[Oldfan]

OF, I removed some of your post so as to not take up too much space. I think I need to apologize. We seem to go around and around every couple of weeks with the same bullet points.

No need to apologize. I do agree that we have more than exhausted the points each of of had to make.

I regard you as an intelligent poster and a worthy adversary in debate (even though you're so often wrong:D).

The 2001-2004 NE Patriots had different veteran defenders each year, different RBs each year, new OL some years, different WRs each year, etc. What remained the same was the coaching and the QB.

Bob Kraft lucked out with Belichick. Giving a coach full charge of a football team has a long history of failure. Coaches usually put their own survival interests ahead of anything else which leads to the win-now plans.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I regard you as an intelligent poster and a worthy adversary in debate (even though you're so often wrong:D).

Thanks, that means a lot!

[mossomo]

I'm happy that he's apparently learned that he should hire football men to make the football decisions

Exactly. Has nothing to do with win or lose, but rather putting a successful business model back into place. Finally. Going forward, we can't blame the organization. It's gonna be either the coaching or the talent (the lack of).

Cheers brothers! Redskins football is back.

[Oldfan]

Exactly. Has nothing to do with win or lose, but rather putting a successful business model back into place. Finally. Going forward, we can't blame the organization. It's gonna be either the coaching or the talent (the lack of).

I'm not following your logic. A "successful business model" is one that is likely to achieve its objectives. How can it be a successful model in the NFL if its objectives don't include winning football games?

This business model, based on Bruce and Mike's history, is likely to fare better than the previous administration but fall well short of becoming the number one NFL franchise (like the Patriots have been) -- which should be the objective of all NFL teams , in my opinion.

[mossomo]

I'm not following your logic. A "successful business model" is one that is likely to achieve its objectives

Objectives like a well run organization? That's what I see and am applauding.

[Oldfan]

Objectives like a well run organization? That's what I see and am applauding.

You said,"It has nothing to do with win or lose." So, let's test your statement. Would you still maintain that we now have a "well run organization" if after trading draft picks for McNabb, the team goes 0-16 this season? I doubt that you would.

The Denver Broncos had virtually the same business model we now have for ten years (1999-2008). They won one playoff game in that span. Do you think THAT was a well-run organization? Pat Bowlen didn't think so.

[madden lot]

Allen 's resume is strong on salary cap and negotiations, weak on personnel.

Shanahan's two Super Bowls showed he could coach a team built by others, but his ten years in charge yielded one playoff win.

Thanks, Dan. After years of teams that won 47% of their games, a higher level mediocrity is just what this franchise needed.

I swear this guy hijack every thread he post in. Grunpy old men must be your fav. movie. We kno how you feel, tell me olefaan, when was the last time you had sum fun?

[Oldfan]

I swear this guy hijack every thread he post in. Grunpy old men must be your fav. movie. We kno how you feel, tell me olefaan, when was the last time you had sum fun?

How does one hijack a thread by posting on-topic? Would you like to explain that, Slick?

[Hitman21ST]

I swear this guy hijack every thread he post in. Grunpy old men must be your fav. movie. We kno how you feel, tell me olefaan, when was the last time you had sum fun?

Not hijacks, but definitely gives you a downer feel about things...

[Oldfan]

Not hijacks, but definitely gives you a downer feel about things...

If you have good reasons for your optimism, my posts shouldn't affect you in the least.

[madden lot]

when was the last time you had sum fun?

I'm still waiting.....

[ttr77]

Kind of hard for me to pat Danny on the head when he is the main reason the 'skins have been below mediocre during his tenure as an owner. There's such a long list of cluster **** moves he's made that it would take all day to list them.

I liken him to a landlord that lets his building completely fall apart for years, throws some supports and a fresh coat of paint on it and tells his tenants its all fixed. Those tenants have every right to see if they find any more ****roaches before they agree to sign a new lease.

[Thinking Skins]

Yup

One offseason does not change the past 11 years.

Hell, there were similar offseasons to this (prior to 2008, 2007, 2005 and 2001) yet the owner and his minion Cerrato had created such a poisoned culture the team had no chance

It does appear the culture is changing. However it also changed during Gibbs 2.0.

I'll give it a few years before thanking this owner

I find it hilarious how this board goes bat crazy every time Danny makes a decision, with a bunch of people deeming it as meaning "he's a changed man". I don't like his style of building teams, but since I can't change that, I'll sit and doubt him until either he (somehow) starts to invest in the draft or until his way actually brings us a superbowl.

[Thinking Skins]

If the only thing Dan was fire Vinny..... he was a successful owner

but he also hired Vinny.

[skins2victory]

All think the majority of redskins fans can all say we are happy with the new direction!! I am very excited for the new season!!

[Oldfan]

All think the majority of redskins fans can all say we are happy with the new direction!! I am very excited for the new season!!

Shanahan was the biggest name retread available. That's not a new direction for Dan (Marty, Gibbs).

Marty, Spurrier, Gibbs, trading draft picks for vets, signing hot-shot free agents... the majority of Redskins fans have been happy with all those moves. 89% of this board thought that Jason Taylor was an outstanding move. Some were saying he'd add three wins by himself.